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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  How to use a HERMS system (Kevin Eggemeyer)
  Re: How to use a HERMS system ("David Houseman")
  Re: How to use a HERMS system (Mike Schwartz)
  RE: How to use a HERMS system ("Mike Patient")
  Ginger beer/kefir grain questions (David Huber)


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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 02:37:10 -0500
From: Kevin Eggemeyer <keggbrewer at gmail.com>
Subject: How to use a HERMS system

I'm for saving the enzymes!  But it's not always easy.  Beta-amylase's
optimum temperature is between 144F to 149F.  It is heat sensitive and
rapidly denatured at even slightly higher temperatures----very rapidly
inactivated at 158F.  Heating the circulating wort in a HERMs above this
temperature will change the enzyme profile of your mash.  So, this
potentially doesn't leave much room for a temperature difference to drive
the heat transfer.  

 

The question is: Will the change in the mash enzyme profile affect the
character of the beer to a noticeable extent?  The answer, in part, depends
on what the attenuation level of the beer is supposed to be.  Higher
attenuation beers would need more care regarding the maximum temperature to
which the wort/mash is exposed.  Of course, enzyme activity is not stable
over time either and also falls off, so you have to get their quickly AND
without a large "Delta T" creating enzyme destroying hot spots.  

 

Kevin


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Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 07:12:33 -0400
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: How to use a HERMS system

Bruce,

I have a HERMS system from More Beer.  Instructions, my practice and 
experience has the HLT about 10 to 15 degrees hotter than the temperature 
you are trying to achieve in the mash tun.  Enzyme deactivation is not just 
exposure to temperature but also the time at the temperature.   If you are 
pumping wort through a HERMS coil, it isn't spending much time at the higher 
temperature and it's a small percentage of the wort at any time.   When the 
HLT is the same temperature you are trying to achieve, the mash tun takes a 
very long time to reach that temperature because you are approaching the 
temperature asymptotically, averaging the lower temperature of the mash tun 
with the heated wort at the target temperature.  Going higher means that you 
will hit the target temperature much quicker.  I have not had a problem 
deactivating enzymes with my HLT set at say 165 move my mash tun from 132 to 
150 and then maintain the 150 for an hour.   I then set my HLT to about 180 
to 185 and by the time it is at that temperature the HLT is ready to move 
the mash tun up to a 168-170 mash out temperature.

Dave Houseman


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Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 07:39:33 -0500
From: Mike Schwartz <mjs at seadogboats.com>
Subject: Re: How to use a HERMS system

Bruce Fabijonas asked "How to use a HERMS system"

I used one for many years.  It used 20 feet of 3/8" ID copper tube in a coil
in the HLT.  I would set my HLT at about 170F to do the rise to
saccharification temperature and 185F to do the mash off, so about 20F
degrees above my target mash temperature.  This allowed the temperature to
rise roughly 1 to 1.5F/ minute, though it slowed some as it approached the
target temperature. Never had any issues with destroying enzymes prematurely.
 I suspect that the brief time that the wort spent in the tube

at the elevated temperature was not enough to destroy the enzymes to a
degree that would affect the conversion.  I used this system on a wide range
of beers including a weizen that was 70% wheat malt where I did steps at 110F
(combination acid, ferulic acid, beta glucan), and 153F.

Mike Schwartz

Beer Barons of Milwaukee

beerbarons.org

worldofbeerfestival.com

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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 12:26:52 -0400
From: "Mike Patient" <mpatient at rta.biz>
Subject: RE: How to use a HERMS system


It is my understanding that you want to set the HLT to the target temp.  
HERMS is a slow ramp, that is what you are getting.  
If you feel the wort is cooling too much in transit, set it a degree or two
higher, but if you set the HLT to 155, you are mashing at 155.  
How slow are you talking about?  
I feel some people exaggerate when they say how fast their mash rises.  
The following website is very useful
http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com/HERMS.html

Mike




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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 14:22:22 -0400
From: David Huber <n3uks.dave at gmail.com>
Subject: Ginger beer/kefir grain questions

I recently listened to an interview with Raj Apte from the 31 August
2006 Basic Brewing Radio podcast
(http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr08-31-06.mp3) regarding
using the ginger-beer plant to make beverages, and I checked out his
presentation given at the 2006 NHC
(http://www2.parc.com/emdl/members/apte/GingerBeer.pdf).  I recently
started making my own kefir and I love ginger beer, so I wanted to
give this a shot.  Unfortunately, the source he cites back then,
Fermented Treasures, doesn't seem to be in business any longer.  I
think I found another source to get the plant, but doing some more
digging around I am confused between ginger beer plant and what seems
to be called water and/or sugar kefir.  Are they the same?  I can find
a fair number of people on-line who are selling "water kefir," but
hardly anyone who is selling the ginger beer plant.  My guess is that
we're talking about the differences between, say, WLP001 and WLP002,
but I want to make sure I get something that makes decent ginger beer
and other soft drinks.

On this same topic, has anyone tried throwing these grains into a
beer?  I'm wondering whether the lactobacillus and the yeasts can
thrive in a secondary, or whether they would just die out from the
alcohol and the low pH.

Dave Huber
Jessup, Md.

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