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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  making beer green (Dick Dunn)
  Re: Drum Tap (TSAMSEL)
  Aeration (Michael Zentner)
  Re: cornelius kegs (Chris Shenton)
  Re: The recipe file is ready! (Eric Engstrom)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #581 (February 18, 1991)  (burghart)
  Barleywine bottles? (Nick Thomas)
  Grain and Hops (Mary Jane Kelly)
  Large Canning Pots (Don McDaniel)
  3rd try ("David E. Husk")
  Re:  Hops (Spring is here!) (Bob Clark - Sun Engineering)
  Re: Mashing Temperatures (Brian Capouch)
  Oxygenating wort (Alan Edwards)
  Re: Large Enamel Pots (Brian Capouch)
  Cidering ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Keg pressure problems (James Dee)
  mash out (Ken Johnson)
  To Keg or not to Keg ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Large Boilers (Don McDaniel)
  High Final Gravity (Don McDaniel)
  Yeast -- culturing supplies? (Chris Shenton)
  kegging -- excessive foam and low carbonation (Chris Shenton)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: 18 Feb 91 11:19:56 MST (Mon)
From: ico.isc.com!rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: making beer green

[I see folks are getting started in time this year...usually we seem to
end up waiting 'til the first week in March.]

The usual bar method of making beer green for St. Patrick's Day is to put
a drop of green food coloring in the glass before drawing/pouring the beer.
This level of coloring doesn't work out well for homebrew colored before
bottling, 'cause something seems to latch on to the color and precipitate
it out.  I don't know just what grabs it, but I've seen a pale-green beer
with bottle sediment of a most amazing hue.  Also, given a homebrew with
substantial malt, hence good color, the green food coloring (weakened a
bit) with the gold of the beer gives a rather unpleasant (IMNHRNWO) color.

Several years ago, I made a batch of beer for a going-away party on 3/17, 
with which I attempted to produce multiple colors in one batch.  (The batch
was labeled "SPA" on the caps, allowing everyone to think it was "St. Pat-
rick's Ale", when in fact it stood for "strangely polychromatic ale.":-)
I left some bottles plain and added red, green, or blue coloring to various
others.  The red worked out OK, although I didn't use enough color and it
faded a bit, giving a result approximately like a darker amber ale.  The
green gave the aforementioned bile (vile?!) green.  The blue did best at
producing the shade of green I wanted; I'd suggest this basic (blue+gold)
=> green approach.

The color seems to continue fading with age.  That shouldn't be too much
of a problem since if you start today you'll only have a few weeks in
bottle/keg.
  ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at raven.eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd


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Date:    Tue, 19 Feb 1991 6:42:54 EST
From: TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV
Subject: Re: Drum Tap

  I may have fixed the EDME BREWKEG tap. After polishing of the keg of
SCUD bock (named for its exceedingly high carbonation due, I think to 
WYEAST 1007 {strange and sulphurous, beasties,they}), I dissasembled the
tap whlie still attached to said keg,, sterilized it and put a smidgen of
vaseline in the threads. I made sure that it did not touch the beer passage.
  I kept the keg full of H2O for a day in the fridge andto test, I tried the tap
(It works like a champ....for the time being)
  Now it's full of bitter/brown and I'll say more in about a week.
PS: At Richmond Brewers we were discussing WYEAST 1007 and came up with the
question "What would typify a German ale?"  We couldn't come up with
any regional or style type that would fit WYEASTs 1007 name?
   Bashon regardless, Ted

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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 91 08:36:17 -0500
From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Zentner)
Subject: Aeration


bryan at tekgen.bv.tek.com writes about stuck fermentations and aeration.

While I can't comment for sure on the first issue, it seems like a lot
of people go through a lot of unnecessary trouble to aerate their wort.
Prior to pitching, I remove the red spring loaded thing from my bottle
filler, sanitize the white plastic tube, and put it in the neck of the
carboy and just whip the heck out of the wort for a few minutes.  When
I'm done, there is usually a good 2-3 inch head of foam on top.  It 
seems when you whip the tube around, the fluid passing by the submerged
end of the tube causes air to be bubbled in to the point where you can
hear it.  Anyhow, it must work pretty well, because until recently, I
have been letting my wort sit overnight to cool (just built a chiller)
and I'm guessing that warm wort can drive off dissolved oxygen pretty
well.  I typically pitch a 12-18 oz starter made with a wyeast packet
in the morning, immediately after this aeration process.  Fermentation
will usually take off full blast within 8-10 hours, sometimes even
sooner.

This method seems to work better than just attemptimg to slosh stuff
around in the filled carboy and is easier than rigging up some bubbler
pump.

This will probably not work well with a 5 gallon filled primary.
I use a 6.5 gallon carboy, so there's a good amount of head space
to get up a good velocity on the tube.

Mike Zentner    zentner at ecn.purdue.edu


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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 91 10:21:07 EST
From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: cornelius kegs

>>>>> On Wed, 13 Feb 91 11:36:35 PST, hplabs!ardent!uunet!tc.fluke.COM!gamebird (Duane Smith) said:

Duane> 	Is there any tricks to replacing the input and output
Duane> 	valve assemblies on the kegs?

Naw -- just torque 'em off.


Duane> Do you use pipe thread tape on the treads to prevent leakage. I'm
Duane> also assuming that you can use a standard size wrench to remove
Duane> these.

*I* used pipe thread tape -- figured it had to help, and that Teflon
wouldn't hurt me or my beer, even if there were contact.

I have some problems getting at the thing with a box wrench because the
rubber boot/handle interfers with it.  So, I'm trying to locate a
socket (7/8", I think) which is deep enough to accept the valves and reach
the flat sides; not much luck, so far -- nothing deep enough, but perhaps a
spark-plug socket would work...

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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 91 09:36:32 CST
From: engstrom at src.honeywell.com (Eric Engstrom)
Subject: Re: The recipe file is ready!


In HOMEBREW digest # <some-such> figmo at mica.berkeley.edu (Lynn Gold) writes:

LG> It's in Unix mail format (that is, you can type "mail -f beer.txt" and
LG> read individual entries).

LG> It's read-protected and living on "eris.Berkeley.Edu" in the file
LG> "/net/mica/eris/figmo/beer.txt" for your ftp'ing pleasure.

LG> Enjoy!

I've tried FTPing this from the name above, but no luck.  I tried anonymous
login, but it complained.  Perhaps I should be loging-in with a real name and
some password?  If so, could you please reply and tell me what they are! 

Thanks, 
Eric.

p.s. could you include the numeric address?
+---------
Eric Engststrom, Honeywell SRC		   | 
Inter: engstrom at src.honeywell.com	   | [DISCLAIMER: 
UUCP:  {umn-cs,ems,bthpyd}!srcsip!engstrom |  My own opinions - 3.1415 = 
MAIL:  3660 Technology Drive, Mpls, MN     |           orgainically grown]
Phone: (612) 782-7318                      |

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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 91 09:14:04 -0700
From: burghart at stout.atd.ucar.EDU
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #581 (February 18, 1991) 


In HBD #581, Randy Tidd (rtidd at ccels3.mitre.org) asks about using green 
food coloring for a St. Patrick's day beer:

> I was going to add some green food coloring at priming time... would it stay
> in solution or sediment out? Do yeast like green food coloring? What is *in*
> green food coloring, anyway?

Well, my friends and I did exactly this about a week ago for our latest batch
of pale ale.  It takes a fair amount of food coloring to tint five gallons of
beer.  (I didn't measure it, but probably about 1/4 to 1/2 of one of those
tiny squirt bottles you get at the grocery store.)  The color we achieved was,
well, interesting.  It's more of a sludgy green than the typical
St.-Patrick's-Day-green-beer green.  The beer was named "Pond Scum" after we
saw the color.  On the positive side, it's still green, the yeasties are fine,
the beer carbonated well, and it tastes great.  I think it will go over fine
on St. Patrick's day.

If you want to shock your brother, beer like this should do it. :-)

Chris Burghart
burghart at ncar.ucar.edu
National Center for Atmospheric Research
Boulder, CO

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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 91 08:34:49 PST
From: nt at Eng.Sun.COM (Nick Thomas)
Subject: Barleywine bottles?



	I've called all over the West Coast trying
to find some 6 oz bottles for bottling my barleywine, and
can't find any.  Does anyone know of a source?

	Thanks,

 -nick

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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 91 12:01:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Jane Kelly <mk36+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Grain and Hops


Are there any suggestions out there for how to keep
unused Grains and Hops.  Should one keep them in
closed plastic bags at room temp. or in the
refrigerator or in the freezer.  Are there better
things to keep them in then plastic bags?
And how long will they keep?

Thanks in advance

Pete

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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 91 10:28:31 -0700
From: dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu (Don McDaniel)
Subject: Large Canning Pots

In HBD #582 Craig Flowers asks "where are the large enamel canning
pots"

As I'm the one who stirred all this talk up, I guess it's up to
me to summarize.

Craig asked about 36+ quart pots.  I've not found anything that large
except for 40 qt. stock pots in stainless or aluminum.  The best
source for these appears to be Rapids in Cedar Rapids MI.  Sorry, but
I don't have the address here at work.  Feel free to mail me if you're
interrested.

As for enamel, I looked all over town here without success.  A thorough
catalog search revealed the following:
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

8 gal. enamel over steel (~16.5" diameter)     $35

The Home Brewery 
P.O. Box 730          I've ordered one of these and expect it this
Ozark, MO   65721       week.
800/321-BREW


- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
8 gal. enamel over steel                        $32
                       w/chrome spigot          $45

The Cellar
14411 Greenwool Ave N.
P.O. Box 33525
Seattle, WA   98133
206/365-7660
800/342-1871


- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
After a long and arduous search, I have determined that there is no such
thing as a 32+ qt. stainless pot which will straddle two burners.  The
best bet is to get an enamel pot and be more diligent about stirring.

Don McDaniel
dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu


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Date:     Tue Feb 19 12:51:59 1991
From: "David E. Husk" <deh7g at newton.acc.virginia.edu>
Subject:  3rd try


	Someones mailer is acting strange.  Anyway can someone give
me info on the replacement lid program for corneous kegs.  I.E.
phone number, why lids should be replaced, what to look for.
	May the great god of E-mail let this message get through
unscrambled.

			Husk at virginia.edu


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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 91 09:54:22 PST
From: bobc at Eng.Sun.COM (Bob Clark - Sun Engineering)
Subject: Re:  Hops (Spring is here!)

 -> From: jeg at desktalk.com (John E. Greene)
 -> Subject: Spring is here!

 -> The hops seemed to like it as they are growing like crazy.
 -> 
 -> Anyone else seeing any activity??

Yep - I'm in San Jose, CA, in the east hills, an area which is very
warm and dry.  My Cascade is sprouting like crazy right now.  This will
be the third year.  The Willamette has not sprouted yet; in general, it
has been much less productive and vigorous than the Cascade.

I propogated the Cascade last year by digging straight down with a
sharp shovel to separate two bunches of sprouts at the root level.  One
I left, and one I moved to another hole.  Worked great - I'm planning
on repeating this year with both the Cascade and Willamette.

	Bob C.

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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 91 12:21:51 -0600 (CST)
From: Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mashing Temperatures

In HBD #582, Don McDaniel writes:

>That mash temp is quite high and would result in de-acivating
>the alpha-amylase enzymes and retarding the activity of
>beta-amylase (the best compromise temp for both enzymes is 121F. 

I hate to suggest this, but you're going to need to go back to the book
and study those temperatures a little further.  121F is a good
temperature to effect what's known as a *protein rest*, but will never
allow any starch conversion.  

I mash my body-ful beers at about 158F; for dryer beers somewhere in the
low 150s seems appropriate.


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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 91 10:23:07 PST
From: rush at xanadu.llnl.gov (Alan Edwards)
Subject: Oxygenating wort

Bryan Olson (bryan at tekgen.bv.tek.com) wrote in HBD #582:

...
| I try to oxygenate the chilled wort (before pitching) by shaking the carboy,
| but it doesn't seem as effective as I would like it to be.

Ooh, be very careful not to drop the carboy!  You could kill yourself from
the lacerations.

| I read about an air filter/pump to oxygenate the wort, but it seemed like it
| might need a few changes before it's worth the money they are asking.
| 
| Is anyone using sanitize/sterilized air or medical oxygen to oxygenate thier
| wort? If so, I'd like to hear what they are using.

Why go to all that trouble?  I stir vigorously with a sanitized wire whisk
(egg beater thingy).  I'm sure it puts lots of oxygen in the wort.  Of
course, you would have to do that before you transfered the wort to your
in your carboy.  I use a plastic bucket for a primary, so it works great
for me.

 -Alan
 .------------------------------------.
 | Alan Edwards: rush at xanadu.llnl.gov |      Member: The Hoppy Cappers
 |    or: rush%xanadu at crg.llnl.gov    |      homebrew club, Modesto, CA
 `------------------------------------'

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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 91 12:25:41 -0600 (CST)
From: Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU>
Subject: Re: Large Enamel Pots

In HBD #582, Craig Flowers asks:

>There were some posts over the last few months about large (36+ quarts)
>enamel canning pots.  I cannot find one.  

I can't tell if you're from Chicago.  If you are, I saw a variety of
enamel pots like you're probably seeking at a Mexican grocery (whose
name I can't remember)--it was on Diversey,  just past Richmond Street. 
A 32-quarter was selling for $22, which I thought was an excellent
price.  

You might also try a restaurant supply house.  Many of them carry a lot
of used equipment--I got a great 8 gallon, heavy-duty stainless
stockpot, with a drain valve on the bottom, for $10.  




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Date: 19 Feb 91 13:57:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Cidering

In HBD 582 Mark Castleman, (spelling?) mentioned making cider in the gallon 
jugs from the store.  I would like to make some such cider and would really 
appreciate the details, and, if possible, answers to the following 
questions.

How much yeast per gallon do you use?  Do you add any priming sugar after 
fermentation completes?  Do you ferment at room temp?  Is the gallon jug 
strong enough to withstand the pressure from carbonation after 
fermentation?  

I wonder what happens if you add some spices to the fresh cider before 
fermenting?

Anyway, thanks for any other info you or anyone else can give.

Dan Graham



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Date:    Tue, 19 Feb 1991 14:42:01 EST
From: "44636::DEE" at e814b.phy.bnl.gov (James Dee)
Subject: Keg pressure problems

Some friends and I recently bought a Rotokeg from a homebrew supply place.  The
Rotokeg is a spherical plastic container with a tap on the front and a screw-on
top with an inlet for CO2; I'm sure it's similar to any other homebrew keg.  I
wonder if anyone has had any experience with these things.  They seem fairly
straightforward, but ours gave us some trouble.  We were unable to get it to
hold pressure for any length of time.  Consequently, we had to draw out the
beer a gallon at a time into a milk jug.  Is there a standard procedure for
using this kind of keg?  I suspect that we've been doing something wrong,
though I don't know what.  I'd appreciate any advice.

					Thanks,
					--Jimmy Dee

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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 91 11:56:54 PST
From: kjohnson at argon.berkeley.edu (Ken Johnson)
Subject: mash out

What's the reason for the mashout?  Is it to raise the mash temperature to one
that's more efficient for sparging?  Is it simply to deactivate the enzymes,
(why would you want to do that?)?

curious
kj

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Date: 19 Feb 91 15:26:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: To Keg or not to Keg

I'm a new homebrewer with bad eyesight.  Bottling is one of the most 
difficult tasks for me, I either get them far too full, (all over my shoes) 
or two-thirds full, neither is acceptable.  I have read a lot about kegging 
in this digest, but most of the discussion is by those already into this.  
I see in the Foxx catalog that I can get a kegging setup, complete, I 
think, for around $200.

Now, my questions, if I may.  What are the downsides of kegging, not 
counting the cost of the equipment.  Does the keg need to be refrigerated, 
(I assume so, but I thought I'd ask)?  Can I transfer directly from the 
secondary, or primary if that's all I use, to the keg?  How long does the 
beer remain good in the keg?  Is there more of a problem with freshness as 
the get becomes empty?  If I make a half batch of a new brew, can I keg 
that, or does tne keg need to be filled.

I guess those are enough for now.  Sorry I can't just pick up a book and 
read all about it, but I haven't found any homebrewing books on tape yet.  
Thanks to any and all for your patience and, hopefully, answers.

Dan Graham


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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 91 16:36:07 -0700
From: dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu (Don McDaniel)
Subject: Large Boilers

oops. Forgot one source of pots.
This is in fact the one I ordered, not the one from The Home
Brewery as stated in my last post.

33 qt. ceramic on steel      $32.95

Great Fermentations
87 Larkspur St.
San Rafael, CA   94901
415/459-2520
800/542-2520

Don McDaniel
dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu



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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 91 21:47:35 -0700
From: dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu (Don McDaniel)
Subject: High Final Gravity

I was having some misgivings regarding my last post so I
looked it up in Miller's book, and sure enough...I was
wrong.

150F is a perfectly normal starch conversion temperature.
When I said 121, I was thinking of a protien rest temp.
Furthermore, it is the beta-amylase which works at low
temp and the alpha-amylase that works at higher temps.

So...please disregard my previous comments on the cause of
the high final gravity.  Next time I'll value accuracy over
speed when formulating a response.

Don McDaniel
dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu


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Date: Wed, 20 Feb 91 00:03:08 EST
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Yeast -- culturing supplies?

I'm psyched to start saving slants of yeast, and am looking for sources for
agar, petri dishes, tubes, loops, etc.

Who sells in reasonable quantities for fair price?

And what is this Yeast Bank / Freeze Shield stuff? it sounds like you're
supposed to add it to your sample/culture wort then freeze it, but I dunno.

Finally, the continuing saga of my failure to culture yeast from bottles
continues. Not only has Sierra Nevada failed me, but now also Chimay. I
don't think it's lack of sanitation, as neither starter developed an
infection -- the bottles just sat on the fridge and stared at me.
Previously, I speculated that by the time these beers get Back East, the
yeast is dead. Can anyone on east coast whose done this tell me what you
used?

Thanks in advance.


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Date: Wed, 20 Feb 91 00:20:34 EST
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: kegging -- excessive foam and low carbonation

A while ago, I posted a tale of woe, trying to get my first keg batch to
carbonate. My second through fourth (most recent) had similar problems:
excessive head, but rather low carbonation. I primed with 1.5L saved wort
(at about 1.060, 1.050 and 1.080SG, respectively), according to
calculations a la Noonan. After Florian's recommendation, I reduced the CO2
pressure to sane levels, which meant I rarely had to apply CO2 from the
cylinder.

Now, the third batch, a stout, began to develop nice carbonation after
maybe 3 weeks, and the froth seemed to dissapate. I don't know if this is
due to sufficient aging, or reduced pressure in the keg due to consumption
of beer. The second and fourth batches didn't survive long enough in the
fridge to tell, really (tasted too good :-), although the fourth sat in the
keg at cellar temperature for 3 weeks before cooling. Some of this may be
due to the high gravities, I'm not sure.

Anyone else encounter similar behavior? When I bottled, I always got
textbook carbonation -- maybe even a little too much, and the froth was
normal for style(s)...

I've just put a fermenter full of lager (based on Norm Hardy's
Andech's/Munich -- thanks!) in the fridge, and I could use some hints on
fermenting and lagering it. (eg: if `lagering' the period *after* priming?
or does it apply to the whole cold-ferment, cold-prime, cold-store thing?)

Thanks again!


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #583, 02/20/91
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