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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Homebrew Digest #585 (February 26, 1991) (Rick Palmer)
  Re: brew clubs in DC? (John DeCarlo)
  help in getting started (CCL-L) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Dry hopping (Gerald Andrew Winters)
  low/non-alcohol beer tasting results (Marty Albini)
  freshness dating on beer ("Ihor W. Slabicky")
  What happened to #583? (MC2331S)
  RE>Homebrew Digest #585 (Rad Equipment)
  RE>Homebrew Digest #585 (Fe (Rad Equipment)
  Re: mashing out (John Polstra)
  Temp, mashing out, extract efficiency ("Eric Roe")
  re: Paulaner Salvator (Darryl Richman)
  Idaho and New England info                                   (DAVIDSOND)
  Mead + light (James Hensley)
  grains and hops (Mary Jane Kelly)


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[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 91 05:16:14 -0500
From: rick at cs.cornell.edu (Rick Palmer)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #585 (February 26, 1991)

Please desubscribe me.  (I'm not so sure I want to send it here, but I
have no other place to send it.) ;-)

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Date: Tuesday, 26 Feb 1991 08:51:09 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: brew clubs in DC?

>From: shadow!spike at uu.psi.com (Ben Bloom)

>Can somebody clue me in on the whereabouts and whoabouts of a
>homebrew coop or club in the DC/Northern VA area.

There are two home brewers clubs in the Washington DC
metropolitan area.

1) BURP (Brewers United for Real Potables) is now entering it's
tenth year as a home brew club.  I have been consistently
impressed with the level of knowledge the members have and have
been a member for two years now.

Bill Ridgely is past-president and there is a new suite of
officers, but his is the only number I have available at the
moment.  For more information, you can call Bill at 703-971-5744
or write to:
BURP
7430 Gene Street
Alexandria, VA 22310

2) BANOVA (Brewers Association of Northern Virginia, I think).
They have had a couple of meetings and were supposed to be
working on bylaws and officers.  Have not attended, but am always
interested in anything to do with home brewing.

Contact Miles Smith at 703-237-8956 for more details.

Finally, a minor plug for my BBS at 703-448-0926 (Fidonet
1:109/131).  I keep copies of the Homebrew Digest along with some
miscellaneous brewing files there.  Also there is a Fidonet home
brewing conference called ZYMURGY.  And there is a message area
devoted to information on local brew clubs and their meetings,
etc.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date:     Tue, 26 Feb 91 10:21:57 EST
From: William Boyle (CCL-L) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  help in getting started

   I NEED HELP IN GETTING STARTED IN HOMEBREWING.  TO DATE
ALL I KNOW IS I LIKE BEER AND WOULD LIKE TO TRY BREWING IT AT
HOME.  WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO FIND OUT IS THE TITLE OF A GOOD
BOOK THAT COULD GIVE ME THE BASICS IN HOMEBREWING, ANY ADVICE
FROM "MASTER BREWERS", AND ANY NAMES OF MAIL ORDER CATALOGS
OR STORES IN NORTHEAST PENNSYLVANIA THAT WOULD CARRY BREWING
APPARATUS.  ANY INFORMATION AND HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED.

                                   BILL BOYLE

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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 91 10:45:52 EST
From: gerald at caen.engin.umich.edu (Gerald Andrew Winters)
Subject: Dry hopping

  I am looking for info/experiences anyone has concerning dry hopping.  Off and on
I'll see a recipe calling for dry hopping and, really, I wouldn't know exactly what
to do.  Miller and Papaizan only seem to give sketchy details.  Miller seems to
suggest that hops are dispensed directly from storage into the secondary.  But I to
wonder as he does if this is a bit risky.  I've also heard of people making "hop tea"
by boiling the hops and straining, then adding this tea to the secondary.  Anyway my
questions are when during secondary fermentation is best to dry hop ( a week or so 
before bottling?  When secondary fermentation begins?).  And most importantly what is
the best method of dry hopping?

        gerald at caen.engin.umich.edu (Gerald Andrew Winters)

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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 91 8:05:44 PST
From: Marty Albini <martya at sdd.hp.com>
Subject: low/non-alcohol beer tasting results

	Curiosity and lack of respect for my taste buds has
once again driven me to throw a non-alcohol beer tasting. We
tried 16 (that's right, 16) different examples, hoping to find
something drinkable. The results are in, and there were some
surprises this time.

	Though none of the beverages sampled really qualified
as a good beer, the top three were close enough that they
could be confused on a hot and thirsty day. The products
sampled were:

Wartech			Firestone		HaakeBeck
O'Doul's		Clausthaler		Sharp's
Moussy			Germania		Kingsbury
Paulaner Thomasbrau	Texas Select		Kaliber
Goetz Pale Near Beer	Texas Light Dark	Maxi Malz
Kaiserdom Malz

	The three best, in order:

	Thomasbrau was much better than anything else on the
list. Slightly sweet, lightly hopped (as almost all of these
were), well balanced, medium bodied and pleasantly colored and
carbonated.

	Kaliber was the most heavily hopped beverage on the
list, but suffered from less body, balance and aroma than
Thomasbrau.

	Germania suffered only from being too sweet. It has a
honey aroma (which it shares with most of the German
alkol-frei beers, including Thomasbrau), but too little hops
to balance it.

	Some things learned in this tasting:

o	Alcohol-free beers tend to sit on the shelf a long
	time (:^) and the flavor definitely suffers for it.
	Several of the lighter beverages (especially the
	American entries) suffered from skunkiness. The
	Kingsbury smelled so bad no one would taste it!

o	Most of the German entries tasted like raw wort, as if
	fermentation were incomplete in a real beer.

o	The two Malz products (Maxi und Kaiserdom) would be a
	good substitute for root beer. Very sweet, but rich,
	flavor and great body. We really regretted not having
	any ice cream to try a float with them.

o	Alcohol free beer still isn't close enough to the real
	thing.

	Still no breakthroughs, but a pleasant enough evening,
and everyone could drive home afterwards. The only product I'm
going to try and duplicate is Maxi Malz, for floats and
picnics with the kids.
- --
____________________________________________Marty Albini___________
"Thank god for long-necked bottles, the angel's remedy."--Tom Petty
phone    : (619) 592-4177
UUCP     : {hplabs|nosc|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!martya
Internet : martya at sdd.hp.com 
CSNET    : martya%hp-sdd at hplabs.csnet
US mail  : Hewlett-Packard Co., 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA

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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 91 10:33:43 -0500
From: "Ihor W. Slabicky" <iws at sgfb.ssd.ray.com>
Subject: freshness dating on beer


I saw something at my local package store that surprised
me - freshness dating on beer.  On cans of Peil's Real
Draft, the can label says that the best comsumed by date
is listed on the bottom of the can, and the bottom of the
can has a printed date.  Piel's is brewed by Heilman's now.
I saw these  about a week ago, say February 20, and the 
date on the bottom was April 1, 1991.  I don't know how
long the beer has been sitting at the store...

I can't wait for the package stores to have shelves set up
like the supermarkets do - those shelves where they sell
out of date products.  Or, as some supermarkets do, they
just dump the 'out of date' stuff in a dumpster... :-)

But dearest, I have to finish this beer before it goes bad...

Ihor

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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 91 10:44 CDT
From: MC2331S at ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
Subject: What happened to #583?

	Does HBD #583 exist?  I never received that issue, but sometimes
our Internet connection is pretty squirrely.  I checked the archive and it
isn't there (yet).
	Mark Castleman
	MC2331S at ACAD.DRAKE.EDU

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Date: 26 Feb 90 08:48:00
From: Rad Equipment <Rad_Equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: RE>Homebrew Digest #585

        Reply to:   RE>Homebrew Digest #585
Regarding Dry Beer and Randy Tidd's request@ how it is made:

Acording to Dr. Michael Lewis at UC Davis, Bud Dry is the same mash formula as
regular Bud, except that it is mashed so as to achieve the most fermentables. 
The mash-in puts the mash at 40 deg. C for 20 minutes then the temp is raised
to 55 deg. C for another 20 minutes and then raised again to 70 deg. C for a
final 20 minutes.  Normally the mash goes directly from the 40 deg. mark to the
70 deg. mark where it sits for 40 minutes.  The temp changes occur when the
boiling rice is added to the grains.  This period of mash at the lower middle
temp allows the beta-amylase to work on what starch has gelatinized (Am. barley
must be heated to at least 65 deg. C for full gelatinization, however
beta-amylase has very low heat tolerance) and convert it to lots of
fermentables.  The other character to the beer is no aftertase, so very little
bittering hops are used (which in the case of Bud, means almost NO HOPS!).

I don't think you will be able to reproduce this with extracts since I don't
know of any which include rice.  Williams in San Leandro, CA offers an extra
light which is 27% corn and they have rice extract on its own.  So you could
try getting the lightest you can find, make a wort of a low gravity (1.035),
and pitch a very attenuative yeast (Anheuser-Busch yeast is available from some
yeast banks).  Be careful not to scorch the wort when you boil in order to keep
the caramel down.

Russ Wigglesworth  <Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu>



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Date: 26 Feb 90 08:57:57
From: Rad Equipment <Rad_Equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: RE>Homebrew Digest #585 (Fe

        Reply to:   RE>Homebrew Digest #585 (Febru
Regarding Ken Johnson's request for an explanation of "mash-out":

Popular explanation is for deactivation of the enzymes.  My understanding is
that this really isn't necessary since the boil will do this quite nicely.  You
do want to keep the wort and sparge as warm as possible to keep the sugar
flowing and to assist in disolving them from the grains into solution.  75 deg.
C seems to be the optimum sparge temp. as it will achieve the above without
beginning to extract tannins and other unwanted character from the grain husks.

Russ Wigglesworth  <Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu>



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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 91 09:09:07 PST
From: polstra!jdp at uunet.UU.NET (John Polstra)
Subject: Re: mashing out

In HBD #585, kjohnson at argon.berkeley.edu (Ken Johnson) writes:

> Could someone please tell me the reason for a mash out. Is it to
> deactivate the enzymes?

Yes.

> To raise the mash to sparging temp.?

Yes.

> What?

Both of those reasons.  A common question goes like this:  "Once all
the starches are converted to sugars and there aren't any left, why
does it matter whether the enzymes get deactivated or not?"  Well, there
are sugars and then there are sugars.  You don't always necessarily
want conversion to run its full course.  Cutting it off a little early
can give you more body, and more unfermentable sugars for a sweeter
palate.  The mash out gives you more control over the character of the
final product.

Raising the mash to a good sparging temperature is also an important
reason for the mash out.  To get an efficient sparge, the temperature
needs to be right around 168 degrees F.  Any colder, and you'll leave
too much of the mash product behind in the grains.  Any hotter (above
170) and you'll start to get astringent flavors from the husks.  If the
grains aren't already around 168 degrees when you start the sparge,
you'll never get them up to that temperature from the sparge water
alone.

> confused
> kj

Nah ... you had it exactly right.  You just *thought* you were confused.

   John Polstra               polstra!jdp at uunet.uu.net
   Polstra & Co., Inc.           ...!uunet!polstra!jdp
   Seattle, Washington USA              (206) 932-6482
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."  -- John Barth

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Date:    Tue, 26 Feb 91 13:17 EST
From: "Eric Roe" <KXR11 at PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Temp, mashing out, extract efficiency

In HBD #585, Bill Mayne writes about a fast-starting fermentation.  You may
want to take your own advice and not fix your procedure.  If you're happy
with the results, keep doing what you're doing.  If, however, you notice
cidery flavors in your brew, this might be the result of initial fermentation
taking place at too high of temperatures.  I use a wort chiller and try to
get my batch down to about 60 degrees F before I pitch.  The initial
fermentation using this method is not so instantaneous.  A batch of wheat
beer took almost 36 hours to begin active fermentation with Whitbred ale
yeast.  This weekend I brewed a batch of porter, pitched with Munton & Fison
ale yeast, and it took about 18 hours to start active fermentation.  So far
I haven't had a problem with any infections, even with the long lag times.
If you do change your procedure, just remember to keep everything clean, and
contamination shouldn't be a worry.


Regarding mashing out, Ken Johnson writes:

>Could someone please tell me the reason for a mash out. Is it to deactivate
>the enzymes?  To raise the mash to sparging temp.?  What?

Mashing out deactivates the enzymes, but it also forces unconverted starch
particles into suspension.  This aids in their filtration during the sparge,
and results in a clearer runoff.  You've got be somewhat careful with your
temperature here.  If you mash out at too high of temperature, the starch
will degrade (burst) into sticky proteins and undermodified carbohydrates.
These will dissolve and can contribute to cloudy runoff, stuck runoff, and
down the line, chill haze.


Here's a question for my fellow all-grain brewers out there.  What kind of
extract efficiencies are you getting?  I've been unable to find any
references as to what are good percentages, and what percentages aren't so
good.  The batch of porter I brewed this Sunday (using 10 7/8lbs of grain)
ended up with a OG of 1.055 and a volume of 5.25 gallons.  Using Noonan's
formula for extract efficiency this came to about 59.5%, or about 6 1/6lbs of
extract out of 10 7/8lbs of grain.  I calculated the total possible
efficiency for the malts I was using to be 70.7% (about 7 2/3lbs extract out
of 10 7/8lbs of grain).


On another note, does anyone have a good recipe for an all-grain raspberry
stout.  I'm anxious to try making some sort of fruit beer.

                                          Eric
                                  <kxr11 at psuvm.psu.edu>

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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 91 14:54:55 -0800
From: darryl at ism.isc.com (Darryl Richman)
Subject: re: Paulaner Salvator

Regarding Paulaner Salvator, you might like to try my recipe in the special
issue of Zymurgy this past year.  Not a perfect match, but pretty close.
I don't recall exactly what the AHA published there, but there is a mistake--
the recipe is for *15* gallons, not 5.  I collected almost 20 gallons from
the lauter tun and boiled it for over 3 hours.  This got both the right
volume and the darker color needed.  Have fun!

		--Darryl Richman


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Date: 26 Feb 91 15:57 +0000
From: DAVIDSOND%AC%CSC at CSC.ISU.EDU
Subject: Idaho and New England info                                  

 
Two things, briefly:
 
I recently read of a homebrewfest in Idaho (Boise?!?) coming up, but
have misplaced that issue of the digest -- If anyone knows or remembers, or
perhaps could repost that message to me, I'd gladly name my first=born after
them (gender permitting).
 
Also, I'm doing a sort of anti=spring break, going to New England during March
13-26, rather than all that sun-n-sex down south.  To make up for missing all
of the bacchanalia, I'd appreciate the names of good beer places around
Boston and Amherst/Northampton MA, and Burlington VT.  I've heard there's one
in Northampton...
 
ThxInAdvance     DavidsonD at csc.isu.edu   (Darryl Davidson -- ID is another
                                           208 232 7770      state of mind)                                                                     

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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 91 15:15:44 -0800
From: jpaul at lccsd.sd.locus.com (James Hensley)
Subject: Mead + light


Does light adversely effect mead as it does beer?

James Hensley, Locus computing corporation, San Diego
(jpaul at locus.com) --  opinions own, not employer's.

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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 91 18:50:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Jane Kelly <mk36+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: grains and hops


What is the best way to store left over grains and hops?
Can they be stroed?  If they can be stored how long will
they keep.  Should one store them in air tight jars out of the
light, in the fridge or in the freezer?

Thanks in advance,

Pete

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #586, 02/27/91
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