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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re: More astringency ("Danny Williams")
  Re: More astringency (Matt)
  Re;  More astringency ("Bill & Sara Frazier")
  Re: More astringency (Kai Troester)


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Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 06:51:28 -0500
From: "Danny Williams" <danny at bubrew.org>
Subject: Re: More astringency

> I use R.O. water and build my mineral profil from scratch based on the
> color of my
> mash. For this I use John Palmer's R.A. Spreadsheet. I add minerals to
> both my mash and my sparge water.

I too use this same basic process but with one difference that might
make a difference to you. I adjust my mash using Palmer's spreadsheet
and the color of the beer to get the RA correct and 50-100ppm Ca. Then
I sparge with RO water only. Then I add salts to the kettle to get Ca
back to around 100 (it was diluted in the sparge) and to include
whatever flavor ions I might want in this beer.

For instance, a brown ale might only need some chalk in the mash to
balance RA and provide Ca. Sparge with RO. Then if this is a hoppy
American style brown the kettle gets several grams of gyspum. If it is
a malty English brown, it would probably get a little gypsum and
somewhat more CaCl.

The idea, at least as I understand it, is that the RO sparge does not
ask for any additional buffering from the mash because there are no
minerals there to be counteracted, so astringency is much less likely
to be extracted. If you prefer to sparge with your tap water then the
spreadsheet will tell you how much acid to add. It is a surprisingly
small amount usually.


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 07:25:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: More astringency

I think you left out what might be the most direct option
for solving the astringency problem: just stop the fly
sparge before tannin overextraction occurs.

There are well developed guidelines for this if you can
find a way to measure pH and (or maybe "or") SG.  But if
you don't want to measure things and prefer to work "open
loop" then a single batch sparge is more forgiving.

Matt


      


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Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:42:17 -0600
From: "Bill & Sara Frazier" <bsfrazier at att.net>
Subject: Re;  More astringency

"I have tried checking the gravity of my final runnings using a 
refractometer but have found that to be
unreliable."

Not sure what you mean about unreliable results from a refractometer.  All 
you need is a drop of wort and then read the brix [or specific gravity 
depending on your refractometer].  If your "end-of-sparge" brix vary it's 
because the actual brix is different for beers you are making.
You probably can make better tasting beers if you cut off the sparge before 
the gravity of the wort falls too far.

I use about 25% more grain than a recipe calls for.  I cut off the sparge 
when a predetermined amount of fermentables are in the kettle.  Then I 
dilute to full boil volume with brewing water.  I use a refractometer for 
all steps in the process.  This method is very predictable.  It also cuts 
off about an hour of brewing time...I run the wort into the kettle in about 
10 minutes.  Resulting beers have a better mouth-feel or body.  They are not 
astringent.

"I have also tried checking the ph of the final runnings using Color pHast 
Strips. This also proved unreliable because they are not  all
that easy to read."
It's a shame homebrew shops continue to sell pH strips...they are worthless 
IMO.  You will be much happier with your new pH meter.  Just be sure to 
calibrate the meter before each use with pH 7 and 4 [or 3] buffer.

"Right now I am operating under the assumption that my astringency problem
stems from the rising pH as I get near the end of my sparge."
This may be true but I believe you will brew better tasting beer if you stop 
the sparge before brix [or specific gravity] of the run-off falls too low.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas




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Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:53:32 -0500
From: Kai Troester <kai at braukaiser.com>
Subject: Re: More astringency


> It seems like I have three options left.
>
> 1. go back to a less aggressive crush because I had no astringency problems
>     then.
>
> 2. Go to batch sparging and rely on the buffering power of the grains to
>     maintain acceptable pH
>
> 3. Acidify my sparge water. But to what pH?

Yes, these are good options to try. I'd start with going back to the  
old crush and see if this will fix the problem. If it does, you don't  
have to stick with that crush but you know that the crush has an  
impact and you can try compensating for in later brews to do that I'd  
try the other options that you listed later:

Less aggressive sparging or even no sparge lautering is an option. The  
latter will eliminate the sparging step.

I don't think you need to acidify the sparge water. But only using the  
minerals in the mash and using straight R/O water for the sparge is a  
viable option. R/O water has very little buffering capaciy which means  
your run-off pH should change only little if at all during the lauter.

Kai




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