HOMEBREW Digest #5930 Mon 02 April 2012

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  talk radio ("Richard Gleason, Jr")
  Re: No chill brewing (Mike Schwartz)
  no chill brewing! ("Darrell G. Leavitt")
  Fwd: No chill brewing (David Houseman)
  Dry Hopping ("Gary Peyton")
  No chill brewing ("Dave Burley")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 20:36:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Richard Gleason, Jr" <rgleasonjr at att.net> Subject: talk radio Hey Joseph - I tried to visit the link you provided, but my computer will not let me go there. Now what? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 08:29:15 -0500 From: Mike Schwartz <mjs at seadogboats.com> Subject: Re: No chill brewing David Root asks "I guess my question is why is quick chilling so important"? SSM, the precursor to DMS, is converted to DMS quickly at temperatures above 140F. DMS is volatile so it will come out of the beer during boiling. If you cover a hot vat of wort you will generate and trap the DMS. That's why Rolling Rock always had that cooked corn smell and taste. If you like corn in your beer, no problem, if not, chill fast after the boil. Some people really like that flavor, others don't. All depends on your taste. As for not pitching for three days after the boil, you got lucky and had great sanitation. The sooner the yeast are in the less chance the spoilage organisms have to take hold. As for the sanitation effects of hot wort in your fermenter, you could always chill after you transfer the beer to the fermenter. Just avoid aeration. Mike Schwartz Beer Barons of Milwaukee beerbarons.org worldofbeerfestival.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 10:03:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Darrell G. Leavitt" <leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu> Subject: no chill brewing! Wow! David that is a hoot! One of the things that I have read about from numerous brewing books is the claim that the time that it takes to chill the wort is critical in that this is the time when one could get a contamination. The quicker one chills, they say, the less the chance of contamination. Are you not comfortable with bleach, or some of the newer sanitizers? This is really interesting in that it goes against one of the "cardinal rules". I need a therapist! Or perhaps a beer! Let's see what others have to say. Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 08:42:03 -0500 (CDT) From: David Houseman <david.houseman at verizon.net> Subject: Fwd: No chill brewing There are two reasons for not doing this no chill brewing. The first is that you do not produce sterile wort. No matter what you do you will introduce some amount of wild yeast, bacteria or mold spores into the wort. As the wort cools slowly you have a great reproduction broth for these organisms. You really want to chill and pitch a quantity of yeast that will take off and overwhelm any other organism, not leaving them with food for their own growth. The second is DMS. Dimethyl sulfide (DMS) is often perceived as canned corn or other vegetables. The DMS precursor is in malt, much more in lightly kilned malts (pilsner, lager) and less so in pale ale malt and even less so in the darker roasted malts. When you boil for an hour or so you drive off the DMS that forms. But DMS will re-form as the wort cools. That's why you boil uncovered as well; the DMS will condense and roll back into the kettle. Wort that cools below about 170-180oF (forget the exact temps) will reform DMS until the wort reacheds about 100-105oF (again I may have exact temps wrong). You want to transition this range as fast as possible. Then AERATE (O2) the wort VERY well and then pitch the right amount of healthy viable yeast. Oh, a third: You really don't want to carry hot break aterial over to the fermenter; this reduces shelf life and beer quality. Cold break is OK; you can leave that. You will produce beer with no-chill brewing but it will not be as good as it can be. With all the water and energy used in chilling, breweries world-wide would do that if it were a viable option. They don't for very good reasons. Worth an experiment. Make 10 gallons (or whatever) and take 1/2 to a fermenter (no chill) and chill the other 1/2. Do everything else the same with them. Then taste the results. To be a good experiment you may have to repeat several times. Document your experiment and come speak at the AHA conference. David Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 13:13:49 -0500 From: "Gary Peyton" <gpeyton2 at comcast.net> Subject: Dry Hopping As an alternative to dry hopping, it seems as though soaking the hops in vodka would extract more of the volatile hop oils from hops than would water or wort, since the solubility of hydrocarbons like myrcene should be higher in ethanol than in water*. One could even use everclear (95%) or some dilution of it. There may be some more polar compounds left in the hops that would be less efficiently extracted by alcohol. I would have thought that these would be expected to be less important contributors to aroma, but apparently not so. Lots of good information here: http://beersensoryscience.wordpress.com/2010/11/30/glycosides/ . In addition, late-boil hops could also be added to generate the oxidation products like linalool and geraniol if wanted. Even better might be decanting the extract and using the remaining hops for the late-boil addition (read down to the part on "spent hop powder" in the above reference). So, the main thing this might accomplish would be decreasing the loss of the volatile aroma compounds. The extract could be added to the primary, secondary, or bottling bucket/keg. Comments? Results? *I don't have any numbers, but the Merck Index says beta-myrcene is "practically insoluble in water" but is "soluble in alcohol" (probably means 100% alcohol). Gary Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 16:29:14 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave Burley at charter.net> Subject: No chill brewing David Root, There is a lot to be said for skipping a step in brewing if it does not affect the outcome. However, you will find tons of printed testimonials about not exposing hot beer to the air before the yeast are active and able to absorb it. In my experience this hot oxidation is what ruins most amateur beers and is a charateristic which defines homebrewing in too many instances. " Cellar palate" is a common problem ( and why we have local contests) and can lead one to say "well my beer is OK" when in fact it has a major fault, to which you have become accustomed.. Your method of filling your fermenter from the bottom will minimize the oxidation, but you will still have it to some degree. Try a comparison of chilling vs not chilling of the same beer recipe and see if you can tell the diference by direct comparison.. Filling the fermenter from the bottom will likely minimize hot oxidation. Keep on Brewin', Dave Burley" Return to table of contents
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