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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  RE: Dunkelweizen questions ("David Houseman")
  Water ("A.J deLange")
  Best yeast for saison ("Doug Moyer")
  Re: Dunkelweizen (Kai Troester)
  Siebel Sensory Analysis Seminar at GABF ("Lemcke Keith")
  Error in Aeration Methods Experiments (Fred L Johnson)


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Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 07:20:18 -0400
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Dunkelweizen questions

Aaron,

I would not describe a Dunkelweizen as "porterish" and roasted malts 
wouldn't be a great choice.    Of course there are a number of opinions, but 
I've made, and had from others, the best Dunkelweizens which were 
essentially 50/50 Wheat/Munich malts.   A bit (couple ounces) of de-husked 
Carafa if you want this to be darker.   I'm not in favor of using others' 
recipes since there are so many variables that you won't get the same beer 
anyway.  It is good to look at what others do (Ray's book, Designing Great 
Beers is an excellent read).   But then create your own recipe to match your 
system and your ingredients.   Yes, I believe all beers, ales and lagers 
alike benefit from a period of cold conditioning.

David Houseman



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Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 08:17:05 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Water

Your water isn't that hard (total hardness = 200 ppm as CaCO3) but it is 
too hard for Pilsners and other beers that require soft water though the 
sulfate level is low enough for beers that use quantities of noble hops. 
So all you have to is decarbonate somewhat and that will remove much of 
the hardness at the same time. There are dozens of articles on 
decarbonation methods in the HBD archives. Use of Campden tablets is not 
one of them - those are used to combat chloramine if your municipal 
supplier uses that for disinfection. The time honored method of 
decarbonation is simple boiling - chalk precipitates and the remaining 
water has hardness of about 50 - 100 ppm as CaCO3 which, given the low 
sulfate, is probably OK for Pils etc. though you can get it softer by 
dilution 1:1 or 2:1 distilled:treated water.

A.J.


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Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:30:54 -0400
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Best yeast for saison

I've been thinking about brewing a saison in the next week or two. From 
those who brew this style fairly often, what's your favorite saison yeast 
(and why)?

Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Troutville, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://www.starcitybrewers.org
Beers wot I drunk: 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shyzaboy/sets/72157603460612903/ 




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Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:37:50 -0400
From: Kai Troester <kai at braukaiser.com>
Subject: Re: Dunkelweizen

>  I want there to be a clear contrast between the two, with the
> dunkelweizen being almost "porterish," if that makes sense.  I mean I
> want a roasted character to it to add some depth to the flavor.  I'm
> planning on a pretty straight-ahead wheat/pils/munich/choc wheat
> grist.  Is that close?  It seems most of the online recipes I find for
> the style have about 7 different malts/grains in them, and I'm a big
> believer in keeping recipes simple.  Would 50/40/5/5
> (wheat/pils/munich/choc) be Ok?  Anyone have a recipe they want to
> share?

Aaron,

On my recent trip to Germany, I found only a few dark Weissbier  
examples that showed a hint of roast in the taste and finish(Erdinger  
and Franziskaner). Although roast is not typical, in small amounts it  
can still be stylistic accurate. In order to make a Dunkles Weissbier  
that is more than just a colored Helles Weissbier, like Erdinger seems  
to be, I suggest using 50-60% wheat, 47-37% dark Munich and only 3% or  
less specialty malts like chocolate and/or Carafa. Maybe even the  
dehusked Carafa Special, which will still give you a hint of roast  
when 3% are used in the grist. The large amount of Munich malt will  
give it the full character of a dark German beer.

> Also - in the German Wheat Beer "Classic Beer Styles" book, Eric
> Warner gives an indication that a dunkelweizen should be cold
> conditioned for several weeks before serving.

That may have something to do with the fact that the Dunkel Weissbier  
generally has less yeast derived characteristics. They should be there  
but not as prominent as you want them in the lighter version as to  
much might clash with the dark malt character. In addition to that,  
the dark malt character may need some time to develop.

> but is it an important step?

Just keep some bottles for longer and see for yourself.

Kai





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Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:01:02 -0400
From: "Lemcke Keith" <klemcke at siebelinstitute.com>
Subject: Siebel Sensory Analysis Seminar at GABF

Siebel Institute & Brewers Association
Sensory Analysis Seminar
 
When:
During the Great American Beer Festival
1:00 pm - 5:00 pm
Friday, Oct. 10, 2008
 
Where:
Maddie Silks Room
Denver Marriott City Center
1701 California Street
Denver, CO
 
It is once again time to get your taste buds working in preparation for
America's greatest beer experience! The Siebel Institute of Technology
and Brewers Association are proud to present professional-level brewing
education at the 2008 Great American Beer Festival in Denver.
 
The 4-hour Siebel Institute Sensory Analysis Seminar is designed to
train professional brewers in the process of sensory evaluation of beer.
During this informative, practical presentation, students will learn to
employ techniques used in professional breweries worldwide to assess the
quality of their ales and lagers. The seminar will follow the brewing
process from brewhouse to packaged product focusing on positive and
negative flavor compounds produced during the various stages of the
brewing process, including fermentation, maturation, packaging and
storage. The origin and control of the various flavors will be discussed
and students will have the opportunity to smell & taste beers that have
been spiked with a variety of food-grade flavor compounds.
 
The $125 fee includes the 4-hour presentation, seminar notebook, and all
tasting samples. To find out more about this excellent presentation, or
to register (space is limited), please contact the Siebel Institute of
Technology in Chicago by phone at 312-255-0705, ext. 118 or by e-mail at
info at siebelinstitute.com <BLOCKED::mailto:info@siebelinstitute.com> .
 
You can book space in the Sensory program by contacting Lupe Zepeda via
email, lzepeda at siebelinstitute.com <mailto:lzepeda@siebelinstitute.com>
 . To reserve a space you must provide a credit card number (Visa or
MasterCard) or mail a check (the space is held from the time the check
arrives in Chicago). If you require a receipt, one will be forwarded
after the transaction is completed, which may take several days as
transactions are batched for processing. Please note that payment is
non-refundable in the case of cancellation or non-appearance by the
attendee. For further information contact the Siebel Institute by e-mail
at info at siebelinstitute.com <mailto:info@siebelinstitute.com>  or by
phone at 312-255-0705.



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Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:07:08 -0400
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: Error in Aeration Methods Experiments

Fellow brewers:

You will recall that I reported some results of the rates of  
dissolving oxygen in water by various aeration methods. These results  
were put into a manuscript which posted on the web and I reported the  
results in an interview with James Spencer, published as a podcast.   
I and others have been surprised at the relatively high oxygen  
content that I measured on the water after I delivered it to the  
carboy or bucket. Unfortunately, I have discovered that my meter is  
probably giving me falsely high values a the low end of the dissolved  
oxygen content of water and the actual values of the oxygen content  
of water delivered to the carboy and bucket were probably  
considerably lower than I reported.

This past weekend, I attempted to measure the oxygen content of  
boiled water collected in a one quart Mason jar submerged in the  
boiling water and sealed immediately with no air. I sampled at  
several time points: just before boil, at the beginning of the boil,  
and at 5, 10, 15, and 25 minutes after the start of boil. The samples  
were allowed to cool to nearly room temperature and the oxygen  
content of the water was measured immediately after opening each  
container. The minimum value was reached shortly after boiling at  
about 2.5 mg/L. This value surprised me also, so I just tested the  
meter by progressively adding sodium metabisulfite to a quart of  
water. As I added bisulfite, the oxygen content went from 8.46 mg/L  
down to a minimum of 3.2 mg/L. Now I am convinced that my DO meter is  
in error at the low end and that the minimum value of oxygen in the  
earlier experiments was lower than I reported.

I am very sorry for the confusion this may have caused, but I hasten  
to say that I don't think this will change the major conclusions of  
the reported experiment. I believe the relative rates of oxygen  
dissolution using the methods reported will not change, that is  
shaking was fastest, followed by 1 liter/min air pumped through an  
aeration stone, followed by 1 liter/min air pumped without an  
aeration stone. Pumping air at only about 100 mL/min, with our  
without an aeration stone was a relatively poor method of dissolving  
air.

I will repeat the experiments if and when I figure out why my meter  
is failing me or if I get a more accurate meter/probe.

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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