---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Brewpubs in Denver/Boulder (Dick Dunn)
  RE: Stainless Boiler (John C. Van Hove)
  Coffee in homebrew (Jon Binkley)
  Digest #573 (rdg)
  Gas Burners ("MR. DAVID HABERMAN")
  Recipie Archives (lutzen)
  road trip ("CAE2::FALOUIS")
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #577 (February 06, 1991) (Jim Garlick)
  Gusher again (Jeff Chambers)
  odd smell (Seth Adam Eliot)
  The recipe file is ready! (Lynn Gold)
  Beer with honey (chip upsal)
  Homebrewed Wort chiller (Norm Hardy)
  EKU-28 ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  SN yeast culture (Russ Gelinas)
  Cheap Chillers (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Re: Crackin grain ("st. stephen")
  Priming Question... (James Kolasa)
  Search for Large Stainless Boiler (Don McDaniel)
  Solving boilover (BAUGHMANKR)
  uncappable domestic champagne bottles (jonm)
  Re: Homemade Wort Chillers ?  (wicinski)
  Steam beers (SU0751A)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 6 Feb 91 00:55:05 MST (Wed)
From: ico.isc.com!rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: Re: Brewpubs in Denver/Boulder

Jon Binkley writes:
> In response to Mark Castleman's query, Denver and Boulder each have one
> brewpub.

While I disagree with some other points of Jon's, I have to give him credit
for following the advice some of us have been giving about Boulder for a
while--namely "forget Boulder Brewery!" (which he did, completely...'nuff
said there:-).

> The Walnut Brewery in Boulder is currently *THE* chic spot in Boulder.

That may change.  Cheer up, Jon...maybe a few yuppies will learn about
decent beer in the process.  Nothing stays popular with yuppies for too
long; they have an attention span seldom reaching a year for anything like
this.  The brewery is repaying loans and making money...which a lot of new
brewpubs never do.

> There is always a line outside to get in.  It is where the beautiful
> people go to be seen.  Once inside you get to pay a lot for food
> and drink beer which is quite chilled and quite carbonated.

I haven't had to wait much.  If they're getting that much business, so much
the better...I'd like to see them rewarded compared to Boulder Brewery
because their beer is a lot better.  I've been there and I ain't beautiful
people!  The beer is colder than it needs to be, but hardly the maltsicles
you get at some bars.  To my tastes the carbonation is almost right.  (I'm
not arguing with Jon so much as offering another opinion.)  Some of the
food is good; some is admittedly yuppie-silliness.  (duck enchiladas?
gimme a break!)  They'll sort that out as long as they keep making good
beer.

The bitter is the best of the lot.  Buffalo Gold is good for warm weather
or wimpy companions.  Forget the wheat.  The brown and the stout are OK.

> While also very popular, you can usually at least get through the
> door of the Wynkoop Brewery in downtown Denver...

And that's not Yuppieville???  A few blocks down from the financial
district?

>...The food is decent and reasonably priced...

They need to figure out fish'n'chips...which is *not* supposed to be
grease'n'batter with a side of starch.  They also need a source of bangers
that taste like bangers.  Generally the food is good, but they have some
notable weak points.

>...They have a full range of beers, my favorites
> being the Bitter and IPA, both served from hand-pumps...

They certainly manage a good set of adequately-hopped beers in English
style (which some would call "warm and flat" but which connoisseurs will
recognize as "cellar temperature and moderately carbonated":-).  Beyond
having a very good set of beers and good food, the Wynkoop is of real
interest to homebrewers for the particular reason that Russ Scherer (?sp?),
the brewmaster, got into this whole thing after winning Homebrewer of the
Year at the AHA annual some years ago.  (Is Darryl going down a similar
path?:-)  It's a success story where a lot of brewpubs have done poorly
because (occasionally) they couldn't make good beer or (far more often)
they couldn't see the difference between homebrewing and running a
business.

O,BTW...it's pronounced wine-coop, which can save you two rube-points when
you go there.
 ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at raven.eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd


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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 91 09:46:13 EST
From: vanhovej at LONEX.RADC.AF.MIL (John C. Van Hove)
Subject: RE: Stainless Boiler



> I used my Coleman "Powerhouse" white gas camp stove for a batch or 2.
> It was much better than the electric stove, but didn't  feel it was
> designed to run that hot, that long. So I sprung for ?35,000 btu cast
> iron propane burner and lived happily ever after. I think they go for
> around $70 now, well worth it.

I have been looking for one of these for quite a while now and as soon
as I can commit some space in my basement or garage (too many projects
going at any given time) I plan on moving out of the kitchen.  That
should make my wife happy!  Your guess of 35000 BTU is right on and I've
watched one of those things bring a double batch of Rocky Raccoon (12
gallons) to a boil in no time flat.  My father has been using that
burner for a year or so now and he can get his 12 gallons to boil faster
than I can with the 3 or 4 gallons that I usually use.  I checked around
town a bit and found that I can get one from the local welding supply
shop for about $45.  I think I'll grab one when I go down there to get
the CO2 tank for my new kegging setup.  Wish me luck!

VH


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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 91 07:51:20 -0700
From: Jon Binkley <binkley at beagle.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Coffee in homebrew


Has anyone used coffee to flavor a porter or stout?

How much should one add for a 5 gallon batch?  How fine should
the beans be chopped/ground?

Thanks in advance,
Jon Binkley
binkley at boulder.colorado.edu


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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 91 10:47:41 MST
From: rdg
Subject: Digest #573
Full-Name: Rob Gardner - Pro Hacker


The archiver now contains digest #573 for those of you that missed it.
Sorry that I cannot respond to individual requests for back issues.
BTW, there are more than 1000 subscribers now on the main mailing
list.

Rob

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Date: 6 Feb 91 08:47:00 PDT
From: "MR. DAVID HABERMAN" <habermand at afal-edwards.af.mil>
Subject: Gas Burners

In Digest #576 Don McDaniel saays:

>is a standrd stockpot that will cover only one burner.  I've found
>in my 16 qt. partial mashes that it takes an eternity to bring that
>volume to a boil.  I can't imagine getting seven gallons to a boil
>with only one burner.

I don't know of anyone that uses their kitchen stove for mashing since, as you
noticed, it takes too long.  I know several people who use gas water heater
burners.  You can probably get them for free from people throwing out dead
water heaters.  Most of the time they get replaced due to water leaks and the
burners are fine.  They put out about 35,000 to 40,000 BTU which is fine for
bringing 5-7 gallons to a boil.  I am looking for a 100,000 BTU burner to use
for 15 gallons.  You could hook it into the gas line for your clothes dryer in
the garage or basement or maybe in the kitchen.  I think you can also get some
parts to make them work with propane.

 -
David A. Haberman
Email: habermand at afal-edwards.af.mil
Benny's Bait Shop and Sushi Bar - "Today's Bait is Tomorrow's Plate!"


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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 91 12:51:44 CST
From: lutzen at phys1.physics.umr.edu (lutzen)
Subject: Recipie Archives


To all who are wanting or working on the Recipe Archives:

This is a little project I've been working on in my spare time (very
little of, that is).  I have made some major headway in achieving this
goal in the last few days, but if other people are interested in this
project and have some work done or would like to help, there is no 
reason why we could not work together.  I sent a note to Bob Whitehead
about this, but have not heard back from him.  So here is a suggestion:

   I will finish up the extractions from the archives, and will
   share my files with those who wish to reformat them into the
   various file formats of their own desire.  However, (here's 
   the gotcha), the only thing I ask is for people to E-MAIL me
   direct.  (I can't believe am putting myself in front of the
   target like this. Oh well, I'll just have a homebrew.)

Anyone who is interested in assisting, editing, CONTRIBUTING RECIPIES,
etc., please E-MAIL me direct at:


Karl Lutzen                                lutzen at apollo.physics.umr.edu
University of Missouri - Rolla             c0537 at umrvmb.umr.edu
Physics Dept.                              314-341-6317
					   (in order of decreasing preference)

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Date: 6 Feb 91 13:06:00 EDT
From: "CAE2::FALOUIS" <sdrc!falouis%cae2.decnet%cae19 at uunet.UU.NET>
Subject: road trip


a friend and i are going to be taking a road trip from cincinnati to san diego
around the third week of march.  along the way we will be going thru 
indianapolis, st.louis, kansas city, denver on i-70 and las vegas on i-15.
any info on interesting brew type places along the way would be highly 
appreciated.

thanks in advance,

bill hull


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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 91 14:16:34 PST
From: Jim Garlick <garlick at ecst.csuchico.edu>
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #577 (February 06, 1991)

thanx!

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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 91 12:19:43 CST
From: motcid!red!chambers at uunet.UU.NET (Jeff Chambers)
Subject: Gusher again

Thanks to all who responded to the gusher problem.

From those inputs, I have deduced that the most likely cause for
gushing in my case is due to Premature Bottling.  Going back over
my notes I was in a bit of a hurry (Not Relaxing mind you) to bottle
this batch before the Christmas Holiday Season (seeing it is a 
Xmas beer).  This explains why the first few batchs didn't seem
to gush at all, while now it splews for a good 5 minutes.  I'm 
not ruling out an infection because Although I clean all the 
equipment thoroughly when I brew, I probably ought to give everything a good 
scrubbing.  Thanks again for your input.

Jeff Chambers
(uunet!motcid!chambers)

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Date: Wed,  6 Feb 91 22:16:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Seth Adam Eliot <se08+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: odd smell


This is only the third batch that I've brewed, but this is a first for
this problem.

The beer has an odd "sulfurous" smell.  I describe it as "sulfurous"
becuase of its similarity to the "rotten egg" sulfur compound smell.
(not nearly as strong or noxious though). 

The beer is a Mount Mellick brown ale, made using a hopped malt extract,
with some extra hops thrown in for good measure.  The smell was evident
when the beer was in the fermentor and has carried over to the bottled
and conditioned product.  

I don't know if it is truly a sulfur compound, and possibly caused by
sulfites (used liberally to clean all equipment and bottles), or exactly
WHAT it is.

any ideas?
 -Seth
   se08 at andrew.cmu.edu
    Carnegie-Mellon U.,   Pgh PA

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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 91 19:55:21 PST
From: figmo at mica.berkeley.edu (Lynn Gold)
Subject: The recipe file is ready!

It's in Unix mail format (that is, you can type "mail -f beer.txt" and
read individual entries).

It's read-protected and living on "eris.Berkeley.Edu" in the file
"/net/mica/eris/figmo/beer.txt" for your ftp'ing pleasure.

Enjoy!

- --Lynn

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Date: 06 Feb 91 23:56:49 EST
From: chip upsal <70731.3556 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Beer with honey

>Have any of you out there had any experience using honey in
>extract recepies?  What I had in mind was a mild Ale (say about
>4 pounds of DME) with between 1/2 and 1 pound of honey added
>to boost the alcohol content and give a dryer character.  Will
>this work well?  Will the fermentation take much longer than
>normal?

>Randy

Yes it does work well.  I have made light lager with one pound of honey
and 4 lbs extract.
It lightened the body and increased the achol.
Yes the fermentation did last a bit longer and the aging was slowed a
bit also.

Chip


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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 91 20:48:14 PST
From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Homebrewed Wort chiller

I've been using a homemade copper coiled immersion wort chiller for 3
years with great results.  The main expense is the copper and some copper
welding, if you want to get fancy.  Just take care how you wrap it.  3/8
inch seems a good diameter to use, although others may find success in
larger sizes.  

Norm Hardy


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Date: 7 Feb 91 10:11:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: EKU-28

About seven years ago, when I lived in Southern California, I used to have 
a beer at a German restaurant called EKU-28.  It was about 13 or 14% 
alcohol.  I don't know if it even was technically a beer, but I liked it at 
the time.  (I don't know if I still would).  I have tried to find it since 
and meet with stares and blank expressions.  I know it wasn't a fig newton 
of my imagination, but I sure can't find it or anyone who has ever heard of 
it out here in New England.

Am I mentally deranged, or is/was there such a thing as EKU-28.  If so, is 
it still made, or can it be approximated at home?

Dan


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Date:    Thu, 7 Feb 1991 11:44:38 EST
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: SN yeast culture


Chris S. had a problem with culturing SN yeast.  I've also tried to 
culture it (3 times), also with no luck.  I'm in New Hampshire, and had 
also wondered if being on the Right coast was the problem.  With his 
posting I'm more convinced that the trip back east is too much for the 
yeast (pardon the rhyme). I've also noticed that the yeast in *my* SN 
bottles is not necessarily pasted to the bottom of the bottle (it's mostly 
on the bottom, but loosely), which is in disagreement with what people on the 
list have said about *their* bottles having a solid bottom mass of yeast.  
This may also be an indication of travel-weariness.  In any event, I've given 
up on culturing it.  

I have cultured a Wyeast strain from a batch I had brewed in May 1990, so
I know it (culturing) can be done, but apparently not with SN yeast
back east.

Russ Gelinas

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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 91 11:34:37 PST
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at decwrl.dec.com>
Subject: Cheap Chillers

In HOMEBREW Digest #577, the celebrated Bill Thacker inquired:

> I've seen ads for immersion wort chillers; priced under $30, as I
> recall.  But it looked to me like they were nothing more complicated than
> a coil of copper tubing with a hose clamped on each end and a faucet
> fitting on one hose.  Seems like that would be easy to make at home
> for under ten bucks.  Am I missing something important ? (Like, oh,
> say, "copper and homebrew react to form an unstable fissionable
> compound." 8-)

	... and the world, as we know it, will collapse into the
Void.  I've seen those ads too, and they remind me that quantity
pricing is a wondrous thing.  In my area, the going rate for a 50'
roll of 3/8" soft copper tubing is in the near vicinity of $20, even
at the "warehouse" stores.  Add a compression fitting on each end,
with a 3/8"-male-pipe-to-1/4"-female-pipe bushing and a 1/4" hose
barb, and you're in the $25 range before you've even looked at the
plastic tubing or the Gilmore fitting or whatever you choose to use.
I've never tried just clamping to the copper, for fear of leaks.

This type of chiller is indeed easy to make, and easy to use.  I
believe it to be a Good Thing(tm) to have, but you might as well
make it rather than buy it, especially if you have a cheaper source
than I do for copper tubing.  The first one I made used 100' of 1/4"
tubing, and looked like a potful of spaghetti, when in use.  My
present one, using 50' of 3/8" tubing, chills faster but uses more
water.

A note concerning maintenance of immersion chillers:  with my first
one, I made only a token effort to get the water out of the coils
after use, because it wasn't easy, and because, after all, that
water would never touch the beer, would it?  Then we had an
unusually hard freeze, and the chiller burst in many places ...

= Martin A. Lodahl   Pac*Bell Minicomputer Tactical Planning/Support =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 91 12:49:30 EST
From: sct60a.sunyct.edu!sct60a.sunyct.edu!yagerk at sct60a.sunyct.edu (Kevin Yager)


   To any of you who may be lucky enough to live in dairy country, I thought
I would let you in on a cheap piece of brewing equipment.  A milking machine.
Old milking machine pails are great.  They are usually stainless steel.  
Contain from 4 - 7 gallons.  Usually come with a sealable lid (though you    
may have to plug a few extra holes).  Best of all, since they are becoming
outdated as dairying equipment, a buyer may be able to buy 2 or 4 of them
for $20 at an auction.  

   I happen to have one (I've heard they are usefully distilling accessories)
when brewing my first batch of homebrew, so I had planned on using it for a 
priming pail.  Then I smashed my carboy.  So I used my milking machine for
a fermenter and baught a second to use for priming.

   Milking machine pails can be used on the stove, then don't break, and
they have sturdy handles.

                                            Kevin Yager
                                            yagerk at sct60a.sunyct.edu

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Date:         Thu, 07 Feb 91 13:37:01 EST
From: "st. stephen" <ST402836 at brownvm.brown.edu>
Subject:      Re: Crackin grain

Howdy,

>andy T. asked about cracking grains.  I just recently had to crack a
>couple of lbs. of crystal (my supplier was cleaning her mill).  I used
>a coffee grinder, after having cleaned out any coffee dust.  It is one
  <stuff deleted>
>will turn your grain into fine dust pretty quick if you're not careful.

   How fine are you supposed to crack the grain?  I understand that the
purpose is to expose the starchy inside to the water, but it seems you're
supposed to avoid crusing it to a dust.  Why?  To avoid sediment (ie.
so you can strain it out easier?)
    Any info would be much appreciated.

thanks,
steve

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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 1991 13:59:34 EST
From: James Kolasa <jkolasa at ms.uky.edu>
Subject: Priming Question...

I have a batch of pseudo-Imperial Stout ready to bottle and I discovered
last evening that I had no corn sugar (actually I discovered that my cat
had torn open the bag...this also explains the white powder all over her
nose, I had imagined the worst).  My question is, can I prime for bottling
using dry malt?  If so, how much should I use (I usually use 3/4 cup corn
sugar)?  I seem to remember mention of converting between corn sugar and
dry malt, but can't remember the rough amounts.  So, has anyone tried this?
Will it work?  I must know!  The Kolasabrau cannot wait!


         I know I know...."relax..."


                                 jk

- -- 
- --   James Kolasa                | Where do I get a nifty name like "Bell    --
- --   121 Moloney, L.C.C.         |              Biv Devoe"?!?!               --
- --   Lexington, Ky.  40506-0235  |                                           --
- --jkolasa at [ms.uky.edu/ukpr.uky.edu/UKMA.BITNET]  {rutgers,uunet}!ukma!jkolasa--

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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 91 16:20:27 -0700
From: dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu (Don McDaniel)
Subject: Search for Large Stainless Boiler

I'm giong to try one last time.

First, thanks to all who replied to my last post regarding
full boils and how one gets them to boil.  As you may recall,
I was looking for a source for a stainless bioler, 30-40 quarts,
which would straddle two (gas) stove burners.

The consensus was "bag it dude."  Most suggested getting a 36,000 BTU
propane burner which could be used outside or in the garage.  I
may have to resort to that but I'd rather not brew outside (although
I can see the advantage in the summer!) and my wife would be somewhat
unsupportive of another capital investment at this point (especially
as I am trying to con her into buying a used refridgerator for my 
brewing.  She doesn't like beer.)  My wife likes to exclaim "pennies
a beer... Hah! But I digress.

I'm certain that I recall a post a few monthe ago that someone found
Just the kettle I'm looking for.  I've looked through all my back issues
and cannot find it.  Please, if you're out there, e'mail me!

Finally, thanks to all of you on the net for leading me from rank
beginner back in August to seasoned veteran :-) now.  Without you
I wouldn't be having all this fun brewing now.

Don McDaniel
dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu


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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 1991 19:06 EST
From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
Subject: Solving boilover

A hint to prevent boilover from EVER happening again.

In case you've noticed, boil over only occurs at the very beginning of
the boil.  It appears to be a result of a protein "skin" that forms as
the wort heats to a boil.  When steam collects under this skin and comes
forth all at once, as it does once the boil begins, it blows a big wort
bubble all over creation.

I started skimming the wort of the creamy white head that forms as the
wort comes to a boil and have never had a boil over since.  

But doesn't this affect head retention on the beer, you say?

Nope.

Cheers,

Kinney Baughman                      |  Beer is my business and
baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu       |  I'm late for work.

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Date: Thu Feb  7 16:12:00 1991
From: microsoft!jonm at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: uncappable domestic champagne bottles

Advice to people who bottle in domestic champagne bottles:

Before accepting bottles into your collection (and de-labeling them,
sanitizing them, etc.), it's a good idea to check and see if they
will fit a cap.  I used to think they all were cappable, but I
recently encountered about 2 cases of Cook's champagne bottles which
have mouths which are slightly the wrong shape.  It seems to be just
this one batch of bottles ... I have a number of other Cook's bottles
which cap just fine.

(Fortunately I had enough other bottles to finish bottling the batch.)

You don't have to actually clamp a cap down to test whether it will
fit ... just see whether a cap can sit squarely on the mouth of the
bottle.

By the way, the beer was a version of Papazian's "Crystal Honey
Lager".  It's good!  I like the honey flavor ... first time I've tried
that.

Jonathan Mark	uunet!microsoft!jonm	[not speaking for my employer]


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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 91 19:14:52 PST
From: wicinski%winona.esd.sgi.com at SGI.COM
Subject: Re: Homemade Wort Chillers ? 

    I've seen ads for immersion wort chillers; priced under $30, as I
    recall.  But it looked to me like they were nothing more complicated than
    a coil of copper tubing with a hose clamped on each end and a faucet
    fitting on one hose.  Seems like that would be easy to make at home
    for under ten bucks.  Am I missing something important ? (Like, oh,
    say, "copper and homebrew react to form an unstable fissionable
    compound." 8-)

30 is pretty reasonable. i was quoted over 40, so i made mine for 20
with some bendable hose from the hardware store. it works OK, but not
great. then i realized i needed some washers for the hoses.

i think the wort chiller in the freezer is a good idea. i will try it
myself. i usually leave my batches sit overnite with a closed lid since
i usually have one too many homebrews while making it and get lazy.
anyone see problems with this (i haven't)?

tim    
    





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Date:     Thu, 7 Feb 91 23:09 CST
From: <SU0751A%DRAKE.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:  Steam beers

Greetings, HBDers!

        I'm not officially signed up on this list, but read it regularly
through my brewpartner (Mark Castleman, MC2331S at DRAKE).  We are interested in
making a steam beer, and toward that end have the following questions to pose
to the digest in general:

o Does anyone know of a mail-order house which sells Brewhouse extracts?

o Does anyone have an intermediate-level (malt extract, with a few other
  readily available ingredients) steam beer recipe that they'd like to share
  with us?

Thanks in advance . . .                         Sterling Udell
                                                Big Dog Brewing Cooperative
                                                SU0751A at DRAKE.BITNET or
                                                SU0751A at ACAD.DRAKE.EDU

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #578, 02/08/91
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