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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  talk radio ("Richard Gleason, Jr")
  Re: No chill brewing (Mike Schwartz)
  no chill brewing! ("Darrell G. Leavitt")
  Fwd: No chill brewing (David Houseman)
  Dry Hopping ("Gary Peyton")
  No chill brewing ("Dave Burley")


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Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 20:36:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Richard Gleason, Jr" <rgleasonjr at att.net>
Subject: talk radio

Hey Joseph - I  tried to visit the link you provided, but my computer will not 
let me go there.  Now what?

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 08:29:15 -0500
From: Mike Schwartz <mjs at seadogboats.com>
Subject: Re: No chill brewing

David Root asks "I guess my question is why is quick chilling so important"?

SSM, the precursor to DMS, is converted to DMS quickly at temperatures 
above 140F.  DMS is volatile so it will come out of the beer during 
boiling.  If you cover a hot vat of wort you will generate and trap the 
DMS.  That's why Rolling Rock always had that cooked corn smell and 
taste.  If you like corn in your beer, no problem, if not, chill fast 
after the boil.  Some people really like that flavor, others don't.  All 
depends on your taste.

As for not pitching for three days after the boil, you got lucky and had 
great sanitation.  The sooner the yeast are in the less chance the 
spoilage organisms have to take hold.  As for the sanitation effects of 
hot wort in your fermenter, you could always chill after you transfer 
the beer to the fermenter.  Just avoid aeration.

Mike Schwartz
Beer Barons of Milwaukee
beerbarons.org
worldofbeerfestival.com


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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 10:03:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Darrell G. Leavitt" <leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: no chill brewing!

Wow!  David that is a hoot!

One of the things that I have read about from numerous brewing books is
the claim that the time that it takes to chill the wort is critical in
that this is the time when one could get a contamination.  The quicker one
chills, they say, the less the chance of contamination.

Are you not comfortable with bleach, or some of the newer sanitizers?

This is really interesting in that it goes against one of the "cardinal
rules".  I need a therapist! Or perhaps a beer!

Let's see what others have to say.

Darrell


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Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 08:42:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Houseman <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: Fwd: No chill brewing

There are two reasons for not doing this no chill brewing. The first is that 
you do not produce sterile wort.   No matter what you do you will introduce 
some amount of wild yeast, bacteria or mold spores into the wort.   As the 
wort cools slowly you have a great reproduction broth for these organisms.   
You really want to chill and pitch a quantity of yeast that will 
take off and overwhelm any other organism, not leaving them with food for 
their own growth.   

The second is DMS.  Dimethyl sulfide (DMS) is often perceived as canned corn 
or other vegetables.  The DMS precursor is in malt, much more in lightly 
kilned malts (pilsner, lager) and less so in pale ale malt and even less so 
in the darker roasted malts.   When you boil for an hour or so you drive off 
the DMS that forms.   But DMS will re-form as the wort cools.  That's why you 
boil uncovered as well; the DMS will condense and roll back into the kettle.    
Wort that cools below about 170-180oF (forget the exact temps) will reform 
DMS until the wort reacheds about 100-105oF (again I may have exact temps 
wrong).   You want to transition this range as fast as possible.   Then 
AERATE (O2) the wort VERY well and then pitch the right amount of healthy 
viable yeast.   

Oh, a third:  You really don't want to carry hot break aterial over to the 
fermenter; this reduces shelf life and beer quality.  Cold break is OK; you 
can leave that. You will produce beer with no-chill brewing but it will not 
be as good as it can be.   With all the water and energy used in chilling, 
breweries world-wide would do that if it were a viable option.   They don't 
for very good reasons.   Worth an experiment.   Make 10 gallons (or whatever) 
and take 1/2 to a fermenter (no chill) and chill the other 1/2.  Do 
everything else the same with them.  Then taste the results.  To be a good 
experiment you may have to repeat several times.   Document your experiment 
and come speak at the AHA conference. 

David Houseman
Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 13:13:49 -0500
From: "Gary Peyton" <gpeyton2 at comcast.net>
Subject: Dry Hopping

As an alternative to dry hopping, it seems as though soaking the hops in
vodka would extract more of the volatile hop oils from hops than would water
or wort, since the solubility of hydrocarbons like myrcene should be higher
in ethanol than in water*.  One could even use everclear (95%) or some
dilution of it.  There may be some more polar compounds left in the hops that
would be less efficiently extracted by alcohol.  I would have thought that
these would be expected to be less important contributors to aroma, but
apparently not so.  Lots of good information here: 
http://beersensoryscience.wordpress.com/2010/11/30/glycosides/ .  In
addition, late-boil hops could also be added to generate the oxidation
products like linalool and geraniol if wanted.	Even better might be
decanting the extract and using the remaining hops for the late-boil addition
(read down to the part on "spent hop powder" in the above reference).  So,
the main thing this might accomplish would be decreasing the loss of the
volatile aroma compounds.  The extract could be added to the primary,
secondary, or bottling bucket/keg.

Comments?  Results?

*I don't have any numbers, but the Merck Index says beta-myrcene is
"practically insoluble in water" but is "soluble in alcohol" (probably means
100% alcohol).

Gary

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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 16:29:14 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave Burley at charter.net>
Subject: No chill brewing

David Root,

There is  a lot to be said for skipping a step in brewing if it does not
affect the outcome.  

However, you will find tons of printed testimonials about not exposing hot
beer to the air before the yeast are active and able to absorb it.  In my
experience this hot oxidation is what ruins most amateur beers and is a
charateristic which defines homebrewing in too many instances. " Cellar
palate" is a common problem ( and why we have local contests) and can lead
one to say "well my beer is OK" when in fact it has a major fault, to which
you have become accustomed..

Your method of filling your fermenter from the bottom will minimize the
oxidation, but you will still have it to some degree.  Try a comparison of
chilling vs not chilling of the same beer recipe  and see if you can tell the
diference by direct comparison.. 

Filling the fermenter from the bottom will likely minimize hot oxidation.

Keep on Brewin',

Dave Burley"

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