---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Reinheitsgebot (purity law) (Dick Dunn)
  Re: wine/champaign bottles (Sheridan Adams)
  Long Fermentation -- Autolysis? (Marc Rouleau)
  The Rheinheitsgebot (German Beer Purity Law) (Darryl Richman)
  Reduced signal to noise... (617)253-0885" <CASEY at ALCVAX.PFC.MIT.EDU>
  re: Heavy beers -- all-grain problem? (Darryl Richman)
  Newsgroup debate, mashing (Jason Goldman)
  Butterscotch & Maple (Jay Hersh)
  Maple flavors (Rad Equipment)
  Doppelbock Recipe Source ("MR. DAVID HABERMAN")
  Re: Weiss Beer (John Polstra)
  1st time brew questions (Duane Smith)
  Anchor Hops (Re: Hops for Liberty Ale) (Clay Phipps)
  Newsgroup Question (rdg)
  Re:  Proportion of wheat (John DeCarlo)
  travelling with home brew  (dbreiden)
  Re: Travelling with homebrew (wicinski)
  Re: Portland Brew Pubs  (wicinski)
  Weiss. (Stephen D. Cohen)
  help me start brewing! (Stephen Brent Peters)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 28 Nov 90 02:11:46 MST (Wed)
From: ico.isc.com!rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: Reinheitsgebot (purity law)

hplabs!ames!rutgers!bellcore.bellcore.com!hera!afd (adietz) asks:

> First things first.  Where can I find a copy of the German purity law?
> Yeah, yeah, I read about it in TCJOH, etc., etc - but I've never actually
> read the declaration itself.  I'd like to.  While drinking my kreausened beer.

that's "kraeusened" (ae = a umlaut)  If you really want to get back to our
roots, get a copy of Jackson's big book.  In it there is a reproduction of
the Reinheitsgebot as it was originally written--complete in the original
hand-written Fraktur, archaic spellings, and all.  I think it's fascina-
ting--the world's first consumer-protection law!  I'll try a transcription
here; anyone who wants to send corrections can do so and I'll incorporate
them.  (Note that I'm transcribing what's written; I'm *not* trying to
update the spelling or fix even some obvious errors!  For example, I'm
fairly sure that "kainem" below would be "keinem", and I can't make a
better transcription than "nithallten" based on what I see.)

  Wir woellen auch sonderlichen/das fueran allenthalben in unsern Stetten/
  Maerckthen/un auff dem Lannde/zu kainen Pier/merer stueckh/dan allain
  Gersten/Hopffen/un wasser/genomen un gepzaucht foelle werdn.  Welher aber
  dise unsere Ordnung wissentlich ueberfaren unnd nithallten wurde/dem sol
  von seiner gerichtzoebzigkait/dasselbig ?as Pier/zuestraff
  unnachlaesslich so offt es geschicht/genommen werden.

Punctuation was different in those days, obviously.  I've copied in the /es
as they appear; they substitute for comma and some other things.  Period
exists, but not semicolon as far as I see.

The important part is the "allain Gersten...wasser" which is "only malt,
hops, and water".  I'm not going to attempt a complete translation, but the
following sentence (Welher aber...) starts out with an ominous "But whoever
this of our orders knowingly disobeys..."

Do we have any German scholars out there?  It's clear my high-school German
(vintage mid-'60's) just isn't up to the task!

Come to think of it, if we could clean this up I'd be willing to make some
single-page posters of it.  I've got a Fraktur font handy.  Not sure how we
would distribute it, but we'll figure that out.  It's probably OK to make
copies.  (After > 450 years, the copyright has probably expired.:-)
  ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at raven.eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd   (303)494-0965


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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 90 9:02:28 CDT
From: sja at gath.cray.com (Sheridan Adams)
Subject: Re: wine/champaign bottles

>    I've been gathering bottles to fill ...  and i was wondering if
> there's anything wrong with using wine bottles...  I don't think that you
> can cap them with the normal bottle capper thing, but i thought that you could
> use those reusable Champaign-cap-things.  Is there a problem with the bottles
> not able to handle the pressure?

	There is nothing wrong with using those bottles that I know of.  As
a matter of fact I used two the last time I bottled.  If you get the right
type it can be capped with a standard capper.  Just check to see if it has 
a lip like the beer bottles.  Otherwise corks of one type or another will
work.  You may want to get some wire tie-downs just in case.  As far as
pressure is concerned, no problem.  Any champaign I've ever had has a lot
more pressure than any beer I've ever had.

	The only other thing I can think of is the size of the bottle.  They
hold twice as much or more than a standard bottle.  I would use those bottles
when serving a group as I don't like resealing any sort of carbonated
beverage container.  I don't like it when the beverage goes flat.

- -- 

			Sheridan J. Adams
			sja at grog.cray.com
			(612) 683-3030

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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 1990 10:07:58 EST
From: Marc Rouleau <mer6g at virginia.edu>
Subject: Long Fermentation -- Autolysis?

I'm relaxed and not worrying, but I'd also like some advice. :-)

My current batch is a brown ale with two cans of John Bull Amber, a pound
of crystal steeped at 175 degrees for 25 minutes (I now know that was too
high), hop pellets, and Wyeast German Ale yeast.  SG 1.036.  I started the
yeast in a champaign bottle half filled with wort and pitched all the liquid
when it had a couple of inches of foam on the top.  I pitched at 70 degrees
and the temperature has remained constant since then.

I left it in a closed plastic fermenter (no bubbling, probably because
the lid doesn't seal perfectly) for four days, and then I racked it to
a carboy.  SG 1.018.  (Since then I've finished Miller's book and am
resolved to try single-stage fermentation in an acid carboy.)  The beer
in the primary was covered with gooey plasticky mustard-colored stuff.
I left this top layer and the bottom layer of trub/dead yeast behind.

The medium-brown beer started bubbling away happily in the carboy at a
rate of about one ever 5-10 seconds.  Within a day an inch of sandy
sediment (dead yeast, I assume) had accumulated.  Seven days have passed
since the racking and it's still bubbling about once every 10 seconds.
The layer of yeast is now almost two inches high, and the beer is dark-brown.

What should I do?  Miller warns that autolysis of yeast can be a problem
with high pitching rates and high temperature.  Could that be what's
happening now?  Or is it reasonable to believe that there's still fermentable
stuff (other than spent yeast) in the beer?

    -- Marc Rouleau

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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 90 07:27:16 -0800
From: darryl at ism.isc.com (Darryl Richman)
Subject: The Rheinheitsgebot (German Beer Purity Law)

>From: hplabs!ames!rutgers!bellcore.bellcore.com!hera!afd (adietz)
>First things first.  Where can I find a copy of the German purity law?
>Yeah, yeah, I read about it in TCJOH, etc., etc - but I've never actually
>read the declaration itself.  I'd like to.  While drinking my kreausened beer.

How could such pleading go unrewarded?  I have in front of me a book
entitled "Hofbrau Munchen 1589-1989", really just an extended bit of
marketing hype for HB, but it includes such things as a color photo of
the Rheinheitsgebot of 1516.  I hope you will pardon any typos I add
because the gothic script is not native for me;  it would also appear
that this is written in the Bayrische dialect:

"Wie das Pier summer un winter auf dem Land sol geschenckt und prau"en
werden

"Item Wir ordnen ferzen und wollen mit Rathe unnser Landeschaffe
das furan allenehalben in dem Fu"rstenthumb Bayern auf dem Lande
auch in unsern Stettn un Ma"rckthen da dephalb hieuor kain fonndere
ordnung istvon Michaelis biss Georij ain mass oder kopffpiers u"ber
ainnen pfennig Mu"ncher werung un von Sant Jorgentag biss auf Michaelis
die mass u"ber zwen pfennig derselben werung und derenden der kopff ist
u"ber drey haller beynadgesetzter Pene nicht gegeben noch aufgeschenckht
sol werden.  Wo auch ainer nit Merzn sonder ander Pier prawen oder
sonst haben wu"rde sol Erd och das kains wegs hoher dann die mass
umb ainen pfennig schencken und verkauffen.
*********
Wir wollen auch sonderlichen das sura"n allenthalben in unsern Stetten
Marckthen un auff dem Lannde zu kainem Pier merer stu"ckh dan allain
Gersten Hopffen un Wasser genomen un gepraucht solle werden.
*********
Welher aber dise unsere Ordnung
wissentlich u"berfaren unnd nit hallten wurde dem sotvon seiner
gerichtzobrigkait dasselbig vas Pier zustrass un nachlasslich so osst
es geschicht genommen werden.  Redoch wo ain Geu"wirt von ainen Pierprewen
in unnsern Stettn Ma"rckten oder ausmlandepezuzeitn ainen Einer piers
zwen oder drey kauffen und wider winnter den gemaynnen Pawisuolckaussenncken
wu"rde dem selben allain aber sonsst nyemandts sol dye mals oder der
kopffpiers umb ainen haller hoher dann oben gefirztist zegeben un
ausszeschencken erlaubt und unuerpotn.  Auch unns als Landssfursten
vorbehalten sein.  Wohier inn so mercklich beswa"ru"g aus mongl oder
theu"rung des gerrayds fu"r sielen (nach dem die fargenng auch die gegent
und rifirn mit dem trayd in unsern Land ungeleych sein) darin gemainem
nutz zu gutem ma"ssigung zu"thu"m wie dann solhes her nach im beschluss von
dem fu"rthauss mit merern wortten aussgebruckt geserztift.

I bielieve that the sentence within the asterisks says (very roughly):

"We especially will that in all our city markets and across the land no beer
shall come brewed from other than barley, hops, and water exclusively."

(Of course, if you believe me, you are entrusting yourself to someone with
about 10 weeks of "conversational German" and a pocket English/German -
German/English dictionary.  You can't always believe what you read, you know.
Anyone with a more scholarly understanding of the tongue is welcome to
send corrections.)

Anyway, to you I say "Ein Prosit!"

		--Darryl Richman

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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 90 10:29 EST
From: "JEFF CASEY / (617)253-0885" <CASEY at ALCVAX.PFC.MIT.EDU>
Subject: Reduced signal to noise...

...sigh....
  it seems like this issue won't die, so I feel I have to regretfully add
my two cents worth.
  1) many salutations to Rob Gardner for impeccable management of the
     digest.  Benevolant dictators are hard to find, and worth their
     weight in gold.
  2) I agree with *all* the various stated reasons for keeping the digest
     as is, most strongly:  "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and "I've
     got work to do -- a digest a day is barely ok, a constant stream of
     interruptions isn't".
  3) I fully agree and endorse Rob's decision to leave well enough alone.
  4) I wish Dave Sill would shut up so we can go back to discussing brewing.
     I hereby grant Rob full endorsement to censor additional discussion on
     this issue (including this message if he wants).
Sorry to waste your time folks.  Dave - if you want to flame me, do it 
directly, and don't clutter up the digest.  You can find me at
the address below.
   Speaking of brewing...
I finally gave up on my last two kegs of brew (partial mash split into a
red bitter and stout).  The Edme yeast infection got them, and I kept hoping
that it would settle down and be drinkworthy, but by now it tastes like
jet fuel with porcupine piss.  I just got enough grain for another batch
of bitter, and I'll probably use Whitbread.  One of these days, I might
even give up my anarchic ways and switch to liquid cultures, but I can't
seem to plan ahead enough.  Questions:
  1) does anybody out there have a recommendation for a good Wyeast to use
     for a first try in a red bitter?
  2) has anybody tried the Mt. Hood hops mentioned in the special issue of
     Zymurgy?  (I haven't seen it in any of the local stores).
                        Jeff Casey      casey at alcvax.pfc.mit.edu

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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 90 07:36:57 -0800
From: darryl at ism.isc.com (Darryl Richman)
Subject: re: Heavy beers -- all-grain problem?

>From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
>I'm interested in doing a all-grain Dopplebock. I've done a couple
>all-grain batches and would prefer to stay with grain if I can. Miller,
>however, indicates that doing a real heavy all-grain beer can be a problem.
>In his recipe for Dopplebock, he uses extract, and boils down a
>larger-than-needed volume to concentrate the wort. Have any of you had
>success with this or other techniques? I imagine Imperial Stouts would have
>the same problem... Recipes appreciated, of course :-)

I have a bit of experience here, and I have found that to make a good
tasting doppelbock (for example, like Salvator from Paulaner), you do
have to boil to concentrate your extract.  You can find my recipe for
such a doppelbock in the latest Zymurgy, but beware-the recipe is for
15 gallons, not 5.  I boiled 19 gallons I collected from sparging for
3.5 hours to get down to 13 gallons (biggest size I can handle at the
end of the boil) and then added water in the primary to reach 15 gal.
of wort.

The English have a different approach, at least for barleywines.  They
make two beers from one mash by making the barleywine from exclusively
the first runnings from the lauter tun, and make a mild from what ever
is left over.  Brewers are thrifty people and do not easily throw away
extract.  Be creative!

		--Darryl Richman

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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 90 08:37:05 mst
From: Jason Goldman <jdg at hp-lsd.cos.hp.com>
Subject: Newsgroup debate, mashing

>In Digest #546, SILL D E writes:
> News statistics regularly show that the vast majority of articles are
> delivered in a day.  By the second day, 90-95% have reached their
> destination.  Considering the number of uucp-connected sites that only
> pass news and mail once daily, that's not too bad.

New postings at my site are often a week old or older.

> My biggest objection to the anti-newsgroup side is the elitist
> attitude.  Sure, our S/N is higher than it would be if everyone knew
> we existed and could participate without having to subscribe.  But is
> maximal S/N ratio our ultimate goal?  Isn't the sharing of homebrewing
> information among interested parties our raison d'etre?  I mean, if we
> want to be elite and selective, shouldn't we have minimal proficiency
> requirements?  Wouldn't our S/N ratio increase if we only let
> homebrewer's with demonstrated proficiency post?  Sure it would, but
> it would also make HBD a significantly less useful source of
> information for the average homebrewer.

Elitist?  You bet!  Signal to noise ratio is VERY important to me.  I have a
job that takes up alot of my time.  If I'm going to read this stuff, I want
it to be chock full of real beer information.  If somebody is not an expert
brewer, but they want to post about brewing, I have no problem reading that.
There's a good chance I'll learn from that person (whether they're an expert
or not).  However, flamefests, run-on threads that are only vaguely related
to brewing, and non-related postings are a MAJOR irritant.  I'm sorry that
I'm contributing to the noise by responding on this issue! (1/2 ;-)

ObBrew:
Well, my last all grain batch (my fourth ever) is a success!  I always heard
(and objectively agreed) that all grain brewing gave more control and made
better beer.  My first attempts, however, disproved this.  I stuck with it,
though.  Now, my latest batch is as good as an extract beer!  That may not
sound like much to the experts but it's a big deal for me.  I think I'm
finally getting over the learning curve.  The areas I had the most trouble
with were temperature control and efficient sparging.

Jason
hp-lsd!jdg

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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 90 10:22:00 EST
From: hersh at coco.ctc.tasc.com (Jay Hersh)
Subject: Butterscotch & Maple


There was a really good article in a past Zymurgy regarding brewing with 
maple sap instead of water. I believe it also had some recipes that utilized
maple syrup along with the article.

RE: Butterscotch. My guess is you've got excess diacetyl. This is typically
linked to the yeast strain. I would suggest having a look at the Zymurgy
troubleshooting special issue from 2 or so years ago. Yeast strain and
fermenting temperaturres can cause excess diacetyl production. Perhaps
you can e-mail me more specifics regarding the brewing process and 
indgredients and I can make a suggestion

Jay Hersh
hersh at coco.ctc.tasc.com

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Date: 28 Nov 90 08:41:43
From: Rad Equipment <Rad_Equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Maple flavors

REGARDING                Maple flavors
In HBD #546, jessiman at kepler.harvard.edu (Alec Jessiman) asks about using maple
syrup to accent beer flavors.

I have tried to get the flavor of maple syrup into several beers I have brewed
without success.  I first tried, as Alec has, by adding a cup or so to the
boil.  Next I tried using maple syrup as my priming sugar, this worked well as
far as carbonation was concerned but did not impart any detectable flavor.  My
last attempt was to get a "pure" maple extract, intended as a flavoring agent,
and add that to the secondary.  Still no maple character was evident.  All of
the brews I have tried this with have been fairly heavy beers.  I thought that
the maple would do a nice job of enhancing an oatmeal stout, however it is
possible that the stout simply overpowered the maple.  Perhaps Alec's attempt
with a fairly light ale which is also lightly hopped will determine if the
maple character is transferable at all, then we'll build from there.  Let us
know how it turns out!

Russ Wigglesworth  <Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu>



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Date: 28 Nov 90 09:11:00 PDT
From: "MR. DAVID HABERMAN" <habermand at afal-edwards.af.mil>
Subject: Doppelbock Recipe Source

Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov> asks about all-grain Doppelbocks.

I haven't made one yet but I have tasted an excellent one brewed by fellow
Maltose Falcon and HB Digest Subscriber, Darryl Richman.  The beer won first
place in Bock at the AHA conference, for which he got a trip to Norway.  The
recipe is all-grain and is in the latest Zymurgy, special issue 1990.

The Zymurgy Special Hops issue also has articles on the the history of hops,
hop varieties, growing hops, calculating hop bitterness, hop utilization,
matching hops with beer styles, and hop oils.

CAUTION!!!!!!!!!!     DEAD HORSE BEATING HERE!!!!!!!!!

I enjoy reading the digest with my morning brew, getting buches of articles
during the day annoys me.  I was a member of a couple of newsgroups for a
while, and getting over hundred messages a day was too much.  A lot of
newsgroup traffic is not available on the Internet and that would leave me an
several hundred other subscribers unable to participate.  The digest format,
with a table of contents, allows me to search for subjects in past issues,
instead of sending a message to ask about something already covered.

David Haberman
Bring Back the Stubbies!


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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 90 09:48:44 PST
From: polstra!jdp at uunet.UU.NET (John Polstra)
Subject: Re: Weiss Beer

In HBD #546, CS_PAUL at gsbvxb.uchicago.edu (Paul Ford 312/702-0335) asked
how much wheat a Weissbier should contain:

> Anybody have an opinion to offer on this range of proportions?

In Germany, a beer that is called wheat beer must contain at least 50%
malted wheat.  The description of the category for the AHA national
competition says that a German wheat beer typically contains 50-60%
wheat malt.

> Is brewing wiess beer as an ale even acceptable?

Sure!  A Weissbier *is* an ale.

Newsgroup? No no no no no no no!

   John Polstra               polstra!jdp at uunet.uu.net
   Polstra & Co., Inc.           ...!uunet!polstra!jdp
   Seattle, Washington USA              (206) 932-6482
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."  -- John Barth

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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 90 06:53:08 PST
From: uunet!tc.fluke.COM!gamebird at uunet.UU.NET (Duane Smith)
Subject: 1st time brew questions


	I brewed my 1st two batches of beer this last weekend using the
	single stage- blowout type system and have several questions.

	The beer was a lager style, 1 Emde beer kit and 1 Cooper beer kit.

	The temperature of the beer was 75 F when I pitched the yeast.
	The room temperature where I put the carboys varies from 65-70 F.
	After 24 hours active fermantation started But I never had a 
	blowout occur---Why Not??

	The level of the beer in the carboy was up to the outside shoulder.

	The foam got up to the carboy neck but never out of it.
	Was the temp. too cold?
	Did I not put enough water in the carboy?? it was a 5 gal. carboy.
	All of the nasty brown stuff has dried on the carboy glass at the
	top.
	I need some advice.. Any thoughts on what I may not have done right?
	Any comments would be appreciated.

					Thanks,  Duane Smith

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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 90 13:29:27 pst
From: hplabs!garth!phipps (Clay Phipps)
Subject: Anchor Hops (Re: Hops for Liberty Ale)

In HOMEBREW Digest #544, Mon 26 November 1990 (25 Nov 90 14:37:00 EST),
"KBS::TONS::HOLTSFORD" <holtsford%kbs.tons.decnet at clvax1.cl.msu.edu> wrote:
>
>I'm getting pretty close to duplicating its general characteristics
>[of Liberty Ale --] body, head, color, EtOH, overall bitterness -- 
>but I haven't quite found the right hop flavor and aroma.
>I've come closest by using Willamette, 
>(c. 1 oz for 10 minutes of the boil and c. 1 oz dry-hopped in the secondary).  

My notes from the AHA Brew-In at Anchor Brewing, on the occasion of the AHA 
National Conference back on June 16, identify the following hops for Anchor:

    Liberty:    Cascade
    Porter:     Northern Brewer (3 separate additions of hops)
    Steam(tm):  Northern Brewer

We participated in their brewing--and boil-over[* :-) ]--of their Porter.  
The first addition of hops used what I now remember as a food-grade 
container much bigger than the plastic 10-gallon fermenter I have at home--
so maybe maybe it was a 20 or 25-gallon container--most-of-the-way-full with 
whole hops.  That's about as quantitative as I was able to be, operating on 
the understanding that it is acceptable brewery-touring etiquette to ask 
the variety of hops for a beer, but *not* the amount used.  
One of the brewers did say that their Steam is brewed in a 120-barrel batch; 
the porter is brewed in an approx. 75-barrel batch. 

[*] Evidence, perhaps, that boil-overs happen even to the pros.
Of course, they were were deluged with questions from the masses of 
homebrewers participating in the Brew-In.

Old Foghorn on draught at the brewery was a nice way of mellowing out from 
the 2 big mugs of coffee drank on the way up to that early-in-the-day event.

[The foregoing may or may not represent the position, if any, of my employer, ]
[ who is identified solely to allow the reader to account for personal biases.]
[This article was written & posted  during the daily period called lunch-time.]
                                              
Clay Phipps 
Intergraph APD: 2400#4 Geng Road, Palo Alto, CA 94303; 415/852-2327
UseNet (Intergraph internal): ingr!apd!phipps
UseNet (external): {apple,pyramid,sri-unix}!garth!phipps        EcoNet: cphipps


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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 90 17:53:21 MST
From: rdg
Subject: Newsgroup Question
Full-Name: Rob Gardner - Your Humble Administrator


> News statistics regularly show that the vast majority of articles are
> delivered in a day.  By the second day, 90-95% have reached their
> destination. 

Those stats are incredibly hard to believe. 

> Signal-to-noise ratio in a newsgroup is highly dependent upon the
> format and topic of the group.  The RISKS digest (comp.risks), which
> is gatewayed to a mailing list too, has the highest S/N ratio of *any* 
> newsgroup I've ever read.  Peter Neumann, it's moderator, would
> probably we willing to discuss the S/N ratio and moderator workload
> issues with you, if you're interested.

One thing you're overlooking is that the Homebrew Digest is *not*
moderated!! I do absolutely no editing of submissions to increase
signal-to-noise ratio. We can thank the submitters for the quality
here! Can any other unmoderated group claim such a high snr?

>    The only advantage I can see at all to converting would be to reduce
>    mail traffic at my site. 
> 
> That ignores the advantages readers/participants would get.

I haven't heard any complaints from the readers/participants. I
ignored those advantages because I didn't know of any.

Let's end this discussion. The people have spoken, and I hear them
saying leave it alone. (Should we have a vote?!?)  So I won't have
anything to do with newsgroups.  If somebody else wants to do it,
there's nothing I can do to stop it.  If the noise level increases too
much, then the digest will choke to death.

Rob

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Date: Thursday, 29 Nov 1990 09:08:06 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re:  Proportion of wheat

>From: CS_PAUL at gsbvxb.uchicago.edu (Paul Ford 312/702-0335)
>
>1) Proportion of Wheat in a Wiess Beer:
>
> [questions on how much wheat to use]

I am an extract brewer, but I made what I call an American Wheat
Beer this summer and loved it.  I used the Williams wheat extract
which I believe is 60% wheat and 40% barley.  Made a very nice
beer.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 90 10:31:27 -0500
From: dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Subject: travelling with home brew 

Thanks for all the comments on travelling, most were informative, and that
fiasco that Pete Soper put up with is almost funny.  Will Roger's pointed out
that "Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else."

The fact that some officials do not know the ruling leads me to ask:
Where is it written that it is OK?  Does anybody know?
Being armed with chapter and verse should be enough to smooth out any wrinkles.
But hey, I'm not worrying, I'll just get to the airport extra early in case of
a snag.

- --Danny

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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 90 08:25:47 PST
From: wicinski%winona.esd.sgi.com at SGI.COM
Subject: Re: Travelling with homebrew

Over the thanksgiving vacation i traveled back to DC with my last two
bottles of my Porter, and I can back with a friends two bottles of a
Bass Ale type concotion he was making. I had no problems both times,
and to me that was the least of my worries....

At times, i have gone to bars that sell local micro brews, bought cases
of beer, and then managed to get a good 12 pack into my backpack and
onto the plane with minimal of problems. 

Carry the Homebrew book with you. It's the best excuse if you're
carrying unmarked bottles. And relax, airport security is looking for
hyper paranoid terrorists, not relaxed homebrewers. attitude and
appearance is 90% of it. 

tim






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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 90 08:40:13 PST
From: wicinski%winona.esd.sgi.com at SGI.COM
Subject: Re: Portland Brew Pubs 

    	Portland Brewing Co. - A 4500 barrel plant, and one of my
    favorite.  They have some uniquie methods of brewing, talk to the
    Brew-master if you can, a soft-spoken, but very knowledgable person.
    They make:
    	Portland Ale
    	Oregon Dry
    	Timberline Ale
    	Grant's Ale (hmm, same name as a brewer in Washington, but
    		probably a different product)
    	Grant's Imperial Stout
    	Grant's Winter Ale

No, this the same brew as at the Grant's in Yakima, Washington. I've
asked them about that, and they said they received a liscence to brew the
stuff from Grant himself (?). Someone comes down regularly
(unannounced!) and checks the quality themselves. This is how i found
out about the brewery in Yakima three years ago. 

- -----
NewsGroups time: Everyone will put in there three cents about
signal/noise ratios, news software vs. mail software, people who don't
have news access, etc. etc. I easily can deal with most things, but i 
usually find people preferring mail as a happier medium. Most newsgroups
tend to have threads of messgaes that are longer and less interesting as
time goes on.

The main criteria for a newsgroup is that the person who runs the list
is getting hassled by "the man" to stop it, or no one wants to do it. 
Perhaps one way to lighten the load for the HP machines is to have
reflectors around the country to spread out the net traffic down. I'm
sure there's many a person who could volunteer some cpu time to this.
perhaps this is already being done.

i don't like newsgroups, but i dislike the snobbish anti-newsgroup attitude 
worse.  A monthly posting to rec.food.drink about homebrew-digest is a
good idea.

tim





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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 90 10:21:25 EST
From: Stephen D. Cohen <xybion!scohen at motown.allied.com>
Subject: Weiss.

In digest #546 Paul Ford asks...

>> 1) Proportion of Wheat in a Wiess Beer:
>> 
>> I'm a great fan of wiess beer and finally tried to brew one a few  weeks
>> ago  (my second all-malt brew).  I used 2# wheat malt and 7# barley malt
>> on the advice of my friendly neighborhood brew store owner.  Then I read
>> the blurb on the side of German import 4-pack Wiess beer (can't recall
>> the brand) which indicated that their beer was 70% wheat.  Seemed
>> surprisingly high to me.  My only other source on this is Papazian -- I
>> seem to recall his recipe uses a pound or two of wheat for a 5 gal
>> batch.   Anybody have an opinion to offer on this range of proportions?
>> What is the effect of varying the proportion of wheat malt in a weiss
>> beer?  Favorite recipes?  Is brewing wiess beer as an ale even
>> acceptable? (Haven't bottled my attempt yet.)

	Ah... The age old problem of shooting at a moving target.  As this
seems to have come up once or twice before, allow me to shed some light
on the subject of Weiss and Weizen.  

	In northern Germany, a Weiss (white) beer is produced using three
parts barley to one part wheat.  This is often refered to as a
Berliner Weisse and is a low gravity (8 degrees baling or 1.032) top
fermented beer that undergoes a second lactic fermentation.  The beer
is brewed warm (68F) and conditioned at the same sort of temperature.
It is a very fruity beer consumed (usually) during the summer months.
It is often drunk with a schuss (dash of rasbery syrup) or Waldmeister
(essence of woodruff).  It strikes me that all of the recipes in
TCJoHB are aimed at this style, though they leave out the lactic
fermentation (as most folks don't have a good source of pure
lactobacillus, presumably). 

	Weizenbiers (wheat beer), on the other had, are brewed in the south
of Germany.  These are high gravity (13 degrees balling or 1.052) top
fermented beers that are lightly hopped.  These beers are brewed with
somewhere between one third and three quarters malted wheat.  They are
fermented with a special yeast that is a combination of traditional
ale yeast and Saccharomyces delbrekia (sp?).  Wyeast produces just
such a yeast for the home brewer, though I don't have the number
handy.  The Suddeutche Weizen is often served with a slice of lemon
(the Mexicans Yuppies didn't invent it! :-)) to bring out the fruity
flavors of the Weizenbier.  Some brewers filter out the yeast from
their Weizenbier, but it is traditional to consume the beer with the
yeast, which imparts more fruity flavors to the taste.  In some
places, a canister (not unlike a squeeze mustard bottle) of yeast is
available so that you can *add* yeast to your beer should you so desire.

	I have brewed Weizenbier at home and had good results.  I am
an extract brewer (not enought space for all grain... yet!) and have
had good luck with both the Wyeast strain and the Ireks Arkady (sp?)
extract.  This is sold in 3 kilo containers and thus you may not want
to use a full container in a five gallon batch.

	Hope this helps.

					Steve.

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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 90 22:55:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Stephen Brent Peters <sp2q+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: help me start brewing!

My housemates and I have been thinking about starting to brew our own
beer for a while now and when my Dad asked me what I wanted for
christmas I saw my opportunity!

I've talked to some people here in Pittsburgh (I'm in school in
Pittsburgh, my Dad lives in Allentown) who homebrew so I have a good
idea of what I need, however I don't know where to tell my dad to go to
find brewing supplies near Allentown, PA.

so, if anyone knows of a reputable place near allentown, please reply!
also, if anyone wants to give me any advice on how to go about starting
this endeavor, I'd appreciate that too!

thnx,
Steve Peters
sp2q at andrew.cmu.edu
"You can ask me anything!"


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #547, 11/30/90
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