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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Contents:
  Liquid Yeast, Hops and Filtering (rogerl)
  Adding Dextrin or Lactose (lbr)
  Re: Filtering my Brew (lbr)
  Re: Liquid Yeast (lbr)
  Re: filtering beer (a.e.mossberg)
  AHA National Competition Rumors (Mike Fertsch)
  Duplicate Digests (rdg)
  hops, and the devil made me do it (Jeff Miller)
  Yeast, Competition (rdg)
  filtering beer (arthure)

Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com


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Date: Wed, 1 Feb 89 09:32:10 EST
From: rogerl at Think.COM
Subject: Liquid Yeast, Hops and Filtering

   From: Bryan Hilterbrand <bryanh%dadla.la.tek.com at RELAY.CS.NET>
   Subject: Liquid Yeast
   ...
   Did I do the right thing?  Should I have let the yeast sit overnight, or
   would it have made a mess all over my counter?  Any other do's and
   don'ts about using liquid yeast?
You missed the line in the book about "Don't Worry".  You did
everything just fine.  I don't think that envelope can "explode".
Them buggers are really tough when it comes to containing starting
microbeasties.   What that package does is start the yeast
multiplying, so that when you pitch there is sufficent activity to get
the whole fermentation process going.  This "starting" process is
typically not needed for dry yeasts.  Other liquid yeasts may not come
with starter such as the one you used.  In these cases you will need
to make up a starter from malt and water.  The package usually
describes how to create the starter.  The big thing here is
sterilization.  Everything has to be *REALLY* clean.  Since liquid
yeasts are typically purer strains, they can be affected by
contamination easier.  This is also why the package you used said to
sanitize the outside of the envelope.  You picked a great place to
start, with liquid yeast et al.  Just remember, Don't Worry,
Relax,.....

   From: Pete Soper <soper at maxzilla.encore.com>
   Subject: bittering hops
   Is it true that flavor and aroma come only from hops added in the last
   few minutes of a boil and steeping andr dry hopping?
Yes, this is one place where the finish of a brew comes from.
Different hops add different flavors and aroma when added to steep or
dry hopping.  Some can be astringent and some can be quite sweet and
flowery.  
   Is it true that one hop type added for a LONG boil is going to add
   just the same thing as another hop - namely isomerized alpha acid?
Yes, but the thing here is how much of a type of hop is being used to
generate the amount of bitterness desired.  To get the same level of
bitterness with a hop that has an alpha level of 6, for instance,
would reqire twice as much as a hop with an alpha level of 12.
   Why don't I just buy the most bitter hop I can find for this and be
   done with it? 
Maybe you don't want that much bittering in a given batch.  Maybe you
don't want the end product to be so astringent or sweet.  Hopping can
get to be a real art.  And much of that art depends on personal tastes
and style of brew you are creating.  If you are trying to reproduce a
particular style, typically you'll use a hop that is common to the
area where the style of beer is from.   So I guess what I'm saying is
it isn't just the bittering quality of the hops that's used.  I'm
still learning about the nuances and subtleties.

   From: John F Stoffel <john%wpi.wpi.edu at RELAY.CS.NET>
   Subject: Filtering my Brew
   After drinking our first experimentaion in Home Brew (which came out
   Damm good in our estimentation), my frineds and I have come to the
   conclusion that filtering the beer just before we bottle it would do
   wonders.
You might want to investigate finings.  Geletin and polyclar are two
that have been discussed quite abit in this forum.  Another
alternative is chilling the batch for 12 to 24 hrs. prior to
bottleing.  All of these things will help.
Filtering requires quite a bit of hardware, ala two pressure tanks, 
appropriate sized filters, CO2 et cetera.  My brewing budget is very
modest and I find this additional equipment for filtering to get quite
costly quite fast.  I'd suggest trying the low tech solutions,
finings, first before spending the big bucks.

Cheers!
Roger Locniskar

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Date: Wed, 1 Feb 89 11:08:02 EST
From: lbr at gatech.edu
Subject: Adding Dextrin or Lactose

>> I would like to add a bit of Dextrin (non-fermentable sugar) to my
>> priming mix.... [Asks how much.]

> From: hplabs!harvard!ima!wang7!klm
I have used lactose (another unfermentable sugar) with success. As I 
recall, 1/4 cup was plenty. I would certainly use no more than 1/2 cup
of dextrin powder- that will give the beer lots of body.

Lactose (milk sugar) can give a saccahin taste if not used in moderation.
It should be fine in small amounts in dark beers.  It is traditionally
used in "milk stout."  Don't use this stuff to balance your Pilsner.
I had some frustrating results in last year's competition, but I think

- Len Reed

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Date: Wed, 1 Feb 89 11:07:34 EST
From: lbr at gatech.edu
Subject: Re: Filtering my Brew

From: Pete Soper <soper at maxzilla.encore.com>
> Is it true that flavor and aroma come only from hops added in the last
> few minutes of a boil and steeping andr dry hopping? Is it true that
> one hop type added for a LONG boil is going to add just the same
> thing as another hop - namely isomerized alpha acid? Yes, there are
> all those evil hop oils that we want to blow away or rack away from,
> but having blown or racked they've been left behind and so are not
> part of what I'm asking about, right?
> 
> What I'm getting at is whether it makes any sense to use one hop over
> another for the START of a LONG minute boil. Why don't I just buy
> the most bitter hop I can find for this and be done with it?
> 
> Just to be absolutely clear, I'm asking about hops that are going
> to be boiled for 90 minutes or more.

I don't believe this is true.  Yes, the isomerized alpha acid is the *main*
result of a long boil, but the boil hops affect flavor as well.  They
don't seem to affect aroma.  Your conclusions are valid for bitter, dark
beers.  But I used nothing but Saaz in my Pilsner.  Experiments with
Eroica (a high alpha acid variety) were unsatisfactory.

- Len Reed

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Date: Wed, 1 Feb 89 11:08:55 EST
From: lbr at gatech.edu
Subject: Re: Liquid Yeast

> I have a question about [liquid] yeast...  At the
> top of the instructions, they said that the packet would require one to
> five days before the culture would be ready to pitch, and they went on
> to say that it would take one day plus one day per month since the date
> shown on the package (it showed Jan. 3, 1989).  Later in the instruc-
> tions, they said to wait until the package had expanded to at least one
> inch thick....

> What happened is this:  at about 1:00pm I broke the nutrient packet, and
> I started boiling the wort, etc. at about the same time figuring that I
> would let the stuff in the carboy cool down overnight before I pitched
> the yeast (the package said at least one day to culture the yeast...).
> About 11:00pm that night, I went into the kitchen, and the yeast package
> was ballooned to about two inches thick.  I was afraid if I let it sit
> there overnight that it would blow up, so I pitched the yeast right
> then.  The carboy was cool to my touch (cool enough to pitch the yeast),
> so I figured the worst that could happen is that it would take a little
> longer for the fermentation to start.

> Did I do the right thing?  Should I have let the yeast sit overnight, or
> would it have made a mess all over my counter?  Any other do's and
> don'ts about using liquid yeast?

Yes, you're fine.  I have found that Wyeast cultures, especially the ale
cultures, typically swell up sooner than the package indicates they will.
I put these things into a starter jug several days before the brewing
session to get a vigorous fermentation going.  (I use sterile canned wort
for starters; see Dave Miller's zymurgy article last year.)

I suggest using a sterilized thermometer before pitching.  110 def F will
kill yeast.  I force cool my wort; this is absolutely required when
brewing from grain.  When using extract it's not nearly as important
but you do risk infection while the wort is sitting.

- Len Reed

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Date: Wed, 1 Feb 89 11:36:29 EDT
From: a.e.mossberg <aem at mthvax.miami.edu>
Subject: Re: filtering beer

In Hombrew #63, John F Stoffel asks about filtering beer:

|	One, will filtering reduce the amount of fermetation that
|takes place in the bottle?  Does filtering have a signifigant impact
|on the beer itself?  Or is having all the yeast settled on the bottom
|part of the joys of homebrew?  How many of you out there filter YOUR
|beer?  

Commercial beer is filtered. Commercial beer is pumped with CO2.  If you
filter, most, if not all, of the yeast will be removed, depending on how
fine a filter you use. If you remove the dead yeast, you will remove the
live yeast, and not get any carbonation. The only way you can, as a home-
brewer, filter your beer and then have carbonated beer is to filter it
into a keg, which you pressurize.

aem

--
a.e.mossberg aem at mthvax.miami.edu MIAVAX::AEM (Span) aem at umiami.BITNET (soon)
Now, for the first time, Nicaragua has a government that cares for its people.
					- Jose Figueres, ex-president Costa Rica

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Date: Wed, 1 Feb 89 09:24 EST
From: Mike Fertsch <hplabs!uiucdcs!meccad.RAY.COM!FERTSCH>
Subject: AHA National Competition Rumors

This year's AHA Conference and Competition will be held in Fort Mitchell, 
KY during the week of June 7-10.  I've been told that the logistics for the 
competition will be different from previous years.  Here's what I heard:

The AHA will request one (maybe two) bottles of each entry to be sent to
Boulder, CO for first round judging.  The purpose of first-round judging is 
to narrow the field to those which are good enough for second and final 
judging.  Local Boulder-area judges will do the first-round judging.  

The brewers of the first-round survivors will be asked to send two more 
bottles directly to Fort Mitchell for best-of-class and best-of-show 
judging.  These categories will be judged by certified judges during the 
national conference.  The awards ceremony will take place at the end of the 
conference.

Please note that the AHA has not announced dates or confirmed these rumors
(you still out there, Jim Homer???).  Looking at my calendar, I come up
with a few dates.  If final round judging will be in Kentucky on June 7,
the final round beers should be there no later than June 1.  The AHA better
inform the first round survivors no later than May 18. First round judging
will probably begin April 24.  First round entries should be in Boulder by
April 17, so plan on sending them no later than April 10.  You better get 
brewing folks!

Again, I stress that these are just rumors!!!!  Formal announcement should 
be coming soon from AHA.  The AHA may decide on a totally different format 
from what I described!

The logistics of shipping competition beers are not too bad.  UPS does a
good job of sending beer; just package it well.  I send my entries
second-day air.  UPS is generally NOT allowed to ship alcoholic beverages;
they ARE allowed to send beer for research, or formal evaluation.  It is
legal to send beers to a competition.  As a practical matter, is is better
to stretch the truth and describe the package as "non-perishable food". 
I've had no problems with my non-perishable food. 

mike fertsch

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Date: Wed, 01 Feb 89 10:33:38 MST
From: rdg at hpfcmi
Subject: Duplicate Digests
Full-Name: 	Rob Gardner	

I am aware of the problem some people have been having concering
duplicates.  If you have been receiving duplicates of the homebrew
digest, please answer the following questions to help me figure
out the problem:

1. Do you *always* get duplicates, or just sometimes?
2. Are the duplicates complete digests, or is one of them truncated?
   (The last line should say something like "End of Homebrew Digest".)
3. What machine appears to be doing the duplicating? Most headers
   I have seen so far point to hp-sde (sde.hp.com). If you can't
   tell, send me headers.

Please do not reply to "homebrew" - send all your info to homebrew-request.

Also, once you have told me you are having the problem, please do not
send mail saying that you're still having the problem, since the
volume of complaints is getting rather high. Do let me know if there
is some change, ie, you stop getting duplicates, or you start getting
7 of them, etc.

Once again, I apologize for the inconvenience of getting two copies
of the digest, but it's better than none, right? Please bear with the
problem for now, just delete the extra copy, and hopefully we'll have
it fixed soon.

Rob

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Date: Wed, 1 Feb 89 10:39:50 CDT
From: Jeff Miller <jmiller at unix.eta.com>
Subject: hops, and the devil made me do it

I have two submissions today.  First to answer some of Pete's questions
about boiling hops with my own impressions.

It is true that the esters responsible for aroma get reduced the longer
you boil your hops but there are other flavors in the hops besides these.
I have experienced different results based on different types of boiling
hops (useing everything from saaz to chinook) and fell that if you really
have an idea in mind for your beer you can fine tune the taste based
on the type of hops you choose for the boil as well as the finish.  I have
also heard lots of talk about hopping multiple times at different times of
the boil to create some really complex tastes.  I have also heard rumors
of how some commercial brewers are getting away from doing much with boiling
hops because of costs in both labor and materials.  If this is the case it
will make our homebrew all that more attractive.

Now, the devil made me do it!

I brewed a light pilsner using a four pound can of Williams about 2 weeks
ago.  I had a bad day and it continued right on through the brew.  I burned
myself twice and blew up a glass fermenter because I was being to lazy to
clean the wort chiller.  I did save almost 4 gallons and bottled it last
night.  I kegged 3.87 gallons in a pony (and no I didn't wax it so I'll
probably get Alzheimers) and then I had to deal with 5 more bottles of beer.
The thing is that I primed the keg at a known rate but I had no idea as
to an appropriate primeing rate for a 5 bottles?  I decided to prime with
1/4 tsp dextrose (nope, didn't boil it either, just added it) per bottle.
I'm not really concerned over all the "short steps" I took on this brew
and of course hope that it turns out.  Anybody out there ever prime on
a per bottle basis like this?  Anybody got any ideas if my bottles will
be flat or explode?

Well, well,  I guess I'll just have to relax and wait a number of weeks
to get the answers.

Jeff (jmiller at eta.com)

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Date: Wed, 01 Feb 89 14:16:00 MST
From: rdg at hpfcmi
Subject: Yeast, Competition
Full-Name: 	Rob Gardner	

> From: Bryan Hilterbrand <bryanh%dadla.la.tek.com at RELAY.CS.NET>

> About 11:00pm that night, I went into the kitchen, and the yeast package
> was ballooned to about two inches thick.  I was afraid if I let it sit
> there overnight that it would blow up, so I pitched the yeast right
> then.  The carboy was cool to my touch (cool enough to pitch the yeast),
> so I figured the worst that could happen is that it would take a little
> longer for the fermentation to start.

> Did I do the right thing?  Should I have let the yeast sit overnight, or
> would it have made a mess all over my counter?  Any other do's and
> don'ts about using liquid yeast?

You did the right thing. Some hints:

1. Start the yeast much further in advance. Yes, it will probably start
in a few hours, but if it happens to take 2 days, then your cool wort
is in grave danger. If the package has expanded before you are ready
to brew, you can refridgerate it, or see #2...

2. Culture the liquid yeast to a higher volume before pitching it. I have
found that the amount of yeast in those little packets is minimal, so I
pitch it into a gallon jug with some sterile starter solution, and let
that grow for a few days. When I have pitched the foil pouches directly,
there was an alarming delay before signs of fermentation were visible.
Pitching a large starter has reduced that "lag phase" quite a bit.

> From: Jeff Miller <jmiller at unix.eta.com>

> Rob, you were talking about the AHA competition and I was wondering how
> one goes about getting entered in it.  Do you have to actually go there?
> I know that the US Mail and UPS people don't like shipping alcohol so I
> assume you can't really mail it there.  Anyway, I would sure like to have
> my beer judged on a national scale rather then just the local county fair
> so I would appreciate any information anyone might have about getting
> entered.

The Spring (or thereabouts) issue of Zymurgy usually has complete
instructions, rules, categories, etc. for entering the national
competition. Yes, you can ship your homebrew entries to them! They
tell you how to do this- basically you have to wrap them a certain way,
etc. What, you say you don't get Zymurgy, and you're not an AHA member?
Well...immediately send $21 to:
	American Homebrewers Association
	PO Box 287 
	Boulder, CO 80306
Or call 303-447-0816 and charge it. 

> From: John F Stoffel <john%wpi.wpi.edu at RELAY.CS.NET>
> 	Also, what is the address of this National brew competition?

Well, you usually have to get your beer to the AHA headquarters in Boulder,
but this year I'm not sure what's going to happen. The Great American
Beer Festival etc will be in Kentucky this year for some arcane reason (:-)
so the competition might be also, though I hope not. (I wouldn't want to
have to mail in *my* competition entries! ;-)

> And what are the requirements to enter?

In a nutshell:

For each brew you want to enter, you send in $6 (more for non-members)
along with 3 bottles of your brew. The bottles must be standard 12oz
bottles, with no labels or other identification marks on them. You
also send in the recipe used, the name of the brew, and what category
it is being entered in. After the competition, you'll receive your
score sheets within several weeks.

Rob

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Date: Wed, 1 Feb 89 13:23:57 -0800
From: sco!arthure at ucscc.UCSC.EDU
Subject: filtering beer

Yeast are tiny little buggers.  Filtering yeast
out of your beer is kind of like trying to sweep
ants ...

To remove yeast from your beer, you'd need to
use a really fine ceramic filter ... And that
would probably all of your yeast, preventing
bottle conditioning.

Other people in this newgroups have mentioned
some solutions to the problem of excess precipitated
yeast, like finings, chilling the beer before 
racking, patience ...

-arthur

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