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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re: Keg Cleaning ("Mike O'Brien")
  RE: Cleaning Kegs ("David Houseman")
  RE: Cleaning Kegs ("Mike Patient")
  Re: OK to store kegs with Starsan? (Calvin Perilloux)
  Just checkin in (Neitzke Arnold)
  RE: Cleaning Kegs ("Keith Christian")


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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 04:59:35 +0000 (UTC)
From: "Mike O'Brien" <mobrien315221mi at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Keg Cleaning


Keith
I assume you are talking about brewing kettles.
Brewing vessels are the vessels that are used to boil 
the beer before it goes into the fermnters.

Not much lives through the boiling process. If you have
enough of something (scorch) that will impart a flavor 
in the finished beer you need to clean it out. If you have
a residue from brewing - mineral deposits - stain from 
dark grain - it could be cleaned but will probably not 
change the flavor of your beer.

Now your fermenters are a whole nother issue! They should
be physically cleaned! and sanitized! 
if you want to make good beer.

Mike O'Brien
BrewGyver
734-637-2532


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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 07:38:18 -0400
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Cleaning Kegs

Keith,

Oxyclean is a good cleaner.  IMHO PBW is better.  But neither are 
sanitizers.  So following cleaning I use either StarSan or Iodophor to 
sanitize.   You might want to consider an caustic cleanser to remove the 
beerstone then neutralize with an acid.   You can do that every year or so, 
not necessary, IMO, after each use.

David Houseman



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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:54:17 -0400
From: "Mike Patient" <mpatient at rta.biz>
Subject: RE: Cleaning Kegs

I don't know what others do to clean their kegs, but I have a hassle free
way of cleaning my kegs (along with carboys).  
I only use 5 gallon corny kegs, and when the beer is done, I disconnect the
hoses, rinse out the keg (sometimes hit it with a mild soap, to remove hop
debris and yeast), and fill it with about a gallon of 5-star.
Most of the time the yeast isn't dried to the side, or nothing is stuck
because it is a wet environment.    
After I shake it up and it has sat for a few minutes, I connect it back up
to the lines and push the 5-star thorough the system.  
After the lines run clean, I disconnect it.  
At this point there is about 3/4 of a gallon of 5-star in it.  
I'll hit it with a little pressure, so it gets the 5-star inside the dip
tube.  
I store this until I need to use it again.

This can work for carboys too, but I give them a little more cleaning with
the brush to make sure nothing is on it.  
When it's ready, you don't even need to sanitize, as it should be air-locked
when the sanitizer is in it.

Hope this helps
Mike




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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:25:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OK to store kegs with Starsan?

Brett asks about storing Starsan in kegs...

> I ran all of the Starsan through the faucets until 
> they were foaming and spitting. Is it ok to leave it
> like this for an extended period? I probably won't be
> able to brew for a little while so they'll sit empty.
> Any harm to leave this acidic solution on the keg's
> rubber gaskets and the faucet's inner workings?

It sounds like you have run it through so that the kegs are 
practically empty, right?  That should be no problem.  The 
amount of Starsan that you have in there is quite small and 
will be innocuous.  Once it does get diluted by beer eventually, 
the phosphoric acid, DDBSA, etc. will have zero effect on yeast 
or anything else at the new, diluted, high pH, and it will be 
chomped on by yeast at that point and degraded. 
 
Keep in mind that leaving a keg full of Starsan (that was made 
with tap water) can be problematic because depending on the water
chemistry, you can get precipitate.  I know I get that with the
modestly hard water from my well.  IIRC it's a soap type substance
forming from the calcium in the water and the DDBSA.  But only a
full keg; I haven't ever noticed any film from this with the tiny
bit left from a process like you did where very little remained.

You can, however, store Starsan indefinitely in a keg if you
mixed it using distilled water.  I've done this in smaller jugs,
and it's no problem because there's no precipitate; the Starsan
remains just as good as the day you mixed it.  As for pH effects
on the keg, I'm not sure how the acid/pH in mixed Starsan compares
to that of Pepsi syrup, but the kegs were designed to contain
an acidic product.

By the way, Brett, I copied you directly this and also copied
Homebrew Digest.  The traffic over there is low, but signal-to-
noise is very good, and with the imminent demise of TechTalk,
you might consider posting out there sometimes to see what
responses you get.  Despite what looks like little activity,
there are some very knowledgeable people there ready to jump in
and answer your questions.

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA



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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:09:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Neitzke Arnold <aneitzke at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Just checkin in

Summer is hot here in Michigan, about 92 degrees right now but I need to brew 
since I am out of beer!


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 18:07:09 -0700
From: "Keith Christian" <keithchristian at roadrunner.com>
Subject: RE: Cleaning Kegs

Hi Dave,

I use Oxyclean, because it is available.  For sanitizing, I usually put a
gallon of water in the kettle and bring it to a boil.  I let it set for a
while and  drain it off.  I often will use that keg for a fermentor and rack
the beer to glass secondaries..

What caustics and acids do you use and what would a cleaning regiment look
like?  I would like to give it a try.

Usually I would heat up a keg, recirculate the water with Oxyclean and
rinse.  Would you do it differently with the caustic and acid?  What do you
do with the chemicals after it has been used?  It seems a bit caustic to
pump into the gutter or drain.

I have 3 kegs with ss false bottoms, brass fittings, and a pump.  I
recirculate the cleaner on each keg and transfer it to the next keg using
silicone tubing.  Will the caustic be safe to use with brass and silicone
tubing?


Thanks, I can't wait to brew!  It has been way too long.

Keith



- -----Original Message-----
From: David Houseman [mailto:david.houseman at verizon.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 4:38 AM
To: post at hbd.org; Keith Christian
Subject: RE: Cleaning Kegs


Keith,

Oxyclean is a good cleaner.  IMHO PBW is better.  But neither are 
sanitizers.  So following cleaning I use either StarSan or Iodophor to 
sanitize.   You might want to consider an caustic cleanser to remove the 
beerstone then neutralize with an acid.   You can do that every year or so, 
not necessary, IMO, after each use.

David Houseman




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