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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re: Homebrew Taste ("David Houseman")
  Lager Question (TARogue)
  Re: Oxidation Help ("\\-s@roadrunner.com")


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Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 08:40:00 -0400
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Taste

Mike,

I agree that oxidation, from old stale liquid malt extract and hot-side 
aeration is one of the problems with some homebrew.  However in my 
experience this doesn't result in the "wet cardboard" form of oxidation 
which is more typically from oxygen introduced post fermentation.   Rather 
the result I sense is a dullness with muted, caramel-like notes.  Oxidation 
can take a number of sensory forms, and each person may describe their 
perception differently so we may agree that oxidation isn't good and we 
don't like the results.

David Houseman 


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Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 10:48:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: TARogue <tarogue at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lager Question

I made an attempt at a lager last week. The krausen never got very big, but
it did go up and then settle back down. It sat in my basement at
48/48/50/52/54/56/54 degrees. High krausen occored on the first 54 degree
day, Today I racked it into secondary and moved it to a lagering fridge. The
initial gravity was 1.048. Today it was at 1.026.

The recipe was 22 lbs of US 2-row and 3 oz of Saaz hops. I mashed for about
45 min at 148. Mashed out with 190 degree liquor for 10 minutes and boiled
for 60. I used Fermentis dry lager yeast S-23.

The final gravity should be about 1.012. My question is: will it continue to
drop points when cooled to 36-38 degrees? Or should I take t back out and
move it somewhere warmer for a couple days?

And this is why I do so much better with ales.

- -- 

 -Tom

http://www.facebook.com/Out.Haus

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Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 18:29:56 -0400
From: "\\-s at roadrunner.com" <"\\-s"@roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: Oxidation Help

James R. Gregory asks for help regarding oxidation...

> I am a relatively new all grain home brewer and am trying to get rid of a
> slight "homebrew" taste in some of my brews.  I suspect it may be oxidation
> related.  To date I have bottle condition all brews.
>
>
>
> I am looking for advice on preventing oxidation.  I try to keep splashing,
> etc. to a minimum when transferring from carboy to bottling bucket.  So I am
> looking for other tips and any comments on the following:
>
>
>
> 1.       Should I flush carboys, bottling bucket and bottles with co2.  I
> read the recent "flushing" discussion and am still confused.  Stupid
> question, but, if this is a good idea what is best way to get co2 equipment
> and rough cost.

You don't need to flush your primary fermenter as you want the yeast to 
have access to O2.  If you move the beer to a secondary fermenter you 
should always do so while there is active fermentation under way - and 
again there is no need to flush so long as the container is reasonable 
full (95% full not 50%) and don't splash.  If you are bottle 
conditioning then I wouldn't use O2 scavenging caps, and you can just 
fill normally and leave a cap sitting on top of the bottle to rest for a 
minute before sealing.  The CO2 from the beer will push out most of the 
O2, and the remainder can be used by the yeast.

> 2.       Are the more expensive bottling caps that absorb oxygen worth the
> money.
If you are bottling w/o bottle conditioning and you intend to store the 
beer for much time or at suboptimal temps - then yes.


> 3.       I have heard that adding a very small amount of sodium or potassium
> bisulfite to brew prevents oxidation.  Anything to this and, if so, how is
> it done.
Yes - it's very effective.  I suggest you start with campden tablets 
(commonly used for wine making 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campden_tablets), or alternatively you can 
get potassium metabisulfite powder which may be slightly better.  I'd 
add a minimum of 2 campden tables (~1gm) crushed to a 5 gallon mash.   
You can certainly triple that amount.  With "too much" you'll eventually 
get a sulfury edge to the beer - not unlike a white wine - tho it 
'works' well with some lagers.

Generally this makes the beer taste much fresher and a little crisper.  
The sulfite acts as an anti-oxidant and even can convert come already 
oxidized flavor actors to unoxidized states.  The end products are 
sulfate (which you may be adding as gypsum) and a little sodium or 
potassium.

> 4.       Any other suggestions.

In my experience it's rare to get bottle oxidation in a bottle 
conditioned beer.   I've done side-by-sides and the bottle conditioned 
beers really do taste better much longer (it's just such a PITA to 
bottle).  So IF your problem is really oxidation - it's either happening 
in the mash or else your ingredients are oxidized.  Metabite in the mash 
will cure any mash oxidation problem and maybe even help any ingredient 
issues a little.  My main ingredient concern would be to use good hops.  
Hops oxidation is a real potential problem.

Another possibility is that you are getting yeast autolysis in the 
bottle.    Some yeast disintegrate after bottle conditioning and leave a 
meaty-brothy flavor and even leaves some oily rancid flavors (a hint of 
dead mouse).   Most of the hi-alcohol ale yeasts do very well in the 
bottle.  Also you should end up with a little opaque layer of yeast in 
the bottom of bottle - not a quarter inch.

 -S



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