HOMEBREW Digest #5370 Tue 15 July 2008

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  Re: Chloramine and Campden Tablets ("Craig S. Cottingham")
  Circulation .... ("steve.alexander")
  Bimetal Thermometer (Fred L Johnson)
  Conical Circulation/Campden Tablets/Thermometers ("A.J deLange")
  Thermometer Calibration ("mike gutenkauf")
  HBD Status ("Pat Babcock")
  Music ("Dave Larsen")
  Thermometer calibration (Thomas Rohner)
  re: Bimetal Thermometer Calibration ("jeff_ri")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:30:10 -0500 From: "Craig S. Cottingham" <craig.cottingham at gmail.com> Subject: Re: Chloramine and Campden Tablets On Jul 14, 2008, at 13:54, Dana Edgell <dedg at lle.rochester.edu> wrote: > If I add 1/4 Campden tablet to 5 gal cold tap water does it attack the > chlorine or oxygen first or does it do both partially? It should do both simultaneously. The metabisulfite ion will react with the first thing it encounters, be it chloramine, oxygen, or something else. > I have been adding Campden tablets to my tap water in the HLT before > heating. Should I switch to adding it to the heated water which will > have little oxygen to compete for the campden tablet's effects? I've never worked with metabite, but I'd think that adding it to heated water would be more effective, not only because you'll drive off excess oxygen, but also because the reactivity of the metabite should go up. Unless, of course, heating a metabite solution is a bad idea (for instance, if it breaks down when heated. - -- Craig S. Cottingham BJCP Certified judge from Olathe, KS ([621, 251.1deg] Apparent Rennerian) craig.cottingham at gmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 01:04:54 -0400 From: "steve.alexander" <-s at roadrunner.com> Subject: Circulation .... AJ says ... > I have 2 barrel cylindroconicals which I fill to 1.5 bbl and I do notice > strong circulation during fermentation. Hmm - but is it a central/up circulation due to the greater central depth rather than the random-ish circulation of a carboy ? In any case - yes circulation makes a big difference. > As for music during brewing I usually listen to Bach. I got the whole > BWV for about $135 which is amazing (less than a buck a disc) and, as a > review said "there are few disappointments". Maybe the Brilliant Classics collection at that price and yow that's a bargain. Would take a bit of "circulation" to just rip the CDs in to a storage format and ~100GB to store them! JSB was an Impressively productive guy (in several ways). Classical - I still listen to WCLV ((http://auggie.wclv.com:80/hi.ogg)) often when I'm near a computer (which is always). I miss the late Karl Haas' program - he was new to WCLV when I was in college; and that was quite an education he gave. There are several other 'feed' formats ((http://www.wclv.com)). -S Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:10:31 -0400 From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com> Subject: Bimetal Thermometer Dave asks about calibrating his bimetal thermometer. Regarding bimetal thermometers, as far as I know, they are only made as a one point calibration, and it sounds like yours are probably within specifications when calibrated. Many come with a factory calibration without any simple means of calibrating them. That doesn't mean that they aren't quite accurate, but you should check them, of course. Regarding a NIST traceable mercury thermometer , you'll pay a high price and probably have to go to a scientific supply store, but you probably don't need that. There are inexpensive NIST traceable electronic thermometers out there that would easily serve the job of calibrating your other thermometers. Fred L Johnson Apex, North Carolina, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:29:37 -0400 From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net> Subject: Conical Circulation/Campden Tablets/Thermometers For -S: It must be at least a foot from the wall of the fermenter to the axis. I'm cooling with glycol at about 30F so when the glycol pump comes on the walls quickly get cold relative to the beer and the beer near the walls is going to cool off sooner than the beer a foot away from the walls. It is thus denser and sinks to the bottom causing a welling up of warm beer in the center. At least I assume that is what is happening. I can't see what's going on inside there and the only way I could confirm would be to take temperature measurements at the center which I might be willing to try with water but I don't like opening up when there is real beer in there. On second thought we know that when the pump is running the beer right next to the wall is at very close to 30F whereas the beer at the core is at the fermentation temperature so readings with a thermometer wouldn't tell us much. So the driving condition is pretty plain. The question is as to how much circulation this set of circumstances causes in a conical of these particular dimensions. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * For Dana: The answer is "both partially" but the reaction between bisulfite and chlorine/chloramine appears to take place much more quickly than the one with oxygen. As my experiment of last week showed it took nearly an hour for the oxygen scavenging to complete. With chloramine the odor is gone is a few seconds and therein, I believe, lies the answer to the question. Don't worry about the oxygen. Use 1 Campden tablet per 20 gallons and see if the smell of chlorine goes away. To be sure get a chlorine/chloramine test kit and check the water after treatment. They are inexpensive, easy to use and readily available at any pet store that sells fish (or from www. hach.com). When I wrote the article for BT on choramine removal many years ago I did lots of tests on the ability of bisulfite to remove chloramine and never even though that the dissolved O2 in the water might take some of the bisulfite. In all cases the chloramine was reduced. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * For Dave: You are seeing that a thermometer has offset and slope errors (and higher order errors as well but we hope those are very small) and usually only one calibration control i.e. offset. About all you can do here is adjust the offset for the most accurate reading in the range of interest which I would think would be mash temperature (another approach is to set for 0 C at freezing, read what the thermometer says at boiling, use the difference to calibrate the slope and then use the slope value to calculate corrections at all indicated temperatures other than freezing. To set the offset at other than a known temperature (freezing, boiling, triple point) you need some other sort of reference and that's where the glass thermometers come in. They can be had from Cole Parmer, Omega Engineering and other similar companies. For precise work you can get them which only cover a few degrees. For example I have one that covers 95 to 135 C (though I don't know why I have it) and they are available in mercury or alcohol, imersion or not, with or without NIST certification. Expect to pay more the fancier/more accurate you go. A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:49:40 -0500 From: "mike gutenkauf" <mikesdak at gmail.com> Subject: Thermometer Calibration Dave in Tucson writes about the calibration of thermometers: <Speaking of which, does anybody know a good place to buy a mercury calibration thermometer, at a decent price? The brew shops don't seem to carry those anymore. They only carry the alcohol filled ones, which I've never found to be that accurate.> If you have a digital fever thermometer, you can calibrate at 100 degrees F. The cheap ones I have are specified to be accurate from 90-110 degrees F, plus or minus 0.2 degrees F. Just a thought. Mike Gutenkauf Aberdeen, SD Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:08:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: HBD Status Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Very soon, I will learn whether I am one of those who will lose their employment in the automotive industry. At present, there remains $1823.54 in the treasury - or just over 9 months of the ISP costs. In the event I am let go, the HBD will run only for another 6 months as I will be forced to use $500 to terminate the current contract with our ISP (exp 8/17/2009), and Home Brew Digest, Inc. will be dissolved. This because I will no longer have the means to fund the shortfall to the end of the current contract, and, without internet connectivity, the corporation becomes obviated. Of course, any funds received in the interim will serve to extend the timeframe in which the HBD will continue to operate. I will keep you posted on what occurs. All separations will be completed by 1 August, and, though I believe I have exemplary credentials which compare most favorably with those of my contemporaries here, no-one knows what criteria they are using to determine who goes and who stays - and we're all in the same boat... - -- See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan Chief of HBD Janitorial Services http://hbd.org pbabcock at hbd.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:56:13 -0700 From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com> Subject: Music > > As for music during brewing I usually listen to Bach. I got the whole > BWV for about $135 which is amazing (less than a buck a disc) and, as a > review said "there are few disappointments". Ther is usually some piece > of equipment running which makes too much noise to hear it very well so > I often don't bother to put any thing on but when I do it's JSB. > I always found classical good for making wine related beverages, like mead. I've made mead to Vivaldi, Four Seasons, and have always done well. For some reason, blues seem to fit my beer making efforts much better. A little John Lee Hooker makes a brew session much smoother. Dave Tucson, AZ http://hunahpu.blogspot.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:31:16 +0200 From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch> Subject: Thermometer calibration Hi Dave i use a Greisinger GTH 175/Pt. I don't know if it's available in the U.S. Around here, it comes in at around 75$. The range is from -199.9 to 199.9 Celsius, with a accuracy and resolution of 0.1 C +/- 1 digit. I once tested 2 of the above and a fever thermometer in a water bath at around 40 celsius. All three thermometers showed the same temp to the last digit.(to a tenth of a degree) I use it directly for everything around the brewery, not for calibration. They both still work after more than 10 years. And they can be calibrated.(Offset and gain adjustment, or freezing and boiling for example) Cheers Thomas Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:55:53 -0400 From: "jeff_ri" <jeff_ri at cox.net> Subject: re: Bimetal Thermometer Calibration Hi All, In HBD #5369 Dave Larsen asked about finding a mercury calibration thermometer. I haven't looked, but I would be somewhat surprised if any mercury thermometers were still being made. Another option you have is using a medical thermometer. They are fairly narrow range and quite accurate. Jeff McNally Tiverton, RI (652.2 miles, 90.0 deg) A.R. www.southshorebrewclub.org Return to table of contents
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