HOMEBREW Digest #5916 Thu 15 March 2012

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  More PID ("A. J. deLange")
  Oxidation Help ("James R. Gregory")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 01:25:35 -0400 From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net> Subject: More PID Jeff sees a conflict between two of my posts on PID controllers. I'm not sure what the conflict is so assume it must be based on me not being clear about what I actually do in my brewery so I'll try amplifying on that. I have 1 single channel controller which runs the HLT using full PID with output being on and off cycling of steam on a 30 second cycle. It was auto tuned with the HLT full of water. It goes to set point, overshoots a wee bit and then settles right in at the setpoint. I also have a dual channel controller which controls the steam to my mashtun/kettle and decoction vessel/kettle also with on/off output on a 30 second cycle. If I tune the mash tun with water and then try to control the temperature of mash I get too much overshoot/droop or it takes to long to get to SP i.e. the tune set for water is not the tune set for mash and even if it were the tune set for a mash with 120 lbs of grain would not be the tune set for a mash with 75. As I am not comfortable with the overshoot and don't want to wait for an underdamped tuning I don't use PID when there is grain in either of these kettles. But if I do (i.e. when I did in the past) the controller behaves just like a PID controller with the wrong tune set. Now during collection of wort during lauter/sparge (I collect into both vessels) or in bringing strike water up to temperature for dough in I do use PID with this controller and it works perfectly normally. Hope that clears thing up. It just occurred to me that perhaps Jeff's confusion about stability stems from thinking that the on/off cycling of the output gets fed back to the input of the controller i.e. that the PV signal has modulation on it. It doesn't. The thermal mass of the water or mash is a big low pass filter. Though I'm cycling on a 30 second cycle the thermal time constant of the load is minutes. Does that help? A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 10:12:31 -0400 From: "James R. Gregory" <jgregory at gregoryreedlaw.com> Subject: Oxidation Help I am a relatively new all grain home brewer and am trying to get rid of a slight "homebrew" taste in some of my brews. I suspect it may be oxidation related. To date I have bottle condition all brews. I am looking for advice on preventing oxidation. I try to keep splashing, etc. to a minimum when transferring from carboy to bottling bucket. So I am looking for other tips and any comments on the following: 1. Should I flush carboys, bottling bucket and bottles with co2. I read the recent "flushing" discussion and am still confused. Stupid question, but, if this is a good idea what is best way to get co2 equipment and rough cost. 2. Are the more expensive bottling caps that absorb oxygen worth the money. 3. I have heard that adding a very small amount of sodium or potassium bisulfite to brew prevents oxidation. Anything to this and, if so, how is it done. 4. Any other suggestions. Thanks, Jim James Gregory Gregory & Reed, P.C. 2 Sylvan Way Parsippany, NJ 07054 (973) 898-1400 PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL The information contained in this electronic transmission is privileged and confidential information intended for the sole use of the addressee. If the reader of this electronic transmission is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any downloading, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy the electronic copy that you have improperly received. Return to table of contents
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