HOMEBREW Digest #5372 Thu 17 July 2008

 

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Sparge Water/Unnecessary Roughness ("A.J deLange")
  Cleaning a conical fermenter (Harlan Bauer)
  Re: HBD Status (Scott Alfter)
  Music. Well sort of. ("Jason Gazeley")
  Paypal, HBD Status Redux ("Pat Babcock")
  Important course registration date ("Lemcke Keith")


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Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:39:25 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Sparge Water/Unnecessary Roughness

For Jim D: In general it is not necessary to treat sparge water. The 
reason for adding gypsum to the mash is to allow the calcium to react 
with malt phytin thus reducing pH by precipitating calcium phosphate. 
Just adding calcium sulfate to water will not change its pH (it is the 
salt of a strong acid and a strong base) appreciably and, as the phytin 
and phytase are long gone by the time you get to the sparge there, will 
be little effect on the pH of the mash itself. The obvious exception 
would be where, as you have noted, adding gypsum to the sparge water 
noticeably improves the flavor of the beer. In an ale, extra sulfate can 
change the way in which hops are perceived and, as it is always 
desireable to go into the kettle and fermenter with a healthy level of 
calcium, supplementation of those ions (remember that calcium was 
dropped at dough in) may be desireable but you might as well just treat 
all the water (in the HLT) to the desired level before starting brewing. 
If that's what you mean by treating sparge water (i.e. treating all the 
water, dough in, infusion, sparge, and makeup at once) then yes, that's 
fine.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

For Calvin: All interior surfaces of a conical (or any other stainless 
vessel used in food preparation) should be smooth (polished to some 
specified level) and all welds should be "sanitary" (meaning smooth) for 
the reason (harbor for bacteria) you cite. If perceptible roughness is 
present on some surfaces then the manufacturer has cut corners or, and 
this is what I fear, you have a deposit of the dreaded beerstone. If the 
fermenter has been used a lot and you haven't done anything to combat 
beerstone then it is likely that you will have deposits of this 
miserable stuff. Beerstone, in my, thankfully, limited experience with 
it, seems to like vertical walls but its deposition is anything but 
uniform. If the entire cylinder part of your fermenter is rough then 
it's manufacturing that is to blame. If there are irregular patches then 
it's probably beerstone. Beerstone also has a faint beige color so if 
you can get into the fermenter with a bright light you can check for 
that. If you do have  it it can be removed with the same acid mix 
discussed in an earlier post (200 mL each of nitric and phosphoric acids 
in 5 gal warm water) and lots of elbow grease (and I do mean lots - many 
cylces of soak and scrub).

If it is just poor polishing on the part of the manufacturer you could 
probably do the polishing yourself depending on the configuration of the 
manway and the ability to get tools and arms into all the recesses. I 
immagine some sort of grit and wheel would be necessary.  Yes, you will 
leave tiny scratches but these will passivate naturally by exposure to 
air and if the scratches are tiny enough the metal is smooth. I'd want 
to consult John Palmer on how to do this. Getting beerstone off would 
probably be easier.

A.J.



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Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:10:44 -0400
From: Harlan Bauer <harlan.bauer at gmail.com>
Subject: Cleaning a conical fermenter

IMO, the easiest and most effective way to clean SS brewing equipment
is to CIP it. Personally, I prefer Birko, but I'm sure that 5-Star is
just as effective--just be sure to follow the specific manufacturer's
instructions to the letter.

First, professional brewing cleaners are designed to be used as CIP
cleaners, as such, no hand cleaning of any sort should ever be
necessary, provided that the "spray-ball" provides a pattern of full
coverage. 

The primary reason not to use ANY type of abrasive on SS is that you
create a "tooth" that allows beerstone (and other crud) to more
aggressively adhere to the metal--this is the same principal involved
in preparing metal to be pained in order to facilitate a mechanical
bond between paint and metal. The green 3M-brand Scotchbrite scrubby
pads are particularly evil since they a very sharp and very "hard"--try
a new one on glass and you'll see what I mean. It's a very aggressive
"sandpaper"...

The way I've always "fixed" SS that has been scratched or has embedded
iron/rust is to use a dish sponge designed to clean teflon pans--the
kind sold at the grocery store that have an open-cell foam center with a
woven plastic "netting" surrounding it. Then, I use Barkeepers Friend,
which is an abrasive designed for SS which will remove the passivation
layer (see below for how to "correct" this). Make a paste with a little
water and apply A LOT of elbow grese in a random circular pattern to
buff the entire surface until you achieve a uniform, dull grey finish.
Don't be shy about using the cleanser--if the "resistance" you feel
while buffing decreases, you need more powder. Be aware that this is
going to take a bit of time but you should NEVER have to do it again.

Now rinse with plenty of water. There should be ZERO residue and the
water should be absolutely clear and clean.

Now, to re-passivate the SS. As I stated at the beginning, I have a
personal preference for Birko products, so I'm going to use those as
my example. Birko's Acid Brite #2 is a Nitric/Phosphoric acid blend.
Nitric acid passivates SS virtually on contact. CIP the tank for
~30-minutes following the label's instruction for acid to water ratio
and temperature--don't use more acid than the label states--you would
just be wasting acid and hence money. After the 30-minute CIP, drain
the acid and allow the tank to air dry. [NOTE: if the tank is a
converted keg, turn it upside down so all the acid drains out, but
such that air can circulate]

OK. The tank is now cleaned, the scratches should be pretty well gone
and the passivation layer has now been fully restored; your SS is very
happy and healthy and all is again good in the world. Your arms are now
tired from scrubbing, your fingers now look like prunes and you don't
ever want to go through that again.  If you already have a pump, you
can CIP--instead of scrubbing tanks after brewing, let the pump and the
chemicals do the work for you, pour yourself a beer sit down and wait
for the chemicals to do the work for you. Less work, better results and
more time to drink beer...

A quick note on sprayballs: All the non-caustic cleaners and acids are
safe on copper, so you can make sprayballs with copper reducers and
caps. Sweat together something that will work with your system, drill a
bunch of 1/8-inch holes in it so that the entire inside of your tank is
"wetted" when you recirculate the hot chemicals--make sure no areas
are beings missed. And all those little parts and fittings--some can
be tossed in the bottom of the tank being cleaned, or better, just
add them to the recirculation  loop.

As a final note, I typically did not wear rubber gloves when handling
the acid, even at full strength, but my hands are pretty calloused. You
should definitely be careful with this stuff but it's fairly
benign--the most likely point of danger is the temperature of the CIP
solution. IOW, fear the temperature burn because the chemical burn is
pretty unlikely...use common sense and never do anything you feel
uncomfortable doing and by all means, wear gloves and goggles if you
think you should.

harlan.


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Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:04:15 -0700
From: Scott Alfter <scott at alfter.us>
Subject: Re: HBD Status

Dave Larsen wrote:
> This sort of knocked the wind out of me.  It came just as we were
> getting a second wind.  Let's just hope and pray that our fearless
> Janitor keeps his job.

Seconded...speaking from recent experience, being out of a job sucks.  Even if 
you live someplace where the job market is still halfway decent, waiting weeks 
(or months) for someone to say "yes" is a bit nerve-wracking.

> I would hope that if it does get dissolved that somehow the archives
> would still be available.  There is so much good information
> available.  It would be a sad to see all that go.

I'm sure it's mirrored in multiple locations...maybe not all of them are 
publicly-accessible, but the information is out there.  If you've not 
previously tried it, you might give my searchable archive a shot:

http://www.beerandloafing.org/hbd/

I set it up earlier this year to have something easier to search than the main 
archive (or an IMAP folder with all of the messages).

   _/_  Scott Alfter
  / v \ Visit the SNAFU website today!
(IIGS( http://www.nevadabrew.com/   Top-posting!
  \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden            >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?




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Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:33:42 -0600
From: "Jason Gazeley" <jason.gazeley at gmail.com>
Subject: Music. Well sort of.

The Brewing Network Sunday Session.
Each on is about 3 hours so they fit into
the brew day really well. The only problem
is that there is so much good information
that I loose focus once in a while. You can
count on about one solid hour of good info
in most shows. Ideally I listen with BeerSmith
open so I can create a new note every
time I hear a gem. Truth be told I really don't
listen to music any more when I am alone.
There are so many good Pod Casts out there
that  I can't pass up an opportunity to learn.
If you think you can't learn from the Brewing
Network you haven't listened to an entire show.
Give it a listen, you can always rewind if you
miss something.

Cheers,

Jason

- --
Join our Yahoo Homebrew group Desert_Quenchers


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Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:34:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Paypal, HBD Status Redux

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:01:46, Tim Runnette <trunnette at mac.com> writes of
Re: HBD Status

> Do you have a way to donate via PayPal to help fund the forum?

Yes. Paypal donations to serverfund at hbd.org go to the HBD. 

There are several points I need to make re: why the HBD is what it is.
Hopefully this will answer those who are not aware of the HBD's history,
or of its "width and breadth".

What HBD is:

First, Home Brew Digest, Inc. is several domains; not just a simple
website and mailing list. It also includes The Brewery (brewery.org), The
Recipator (recipator.com), The Brews and View BBS (brewsandviews.com), and
the Home Brew Fleamarket (homebrewfleamarket.com). Additionally, the HBD
hosts the websites and mailing lists for several brewing clubs, giving
them individual usernames; has a collection of "preserved" websites from
notable brewers who have, over the years, defined, expanded or exemplified
the craft - again, with individual usernames. The HBD also contains its
archives with http and ftp access. Finally, the HBD contains mailing lists
for several allied hobbies, though their traffic is usually not a
significant burden to the network. These include: HVD, DBD, SAKI, CHEESE,
etc. In any case, the point is that HBD server has significant bandwidth
requirements. All server functions are contained on the HBD network, making
us the "master of our own destiny": DNS, FTP, HTTP, SMTP - virtually all 
services required.

A Little History:

Back in 1995, Rob Gardner, the original HBD Janitor, could no longer run
the HBD, and turned it over to a new home. The HBD was converted to a 
standard mailing list (Majordomo, in fact), with the ability to subscribe
to individual mailings or a daily digest, as is common with such beasties.
Those without the wherewithal to accept the individual mailings soon found
themselves shut out from the HBD conversations because it became 
"immediate". This immediacy combined with the inability to reconsider and
cancel a post prior to publication quickly caused the HBD to devolve into 
something akin to a brewing-related street fight. Many long time posters
to the HBD - many of whom formed its original core of knowledge - left the
HBD never to return. 

In 1996, Karl Lutzen and I received the address list from the HBDs latest 
stewards, and the original scripts from the Digest's original steward, and
the HBD was rebuilt to its original mode, format, and intent.

Where We Now Find Ourselves:

In their current form, the HBD scripts require certain systems to exist on 
the server, and require full programmatic and administerial control of the 
daemons running on that server. Note that these scripts are "non-standard" 
and, as noted above, running the HBD using a "standard" mailing list 
package very nearly killed it for all time.

Putting all of this together means that finding a new hosting solution has 
been both difficult and time consuming; and fully capable solutions have 
proven to just as expensive as the Digest's current digs, but without the 
flexibility we enjoy in administering it. Too, the current hosting situation 
evolved long before virtual and dedicated hosting solutions were anywhere near
affordable. The current arrangements are contractual, and the contract needs 
to be breached (at the cost of $500) or allowed to run out before I can move 
the HBD to any other arrangement. Prior to this juncture in my career, 
spending $500 to terminate the contract was not an imperative.

All that said, I long ago ceded to the fact that the HBD cannot continue
on as it is. It no longer attracts sponsors due to their ability to
cheaply host their own captive discussion groups, and, in today's economy,
you simply cannot depend on an income stream based solely on donations.
Finally, our status as a 501(c)3 limits the amount of fundraising we can
do without more formal tracking and reporting, not to mention another filing. 
Because of this, I had stopped accepting new clubs hosting, and eliminated 
"commercial hosting" as it was an ineffective income stream and keeping it set 
other contractual obligations for the system - those commercial sites remaining
on the HBD network do so with the understanding that there is just over a year 
left to go. (I believe only one remains.) We have a volunteer programmer 
working to make the HBD scripts OS independent and less dependent on certain 
daemons, and the plan is to take the HBD to a remote host at the end of our 
current contract. This will, of course, eliminate all of the side benefits the 
HBD has provided the brewing communities since 1999 as we will not be able to 
contain the bandwidth expenses.

Hopefully, this answers everyone's questions regarding the should-coulda-
wouldas of the HBD, why we are what and where we are, and why it has not
changed much in that regard. 

In other news, I have just returned from a meeting in which we were informed 
that all that were to be separated from the compay within my division have 
been. For the time being, at least, my employment is secure. My thanks to all 
who offered help and/or well wishes - it is appreciated. In the meantime, I 
plan to redouble the effort to break the HBD free from its current 
instantiation. This ain't no way to live...



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Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:00:50 -0400
From: "Lemcke Keith" <klemcke at siebelinstitute.com>
Subject: Important course registration date

Just a reminder to those thinking of attending our fall courses that
August 8th is the cut-off date for registration in our web-based Concise
Course, and it is also the cut-off date for the early registration
discount for our Associate/Diploma program. If you want to get into any
of these classes, please don't wait to register. Info on all our courses
is on the web at www.siebelinstitute.com. 

As well, if you are thinking of getting into professional brewing and
have any questions about what you should be reading and what activities
would help you prepare for entry into the industry, don't hesitate to
contact me. Breweries need people trained for the realities of working
in this challenging field, and if you want some "homework" to get you
pointed in the right direction, please drop me a line. At America's
oldest brewing school, we love to give out homework!

Keith Lemcke
 
Vice-President
Siebel Institute of Technology
World Brewing Academy
 




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