---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  copper tubing (DAVID)
  Counterflow Wort Chillers, blue flakes and oil (Michael Zentner)
  Mason Jars (chris)
  MeV German Alt Yeast ("Andy Wilcox")
  Yeast for Lambics (Mike Sharp)
  Re: Pub Database (Chris Shenton)
  re water purification (Jon Binkley)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #620 (April 22, 1991) (Joe Dalsin)
  weizen yeast (Marty Albini)
  Long Term Physiological Effects of Beer Drinking (larryba)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 22 Apr 1991 9:16:23 EDT
From: POORE at SCRI1.SCRI.FSU.EDU (DAVID)
Subject: copper tubing

Appologies if this has been discussed recently...

I just got some old copper tubing and I want to make a chiller. The stuff 
is pretty old, and has a bit of corrosion. It was originally used as a gas 
line. I'm looking for advice on how to treat the stuff to get it clean and 
in shape to touch my beer. Thanks...

David Poore
poore at gw.scri.fsu.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 22 Apr 91 08:32:06 -0500
From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Zentner)
Subject: Counterflow Wort Chillers, blue flakes and oil

Kinney Baughman wrote:

> were the comments that the clorox caused little blue flakes to
> form inside the copper tubing.  I've never worried about the blue
> flakes because even though blue, they were sterile, and didn't seem to
> affect the taste of my beer in any way.
> 
> Still blue flakes were a recurring comment and I began to consider
> doing what Darren did, use boiling water to sterilize my chiller

The fact that blue flakes were coming out indicates that there
was a layer of blue stuff inside that had formed and was flaking
off...not necessarily that all of the corrosion was washed out, though.
In industrial applications, this stuff is very important, because
fouling reduces drastically, in many cases, the efficiency of
heat exchange.  I don't suspect it matters much in a home-application,
though.  I am still pretty sure I wouldn't want it in my beer,
for no real scientific reason, just because I'd "know" it was there.

> A few digests back, someone pointed out that new copper has oils which
> must be removed before first use of a chiller.
> ...
> tubing.  I've always recommended doing a couple of clorox soaks
> (1 Tablespoon clorox to 1 gallon of water, for 30 minutes) before using
> copper chillers for the first time.  Following up or interspersing it
> with a couple boiling hot water rinses is a good idea as well.

Sorry to keep harping on this subject, but I think it's VERY important.
Bleach will have very little effect in dissolving oils.  Hot water
may "soften" the oil enough that some will float out, but it will
not get the thin layer off the edge of the copper.  You need one of
two things which interact either chemically or physically with oil
to remove it:  Either something with surfactant properties (soap)
or a solvent (alcohol will work).  I really tried about everything
possible running through my chiller to get this gunk out, and nothing
was effective.  I ran hot soap solutions through it, propanol, and
even pine sol (this worked a little bit).  Simply rinsing with this
stuff was not effective.  It actually required physical agitation
to get the oil out...which meant uncoiling the darn thing and fighting
with it half a day with stiff wire and cotton balls.

The easiest realiable way to know if you have oil in there or not is
to actually dip a cotton swab in rubbing alcohol and stick it in,
rubbing it around.  If it comes out black, thats grease or oil.
After you wash it out, test it again, inserting the swab to a 
different depth, so you don't test the same area you swabbed
clean earlier.

The other option is to say, "I can't taste it, so who cares?"  It just
depends on what kind of person you are.  Just knowing it was there was
too much for me to relax about.

Mike "got rid of the greasies" Zentner

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 22 Apr 91 8:35:15 CDT
From: medch!chris at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Mason Jars

Just curious, but has anyone out there tried quart Mason Jars rather
than bottles?  I'm thinking of starting to brew in the near future
and like the convenient size of these jars.  Besides, theres
something about alcohol in mason jars in northern Alabama...
- -- 
                    # 
Chris Hudson        #  Don't try to have the last word,  
b17a!medch!chris    #                                  you might get it.   
X1375  IW17A5       #
Intergraph          #                     -Lazarus Long
                    #


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 22 Apr 91 10:24:44 -0400
From: "Andy Wilcox" <andy at eng.ufl.edu>
Subject: MeV German Alt Yeast


Has anybody brewed with this yeast before?  Here's my
situation.  I started the yeast in a two-quart malt
solution.  From this, sterile agar slants were innoculated.
The original starter was then used to brew a batch of
beer.  This fermentation was slow to get going, but then
produced a slab of light brown material covering the top of 
the glass fermenter.  There is a strange odor to this brew -
not "bad", per se, but strange.  It's improving significantly
with lagering (1 month now).

Now, the slants.  They were my first.  Not knowing what a 
healthy slant should look like, I assumed these were good.
The were not "pure creamy white" as described in the Leistad
book, but more like light creamy tan.  (One of the slants did
become infected with some green goo. I *knew* that wasn't
right :-)  From this slant, I made a 100ml starter, and then
pitched this in 1000ml and then 2000ml.  This was pitched in
wort.  This fermentation is behaving exactly the same as the
original, except it started much faster.

Is this "normal" behavior for this yeast?  I'm dissapointed
that it seems to need so much aging.  I *really* like the
german Alt style, and would like to have it mature sooner.

 -Andy


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 22 Apr 91 11:01:30 EDT
From: msharp at hawk.ulowell.edu (Mike Sharp)
Subject: Yeast for Lambics

Hello all,

I have just added cultures of Brettanomyces Bruxellensis and
Pediococcus Cerevisiae to my culture collection.  These are the
two main yeasts which give Belgian Lambics their distinct characteristics.

Both of these cultures are from a 'reputable lab' which wishes to remain
anon.  These are pure cultures, not sludge from the bottom of a bottle.

If there is sufficient interest, I will make them available in liquid
cultures.  What I need to know is if there is sufficient interest.

If you're interested in obtaining subcultures or just getting on my
mailing list please contact me at msharp at cs.ulowell.edu or (508)441-2220.
(if your e-mail bounces try msharp at hawk.ulowell.edu) 

I'll be using the mailing list to keep net-folks up to date on the
availability of special yeasts & bacterias as well as equipment and
techniques for making pseudo-lambics.

FYI, I can probably start subculturing in about a month or by special
arrangement prior to that.  (I'm running some test batches at the moment)

	--Mike Sharp

>>  This is NOT another april fools joke!  I _really_ do have these.  <<

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 22 Apr 91 11:49:32 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pub Database

Regarding the databasing of brew pubs and local breweries, I like it, but
it's been done in a convenient paperback. Micheal Jackson's Pocket Guide to
Beer. I just bought his latest version (``Revised, Updated, and Expanded'')
the other night when I saw him speak.

Excellent book.

Of course it can't change as rapidly as electronic media, but it is thorough.

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 22 Apr 91 10:05:50 -0600
From: Jon Binkley <binkley at beagle.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: re water purification

Some thoughts on a couple of water purification messages in HBD #620:

Dan Graham said:
 
>As was obvious, I have decided on the carbon block unit with the 
>ultraviolet light sterilizer.  I wonder what would happen if I modified the 
>unit to use just the UV light and passed the wort by it on its way to the 
>fermenter ... hmmm ...
 
I don't think this would be a good idea.  We all know what certain
wavelengths of light can do to hop components;  while I've never
heard of UV being implicated, it wouldn't suprise me if there's
something in your complex soup that could get re-combobulated into
something nasty smelling/tasting after getting hit by UV.

Randy Tidd sez:

>In my supermarket I see both distilled and "spring" water for sale for
>somewhere between $0.69 and $0.99 a gallon -- not too bad.  I assume
>the spring water would have some stuff in it (i.e. minerals) but that
>the distilled water would have virtually none.  What minerals, if
>any, would I have to add to this water?  I've seen a lot of recipes
>that call for Burton water salts or gypsum.  What results can I expect
>if I use only pure water, malt, yeast and hops?

You'd probably be okay using spring water, but you might run into
problems with using only distilled.  Yeast require a bunch of
bizarre minerals at very low concentrations which wouldn't be in
distilled water, and wouldn't be added with gypsum or burton salts.
However...

>I do mostly extract brewing...

So what I said is probably moot.  The trace minerals extract
adds back are probably sufficient, and would probably allow
you to get by using distilled water plus burton salts.

Jon Binkley
binkley at boulder.colorado.edu


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 22 Apr 91 13:55:40 EDT
From: John Mireley <mireley at horus.cem.msu.edu>

Greetings.  As a newcomer to the art/scinece of homebrewing I have
several questions concerning glass ware. I recently purchased, at a
garage sale, the glassware of a fellow that made wine. I got two five
gallon carboys and a half dozen glass jars. The glass jars and one of
the carboys seem to have been made by the same company as they all have
the same sort of pattern on their bottoms. All but one of the jars is
three or so gallons. The odd jar looks like it will hold five gallons.
All have a threaded wide mouth and a wire/wood handle. The bottoms have
a random patern of lines that look like the paterns in cracked mud.
I would guess the they are there to increase the strength of the bottoms.
They are marked on the bottom with an "I" in a diamond and an oval.
What were these jars made for? All the jars and the carboy have, what
appear to be small curved cracks in the bottoms. The 5 gallon jar has a
small crack in the side. Do these cracks represent a problem? Could the
5 gallon jar be used if I wrapped the jar with, say a fiberglass, tape?

Can a wort that has been pitched and does not start fermenting be reboiled
and repitched?

I bottled my first batch of beer a week ago. We ran out of beer Saturday
and money on Friday so my wife wanted to start drinking the green beer.
I objected but she insisted. She says she likes it better than
anything that we have been buying. Are there recipes that are desinged
not to be carbonated?

When using hopped extract, I have 6lbs of M&F amber, do the producers
assume that you will be mixing it with some amount of unhopped extract
or other sugar source? Can I just use all six pounds to make a batch or
will it be to heavily hopped?

John Mireley

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 22 Apr 91 13:08:24 CST
From: Joe Dalsin <joed at cbs.cbs.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #620 (April 22, 1991)

In message <9104220700.AA11210 at hpfcmi.HP.COM> homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com 
writes:
> 
Please remove my name from the list.

Thank you.


joe-d at molbio.cbs.umn.edu
>


/////////////////////////////////
//  Joe Dalsin                 //
//  CBS - Networking Services  //
//  University of Minnesota    //
/////////////////////////////////

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 22 Apr 91 16:02:35 PDT
From: Marty Albini <martya at sdd.hp.com>
Subject: weizen yeast

	Found it! Saccarimides Delbruckii can be ordered 
from: Brewhaus, of Knoxville, TN. Their number is (615)
523-4615. It is, by the way, apparently MeV #033. Still
looking for MeV's address, BTW.

	Thanks to all who aided in the search, whose names are
omitted to avoid having to spell from memory. l owe you a beer!
- --
____________________________________________Marty Albini___________
"Thank god for long-necked bottles, the angel's remedy."--Tom Petty
phone    : (619) 592-4177
UUCP     : {hplabs|nosc|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!martya
Internet : martya at sdd.hp.com 
US mail  : Hewlett-Packard Co., 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon Apr 22 15:34:13 1991
From: microsoft!larryba at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Long Term Physiological Effects of Beer Drinking

Does anyone have any hard information regarding long term
physiological and/or psychological affects of drinking (home
brew) beer at the rate of 5-6 pints a week? What about 8-10 pints
a week?  What about abstinence and binging?

I consider 6 pints/week to be moderate.  My wife, who works as a
statistitian in the medical community, typically considers more
than three bottles of beer a week "problem" drinking for
classification purposes.

I take popular medical recommendations with a large grain of
salt.  They seem to change every six months.  So the current fad
of near abstinence is pretty suspect.  Info, or pointers to info,
names of researchers, etc would be helpful.

Larry Barello
Microsoft



Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #621, 04/23/91
*************************************
-------

---