---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Sam Adams clone (TSAMSEL)
  Brewpubs/Supply Stores/Good Beer in Florida (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Brewpubs in Cleveland ?  (YES! A really good one) (11-Apr-1991 0908)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #612 (April 10, 1991) (JEFF4320)
  Re: A Canadian Sending Beer to USA (Chris Shenton)
  Stuck Fermentation? (Tom Nolan)
  Re:  Any Brewpubs in Evanston, IL??? (flowers)
  Beer in Denmark (GERMANI)
  Ireks, green bottles, dry hopping, DME priming... (Ralph L McCallister)
  bottles ("John E. Lenz")
  Sake, anyone?? (Brian D. Moore)
  oxidation during sparge (mcnally)
  dry hopping, Evanston, IL (BIOSCTH)
  1st attempt at lager beer (Russell L. Oertel)
  Coffee grinders (John Freeman)
  Dry hopping (John Freeman)
  sanitary airlocks and carboy handles (mage!lou)
  Re:  Dry hopping / aromatics (Bob Clark - Sun Engineering)
  Midwest Brewpubs (C.R. Saikley)
  Wheat Extracts (C.R. Saikley)
  Grain Steeping Temps, Sulfur, Dry Hopping w/ Plugs (hersh)
  Sending Beer (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  re-culturing from an iffy batch ?? (Carl West x4449)
  Tubing and "Psuedo" Beer (Jack Webb)
  Dry Hopping (C.R. Saikley)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #612 (April 10, 1991) (Don't ya wanna hang out with the Bleach Boys, baby)
  Rotokeg, carbonation (Bill Crick)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
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[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Apr 1991 8:07:38 EDT
From: TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV
Subject: Sam Adams clone

Re: Just like Sam Adams, approximately.
  My first 2 two batches were with Coopers Australian Lager kits. I used them
with corn sugar and a cup of M&F crystal malt. Some people claimed these were
a lot like Sam Adams lager. I assume one could procede from here bracket the
formula.
  (Question: why have I seen more varieties of Sam Adams at beer stores in
Colorado than in the Richmond/DC/Baltimore area?)
  Also: Stapleton airport takes a dim view of homebrew (outgoing, that is)
Ted (Tsamsel at USGSRESV.BIT)

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Date: Thursday, 11 Apr 1991 09:18:06 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Brewpubs/Supply Stores/Good Beer in Florida

I will be traveling to the vicinity of the Kennedy Space Center
(Coco Beach, Florida).  Anyone know of brewpubs, supply stores,
etc. that are fairly close (i.e., reachable by car in half hour
or so)?   Thanks.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 06:22:11 PDT
From: 11-Apr-1991 0908 <hannan at gnpike.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Re: Brewpubs in Cleveland ?  (YES! A really good one)

Jeff Chambers [motcid!red!chambers at uunet.UU.NET] writes Brewpubs in Cleveland?

Yes. I recently returned from Cleveland, my 2nd trip there in less than a 
year, and my 2nd visit to the Great Lakes Brewing Company confirmed that
this place has some truly great beer!  Here's some details:

	Great Lakes Brewing Company
	2516 Market Street, Cleveland
	771-4404
	
	"Located across from the West Side Market 
	 West 25th Street and Lorain Ave"

It's close to Cleveland Municipal Stadium (the big round stadium seen off the 
Cleveland Shoreway/Rt 2).   On the map look for Rt 42 and the intersections
of this road with Rt 2, Rt 90, and/or Rt 71.   It's close to either of these
intersections.

The beer there is German style.  2 weeks ago I sampled the Einbeck (a 'special'
single or double type bock typical of a sweet malty German style bock beer) 
and the Heisman (a regular beer there, Dortmunder style - nice and hearty
sweet finish).  

I rank the GLBC either #1 or #2 for the best microbreweries in the Northeast,
in competition with the Cambridge Brewing Co for the #1 slot.  I've never
been to any places on the left coast, nor anywhere south of Ohio, but this
place is a must visit.   The Brewmasters Pie washed down with a Heisman made
my day *-)

For bottled beer, Erin Beer, made by the Cleveland Brewing Co, is also very
good if you can't wait till you get to the GLBC.

Ken

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1991 09:41 EST
From: JEFF4320%SYBIL%RTI.BITNET at ncsuvm.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #612 (April 10, 1991)

PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM YOUR MAILING LIST:

JEFF91%SYBIL at RTI

THANKS........

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 09:56:58 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: A Canadian Sending Beer to USA

On Wed, 10 Apr 91 12:10:42 CDT, Mike Charlton <umcharl3 at ccu.UManitoba.CA> said:

Mike> We went to UPS.  Unfortunately, they demanded that they know
Mike> *exactly* what was in the package for customs.  This meant that we
Mike> had to tell them it was beer.  Despite our insistence that it was
Mike> alright to send it for analytical purposes, they refused to ship it.

Mike> Finally, we went to Canada Post, but apparently they can't ship
Mike> alcohol for any reason. Furthermore, the customs officials mentioned
Mike> that even if you send it by courier, you have to clear the package
Mike> with US customs before you send it.

I once sent a couple bottles of homebrew to a friend in Turkey, via the
Post Office. I wasn't expecting to ask what the contents were, so after a
moment of confusion, I said ``Vinegar'', figuring that by the time it got
to Turkey, that's what it might be.

Probably not a bright idea, if I got found out, but it did get there.

These laws are primitive, but so are the politicians who make them up.

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 10:07:07 -0400
From: nolan at lheavx.DNET.NASA.GOV (Tom Nolan)
Subject: Stuck Fermentation?

A friend of mine brewed his first batch of beer last week. He used 
one can of Laaglander "Irish Ale" kit (3.3 lbs) and 3 lbs of
light dry malt extract. He didn't take an initial gravity reading.
As far as I can tell, he did everything right, aerated the wort
before pitching the rehydrated yeast. The fermentation peaked
at about 48 hours after pitching, at only about 1 "glub" every
3 seconds. Three days later it stopped. The final gravity is
1.028, steady for four days now. He used the yeast that came with
the kit.

So is this supposed to be a sweet beer? Or might it benefit by another
yeast addition to try to bring it down to what I would figure the
normal range should be (1.012 or so)? I guess that would mean it
should be re-oxygenated.

Any advice would keep us from worrying too much.
Thanks
Tom

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1991 09:39:07 -0600
From: flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re:  Any Brewpubs in Evanston, IL???

Evanston, including Northwestern University, is dry.

 -Craig Flowers  (flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu)


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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 10:52 EST
From: GERMANI%NSLVAX at Venus.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Beer in Denmark

Greetings,

I find myself in the fortunate postion of having to attend a 
conference in AArhus Denmark.  Does anyone out there have any information
on things to do in Denmark (beer related stuff of course, but 
any other helpful info will also be appreciated)?  I definately will be 
spending a few days in Copenhagen.  I feel that a trip to the Carlsberg
Brewery is a must, especially since the Carlsberg Foundation is partially
funding me (and they didn't even know that I was a homebrewer).

Thanks,
	Joe

Bitnet: GERMANI at YALEVMS
Decnet: 44421::GERMANI

P.S.  I Thought some of you might enjoy this:

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Fill with mingled cream and amber,/ I will drain that glass again.
Such hilarious visions clamber/ through the chamber of my brain--
Quaintest thoughts--queerest fancies/ come to life and fade away;
What care I how time advances:
I am drinking ale today.			Poe

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 10:14:12 -0500
From: ralph at ecn.purdue.edu (Ralph L McCallister)
Subject: Ireks, green bottles, dry hopping, DME priming...

Ireks, green bottles, dry hopping, priming with DME:

I promise to keep this short.

Ireks, Dave Miller states that when brewing a wheat beer you
should use a 2:1 ratio of wheat to malted barley.  This year
I made a wheat beer using 6.6 lb. can of Ireks and 3.3 lb. can
of MF light malt extract.  I also dry hopped with an ounce of
Saaz as well about 2.5 oz. of boiling hops.  This turned out to
be a very pleasent surpise.  I really like this beer and would
recommend using this ratio, either with grain or extract.  I
would like to add about a lb. of cara pils next time and an
extra half ounce of dry hops.  I would NOT add any corn sugar
to this recipe.  This is a semi-sweet brew with a nice flavor
and after taste.  Try it, you'll like it!!!  I highly recommend
Ireks for your wheat beers.

Green bottles, I bottle in clear, green, and brown bottles.  I 
keep them out of the sunlight while in storage.  I have
never had any problems.  If you bottle in clear or green keep
them covered.  If light cannot get to your bottles, they will
never know the difference!

Dry hopping, it can be a pain, you will lose a little more brew
when you rack from the secondary to bottling bucket or bottles,
but it is well worth the effort.  I think that an ounce or two
depending on the alpha acid content, added to the secondary will
give that little extra spark to a beer.  I add mine after I am
done racking, I don't know about adding them before racking.
They float on the top and after 5 weeks in the secondary they
did not sink to the bottom.  I would be interested in knowing
how it turns out when they are added to the bottom.

Priming with DME, I thought I read that DME has about 70% of
fermentable sugars.  A 1:1 swap with corn sugar should work.
I think that you could even go with about 30% more DME than
sugar and be alright.  I had a friend of mine split a batch,
priming 1/2 with corn sugar and the other with DME.  The one
visible difference is that the ones primed with DME are a
bit more cloudy, this may work out in time.  Other than that
I could not taste any difference and the heads on both samples
seem to be about equal.

A great plus about brewing your own, is that you can try anything you want!!!
Ain't it great!!

	Ralph McCallister  ralph at ecn.purdue.edu

  ....Something going to happen..What's Going to Happen..something wonderful..

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Date:         Thu, 11 Apr 91 10:51:54 EDT
From: "John E. Lenz" <JELJ at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      bottles

I noticed in HB Digest #613 (today's issue) that I neglected to mention that
the 2-year-old Weizen that I mentioned was in grren bottles, perhaps the
comment will make more sense now.

>Kurt Swanson asks (in #613) about using a coffee grinder for crushing malt.

I have done so in the past, you will need to set it for the coarsest grind it
will make. Depending on the type of grinder you have this may or may not be
adequate for malt milling, be careful not to pulverize the husks too much.
You may also want to check with your local food co-op to see if they carry a
Corona grain mill, or some other brand.  I got mine at the Moscow, Idaho
co-op for just over $30, as compared to the $45-50 price tag this item
typically carries in the Homebrew supply catalogs.

>Gene Schultz (also in #613) asks about West Coast suppliers of malt extract

You might want to check out Great Fermentations, there are two, one in Santa
Rosa and one in Marin,  Byron Burch owns one of these.  I used to order from
them and recall that they carried a bulk extract syrup, though I'm not sure
what they had in the dry category.  As I recall their prices were quite good
and the service was excellent.  I think that I dealt with the Santa Rosa
outfit, but am not sure, though I know that it was the one that Byron does
not run.


A general comment regarding brewpubs, breweries, etc..  Michael Jackson has
a brand new edition of the "Pocket Guide to Beer" which is an excellent
reference with very good coverage of the brewing scene in the U.S.
as well as the other major brewing nations around the world.  I highly
recommend this to anyone who is travelling and needs good information on
what brews they can expect to encounter, or should be looking for, along
the way.

As to airlock contents, I have been using Wild Turkey lately, seems that a
malt-based distilled product shouldn't hurt the beer if it comes in contact
with it.

And lastly, Ted(TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV) you have my sympathy on the demise
of your carboy and the loss of your beer.  Had you ever subjected the carboy to
a physical shock of any sort?  If not you probably just got a defective one.  I
try to handle my carboys very carefully, I have some plastic milk crates (the
kind that half-pint cartons are delivered in) and find that these are
just the right size for both 5 gal and 25 litre carboys and provide some
protection when setting them down, especially when they are full.

Cheers,

Dr. John

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 10:32:47 CDT
From: Brian D. Moore <bdm at spacsun.rice.edu>
Subject: Sake, anyone??


     OK, so it looks like my current batch of sake may have myco'd on me,
so now is the time to ask: as the local supply store carries rice extract,
does anyone have an all-extract recipe for sake?  Or at least the 
utilization percentage (a la the fabled 25% increase in dryy vs. canned
malt extract)?

Brian Moore
CEO -- Bach Us Winery -- a fugue in every bottle

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 08:32:44 -0700
From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Subject: oxidation during sparge


As I was sparging a recent mash, I started thinking about all the 
pouring and splashing going on.  I'm pretty careful when I sparge,
but it seems basically impossible to avoid a good deal of air contact.
Is oxidation a potential problem at this stage?  Is it avoidable?
(Someday I'll build a recirculating infusion mash system, probably
about the time I build my own space shuttle.)

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 10:07:55 CDT
From: BIOSCTH at UMCVMB.MISSOURI.EDU
Subject: dry hopping, Evanston, IL

Hello Homebrewers --
On dryhopping ... I've had great success with a no-worries approach.  I
just dump pellets or fresh/whole hops into the secondary and rack the
beer onto them.  They settle out after 10-14 days.  If the secondary
fermentation is particularly vigorous I sometimes add another dose of
hops after the bubbling slows down -- I don't want all those wonderful
aromas carried off by the CO2.  I wouldn't recommend boiling the *dry*
hops at all.  The aroma-causing compounds are very volatile and some of
them will be lost in even a short boil.The brew's EtOH, pH, and the hops
themselves seem to be enough to keep rogue microbes from getting
established.
Brewpubs in Evanston ... Not likely.  Evanston is the home of the
Women's Temperance League -- the teetotaling biddies that were largely
responsible for swinging public sentiment in favor of Prohibition.
Although things may have changed since I lived in the Chicago area,
Evanston used to be the only *dry* town in Illinois.  When I was in high
school it finally became legal to buy beer & wine in restaurants.  The
only good thing I know about Evanston, beer-wise that is, is that it's
on the northern border of The City of Broad Shoulders.  Get a cab and go
to the Goose Island Brewery.

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 09:13:28 CDT
From: russo at carlos.sps.mot.com (Russell L. Oertel)
Subject: 1st attempt at lager beer

I've learned alot reading this forum over the past two months,
and now I think it's time I make my first posting.  I've been
brewing since last July, and am presently working on my 6th and
7th batches.

I decided to make my first attempt at a lager beer (an American-style
bock, actually) and I don't have any experience as to the timeframes
required to make a lager.  At the moment, I don't have the resources
to keep 5 gallons of beer chilled to 45-50 degrees, so I am making
a 1-gallon "experimental" batch.  What has surprised me about this
batch is the length of time it has sustained very active fermentation.
It took a couple of days for it to get started, but it has been very
active (15-20 glugs/minute, but remember, this is only 1 gallon) for
more than a week.  How long can I expect this to go on?  I'm not
worrying, just curious.

The other thing I was wondering about is how long should I age it?  I
was planning, once the fermentation is basically done, to put the
gallon jar in the fridge with the lid on, loosening the lid every day
or so to relieve any pressure that may build up.  Before I do this I
plan to make sure that the fermentation is going *very* slowly.  Is
this not a smart thing to do?  With my current setup, I don't think
I have many other options (not until I can get my dedicated fridge).
Maybe I should just bottle it when the fermentation slows down?

Thanks for any advice,
Russ Oertel
russo at carlos.sps.mot.com


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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 11:15:48 CDT
From: jlf at poplar.cray.com (John Freeman)
Subject: Coffee grinders

> Subject: Re: cracking/crushing/grinding grains...
> 
> Does anyone use a home coffee grinder to crush grains? If so, how effective is
> this?  I have one of these things, and granted one can't grind too much at a
> time, it would be nice to use this thing for something, as I don't drink coffee.
> 

I used to use a coffee grinder with my hand drill to provide power.
It was slow (about eight minutes per pound) and didn't do a good job.  
I didn't know how bad it was till I bought a Corona mill.  The
Corona takes a minute or two per pound and is much more uniform.

My advice - get a Corona and don't waste time with a coffee grinder.

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 11:12:40 CDT
From: jlf at poplar.cray.com (John Freeman)
Subject: Dry hopping

> And finally, I'd like to kick off a discussion on dry hopping.  I made a
> Pale Ale on Sunday and plan to dry hop it with an ounce, or more, of Goldings
> leaf hops when I rack it into the secondary.  I would be interested in hearing
> of other brewers' experiences with and procedures for dry hopping.  I'm
> planning to simply put the hops, which are in compressed half-ounce plugs, into
> the carboy and rack the beer onto them.  It seems to me that letting the hops
> have unrestrained contact with the beer should achieve the best result in terms
> of extracting the desired compounds.  Will they eventually sink to the
> bottom? Or am I opening myself up to a racking nightmare at bottling time?
> I eagerly await your responses.
> 

I tried dry hopping in exactly this way on my last batch o' pale ale.
I put 10 grams of Freshhops Mt. Hood hops into a carboy and racked
three gallons of beer onto it.  I did not attempt to sterilize the hops
in any way, I just dumped them into the carboy.  It all floated to the
surface and looked like swamp scum.  It didn't sink in five days, at
which time I racked it and bottled.  The hops rinsed out of the carboy
easier than I expected.  The resulting beer is excellent.

The only complaint I have is that there is too much crud in the
yeast cake making it unsuitable for repitching.

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 10:48:28 MDT
From: hplabs!mage!lou
Subject: sanitary airlocks and carboy handles

In HBD #612 Dan Graham writes:

>One of the homebrew mail order catalogs I have adds a lot of advice along 
>with their product listings.  I have found some of the advice to be good, 
>and some pretty bad.  One of the things they recommend is to use a mixture 
>of vodka and water in the airlock.  This seems like overkill to me, since 
>bacteria cannot travel up a loop anyway.  Has anyone done this and noted any 
>different results from just using water?

If there is anything that abounds in the world of homebrewing, it is overkill;
as the readers of this digest well know.  On the other hand, advice for
overkill is not bad advice, just unnecessary.

However, using vodka in the water might be a good approach to dealing with a
problem I have from time to time - getting water sucked from the airlock into
the carboy.  This will happen when there is very little fermentation going on
and the temperature drops.  It happens to me under two conditions: 1) when I
rack a lager, I let it sit for an hour or two to allow the sediments stirred up
by moving it to the kitchen counter to settle.  In the process it warms up and
get warm gas (potentially air but I usually charge the new carboy with CO2)
above the beer so that putting it back in the fridge cools the beer and
gas,causing a temporary lower that atmospheric pressure in the carboy for a
short time.  2) I like to bulk age my meads in the carboy for 6 months or more;
I think it speeds up the aging process and makes for a better final product.
Since I brew a lot of melomels during berry season (e.g. warm months) the
temperature in my brew storage area drops before I bottle them and after the
fermentation is complete.

In any case, I get carboys that suck water out of the airlock.  This is not a
godd thing, although it's not necessarily a bad thing.  I always just use
tapwater and don't worry and get excellent results.  However, Byron Burch points
out in his book that not all tap water is as forgiving as mine is.  Also, some
posters to this digest have complained of getting fruit flies in the water of
their airlocks.  Under such conditions, you would definitely want something to
kill off anything that gets into the water of the airlock if there is a chance
that it will get into the carboy.

Also, Marc Rouleau relates a message from John DeCarlo:

>> The carboy was shipped to me via UPS, in a very nice styrofoam
>> container.  This container is invaluable in storing and carrying
>> the carboy.  I would hesitate to use a neck-handle on a full 7
>> gallong carboy, but find it very easy to use the handles on the
>> styrofoam container to move it about even when full.

The first thing I do when I get a new 7 gallon carboy is to put a neck handle
on it.  I ferment in the crawl space under my house which is reached by a trap
door in a closet.  The floor of the house is about 5 feet above the floor of
the crawl space.  If not for the handles I almost certainly would have dropped
a full carboy by now.  I use the handles to carry full carboys to the closet or
out to the garage where my lagering fridge is located and have never had a
problem.  I did, however, mount the handles as low on the neck as I could get
them which meant stretching out the ring that goes around the neck and getting
a longer bolt to hold the handle on.

Louis Clark
reply to:  lou%mage.uucp at ncar.ucar.edu


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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 09:59:01 PDT
From: bobc at Eng.Sun.COM (Bob Clark - Sun Engineering)
Subject: Re:  Dry hopping / aromatics

	From: "John E. Lenz" <JELJ at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
	Subject:      Greetings
		
	It seems to me that letting the hops have unrestrained contact
	with the beer should achieve the best result in terms of
	extracting the desired compounds.  Will they eventually sink to
	the bottom? Or am I opening myself up to a racking nightmare at
	bottling time?  I eagerly await your responses.

One time, I left the hops bag of aromatic hops (added at end of boil)
in the primary fermenter.  After fermentation kicked off, the bag ended
up floating on top of the krausen - effectively minimizing any further
contact with the beer.

I'd like to found out if anyone has figured out how to get the kind
of floral aromatics which Sierra Nevada has.

Bob C.

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 10:40:10 PDT
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Midwest Brewpubs


There have been some recent requests for info on brewpubs in Illinois 
and Ohio.  Things change quickly, and my records may be out of date, 
but here's what I've found:

There are unfortunately no brewpubs in Evanston. There are five brewpubs
in Illinois, three in Chicago, one in Berwyn, and one in Champaign.

Cleveland boasts the Great Lakes Brewing Company (2516 Market St.,
216-771-4404).There are also brewpubs in Columbus, Dayton, and 
Strongsville (?).

I haven't had the pleasure of visiting any of the above, so I can't say
much more about them. If you make it to any of them, please let us know
what you find.

Enjoy,
CR Saikley

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 11:29:50 PDT
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Wheat Extracts


There has been alot of talk about wheat malt extract and wheat/barley
ratios etc. The consensus seems to be that Ireks is 100% wheat malt.
That raises a question............

	How do they do that?

The reason that wheat beers are usually at least 1/3 barley is that the
barley is necessary. Wheat malt is low in enzymes, so tthe added barley
compensates. Also, wheat malt lacks husk material which is needed to form
the filter bed. Anchor Brewing has gotten their wheat content up to
something like 72-73% in Anchor Wheat, but they don't think they can go 
higher.

Now maybe Ireks is able to get away with more since they are making malt
extract and not beer. I suppose that they could add lots of gibberellic
acid to get the starch->sugar conversion. They would also probably have
to develop a specialized lautering system. This is conjecture; does
anyone out there really know ??

Eagerly Awaiting,
CR

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 14:37:52 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Grain Steeping Temps, Sulfur, Dry Hopping w/ Plugs


>I suggest that you consider steeping the grains at 168 degrees for

Well actually I would suggest using a slightly lower temperature, say 145-155F
as the higher temps can also result in greater extraction of tannins and
astringency.


>have the smell of rotten eggs (hydrogen sulfide) coming from my beer!  The

What kind of yeast are you using?? I have brewed Lager beers in the past and
had H2S odors come off the carbouy. I found however that the smell and flavor
did not remain in the beer. Depending upon the yeast strain and brewing process
a lot of sulfur compounds can be produced. Depending upon the amount produced
the yeast will reduce them . This chemical reduction can result in the release
of H2S. It is actually a good sign that H2S is being produced as this means the
sulfur is being eliminate from the beer. Of course at some point the release of
this should cease. If it persists  past say 10 days, then it is likely your
beer has so much Sulfur in it that the yeast simply can not reduce it all,
otherwise the smell should wane as the level of Sulfur in the wort drops

> I'm planning to simply put the hops, which are in compressed half-ounce plugs,
> into the carboy and rack the beer onto them.

Yeah this works real well, some people rig up devices to prevent the hops from
cloggin up the racking tube. I did sort of the opposite, I chopped the hops up
and put them in one of those mesh boiling bags, put it in the carbouy first
then racked the beer onto it in the secondary. 

JaH
(was Jay Hersh, been promoted)

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 13:16:48 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Sending Beer

Mike writes:
>the problems we were having.  We went to UPS.  Unfortunately, they demanded
>that they know *exactly* what was in the package for customs.  This meant
>that we had to tell them it was beer.  Despite our insistence that it was

I sent mine via U.S.mail, and following the suggestion of someone at the
AHA, I marked the box as "Non-perishable food."
Al.


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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 15:00:03 EDT
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West x4449)
Subject: re-culturing from an iffy batch ??


My second and most recent batch was aerated while hot,
and pitched too hot, and ended up having some off flavors
which I believe came entirely from those two causes.

My question:
Am I being foolish to think that if I culture from a bottle
of this stuff the yeast itself will be OK? Or is it clear to
those who know better, that the yeast is `damaged' and will
continue to produce off flavors even if it is treated well
in the future?

Carl


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Date:         11 Apr 91 15:30:49 EST
From: Jack Webb <JACK.L.WEBB at OFFICE.WANG.COM>
Subject:      Tubing and "Psuedo" Beer


Two rather disparate items:

A friend showed me an ad for "Tygon" beverage/food tubing.  According to him,
this stuff was originally designed for the ice cream industry, and won't
promote bacterial growth.  He made the obvious connection to homebrewing.
According to the ad, "Tygon B-44-3 tubing is odorless and taste-free, so it
won't alter your formula for success."  Tygon (a registered trademark) is made
by Norton Performance Plastics.  The ad concluded "For details, call
216-798-9240."  At this point, I haven't called them, tho my friend did send
in one of those circle-the-numbers-for-more-info type cards.  Anybody out
there familiar with this stuff?

A few HBDs ago, there was some discussion of non-alcoholic beers.  I happened
across a case (empty - I haven't tried any of it - I like alcohol :-) of
"Marke Clausthaler Non-Alcoholic Malt Beverage", and couldn't resist writing
down the info on the case - thought it might contribute (late, I realize) to
the previous thread.  For the record, this stuff is brewed by Binding-Brauerei
A.G., Frankfurt, West Germany.  Per the box (direct quote) "Brewed from pure
water, barley malt, hops and yeast in accordance with the German Beer Purity
Law of 1516".  Hmmm, no doubt, tho I'll bet the law doesn't cover removing the
alcohol you tried so hard to create.  Unfortunately, the blurb on the box made
no mention of how they removed the alcohol.  For what it's worth...

Jack

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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 15:02:59 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)

troby at carl.org (Thorn Roby) writes:

> I've brewed something like 20 batches over five years in three Rotokegs
> and I think only two have gotten through the keg without needing
> additional carbonation.

shit! I just brewed my 11th batch last night, and I've only been in
business for 2 months.  Do you still drink a lot of commercial beer,
or are you just a lightweight?  The only problem is that I have to
keep drinking all these cases of Old Milwaukee just to get the bottles.
For the first couple batches I left the labels on, and when I gave a
bottle to a guest, he drank it and thought it was Old Mill :-)
I'm planning on cutting down on volume, though.  This stuff takes
up too much time (almost as much time a reading notesfiles and
newsgroups).

bb


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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 91 13:30:50 PDT
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Dry Hopping

<From: Doug Dreger <dreger at seismo.gps.caltech.edu>

<The lager that I am making is in the primary in the fridge.  I want to
<dry hop it and was planning to add about 0.75 oz hops to boiling H2O in
<my erlynmeyer (sp?) flask, quickly cool it in an ice bath and add this
<to my secondary before I rack in the beer.  Is all of this necessary ?
<Do I take a risk with infection if I simply add the hops directly with
<out the boiling H2O?

Dry hopping is certainly the way to get hop aroma into your beers, but
there is the nagging question regarding infection. Unfortunately, boiling
the hops long enough to ensure sterility also ensures that the hop aroma
has dissipated. The shorter the boiling time, the more hop volatiles remain,
and the more critters survive. Fortunately, the critters typically found
on hops don't like a yeasty, anaerobic, low pH environment, which allows
dry hopping to be successful. I've dry hopped many beers, and this has
not caused any infection problems.

Last February, I took a homebrewing class from Dr. Lewis at UC Davis. He
said they had studied the problem, and concluded that tossing in hops 2-3
days into fermentation is basically safe, and that no added precautions
were called for. (Correct me if I'm wrong Russ.)


<From: "John E. Lenz" <JELJ at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>

<And finally, I'd like to kick off a discussion on dry hopping.  I made a
<Pale Ale on Sunday and plan to dry hop it with an ounce, or more, of Goldings
<leaf hops when I rack it into the secondary.  I would be interested in hearing
<of other brewers' experiences with and procedures for dry hopping.  I'm
<planning to simply put the hops, which are in compressed half-ounce plugs, into
<the carboy and rack the beer onto them.  It seems to me that letting the hops
<have unrestrained contact with the beer should achieve the best result in terms
<of extracting the desired compounds.  Will they eventually sink to the
<bottom? Or am I opening myself up to a racking nightmare at bottling time?
<I eagerly await your responses.


I've found that pellets generally work better than whole hops. The half
ounce plugs will separate into whole hops in the carboy. They do sink for
the most part, but are easily disturbed and tend to clog the racking tube.
Pelletized hops break up into very small pieces that are less easily 
disturbed. If you do pick them up, they will pass through the tube into
your priming vessel painlessly, where they have another opportunity to 
settle.

Hope this helps,
CR

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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 91 14:04:55 PDT
From: metaware!sol!rickh at uunet.UU.NET (Don't ya wanna hang out with the Bleach Boys, baby)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #612 (April 10, 1991)

I've tried to get mail to the request address, and it keeps bouncing.  Please
take me off this list.

                                         Thanx,
  //          ---<-- at                      -Echo
\X/                                        The Potato-Salad-Eatin' Fool.
INTERNET: rickh at metaware.com               AT&T: (408) 427-9814 home
UUCP:     uunet!ucscc!metaware!rickh       (408) 429-6382 x3086 work

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Date: 	Thu, 11 Apr 1991 17:40:06 -0400
From: hplabs!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick)
Subject: Rotokeg, carbonation

I had a Safron Superkeg, plastic keg for about 4.88 years, which split, and the
store that sold it replaced it with a Rotokeg on the 5 yr warantee, as
they no longer sold the superkeg. I've had the Rotokeg for about three years.
I have found that one has to be very careful to clean and lubricate all 
the seal joints if you don't want them to leak, and yield flat beer. Even
if you are careful, sometimes a beer will suddenly go flat. On the other hand
I've had some batches in these kegs for 8 months with no problems.
If you put a five gallon batch into the keg, you  will most likely have to 
add CO2 cardtridges to get the last half out of the keg.
 What I have been doing lately with good succes is the following:
 I take a five gallon batch, and add two cups of sugar. I then bottle 24
 bottles of this, and put the rest (3.5Gallons) into the Rotokeg, and
 seal it up. This is way more sugar than they recommend. You must have a 
 relief valve of some type. My Brewcraft injector has one. The keg pressure 
 increases to the relief valve pressure, and then starts venting quite
 a bit of gas. This gas that is vented purges a fair amount of the air that
 was in the large headspace in the keg, which helps reduce oxidation problems.
 Because there is a large headspace filled to maximum pressure, there is 
 enough gas in there to dispense most or all of the beer without any cartridges
 SOmetimes it takes a cartridge to get the last 1/2 gallon or so out.
 
Note that I have often served the bottled version, and kegged version of the
same batch to friends one after the other, and most like the bottled version
better. Some won't even believe they are the same beer!!!!

The Rotokeg has the tap at the top of the keg with a pickup tube.
The superkeg had the tap at the bottom. I found the Superkeg hard to get beer
out of. You either get a glass of foam if you crack the tap, or 90MPH
beer flying around if you open it wide. With the small diameter pickup tube
in the Rotokeg, there is enough restriction in this tube, to open the tap wide,
and still get beer coming out slow enough that you can keep it in the glass.
Even so there is lots of ofam. I'm thinking of making the pickup tube either 
smaller diameter, or longer so the pressure drop is spread out more gradually,
so the flow is lower, and the tendancy to foam less. 
 I once had someone who works for a beer company tell me that in there 
draft setups, if the keg was less than a certain distance from the tap, they
added a small coil of small pipe between the tap and keg to reduce foaming.
He called this coil a "restrictor coil".

Bill Crick Brewius, Ergo Sumfoam!




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End of HOMEBREW Digest #614, 04/12/91
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