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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Crisp pilsner? ("David Houseman")
  pils ("Darrell G. Leavitt")
  Re: Crisp Pilsner (Doak Procter)
  Important Halifax Online Banking Alert ("Halifax Bank Of Scotland")
  Crisp pils [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] ("Williams, Rowan")
  RE: pils [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] ("Williams, Rowan")
  Re: pils mash temps [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] ("Williams, Rowan")


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Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:25:22 -0500
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Crisp pilsner?

Rowan,

In my opinion the key to crisp lagers is temperature control and VERY
careful avoidance of oxidation that may result in dull, caramel notes.   You
say "...lot of low alpha
acid Saaz pellets during a boil of at least 90 minutes..."  I'm not in favor
of that regime.  Hops have a lot of tannins.   Up to 25% or so of the
tannins in the finished product can come from hops.   So if not done
carefully, the result can be astringent harshness.    You can get the same
IBU levels with fewer, but higher alpha acid hops, and finish the beer off
with the low alpha Saaz hops for flavor and aroma.   This results in less
tannins (astringency) for the same IBU level.   Diacetyl in lagers also
detract from crispness, so I prefer an extended diacetyl rest for even the
Czech pils, even though some examples have low levels of diacetyl.   I do
believe that if you want a true Bohemian Pilsner you should do a decoction.
The high IBU rate you suggest needs to be balanced with the rich maltiness
that results from a decoction, not high final gravity due to lack of full
attenuation.  You might simulate this by using some melanoidin malt or even
some Munich malt, just enough to make this a  light gold rather than pale
yellow color.  Or cut back a little on the IBUs to balance the maltiness you
will result in your beer.

Good luck,

David Houseman




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Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 10:09:51 -0500 (EST)
From: "Darrell G. Leavitt" <leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: pils

Rowan;
 Your recipe is making me thirsty.
 The only thing that you did not mention, I believe, is the water.
 I suppose that you plan on using real soft water?
 Good morning.
Darrell



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Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:11:12 +0000 (GMT)
From: Doak Procter <doak at procter.com>
Subject: Re: Crisp Pilsner

Rowan,<br /><br />You certainly are on the right track!&nbsp; However, you 
should reconsider your decision not to decoct the batch.&nbsp; Decoction is
 a significant part of the flavor profile of these beers, and you will find
 it is well worth the effort.&nbsp; I double decoct my Bohemian Pilsner 
(protein --&gt; beta amylase; beta --&gt; alpha amylase).&nbsp; A five-minute 
boil is plenty for the decoction, and you may even want to only bring the 
decoction for a moment on the protein --&gt; beta step so that your protein 
rest does not go too long.<br /><br />I find that mild decoction character 
actually accentuates the crispness of the lager by giving a bit extra depth
 and dimension.<br /><br />You are absolutely right about the dextrose, 
too.&nbsp; Keep that stuff far away from your Pilsner!&nbsp; A little Carapils
 is fine, though.&nbsp; Balance, yeast, noble hops, and lagering are the 
keys.<br /><br /><br />Doak<br /><br />
<div class="replyBody">
<blockquote class="email_quote" style="border-left: 2px solid #267fdb; 
margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 1.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br />Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009
 11:06:23 +1100<br />From: "Williams, Rowan" &lt;Rowan.Williams at 
ag.gov.au&gt;<br />Subject: Crisp pilsner? [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]<br /><br />G'day 
all,<br />I'm doing some homework ahead of brew day and I want to brew up a 
fresh,<br />Crisp, hop driven Czech pils.<br /><br />My 3 step mantra on all
 lagers is fresh ingredients, temperature control and<br />patience!  But 
what about those lovely crisp Czech style pilsners?  Is it all<br />about 
fresh Saaz hops or is there more to it?<br /><br />I plan on sticking to a 
basic grist of Weyermann Pils malt, and as for hops<br />I'll use fresh Saaz 
pellets.  I like Wyeast 2000 so that will be stepped up to<br />a decent 
sized starter, in advance and I will ferment at 9 degrees C.  I will<br 
/>also lager in kegs in the back of  the fridge for a couple of months.  This<br
 />strain is a joy to use and its my lager equivalent of US-05 for ales,<br
 />although the wait of anything up to 5 days after pitching is not for 
the<br />feint hearted!!<br /><br />I want a straw pale lager so I'll avoid 
any other malt additions, nor do I<br />plan on decocting the mash. But what 
about the crisp, fresh flavours that<br />this style of beer is so well 
known for?<br /><br />I'm thinking of around 45 to 50 IBUs of bitterness which
 is a lot of low alpha<br />acid Saaz pellets during a boil of at least 90 
minutes to cut down on the DMS.<br />What other tricks are there that keep 
the beer fresh, crisp and dare I say, dry?<br />Surely it's not dextrose 
that does it?<br /><br />Any hints on making a fresh, crisp, pale Czech 
pilsner would be appreciated.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />Rowan<br />- 
- ---------------------------------------------------- <br /><br /></blockquote>
</div>

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Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:59:52 -0800
From: "Halifax Bank Of Scotland"<security-email at halifax.co.uk>
Subject: Important Halifax Online Banking Alert


 
<p dir="ltr"><font style="font-size: 19pt"

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Information</b></font>
<p><font color="black">Halifax Online Security Service has suspended

your online

banking

access. This could be due to the following reasons:<br><br>-You may

be

logging in from a different computer<br>-You may have recently

changed

your computer settings<br>-Due to multiple log-in attempt error on

your

account<br><br>Once you've correctly answered the security

questions below, we'll be able<br> to identify with you
<br> <br>*You must complete these items
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<br><br>A handy guide will be delivered to you in the next few days,

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Scotland No. SC327000. Registered Office: The Mound, 

Edinburgh, EH1 1YZ.


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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 09:09:24 +1100
From: "Williams, Rowan" <Rowan.Williams at ag.gov.au>
Subject: Crisp pils [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Hi David,
Thanks for the excellent advice - I've managed to vastly improve
my pre-boil process and so I'll be working hard to avoid pre-boil
oxidation.  Agree that the bittering regime is risky,  especially if I
use low A/A Saaz.  What sort of bittering hop would you recommend?
Pearl/Hallertau?  Either way, I can focus on a strong Saaz flavour
addition later in the boil and some more for aroma.  Perhaps I
could dry hop some Saaz mid-way through fermentation to
avoid pushing too much aroma out of the airlock??

I wonder if a low temp mash (circa 63C) would do in lieu of a decoction?
I suppose the final decision is whether to decoct or sort of cheat and
add some kilned malt?

Cheers,
Rowan

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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 09:16:43 +1100
From: "Williams, Rowan" <Rowan.Williams at ag.gov.au>
Subject: RE: pils [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

G'day Darrell,
Although we don't have a lot of it, our water here in Canberra ia
quite soft!

At a glance:
pH = 90% of values between 7.5 and 8.5  pH units
Alkalinity (total)  35.8  mg/L as CaCO3
Colour (true)  2.38  Pt-Co units
Turbidity  0.47  NTU
Fluoride  0.91  mg/L
Total Hardness  39.6  mg/L as CaCO3
Iron  0.033  mg/L
Manganese  0.010  mg/L
Aluminium  0.033  mg/L
Copper  0.018  mg/L
Lead  0.0004  mg/L

Cheers,
Rowan
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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:31:39 +1100
From: "Williams, Rowan" <Rowan.Williams at ag.gov.au>
Subject: Re: pils mash temps [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Mea Culpa!

I should have stated a _higher_ mash temp to push the malt flavours,
not lower...

Cheers,
Rowan
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