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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  More PID ("A. J. deLange")
  Oxidation Help ("James R. Gregory")


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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 01:25:35 -0400
From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: More PID

Jeff sees a conflict between two of my posts on PID controllers. I'm not 
sure what the conflict is so assume it must be based on me not being 
clear about what I actually do in my brewery so I'll try amplifying on that.

I have 1 single channel controller which runs the HLT using full PID 
with output being on and off cycling of steam on a 30 second cycle. It 
was auto tuned with the HLT full of water. It goes to set point, 
overshoots a wee bit and then settles right in at the setpoint.

I also have a dual channel controller which controls the steam to my 
mashtun/kettle and decoction vessel/kettle also with on/off output on a 
30 second cycle. If I tune the mash tun with water and then try to 
control the temperature of mash I get too much overshoot/droop or it 
takes to long to get to SP i.e. the tune set for water is not the tune 
set for mash and even if it were the tune set for a mash with 120 lbs of 
grain would not be the tune set for a mash with 75. As I am not 
comfortable with the overshoot and don't want to wait for an underdamped 
tuning I don't use PID when there is grain in either of these kettles. 
But if I do (i.e. when I did in the past) the controller behaves just 
like a PID controller with the wrong tune set.

Now during collection of wort during lauter/sparge (I collect into both 
vessels) or in bringing strike water up to temperature for dough in I do 
use PID with this controller and it works perfectly normally.

Hope that clears thing up.

It just occurred to me that perhaps Jeff's confusion about stability 
stems from thinking that the on/off cycling of the output gets fed back 
to the input of the controller i.e. that the PV signal has modulation on 
it. It doesn't. The thermal mass of the water or mash is a big low pass 
filter. Though I'm cycling on a 30 second cycle the thermal time 
constant of the load is minutes. Does that help?

A.J.



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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 10:12:31 -0400
From: "James R. Gregory" <jgregory at gregoryreedlaw.com>
Subject: Oxidation Help

I am a relatively new all grain home brewer and am trying to get rid of a
slight "homebrew" taste in some of my brews.  I suspect it may be oxidation
related.  To date I have bottle condition all brews.

 

I am looking for advice on preventing oxidation.  I try to keep splashing,
etc. to a minimum when transferring from carboy to bottling bucket.  So I am
looking for other tips and any comments on the following:

 

1.       Should I flush carboys, bottling bucket and bottles with co2.  I
read the recent "flushing" discussion and am still confused.  Stupid
question, but, if this is a good idea what is best way to get co2 equipment
and rough cost.

2.       Are the more expensive bottling caps that absorb oxygen worth the
money.

3.       I have heard that adding a very small amount of sodium or potassium
bisulfite to brew prevents oxidation.  Anything to this and, if so, how is
it done.

4.       Any other suggestions.

Thanks,

 

Jim

 

James Gregory

Gregory & Reed, P.C.

2 Sylvan Way

Parsippany, NJ 07054

(973) 898-1400

 

 

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