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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  pre-chill extract measurement doesn't match post chill measurement (Kai Troester)
  Water Chem Help (Altbier with Pittsburgh water) (Calvin Perilloux)
  Oak Chips ("Dave Larsen")


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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:36:36 -0400
From: Kai Troester <kai at braukaiser.com>
Subject: pre-chill extract measurement doesn't match post chill measurement

On my last brew day I made an observation that puzzles me. The extract  
content of samples taken before chilling the wort and after chilling  
the wort don?t match. Here are the numbers:

pre-boil volume (90 C)  = 26 l; temperature corrected ~ 25l (+/- 0.2 l)
pre-boil extract ~ 15.3 Plato (corrected for temperature) (+/- 0.2 Plato)
post-boil pre-chill volume (100C) = 23l; temperature corrected ~22l (+/- 0.2l)
post-boil pre-chill extract ~ 17.0 Plato (corrected for temperature)  
(+/- 0.2 Plato)
post-chill volume (10 C) = 22l (+/- 0.2 l)
post-chill extract ~16.0 Plato (corrected for temperature) (+/- 0.2 Plato)

I?m using an immersion chiller.

The sample taken pre-chill was placed in a large bowl and cooled at  
ambient temperature. Because I mistrusted my temperature correction at  
first, I also compared the extract reading for pre and post chill  
samples when they were at the same temperature.

My first thought was that the precipitation of cold break must be the  
cause of the extract loss (the post chill sample was much cloudier),  
but I doubt that I get 10g/l cold break b/c that is the amount of  
extract I?m missing. The literature mentions cold break to be in the  
range of 100-350 mg/l.

The second thought was evaporation of the sample pulled from the hot  
wort. But it is the pre chill extract measurement that makes more  
sense when I look at the pre and post boil volume and extract numbers  
(Vpre_boil * Epre_boil = Vpost_boil * Epost_boil).

There was also no water added by a leaky chiller as the pre-chill and  
post-chill volumes match.

This is not the first time that I?m observing this. On the brew before  
I took pre boil and post chill measurements and was wondering why the  
post chill extract was 1% less than what I would calculate with:  
Vpre_boil * Epre_boil = Vpost_boil * Epost_boil.

And before that a post to the Northern Brewer forum started my  
interest in this. There a number of brewers reported that the equation  
mentioned above doesn?t work for them.

Anybody have an explanation for this phenomenon or made similar observations?

Kai





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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 07:43:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Water Chem Help (Altbier with Pittsburgh water)

Lance, for an Altbier, I think I'd keep the carbonate under 
control and not add more.  It is quite conceivable that the
Duesseldorf brewers actually take steps to reduce carbonate.
Given some of the groundwater characteristics in Germany
(that is, really high carbonate), I'd even say it is *very* 
likely.

Your NaCl is pretty high already, so I wouldn't add CaCl
either to increase calcium.

Given the pronounced hop bitterness that most brewers here
aim for in Duesseldorf Altbier, I think you'd do better 
adding just enough Gypsum to get your calcium level up
to where you want it, thus increasing the sulfate a bit.
That would give you a cleaner bitterness than the sometimes
harsh bitter that you can get from high carbonate water.

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA



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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:27:43 -0700
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com>
Subject: Oak Chips

I'm thinking of doing a porter with some oak character.  How do you
use oak chips?  I imagine you boil them before you toss them in.  Do
you also toss in the boiled liquid? Do you do it in the secondary?
How long do you leave them in there?

Dave
Tucson, AZ
http://hunahpu.blogspot.com/


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