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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  water treatment (CONNELL)
  generations of yeast (Chip Hitchcock)
  hallucinogenic Jamaican S ("KATMAN.WNETS385")
  Things to see in Milwaukee (Tom Quinn 4-nnnn)
  Water Conservation (Russ Pencin)
  carbonating kegs (C.R. Saikley)
  Re: Repitching (Marc Rouleau)
  Flaked Maize (C.R. Saikley)
  Soda keg fermentation (hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!att!drutx!homer)
  Re: Calculating IBU's (hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!att!drutx!homer)


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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 08:21 CST
From: CONNELL at vax.cord.edu
Subject: water treatment

My local water system tells me that our water has 80-100ppm of
temporary hardness and a pH of around 9.3.  How much of a problem
should that be in brewing lighter, more delicate beers?  I've tried to
deal with the problem by mixing tap water with distilled at about a
50-50 ratio.  I still get an excessively high pH in my mash.  Any
comments?

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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 11:37:26 EST
From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: generations of yeast

pbmoss!malodah at decwrl.dec.com writes:

>				Commercial yeast production is
> conducted in aerated media to maximize the reproduction rate, and
> naturally, the effect of this is to give a significant "edge" to the
> yeast that can most effectively reproduce in an aerobic environment.
... 
> respiratory-deficient strain, called "petit" by Pasteur.  These will
> not be at the same disadvantage in a culture that is repeatedly
> repitched and therefore spends most of its life in an anaerobic
> environment, and over time will become a larger fraction of the
> total population.

This doesn't seem to make sense biologically. I can see that repitching
might not select for respiration \as/ \much/ \as/ true aerobic reculturing.
However, the respiratory phase is where most reproduction happens; this
would suggest that if you pitch a packet/starter/culture/slurry with a
certain R/r ratio (where R is normal and r is respiratory-deficient), the
slurry at the end of fermentation would have a higher R/r ratio unless so
much yeast was pitched that there was no respiratory phase. The amount of
time in the anaerobic phase shouldn't matter, since very little
reproduction happens then (natural selection only works if the survivors
reproduce). Even if r were more attenuative, that should simply mean that R
would go dormant first---you might get different ratios in different layers
but most of the recommendations seem to start with stirring up all the
sediment and saving some of the resulting slurry.
   As a tangent to this, I'd note the opinion/experience of several Wort
Processors that single-cell cultures tend not to be as attenuative as their
sources until they've gone through a couple of repitchings---suggesting a
positive correlation between respiration and attenuation?



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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 12:10:45 -0500
From: lee at raj2.tn.cornell.edu (Hasung Lee)

	I have been a sourdough bread maker for seven years now.
Recently my husband Joe returned from duty at NATO in Brussels where
he acquired a taste for Belgian Lambics.  He recently took up
homebrewing to reproduce the taste he couldn't find in America.
Initially he tried using different yeasts, however, he was unable to
achieve that authentic Lambic "bite".  
	Last month a friend from Belgium visited and brought some Chimay
beer.  Joe cultured the yeast from this bottle and made what was his
best Lambic effort to date.  BUT he was still not satisfied with the
results.  
	On the advice of our local brew supplier, who explained the open
fermentation vats found in Belgium, Joe decided to recreate in our house
the atmosphere found in Belgium.  To do this he took the sediment from a
Lambic batch, thinned it with water, put it in a windex bottle, and
sprayed it all around our kitchen.  After a few days for incubation in
the kitchen Joe brewed another Lambic which he let cool overnight in an
open bucket.  The resulting beer was exquisite.
	Unfortunately, my subsequent efforts at baking sourdough bread
have proved disastrous.  I no longer can make anything that tastes
remotely like the award winning bread I used to bake.
	This has put a tremedous strain on our marriage as a result.
While my husband Joe is ecstatic about his authentic Lambic, I have lost
my impetus for pursuing what was once a most rewarding hobby.  I mean if
he can have his hobby, why can't I have mine.
	Does anyone have any suggestions, short of divorce, so that we
can return to our normal lifestyle?  Perhaps there is a way we can
change the atmosphere in the kitchen periodically?  Please respond if
anyone has any clues as to what we can do.

Fretfully yours.

Sara

Postings or personal responses would be appreciated.
Internet-lee at raj2.tn.cornell.edu



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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 17:20 GMT
From: "KATMAN.WNETS385" <6790753%356_WEST_58TH_5TH_FL%NEW_YORK_NY%WNET_6790753 at mcimail.com>
Subject: hallucinogenic Jamaican S



     Date: 04-Apr-91      Time: 10:43 AM       Msg: EXT00807







How do!
J. Muller asked in Homebrew digest from April 4 about Jamaican Stout and N2O. I
don't know about the N2O but if the beer was brought into the country illegally
it might have had ganja as an ingredient. I doubt that US Customs would let
anyone bring it in legally as ganja (marijuana) is a controlled substance. On
many of the caribbean islands they make something called "bush tea" which is
tea from the leaves of indigenous plants or bushes. Often it is made from
ganja. I would guess that putting it beer would give something to go along with
your Alice B. Toklas brownies.

Lee Katman == Thirteen/WNET == New York, NY

=Do not= use REPLY or ANSWERBACK, it doesn't get to me.

INTERNET katman.wnets385%wnet_6790753 at mcimail.com


****POS DUPE****

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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 12:13:37 -0600
From: lhoff at acc.stolaf.edu

Well gang, I have now brewed my first three batches.  All are seemingly
healthy and at least one is very tasty (the other two are too young to
tell as of yet).

If I may make a suggestion which could conceivably save water, time, and
risk of infection:
For my second and third batches I purchased the water from a bottled water
company in Minneapolis (Glenwood Inglewood).  It comes in glass 5 gallon
carboys for only $10.55 (deposit for the carboy is $6) and has three 
advantages as far as I can see.
1) good water
2) sanitary as all heck
3) cheap carboy
The way we used it was to pour some of the bottled water into the brewkettle
and brew with it with the rest sitting in the carboy (covered for sanitation)
in a cool place.  As you can see, there is no rinsing of the fermenter to 
get rid of chlorine and when the batch is finished, simply return the carboy
to the bottled water company for a refill (for $4.55).  This way you will
always have good water (use spring water) and a clean fermenter.  Also,
there is no problem with keeping the carboys if you wish.  I should also make
it clear that you receive a new carboy every time, just like beer returnables.

It really seemed to work well for me and I think I'll do it all the time
from now on.

If anyone has any questions, just e-mail me.

Lanny Hoff
lhoff at stolaf.edu

   

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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 12:21:37 -0600
From: lhoff at acc.stolaf.edu


Fellow NetBrewers,
I am seeking any and all recipes that I can find.  If any of you have a 
computer file of recipes or anything like that, please e-mail them to:
	lhoff at stolaf.edu
I would be eternally grateful.
Thanks much,
Lanny Hoff


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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 12:48:35 CST
From: quinnt at turing.med.ge.com (Tom Quinn 4-nnnn)
Subject: Things to see in Milwaukee

Well, I hardly consider myself an expert on area brewpubs and the
like, but since there hasn't been much response to the queries about
Milwaukee, I'll give it a shot.

If you visit on a weekend, you owe it to yourself to try to get to the
Sprecher Brewing Company.  They are a small microbrewery just south of
downtown.  Their 'tour' consists of a visit to their brewing room, a
discussion of their processes, and of course unlimited sampling of
their brews (at least until the next group comes through).  Their
beers are excellent - be sure especially to try their Special Amber,
the Milwaukee Weiss, and (yes!) their Root Beer.  Call (414) 272-BEER
to get the tour times.  Their address is 730 West Oregon Street.  To
find it, head south on Water street from Wisconsin Avenue downtown.
After approx. 1.5  miles look for Oregon Street.  Turn right and drive
west to 730 West - you'll see signs.  The brewery is tucked back
behind some other buildings.

If you are unable to make it to the brewery, many of Milwaukee's
restaurants now have some of their brews on tap.  Try Saz's on west
State Street (just a few blocks west of the Miller Brewery).  Fun
place, good ribs, and many good brews on tap.

Though other friends of mine disagree, my advice is to avoid the Water
Stree Brewery, a restaurant on north Water street.  I have never
enjoyed any of their beers - I'm still convinced they were serving a
bad batch of stout on St. Patrick's Day, figuring that no one could
tell the difference.  Yech.

There's a newer microbrewery in town called the Lakefront Brewery.
I've never been there, but I've heard good things about their beers
and their tours, which are on Saturdays at 1:30 and 2:30.  They're at
818-A East Chambers, phone is 372-8800.  If you have ever ordered
brewing supplies from Mark May at The Basement Brewmaster, look him up
at the Lakefront, which I guess is his day job.

Another favorite pub is Zur Krone, an old German tavern at 839 south
2nd street.  If you only have a short time to visit, and you want to
experience a true Milwaukee beer hall, this is a good choice.  Not the
place to go for ferns, food, or elegant atmosphere.  They have a huge
selection of bottled and tap beers.

And of course there are the the huge lawnmower beer factories in town.
Miller and Pabst run tours throughout the week (see how to make
Genuine Draft Light!).  They can be fun just to see the sheer size of
their operations, and learn a lot of brewing history.  A great
Saturday can be had by hitting a mid-afternoon Miller tour, then sit
and listen to the live music in their outdoor beer garden before
wandering over to County Stadium to catch a Brewers' game.  Makes
drinking the beer worthwhile.

So here at least is a weekend's worth of beer-related tourism.  I'd
love to hear about any other favorite haunts of the locals, since I'm
still relatively new to the area.

Tom

===========================================================================
 Tom Quinn		  ||
 Consultant at		  || uucp: {uunet!crdgw1|sun!sunbrew}!gemed!quinnt
 G.E. Medical Systems	  || internet: quinnt at gemed.ge.com
 Milwaukee, WI 53201-414  ||
===========================================================================

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Date: 4 April 1991 11:27:18 am
From: pencin at parcplace.com (Russ Pencin)
Subject: Water Conservation

I don't post often to this discussion, but really enjoy the topics.
After reading all of the Water discussions, I realized that I might actually be
doing something right and semi-unique.  I am an all grain brewer, currently
brewing six gallon batches of wort.  The largest water saving area, IMHO, is
the cooling phase.
I saw a design for an immersion chiller at the Oakland Beer Conference that
really seemed to make sense.  The design has two verticle 1/2 inch copper tubes
that are 12 inches tall, capped at the bottom and fitted with a 3/8 inch
tubbing orface at the top of each. The tubes are connected by six 30 inch
single coils of 3/8 inch copper tubing silver soldered at 1 inch increments. 
Cold water enters the top of one verticle and equally distributes itself
through the six short coils and exits thru the top of the other verticle pipe, 
thus increasing the effective cooling surface area many many times over the
standard single coil type.  Having built this cooler, I found myself with about
20 feet of tubing left over.  So, I made a flat coil that will sit in the
bottom of a small dutch oven that I have.  The night before I brew I place the
flat coil in the dutch oven,  fill the dutch oven about half full of water, and
put it in the freezer.  When I get ready to cool the wort,  I run the kitchen
tap water thru the frozen flat coil into the vertical immersion chiller and out
to a 7 gallon carboy.  It takes 28 minutes, and between 5-6 gallons to chill
the 6 gallon batch to 70 degrees.  This is mainly accomplished by constantly
monitoring the output temperture ( by feel ) adjusting the kitchen tap to keep
the output just slightly warm.  The carboy water is then used to wash a load of
clothes, which includes the towels and stuff from brewing.
	Well, that's the way I do it.  Hope it helps someone else..

Russ
Better Brewing Bureau Bulletin Board
(415)-964-4356	(3/12/2400 baud - 24 hours)


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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 11:35:07 PST
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: carbonating kegs
Full-Name: 


Dan Needam writes:

     I recently kegged up a batch of wheat beer in my new draft system.
     I followed a chart of CO2 PSI vs. Temp for different volumes of
     CO2 for different styles of beer.  At 42 degrees F.  I used 17.5
     PSI to (hopefully) yield about 2.9 Volumes of CO2 in the beer.  I
     rocked the keg around for a few minutes while the CO2 was being
     applied through the down-tube via a beverage fitting.  Four days
     later when I tapped the keg it was nearly flat!  


Dan does this mean that the CO2 was applied for only a few minutes ?
If so, there's your problem. Put the CO2 into the gas valve and leave
it there. I've never investigated the minimum time required to carbonate,
but I've applied gas on Thursday and had fizzy beer on Friday.

Hope this helps

CR 

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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1991 16:32:30 EST
From: Marc Rouleau <mer6g at fuggles.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Subject: Re: Repitching

Many thanks to those of you who have participated in this discussion
of yeast reuse.  I have concluded that pouring fresh cool wort on the
dregs of a just-bottled batch is well worth a try.  I have a few more
questions.  I'm brewing on Saturday, and there won't be another HBD
before then, so could you cc: your response to me at marc at Virginia.EDU?

According to Martin Lodahl, over time I will breed a respiratory-
deficient strain of yeast due to the fact that my population spends
most of its time in an anaerobic state.  This seems intuitively
sensible to me.

Please correct me if I have this wrong, but my impression is that
the aerobic phase is mainly useful in order to get the yeast to
multiply.  In fact, it's really something of a necessary evil, since
the yeast produce various unpleasant odors and flavors during this
phase.  Once in an anaerobic state they absorb the off flavors from
the aerobic phase and start making good beer.

So from this I conclude that as long as the pitching rate is very
high (as it would be if I use all the yeast from the previous
fermentation), I should minimize aeration of the cool wort.  Is this
the case?

Also, is there any reason to care if my yeast are respiratory-deficient
as long as I have a whole bunch of them?  Perhaps it's actually
desirable that they be adapted to anaerobic activity?  What are the
long-term (a year or more) effects on a yeast population of protection
from oxygen?

    -- Marc Rouleau


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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 13:54:56 PST
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Flaked Maize

Dan Strahs writes:

	I've been drinking my first batch of beer.  It's a bit thin and
	the head doesn't last long, though it is well carbonated. I think
	I can solve this problem by adding flaked maize to the original
	recipe.  Is this correct?

I wouldn't recommend adding flaked maize to a brew at all unless you 
are willing to mash. Maize has lots of starches, but no enzymes to 
convert the unfermentable starches to fermentable sugars. You don't 
want these starches in your beer. 

Many commercial breweries add corn to their brews, but not for its
body building properties. They add it because it's cheaper than barley,
and it imparts less color, flavor and body. The inclusion of corn in
the mash allow them to produce a beer that caters to the average American
palate. (i.e. thin and watery!)

You'll probably get more satisfying results by adding crystal malt or
carapils. One or two pounds can easily be added to a five gallon extract 
batch. It is best to avoid boiling the grains, as this can result in
extraction of undesirable tannins from the husks. One way around this is
to simply place the grains in your brew water before heating. Then as you 
are bringing the water to a boil, remove the grains when the temperature 
reaches 165-170. This should allow you to get most of the sugars, dextrins,
etc. from the grains and leave most of the nasties behind.

Happy Brewing
CR


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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 21:42:57 mst
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!att!drutx!homer
Subject: Soda keg fermentation

I wrote the article about soda keg fermentation that is in the 1988
special issue of Zymurgy.

My method requires acquiring some extra keg parts.
   1 two connector bodies, remove the valves.
   2 one gas side dip tube.
   3 one liquid side dip tube, cut to half length.
To ferment more than one beer at a time you need more valveless connector
bodies and gas side dip tubes.  You can get the extra parts from Foxx
or those that sell used kegs have parts from kegs that would not seal.

For the blow off stage of fermentation, fit the keg with the two valveless
connector bodies each with a gas side tube.  Attach a blow off hose to
each connector body, secure with a hose clamp, and place free ends in water.
The blow off hoses fit tight over the outside of the connector body.
Using two blowoff hoses is in case of cloging in one hose, this may be
over kill.  If you were to use one blowoff tube, then the other connector
body (with valve) could get clogged up from the blowoff.

After blow off is done, replace one valveless connector body with a normal
connector body.  Place a fermentation lock on the other valveless connector
body.  A short hose for the connector body and one for the fermentation lock
and a reducer are required for this.

The half length liquid tube is used to take hydrometer readings.  This
avoids any reading problems from trub or yeast at the bottom.

For racking I use a normal length liquid tube.  The first cup or so will
have sediment so I discard this.  I stop racking when the sediment at
the end is in the tube (clear plastic).  I use two sets of hoses and
fittings for this.

This is all done with Firestone pin lock 5 gallon kegs.  My fermentation
kegs do not have over pressure valves, making one less thing to clean
and sanitize around, hence the dual blow off hoses.

Jim Homer
att!drutx!homer


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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 91 21:43:22 mst
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!att!drutx!homer
Subject: Re: Calculating IBU's

Byron Burch gave me the following values for hop utilization:

Minutes
Boiling
> 45         28-30%
15 to 45      8-12%
< 15           5%

There is an acid reaction at 45 minutes boiling time, that causes the
non-linerity of the utilization.  He uses hop additions at 60, 30,
15 minutes boiling time.

Also note that cool down time will affect utilization.  If you
change batch volume, but do not change wort chiller, you will
get higher bitterness.

There is also a factor for those of us who boil a partial batch
and top up with water, also those brewing beer higher than 1.050.

           GA = (GB - 0.5)/0.2      if GB > 1.050

           GA = 0  otherwise

GA gravity adjustment
GB gravity of boiling wort
The formula for IBU is divided by 1 + GA

This is from the 1990 special issue of Zymurgy.

Remember your mileage (utilization) may vary.

Jim Homer
att!drutx!homer


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #611, 04/05/91
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