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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Brix/Plato/SG ("A. J. deLange")
  Brix ("A.J deLange")
  berliner weisse (rgriller)


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Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 10:33:00 -0400
From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Brix/Plato/SG

Jim tried to post this without success:

Thanks (as always) A.J. for the detailed explanation. Trying to find an 
answer when I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for can be a challenge,
but when someone addresses a specific question with a specific answer 
and a detailed "here's why" it makes it much easier to comprehend.

Fortunately, it doesn't look like I've broken my well-worn copy of 
ProMash. What I was reporting were the raw wort readings in Brix and the 
corresponding SG
values. But, in ProMash a Brix of 6.0 doesn't necessarily equal 6.0 
Plato, which is why I wasn't showing SG = 1.02369. However, when I enter 
a Brix value of
6.24 (to "correspond" to 6.0 Plato), it displays SG=1.02370 (close enough!).

It appears as if the relationship 1.04*Plato = Brix is a constant  since 
9P = 9.36B and 12P = 12.48B produce the desired SGs, but this is just
the default ProMash Brix correction factor, which in practice would 
depend on the actual instruments being used, right?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
The conversion factor between Plato and Brix is 1.00000. Balling, Brix 
and Plato all strove to do the same thing: find the desnity of a sucrose 
solution of given concentratiion. 10 Balling, 10 Brix and 10 Plato all 
mean the same thing: a sucrose solution 100 grams of which contains 10 
grams of sucrose. The differences are in the densities they measured for 
those solutions. The Kaiser launched the Normal-Eichungskommission in 
order to correct errors in the Brix/Balling tables in the 5th and 6th 
decimal places. We'll take comments on the Teutonic love of precision as 
read.

I just found a table of Brix vs. relative density at 
http://www.davidberryman.co.uk/technical/density/. On another page on 
their site they make it clear that "relative density" means 20C/20C and 
so, for a given relative density, a Brix value from that table is 
directly comparable to a Plato value taken from the ASBC table or 
polynomial. If I do that and compute the difference between Plato and 
Brix the differences for individual points the rms difference 
corresponda to about 0.000027 units of specific gravity, i.e. in the 
fifth decimal place. But it is clear from looking at a plot of the 
differences that the  errors are mostly due to quantization and this is 
to be expected as the Berryman table is only given to 4 decimal places. 
The mean error is 0.00077 Plato which corresponds to 0.000003 SG units 
i.e. the mean error is in the 6th decimal place. I conclude, therefore, 
that at some time in the past the fruit juice industry adopted the Plato 
tables and that the 2 scales are the same.

I'll note that I did find 2 errors in the table (over the range of the 
ASBC table which is as far as I went). In one case 2 values separated by 
0.1 Brix (the increment in which the table is give) had exactly the same 
relative density value assigned. In the other case a density was given 
as being lower than the density of the entry preceding it which is 
clearly an error. I "fixed" both those errors before doing the 
comparison (by linear interpolation). I'm sure they are data entry 
errors and not parts of the official Brix table (if there is such a 
thing and there probably is).

Thus, there is still something fishy with ProMash.


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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 12:00:47 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Brix

Ah, I finally get it. This is a factor to be used with a  
refractometer. That makes sense. So I feel a little foolish because  
looking at the way the instructions are written I can smell A.J. in  
there.  Can't say I remember it though.

Cheers, A.J.




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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 13:22:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: rgriller at chass.utoronto.ca
Subject: berliner weisse

please do post the complete recipe, Thomas. I've been to Berlin a number
of times and myself often drink it ohne Schuss -- I like the sourness. How
sour does yours turn out? I've done the lactofermentation before and never
gotten the level of sourness I wanted (probably need to leave the
lactic-bacteria fermenting longer before introducing the yeast), so
perhaps a sour mash would be the way to go if it gets a good intense
sourness!

Robin


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