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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Cappers, Cusinarts, DME, GF-Marin, and a question: (Jay Littlepage)
  RE: Homebrew Digest #605 (March 28, 1991)  (Dave Resch )
  Saving yeast, propane burners (Dan Needham)
  Dry Malt (Rick Myers)
  SAVING YEAST ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Catalog for Carolina Biological ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Re:  Aromatic hops (Bob Clark - Sun Engineering)
  dry malt extract (Marty Albini)
  Re:  dry malt extract (lg562)
  places in St. Louis (JBAUER)
  A Pair Of Perplexing Problems ("ASK ME IF I CARE...")
  Need 489, 490 & 491 ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Chimay, Lambic? Mais, Non! (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Chimay, Malaria (C.R. Saikley)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Thu, 28 Mar 91 07:51:49 PST
From: jayl at Corp.Sun.COM (Jay Littlepage)
Subject: Cappers, Cusinarts, DME, GF-Marin, and a question:

My two cents on a few recent postings:

I bought a Colonna capper mid-way through bottling my very first
batch.  I was using screw-top bottles (i'm older and wiser now) and
snapped the neck on 5 out of the first 10 bottles.  Eight years and
thousands of bottles later the Colonna is still going strong.  One of
my best purchases.

Cuisinart grinding: I got tired of crushing grain with a rolling pin
and started using the cweese.  It was easy but uneven; some hulls
weren't touched, others were obliterated, with the ratio dependent on
how many pulses you gave it.  I finally invested in a Corona and have
been very happy.  It's actually faster than the cuisinart, given that I
don't have to clean the corona to my wife's satisfaction after every
use :-)

DME:  I've been brewing entirely with extracts, as my one and only mash
attempt was not good.  I definitely go with DME over liquid extracts,
due to cost, ease of storage and handling, and better control over my
recipes.  The only time I use liquid is if I have something specific in
mind that I can't accomplish with DME - I like, for instance, a can of
John Bull dark in my stouts, and I'll use IREKS liquid extract for my
germanic recipes.

Great Fermentations of Marin:  I get nearly all of my ingredients from
Steinbart's in Portland or from one of the two GFs.  Service from both
GFs has been outstanding, in my experience.  I've had orders from both
appear on my porch within 36 hours of ordering (granted, I live 30
miles away).  In one instance, the date on the wyeast I ordered was 3
months old, so GF-Marin sent me two packages, just in case.  Good
folks.

Re-using slurrys, and my question:  I've re-used the yeast pack from my
primary in a number of batches by simply dumping into a sterilized
mason jar and refrigerating.  Never any problems.  I used a batch of
wyeast chico ale 4 times before I started getting suspicious.  My
biggest problem has been the length of time between batches in which I
want to use the same yeast - I brew 6-8 batches a year and vary the
styles I brew.  What would people recommend as a refrigerated "shelf
life" for the yeast before chucking it?

Jay

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Date: Thu, 28 Mar 91 07:51:32 PST
From: Dave Resch <resch at cookie.enet.dec.com>
Subject: RE: Homebrew Digest #605 (March 28, 1991) 

 
>We've tried a few attempts at brewing these (hops at the end of the boil, dry
>hopping etc) but have had not much success at the intense hop bouquet/flavor.
>Not the bitterness, that's relatively easy...
> 
> -Mikey (Mike Perrott, novak3 at violet.berkeley.edu)

Mike,

Being a confirmed Hophed, I have to reply.  I have been very successful with 
getting intense hop bouquet/flavor in my brews.  I brew primarily English 
Bitters, Pale Ales, and Porters.  I use only leaf hops which I buy directly from
Freshops (very good quality IMHO).  

For the best hop flavor, I add 3/4 to 1 ounce of hops at the end of the boil, 
right after I remove the kettle from the burner.  I let them steep for 10-15 
minutes and then begin cooling the wort with my immersion chiller.  For hop
bouquet, I dry hop.  My technique is to ferment in the primary for approximately 
one week and then rack to a secondary, adding the dry hops.  I let it continue in 
the secondary until fermentation completes (1-2 weeks). 

For my bitters, I have used upwards of 1 1/2 - 2 ounces of Willamettes (for dry 
hopping) for a 6 1/2 gallon batch. The Willamettes give a wonderful hop bouquet 
(again IMHO).  For my Pale Ales and Porters, I tend to use Cascades, but have 
found that I have to use less of them or they become overpowering.

Dave

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Date: Thu, 28 Mar 91 08:15:19 pst
From: Dan Needham <dann at hpsadlb.hp.com>
Subject: Saving yeast, propane burners
Full-Name: Dan Needham

There has been a number of comments on re-using yeast.  I'll add a
couple of comments.  First, I highly discourage capping yeast saved from
the bottom of a primary fermentor.  (BIG mess, repaint ceiling).  Use an
airlock.  Also I only re-use yeast one time.  It may be coincidence, but
there seems to be some degradation in flavor with subsequent batches.
Of course you can get more using laboratory re-culturing techniques.

There have recently been inquiries about propane burners.  I have seen
two types offered in stores and catalogs.  One is a 32,000 BTU burner
and the other is a 110,000 BTU burner.  The prices seem to range from
$40 to $75.  Note that I think the 110,000 BTU burner is the cheapest --
I don't have my catalogs in front of me.  

If you have a burner that you can recommend or discourage purchasing,
please post or e-mail your comments.  Please include as much detail
as you can (e.g. BTU rating, size, source, price).

Thanks for any help!

Dan Needham

P.S.  I just kegged up a batch for my new draft system.  It's a wheat
      beer for an Easter party -- I know what to bring to the pot
      luck ;-)


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Date: Thu, 28 Mar 91 9:23:08 MST
From: Rick Myers <cos.hp.com!hpctdpe!rcm at hp-lsd>
Subject: Dry Malt
Full-Name: Rick Myers

>       Has anyone ever done any brews using only dry malt as the primary
>       ingredient? If so how did it turn out?
> 
>       Are there any advantages/disadvantages to trying this? As I
>       understand it dry malt has approx. 20% more fermentables than
>       liquid malt extract.
> 
>       I'm thinking about doing this since dry malt is reasonably cheap
>       in bulk.


I quit buying canned extract and now use only dry malt, if I don't do
an all-grain brew.  You have much better control over your brews
using dry instead of syrup, as you don't know what else is in the
syrup besides malt - corn sugar is a common additive.  I use only
light dry malt, that way, I can make just about any beer I want.  If
I want to make a darker beer, I just use crystal/chocolate/black patent
malt as needed.

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Date: 28 Mar 91 11:28:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: SAVING YEAST

The recent thoughts about using your yeast slurry again and again is just 
what I wanted to hear.  I like the idea of reusing a yeast that has 
produced a fine beer.  I'm interested in saving the slurry, or a 
significant portion thereof for later use.  My initial thought would be to 
bottle a champagne bottle of it with a little fermented out beer in it for 
moisture.  I'd cap the bottle and keep it in the frig.  Will this work?  
I've been told by a homebrew supplier that one can keep yeast this way for 
up to two years.  This sounds long to me, but I'm not a biochemist.  
Comments anyone?

Dan Graham, WA6CNN
Beer made with the Derry air, (Derry, New Hampshire)


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Date: Thu, 28 Mar 91 10:54:55 EST
From: Dave Davis (508-392-2990) <daved at westford.ccur.com>

SUBSCRIBE Dave Davis

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Date: 28 Mar 91 11:45:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Catalog for Carolina Biological

No, no, no!   Don't pay $17 for their catalog.  Just give them a valid 
business name and address.  I just talked to them.  I told them exactly 
what I wanted their catalog for.  They said it would be $16.95, or free if 
sent to a business.  I explained that my business was a recording studio, 
not a yeast culturing establishment, they said it made no difference, just 
a business please, and a free catalog is on it's way.

Now, I would not encourage you to lie about a business name, but most of us 
either have our own, or work for somebody.  

Dan (get it for nothing) graham, WA6CNN
Beer made with the Derry air, (Derry, New Hampshire)



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Date: Thu, 28 Mar 91 08:45:40 PST
From: bobc at Eng.Sun.COM (Bob Clark - Sun Engineering)
Subject: Re:  Aromatic hops

>> From: novak3 at violet.berkeley.edu (Mike Perrott/Novak Group)
>> Subject: Hoppy beers
>> 
>> Of these Anchor Liberty is the weakest in terms of the hop bouquet etc,
>> but I thought it has a wider range.
>> 
>> We've tried a few attempts at brewing these (hops at the end of the
>> boil, dry hopping etc) but have had not much success at the intense hop
>> bouquet/flavor.

Anchor dry hops their Liberty Ale (so they said after the tour in Dec.).

I've been using a technique mentioned previously here in my last couple
of batches.  At kegging time, I make a "hop tea" by steeping 1 oz. of
Cascade hops in 2 cu. water for two hours at 120 deg. F.  Just before
adding to the keg, I mix the kegging sugar in, too (some may be concerned
about not boiling to sterilize, etc., but I have not had a problem).

I've found that this adds a very nice, green/herbal touch to the
aromatics (I'm describing this poorly).  It is, however, nothing like
the aromatics that Sierra Nevada has.  At any rate, I and my friends
like the results.

	Bob C.

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Date: Thu, 28 Mar 91 8:51:22 PST
From: Marty Albini <martya at sdd.hp.com>
Subject: dry malt extract

> From: hplabs!ardent!uunet!tc.fluke.COM!gamebird (Duane Smith)
> 
> 	Has anyone ever done any brews using only dry malt as the primary
> 	ingredient? If so how did it turn out?
 
	Yo! My most popular beer is a steam beer brewed with
five pounds of Australian dry malt extract. Turns out just
fine.

> 	Are there any advantages/disadvantages to trying this? As I
> 	understand it dry malt has approx. 20% more fermentables than
> 	liquid malt extract.

	Several advantages: it's much easier to store a
half-used container, much easier to measure, easier to use
when priming, and comes in handy when cooking. I can't think
of any disadvantages; in fact, unless I'm brewing something
exotic, it's all I use.

	As for fermentables, malt syrup is about 20% water by
weight. DME is basically anhydrous, so for a recipe calling
for five pounds of syrup I substitute four pounds of DME. This
works out to 1/.8, or 25% more fermentables per pound.

	Some tips: DME is voraciously hygroscopic. Store it in
an airtight container, or it will turn back into malt syrup
8<:^). When measuring, weigh, don't use volume. Powders can
settle quite a bit. Weigh out all you want to use before you
start the boil and fog up the kitchen, or at least keep the
container as far from the kettle as possible.
- --
_______________________________________Marty Albini___________
"If you're bent with artheritis, your bowels have got colitis,
you've gallopin' bollockitis and you're thinkin' it's time ye
died; if you've been a man of action, while you're lyin' there
in traction, you may get some satisfaction thinkin' `Jesus, at
least I tried.'"--Andy M. Stewart
phone    : (619) 592-4177
UUCP     : {hplabs|nosc|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!martya
Internet : martya at sdd.hp.com 
CSNET    : martya%hp-sdd at hplabs.csnet
US mail  : Hewlett-Packard Co., 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA

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Date: Thu, 28 Mar 91 09:57:57 PST
From: lg562 at koshland.pnl.gov
Subject: Re:  dry malt extract

   Date: Tue, 26 Mar 91 09:08:10 PST
   >From: hplabs!ardent!uunet!tc.fluke.COM!gamebird (Duane Smith)

   Has anyone ever done any brews using only dry malt as the primary
   ingredient? If so how did it turn out?

I made a dark amber ale from 3 lb dry light malt extract and 3 lb dry
dark malt extract.  It turned out pretty well.  But I think I also
used a pound or two of crystal malt, which always seems to improve the
beer over just using malt extracts.

Michael Bass
Molecular Science Research Center, K2-18
Battelle - Pacific Northwest Laboratory
Richland, Washington  99352
lg562 at pnl.gov


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Date: 28 Mar 91 13:21:39 EST
From: JBAUER at bat.bates.edu
Subject: places in St. Louis

I'm relaxed at home but want to be relaxed when I go to St Louis next
week for a conf.  Anyone with pointers about brewpubs, brewery tours
etc in StL would be greatly appreciated.

 Thanks in advance. (I'll miss my brown ale ...sigh...)
Jim
JBauer at Bat.Bates.Edu


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Date: Thu, 28 Mar 91 13:59 EST
From: "ASK ME IF I CARE..." <V057P673 at ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: A Pair Of Perplexing Problems

Hello, all.  This is my initium on this newsletter, so I'll ask for two
quick favors...

1) I have misplaced my copy of "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy", and my
next batch MUST be that nectar of the gods, Old Peculier.  If anyone has a
copy of that Dave Line work and can forward the recipe, I may be slurring
my spelling shortly.

2) Both places in Buffalo, NY, where I once got my homebrew supplies have
stopped dealing them.  Besides, I was ready to make the jump to massive bulk
purchases.  If anyone knows of a place that would be UPS Zone 2 or 3 to me,
(roughly between the Mason-Dixon, Ohio, and Connecticut) or even zone 4
(The Mississippi, North Carolina, Atlantic Ocean), I would again be highly
appreciative.

thanks,
 -Dr.D

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Date: 28 Mar 91 14:06:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Need 489, 490 & 491

The netlib archive for last september ks missing digests 489, 490 and 491.  
If any of you have these, could you email them to me?  I'm trying to get a 
complete collection.

Thanks very much.

Dan


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Date: Thu, 28 Mar 91 13:21:54 PST
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at decwrl.dec.com>
Subject: Chimay, Lambic? Mais, Non!

In HOMEBREW Digest #605, Ron Garrison asked:

>	...  Does the Chimay yeast or do any other of the Belgian 
>beers provide the same or similar yeast culture that is found in Lambics?

With a certain hesitation, I must say no.  While there are a
few similar components in the "inoculum" (both contain Saccharomyces
cerevisiae and at least one bacterial component), the effect is
altogether different.  The distinguishing factor in Chimay's flavor
profile is a range of spicy flavors, dominated by 4-vinyl guaiacol.
In lambics, sourness dominates, with a lactic acid tang being the
most noted flavor.  Some other Belgian beers share this
characteristic; Gouden Carolus and Rodenbach come to mind.  I
personally would be more inclined to try the "additive" method Guinard
suggested in his book, using successive inoculations of pure cultures.
The problem with trying to use bottle cultures for this purpose is the
sheer complexity of the fermentation:  at least three strains of yeast
and two of bacteria are needed to create something that tastes like a
lambic.  These critters all have very different life cycles, so in 
culturing the dregs of a lambic bottle (assuming you could find a
non-pasteurized one) you'd be getting the "winners", the strains
that were active most recently.  The strains from the early part of
the process would probably only be present in small numbers and with
questionable viability.  And to culture from something other than a
lambic would give you something else, something that is not likely
to taste much like a lambic.

Guinard spoke to our homebrew club (Gold Country Brewers'
Association) earlier this month, and said something I find my self
agreeing with.  He asked that if we make something that tastes like
a lambic, we not call it by a lambic name, unless we brewed it 
within 15 miles of Brussels and used the traditional materials 
and methods.  Like Port, Calvados, Armagnac, and the other classic 
beverages associated with a small geographic area, lambic deserves its
identity.  What happened to Champagne shouldn't happen to lambic,
kriek, and framboise.

	- Martin

= Martin A. Lodahl   			  Pacific*Bell Staff Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Thu, 28 Mar 91 15:32:42 PST
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Chimay, Malaria


With all the recent talk about culturing Chimay yeast, I thought I'd
share some of my past experiences.......

The first time I used Chimay yeast was in May of '89. The beer brewed
was christened "Trappist Monkey" and was one of four golds awarded at
the 1989 Sonoma County Fair. It was very tasty, and the two judges gave 
it scores of 37 & 39 on a 40 point scale. Here is the recipe, which is 
anything but authentic.

	8 lbs Klages pale malt
	4 lbs Munich malt (10L)
	1 lb crystal malt (40L)
	1 lb malted wheat
	1 lb wheat flakes (unmalted)
	2 oz chocolate malt (uncracked)

	1 lb dark brown sugar

	2 oz Cascade hops (I didn't have time to age them 3 years!)

	1 qt starter cultured from Chimay dregs


Mash temp 158F, pH 5.3
1 hour mash, final temp 155F
Mash out with 1 1/2 gal boiling water, resultant temp 168F
Sparge  at  168F, sparge water acidified with lactic acid to pH 6.5
Collect 8 gals sweet wort
Add brown sugar
Boil 1 1/2 hours
Add all hops (60 min boil)
Cool to 70F (counterflow chiller)
Pitch Chimay starter
Single stage fermentation, 2 months, temp ????
Prime with 44 oz sweet wort (from the original brew, stored very carefully)
Bottle, yield 6 gals
Starting gravity 1.072, terminal gravity 1.014

There's an unusual story behind the 2 month single stage fermentation.
After pitching, the carboy was placed in a water bath in my basement,
and I went off to Indonesia. After my return, subsequent hospitalization
and recovery from malaria, I decided that it was time to check on my poor
neglected brew. When I lifted the lid on the water bath, I was horrified
to see that everything (carboy, water, airlock) was covered with a thick
green fuzzy mold. A little too in keeping with Belgian tradition for my 
tastes; I guess the bleach added to the water bath had long since
evaporated. Fortunately, the carboy's interior was slime free. With 
great trepidation, I tasted the dubious brew, and religious bliss ensued.
I wouldn't recommend this fermentation technique to everyone, especially
the part about the malaria, but it worked out well. Maybe I should've
saved some of that fuzzy stuff....................

questions?
comments?
advice?

 -CR


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #606, 03/29/91
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