HOMEBREW Digest #5372 Thu 17 July 2008


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  Sparge Water/Unnecessary Roughness ("A.J deLange")
  Cleaning a conical fermenter (Harlan Bauer)
  Re: HBD Status (Scott Alfter)
  Music. Well sort of. ("Jason Gazeley")
  Paypal, HBD Status Redux ("Pat Babcock")
  Important course registration date ("Lemcke Keith")
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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:39:25 -0400 From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net> Subject: Sparge Water/Unnecessary Roughness For Jim D: In general it is not necessary to treat sparge water. The reason for adding gypsum to the mash is to allow the calcium to react with malt phytin thus reducing pH by precipitating calcium phosphate. Just adding calcium sulfate to water will not change its pH (it is the salt of a strong acid and a strong base) appreciably and, as the phytin and phytase are long gone by the time you get to the sparge there, will be little effect on the pH of the mash itself. The obvious exception would be where, as you have noted, adding gypsum to the sparge water noticeably improves the flavor of the beer. In an ale, extra sulfate can change the way in which hops are perceived and, as it is always desireable to go into the kettle and fermenter with a healthy level of calcium, supplementation of those ions (remember that calcium was dropped at dough in) may be desireable but you might as well just treat all the water (in the HLT) to the desired level before starting brewing. If that's what you mean by treating sparge water (i.e. treating all the water, dough in, infusion, sparge, and makeup at once) then yes, that's fine. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * For Calvin: All interior surfaces of a conical (or any other stainless vessel used in food preparation) should be smooth (polished to some specified level) and all welds should be "sanitary" (meaning smooth) for the reason (harbor for bacteria) you cite. If perceptible roughness is present on some surfaces then the manufacturer has cut corners or, and this is what I fear, you have a deposit of the dreaded beerstone. If the fermenter has been used a lot and you haven't done anything to combat beerstone then it is likely that you will have deposits of this miserable stuff. Beerstone, in my, thankfully, limited experience with it, seems to like vertical walls but its deposition is anything but uniform. If the entire cylinder part of your fermenter is rough then it's manufacturing that is to blame. If there are irregular patches then it's probably beerstone. Beerstone also has a faint beige color so if you can get into the fermenter with a bright light you can check for that. If you do have it it can be removed with the same acid mix discussed in an earlier post (200 mL each of nitric and phosphoric acids in 5 gal warm water) and lots of elbow grease (and I do mean lots - many cylces of soak and scrub). If it is just poor polishing on the part of the manufacturer you could probably do the polishing yourself depending on the configuration of the manway and the ability to get tools and arms into all the recesses. I immagine some sort of grit and wheel would be necessary. Yes, you will leave tiny scratches but these will passivate naturally by exposure to air and if the scratches are tiny enough the metal is smooth. I'd want to consult John Palmer on how to do this. Getting beerstone off would probably be easier. A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:10:44 -0400 From: Harlan Bauer <harlan.bauer at gmail.com> Subject: Cleaning a conical fermenter IMO, the easiest and most effective way to clean SS brewing equipment is to CIP it. Personally, I prefer Birko, but I'm sure that 5-Star is just as effective--just be sure to follow the specific manufacturer's instructions to the letter. First, professional brewing cleaners are designed to be used as CIP cleaners, as such, no hand cleaning of any sort should ever be necessary, provided that the "spray-ball" provides a pattern of full coverage. The primary reason not to use ANY type of abrasive on SS is that you create a "tooth" that allows beerstone (and other crud) to more aggressively adhere to the metal--this is the same principal involved in preparing metal to be pained in order to facilitate a mechanical bond between paint and metal. The green 3M-brand Scotchbrite scrubby pads are particularly evil since they a very sharp and very "hard"--try a new one on glass and you'll see what I mean. It's a very aggressive "sandpaper"... The way I've always "fixed" SS that has been scratched or has embedded iron/rust is to use a dish sponge designed to clean teflon pans--the kind sold at the grocery store that have an open-cell foam center with a woven plastic "netting" surrounding it. Then, I use Barkeepers Friend, which is an abrasive designed for SS which will remove the passivation layer (see below for how to "correct" this). Make a paste with a little water and apply A LOT of elbow grese in a random circular pattern to buff the entire surface until you achieve a uniform, dull grey finish. Don't be shy about using the cleanser--if the "resistance" you feel while buffing decreases, you need more powder. Be aware that this is going to take a bit of time but you should NEVER have to do it again. Now rinse with plenty of water. There should be ZERO residue and the water should be absolutely clear and clean. Now, to re-passivate the SS. As I stated at the beginning, I have a personal preference for Birko products, so I'm going to use those as my example. Birko's Acid Brite #2 is a Nitric/Phosphoric acid blend. Nitric acid passivates SS virtually on contact. CIP the tank for ~30-minutes following the label's instruction for acid to water ratio and temperature--don't use more acid than the label states--you would just be wasting acid and hence money. After the 30-minute CIP, drain the acid and allow the tank to air dry. [NOTE: if the tank is a converted keg, turn it upside down so all the acid drains out, but such that air can circulate] OK. The tank is now cleaned, the scratches should be pretty well gone and the passivation layer has now been fully restored; your SS is very happy and healthy and all is again good in the world. Your arms are now tired from scrubbing, your fingers now look like prunes and you don't ever want to go through that again. If you already have a pump, you can CIP--instead of scrubbing tanks after brewing, let the pump and the chemicals do the work for you, pour yourself a beer sit down and wait for the chemicals to do the work for you. Less work, better results and more time to drink beer... A quick note on sprayballs: All the non-caustic cleaners and acids are safe on copper, so you can make sprayballs with copper reducers and caps. Sweat together something that will work with your system, drill a bunch of 1/8-inch holes in it so that the entire inside of your tank is "wetted" when you recirculate the hot chemicals--make sure no areas are beings missed. And all those little parts and fittings--some can be tossed in the bottom of the tank being cleaned, or better, just add them to the recirculation loop. As a final note, I typically did not wear rubber gloves when handling the acid, even at full strength, but my hands are pretty calloused. You should definitely be careful with this stuff but it's fairly benign--the most likely point of danger is the temperature of the CIP solution. IOW, fear the temperature burn because the chemical burn is pretty unlikely...use common sense and never do anything you feel uncomfortable doing and by all means, wear gloves and goggles if you think you should. harlan. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:04:15 -0700 From: Scott Alfter <scott at alfter.us> Subject: Re: HBD Status Dave Larsen wrote: > This sort of knocked the wind out of me. It came just as we were > getting a second wind. Let's just hope and pray that our fearless > Janitor keeps his job. Seconded...speaking from recent experience, being out of a job sucks. Even if you live someplace where the job market is still halfway decent, waiting weeks (or months) for someone to say "yes" is a bit nerve-wracking. > I would hope that if it does get dissolved that somehow the archives > would still be available. There is so much good information > available. It would be a sad to see all that go. I'm sure it's mirrored in multiple locations...maybe not all of them are publicly-accessible, but the information is out there. If you've not previously tried it, you might give my searchable archive a shot: http://www.beerandloafing.org/hbd/ I set it up earlier this year to have something easier to search than the main archive (or an IMAP folder with all of the messages). _/_ Scott Alfter / v \ Visit the SNAFU website today! (IIGS( http://www.nevadabrew.com/ Top-posting! \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:33:42 -0600 From: "Jason Gazeley" <jason.gazeley at gmail.com> Subject: Music. Well sort of. The Brewing Network Sunday Session. Each on is about 3 hours so they fit into the brew day really well. The only problem is that there is so much good information that I loose focus once in a while. You can count on about one solid hour of good info in most shows. Ideally I listen with BeerSmith open so I can create a new note every time I hear a gem. Truth be told I really don't listen to music any more when I am alone. There are so many good Pod Casts out there that I can't pass up an opportunity to learn. If you think you can't learn from the Brewing Network you haven't listened to an entire show. Give it a listen, you can always rewind if you miss something. Cheers, Jason - -- Join our Yahoo Homebrew group Desert_Quenchers Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:34:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Paypal, HBD Status Redux On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:01:46, Tim Runnette <trunnette at mac.com> writes of Re: HBD Status > Do you have a way to donate via PayPal to help fund the forum? Yes. Paypal donations to serverfund at hbd.org go to the HBD. There are several points I need to make re: why the HBD is what it is. Hopefully this will answer those who are not aware of the HBD's history, or of its "width and breadth". What HBD is: First, Home Brew Digest, Inc. is several domains; not just a simple website and mailing list. It also includes The Brewery (brewery.org), The Recipator (recipator.com), The Brews and View BBS (brewsandviews.com), and the Home Brew Fleamarket (homebrewfleamarket.com). Additionally, the HBD hosts the websites and mailing lists for several brewing clubs, giving them individual usernames; has a collection of "preserved" websites from notable brewers who have, over the years, defined, expanded or exemplified the craft - again, with individual usernames. The HBD also contains its archives with http and ftp access. Finally, the HBD contains mailing lists for several allied hobbies, though their traffic is usually not a significant burden to the network. These include: HVD, DBD, SAKI, CHEESE, etc. In any case, the point is that HBD server has significant bandwidth requirements. All server functions are contained on the HBD network, making us the "master of our own destiny": DNS, FTP, HTTP, SMTP - virtually all services required. A Little History: Back in 1995, Rob Gardner, the original HBD Janitor, could no longer run the HBD, and turned it over to a new home. The HBD was converted to a standard mailing list (Majordomo, in fact), with the ability to subscribe to individual mailings or a daily digest, as is common with such beasties. Those without the wherewithal to accept the individual mailings soon found themselves shut out from the HBD conversations because it became "immediate". This immediacy combined with the inability to reconsider and cancel a post prior to publication quickly caused the HBD to devolve into something akin to a brewing-related street fight. Many long time posters to the HBD - many of whom formed its original core of knowledge - left the HBD never to return. In 1996, Karl Lutzen and I received the address list from the HBDs latest stewards, and the original scripts from the Digest's original steward, and the HBD was rebuilt to its original mode, format, and intent. Where We Now Find Ourselves: In their current form, the HBD scripts require certain systems to exist on the server, and require full programmatic and administerial control of the daemons running on that server. Note that these scripts are "non-standard" and, as noted above, running the HBD using a "standard" mailing list package very nearly killed it for all time. Putting all of this together means that finding a new hosting solution has been both difficult and time consuming; and fully capable solutions have proven to just as expensive as the Digest's current digs, but without the flexibility we enjoy in administering it. Too, the current hosting situation evolved long before virtual and dedicated hosting solutions were anywhere near affordable. The current arrangements are contractual, and the contract needs to be breached (at the cost of $500) or allowed to run out before I can move the HBD to any other arrangement. Prior to this juncture in my career, spending $500 to terminate the contract was not an imperative. All that said, I long ago ceded to the fact that the HBD cannot continue on as it is. It no longer attracts sponsors due to their ability to cheaply host their own captive discussion groups, and, in today's economy, you simply cannot depend on an income stream based solely on donations. Finally, our status as a 501(c)3 limits the amount of fundraising we can do without more formal tracking and reporting, not to mention another filing. Because of this, I had stopped accepting new clubs hosting, and eliminated "commercial hosting" as it was an ineffective income stream and keeping it set other contractual obligations for the system - those commercial sites remaining on the HBD network do so with the understanding that there is just over a year left to go. (I believe only one remains.) We have a volunteer programmer working to make the HBD scripts OS independent and less dependent on certain daemons, and the plan is to take the HBD to a remote host at the end of our current contract. This will, of course, eliminate all of the side benefits the HBD has provided the brewing communities since 1999 as we will not be able to contain the bandwidth expenses. Hopefully, this answers everyone's questions regarding the should-coulda- wouldas of the HBD, why we are what and where we are, and why it has not changed much in that regard. In other news, I have just returned from a meeting in which we were informed that all that were to be separated from the compay within my division have been. For the time being, at least, my employment is secure. My thanks to all who offered help and/or well wishes - it is appreciated. In the meantime, I plan to redouble the effort to break the HBD free from its current instantiation. This ain't no way to live... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:00:50 -0400 From: "Lemcke Keith" <klemcke at siebelinstitute.com> Subject: Important course registration date Just a reminder to those thinking of attending our fall courses that August 8th is the cut-off date for registration in our web-based Concise Course, and it is also the cut-off date for the early registration discount for our Associate/Diploma program. If you want to get into any of these classes, please don't wait to register. Info on all our courses is on the web at www.siebelinstitute.com. As well, if you are thinking of getting into professional brewing and have any questions about what you should be reading and what activities would help you prepare for entry into the industry, don't hesitate to contact me. Breweries need people trained for the realities of working in this challenging field, and if you want some "homework" to get you pointed in the right direction, please drop me a line. At America's oldest brewing school, we love to give out homework! Keith Lemcke Vice-President Siebel Institute of Technology World Brewing Academy Return to table of contents
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