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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  RE: Peanut Porter ("David Houseman")
  Re: Water (mossview5)
  Broolyn Malted Barley Appreciation Soc  (anyone reading) ("Mark E. Perkins")
  Vienna Water Profile (mossview5)


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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:07:00 -0500
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Peanut Porter

Darrell,

I have judged several peanut butter beers and made one.   When I talked to 
the brewers they just added regular peanut butter at the end of the boil. 
I did the same.   Odd as it seems the oil did not prevent head retention or 
cause any problems.   So if you have a powder that has even less oil, I'd 
add at the end of the boil.   If you wanted to degrade proteins you'd have 
to do the appropriate protein rest in the mash and it's not clear (someone 
may know) which temperature would be best for peanuts.  Then figure out the 
impact on the malt for that protein rest and the beer you're making.   My 
advice is last 15 minutes of the boil.

Dave




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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:51:22 -0500
From: mossview5 <mossview5 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Water

Bill Keiser posted a misconception that might confuse brewers.

Reverse Osmosis treated water can have low levels of ions that
are important to yeast health.  He is correct in stating that RO
water can be too pure.

But an important distinction is that a charcoal filter (activated carbon)
does not alter the ion content of the water.  Activated carbon can
adsorb or dissociate a number of compounds, but it does not
alter the ionic content of the water.  His apparent success in
brewing with RO water did not hinge on his use of a
charcoal filter.

The primary ion needed for good yeast health is calcium.
Calcium is removed fairly well by the RO membrane.  It can be
necessary to add calcium in the form of gypsum, chalk, or
calcium chloride to RO treated water in order to restore the
calcium content to the desired range of 50 to 100 ppm.

Martin Brungard
Indianapolis, IN


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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:03:19 -0500
From: "Mark E. Perkins" <perkinsm at bway.net>
Subject: Broolyn Malted Barley Appreciation Soc  (anyone reading)

If anyone from the Malted Barley Appreciation Society (Brooklyn, NY) is
reading HBD, could you contact me off list, please?  I sent email to the
addresses I could find on the MBAS web page, but have had not replies.

Thanks
Mark


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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:35:24 -0500
From: mossview5 <mossview5 at gmail.com>
Subject: Vienna Water Profile

It has come to my attention that the water profile typically cited for Vienna
is significantly in error.  The ionic concentrations are typically reported as:

Ca = 200 ppm
Mg = 60
Na = 8
Cl = 12
SO4 = 125
HCO3 = 120

>From what I can gather, the original source for that water profile was
Noonan's New Brewing Lager Beer.  Noonan did not provide a
reference for that water profile and I'm afraid we can't ask him
about it now. RIP.

There are a number of errors in this profile.  Most importantly, the
cation/anion balance is totally out of whack.  Even if the bicarbonate
is relabeled as carbonate, the balance does not work out.

The next error is that the hardness level is astronomic compared to
the current and historic water data for Vienna.  A bit of history is
appropriate here.

The original water source for Vienna was groundwater wells.
In the early 1800's, the city relied on a well field along the Danube
River.  In 1841, the first aqueduct was completed to supply water to the city.
That water came from alpine watersheds that were karstic (limestone).
So, it is expected that even the alpine runoff has some Ca and Mg
with its resulting hardness.

Sadylmeyer created the Vienna lager in 1841.  Its reasonable to estimate
that the water used to create that beer was either alpine or Danube
River water.

Reviewing the current Vienna water supply quality data, it is apparent
that the water hardness is much lower than Noonan reported.  Vienna
gets its water from a variety of sources.  There are now two aqueducts
and two groundwater sources.  As expected, the alpine aqueduct
water is softer than the groundwater sources.

Interestingly, one of the City's current water sources is a well field
located along the Danube River (similar to the early 1800's).  So, one
can assume that the current water quality reported for that well field
is similar to the water supply available prior to 1841.

As you should know, hardness is not the only thing brewers must
concern themselves with.  Alkalinity is also a factor.  From the Vienna
water quality data, it appears that the alkalinity is also relatively high.
This produces a Residual Alkalinity value that is fairly high (+150)
which would require control measures to produce an amber beer.

>From the data that I have collected, it appears that the Vienna water
profile should be considered to be the following:

Ca = 75 ppm
Mg = 15
Na = 10
Cl = 15
SO4 = 60
HCO3 = 225
Total Hardness = 249 ppm as CaCO3
Alkalinity = 186 ppm as CaCO3
Residual Alkalinity = 149

This water may still require alkalinity control measures to produce a
good amber beer.  Did Sadylmeyer conduct an acid rest when he
formulated the original Vienna lager?

I look forward to any comments on these findings.  The revised
water profile more closely mimics the harder of the Vienna water
sources.  This profile is also easily replicated with typically
available mineral additions.

Martin Brungard
Indianapolis, IN


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