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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re: Chloramine and Campden Tablets ("Craig S. Cottingham")
  Circulation .... ("steve.alexander")
  Bimetal Thermometer (Fred L Johnson)
  Conical Circulation/Campden Tablets/Thermometers ("A.J deLange")
  Thermometer Calibration ("mike gutenkauf")
  HBD Status ("Pat Babcock")
  Music ("Dave Larsen")
  Thermometer calibration (Thomas Rohner)
  re: Bimetal Thermometer Calibration ("jeff_ri")


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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:30:10 -0500
From: "Craig S. Cottingham" <craig.cottingham at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Chloramine and Campden Tablets

On Jul 14, 2008, at 13:54, Dana Edgell <dedg at lle.rochester.edu>  
wrote:

> If I add 1/4 Campden tablet to 5 gal cold tap water does it attack the
> chlorine or oxygen first or does it do both partially?

It should do both simultaneously. The metabisulfite ion will react  
with the first thing it encounters, be it chloramine, oxygen, or  
something else.

> I have been adding Campden tablets to my tap water in the HLT before
> heating. Should I switch to adding it to the heated water which will
> have little oxygen to compete for the campden tablet's effects?

I've never worked with metabite, but I'd think that adding it to  
heated water would be more effective, not only because you'll drive  
off excess oxygen, but also because the reactivity of the metabite  
should go up. Unless, of course, heating a metabite solution is a bad  
idea (for instance, if it breaks down when heated.

- --
Craig S. Cottingham
BJCP Certified judge from Olathe, KS ([621, 251.1deg] Apparent  
Rennerian)
craig.cottingham at gmail.com



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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 01:04:54 -0400
From: "steve.alexander" <-s at roadrunner.com>
Subject: Circulation .... 

AJ says ...

> I have 2 barrel cylindroconicals which I fill to 1.5 bbl and I do notice 
> strong circulation during fermentation. 
Hmm - but is it a central/up circulation due to the greater central 
depth rather than
the random-ish circulation of a carboy ?  In any case - yes circulation 
makes a big
difference.

> As for music during brewing I usually listen to Bach. I got the whole 
> BWV for about $135 which is amazing (less than a buck a disc) and, as a 
> review said "there are few disappointments".
Maybe the Brilliant Classics collection at that price and yow that's a 
bargain.
Would take a bit of "circulation" to just rip the CDs in to a storage 
format and
~100GB to store them!   JSB was an Impressively productive guy (in several
ways).

Classical - I still listen to WCLV ((http://auggie.wclv.com:80/hi.ogg))
often when I'm near a computer (which is always).  I miss the late Karl
Haas' program - he was new to WCLV when I was in college; and that was
quite an education he gave.  There are several other 'feed' formats
((http://www.wclv.com)).

 -S

 


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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:10:31 -0400
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: Bimetal Thermometer

Dave asks about calibrating his bimetal thermometer.

Regarding bimetal thermometers, as far as I know, they are only made  
as a one point calibration, and it sounds like yours are probably  
within specifications when calibrated. Many come with a factory  
calibration without any simple means of calibrating them. That  
doesn't mean that they aren't quite accurate, but you should check  
them, of course.

Regarding a NIST traceable mercury thermometer , you'll pay a high  
price and probably have to go to a scientific supply store, but you  
probably don't need that. There are inexpensive NIST traceable  
electronic thermometers out there that would easily serve the job of  
calibrating your other thermometers.

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:29:37 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Conical Circulation/Campden Tablets/Thermometers

For -S:  It must be at least a foot from the wall of the fermenter to 
the axis. I'm cooling with glycol at about 30F so when the glycol pump 
comes on the walls quickly get cold relative to the beer and the beer 
near the walls is going to cool off sooner than the beer a foot away 
from the walls. It is thus denser and sinks to the bottom causing a 
welling up of warm beer in the center. At least I assume that is what is 
happening. I can't see what's going on inside there and the only way I 
could confirm would be to take temperature measurements at the center 
which I might be willing to try with water but I don't like opening up 
when there is real beer in there. On second thought we know that when 
the pump is running the beer right next to the wall is at very close to 
30F whereas the beer at the core is at the fermentation temperature so 
readings with a thermometer wouldn't tell us much. So the driving 
condition is pretty plain. The question is as to how much circulation 
this set of circumstances causes in a conical of these particular 
dimensions.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

For Dana: The answer is "both partially" but the reaction between 
bisulfite and chlorine/chloramine appears to take place much more 
quickly than the one with oxygen. As my experiment of last week showed 
it took nearly an hour for the oxygen scavenging to complete. With 
chloramine the odor is gone is a few seconds and therein, I believe, 
lies the answer to the question. Don't worry about the oxygen. Use 1 
Campden tablet per 20 gallons and see if the smell of chlorine goes 
away. To be sure get a chlorine/chloramine test kit and check the water 
after treatment. They are inexpensive, easy to use and readily available 
at any pet store that sells fish (or from www. hach.com). When I wrote 
the article for BT on choramine removal many years ago I did lots of 
tests on the ability of bisulfite to remove chloramine and never even 
though that the dissolved O2 in the water might take some of the 
bisulfite. In all cases the chloramine was reduced.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

For Dave: You are seeing that a thermometer has offset and slope errors 
(and higher order errors as well but we hope those are very small) and 
usually only one calibration control i.e. offset. About all you can do 
here is adjust the offset for the most accurate reading in the range of 
interest which I would think would be  mash temperature  (another 
approach is to set for 0 C at freezing, read what the thermometer says 
at boiling, use the difference to calibrate the slope and then use the 
slope value to calculate corrections at all indicated temperatures other 
than freezing. To set the offset at other than a known temperature 
(freezing, boiling, triple point) you need some other sort of reference 
and that's where the glass thermometers come in. They can be had from 
Cole Parmer, Omega Engineering and other similar companies. For precise 
work you can get them which only cover a few degrees. For example I have 
one that covers 95 to 135 C (though I don't know why I have it) and they 
are available in mercury or alcohol, imersion or not,  with or without 
NIST certification. Expect to pay more the fancier/more accurate you go.

A.J.




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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:49:40 -0500
From: "mike gutenkauf" <mikesdak at gmail.com>
Subject: Thermometer Calibration

Dave in Tucson writes about the calibration of thermometers:

<Speaking of which, does anybody know a good place to buy a mercury
calibration thermometer, at a decent price?  The brew shops don't seem
to carry those anymore.  They only carry the alcohol filled ones,
which I've never found to be that accurate.>

If you have a digital fever thermometer, you can calibrate at 100
degrees F.  The cheap ones I have are specified to be accurate from
90-110 degrees F, plus or minus 0.2 degrees F.

Just a thought.

Mike Gutenkauf
Aberdeen, SD


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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:08:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: HBD Status

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Very soon, I will learn whether I am one of those who will lose their
employment in the automotive industry. At present, there remains $1823.54
in the treasury - or just over 9 months of the ISP costs. In the event I
am let go, the HBD will run only for another 6 months as I will be forced
to use $500 to terminate the current contract with our ISP (exp
8/17/2009), and Home Brew Digest, Inc. will be dissolved. This because I
will no longer have the means to fund the shortfall to the end of the
current contract, and, without internet connectivity, the corporation
becomes obviated. Of course, any funds received in the interim will serve
to extend the timeframe in which the HBD will continue to operate.

I will keep you posted on what occurs. All separations will be completed
by 1 August, and, though I believe I have exemplary credentials which
compare most favorably with those of my contemporaries here, no-one knows
what criteria they are using to determine who goes and who stays - and
we're all in the same boat...

- -- 
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan
Chief of HBD Janitorial Services
http://hbd.org
pbabcock at hbd.org




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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:56:13 -0700
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com>
Subject: Music

>
> As for music during brewing I usually listen to Bach. I got the whole
> BWV for about $135 which is amazing (less than a buck a disc) and, as a
> review said "there are few disappointments". Ther is usually some piece
> of equipment running which makes too much noise to hear it very well so
> I often don't bother to put any thing on but when I do it's JSB.
>

I always found classical good for making wine related beverages, like
mead.  I've made mead to Vivaldi, Four Seasons, and have always done
well.  For some reason, blues seem to fit my beer making efforts much
better.  A little John Lee Hooker makes a brew session much smoother.

Dave
Tucson, AZ
http://hunahpu.blogspot.com/


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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:31:16 +0200
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Thermometer calibration

Hi Dave

i use a Greisinger GTH 175/Pt. I don't know if it's available in the 
U.S. Around here, it comes in at around 75$.
The range is from -199.9 to 199.9 Celsius, with a accuracy and 
resolution of 0.1 C +/- 1 digit.
I once tested 2 of the above and a fever thermometer in a water bath at 
around 40 celsius. All three thermometers showed the same temp to the 
last digit.(to a tenth of a degree)
I use it directly for everything around the brewery, not for 
calibration. They both still work after more than 10 years. And they can 
be calibrated.(Offset and gain adjustment, or freezing and boiling for 
example)

Cheers Thomas


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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:55:53 -0400
From: "jeff_ri" <jeff_ri at cox.net>
Subject: re: Bimetal Thermometer Calibration

Hi All,

  In HBD #5369 Dave Larsen asked about finding a mercury calibration 
thermometer.

  I haven't looked, but I would be somewhat surprised if any mercury 
thermometers were still being made.

  Another option you have is using a medical thermometer.  They are fairly 
narrow range and quite accurate.

Jeff McNally
Tiverton, RI
(652.2 miles, 90.0 deg) A.R.
www.southshorebrewclub.org




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