---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Zymurgy Fall 91? ("N. Zentena")
  large fermentors ("N. Zentena")
  Science or Art/ A rhetorical question. (TSAMSEL)
  Guinness Stout Recipe (A.S.T.R.E.)
  RE: Homebrew Digest #730 (September 24, 1991) (HOLM LAB, HARVARD UNIVERSITY)
  Attention Rick Larson (MIKE LIGAS)
  stuff (Russ Gelinas)
  Juniper and spruce (GERMANI)
  hydrometer usage (Tim Carlson)
  plastics (again?) (GERMANI)
  re: questions from Bob (joshua.grosse)
  Noonan, Chloride, and USP Grade Chemicals
  Chloride ions & USP; First posting was botched  
  Banana beer (Don McDaniel)
  NJ Homebrew Clubs (GC Woods)
  Competition listings in Zymurgy (homer)
  Brew kit (Jack Sinclair)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #727 (September 19, 1991) (ASQNC-TABSM 5320) <jsova at APG-EMH5.APG.ARMY.MIL>
  Beer Fests (C.R. Saikley)
  Comments in General (Jeff Frane)
  Mail order grain... (Kurt Swanson)
  The Zen of Crushing Grain... (Kurt Swanson)
  sex, beer, and TV (florianb)
  dry hopping ("Anton E. Skaugset")
  Point/Counterpoint (Greg Wageman)
  Zip City Brewing - NYC (GC Woods)
  cheers (Samuel Patrick Ward)
  guiness stout recipe (Brian Bliss)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 	Tue, 24 Sep 1991 04:00:55 -0400
From: "N. Zentena" <zen at utcs.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Zymurgy Fall 91?

	Hi,
		Has anybody in the general Toronto area gotten thier copy?
Is the Post office holding it for ransom? Does Customs think they illegal matter
Where is my copy??? -(
	Nick

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Date: 	Tue, 24 Sep 1991 04:48:01 -0400
From: "N. Zentena" <zen at utcs.utoronto.ca>
Subject: large fermentors

	Hi,
		I use various glass wine jugs[for the those who have to
know they are called damigian(sp?)] They come is sizes ranging from 10litres
to at least 60litres. Plus they are much easier to carry then carboys and at
least in Toronto much cheaper by the litre. 54litre units are selling for
about $25cdn. 25litre units for less then $20.
	Nick

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Date:    Tue, 24 Sep 1991 7:30:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV
Subject: Science or Art/ A rhetorical question.

  I have been homebrewing off and on for 25 years and I came to it through
cooking, rather than science. However I do have a degree in Biology so I
do have a scientific understanding of the process of fermentation.
  Since I cook (both professionally and as a teacher) I find I get better
results by brewing in a primarily intuitive (i.e. cooking) mode. I do use
a thermometer and a hydrometer and adhere to the germ theory of disease,
so I am not New-Aging the yeast daemons or sacrificing to the Godette o'
Hops.
  I see an awful lot of empirical brewers on this list and one of my questions
is:
  Did you cook before you began brewing?
and if so,
  Do you always need to follow a recipe?
 .....
  I only follow recipes if i am trying to brew a style I have never tried to
brwe before.
  
Ted (Tsamsel at Usgsresv.bit)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 "Empty bottles of beer on the floor,
  There wont be any more,
  Cos they closed up the store.
  We'll get together another time here,
  With more of that Shiner beer"

SHINER BEER SONG  John Clay  1970 (approx)

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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 07:55:43 -0400
From: astre at halfog.asrc.albany.edu (A.S.T.R.E.)
Subject: Guinness Stout Recipe

Steve,
I was looking for the same not long ago.  I just made a batch which is a variation on 
Toad Spit Stout from TCJOHB.  It looks real good.  It has about a week to go
before I can try it.  Here it is.  1 can John Bull Dark Hopped Extract.
3 lb M&F extra dark DME. 1/2 lb crystal malt.  1/2 lb roasted barley. 1/2
lb choc. malt. 1 1/2 oz Bullion hops boil.  1/2 oz Kent Golding Finish.
Cracked grain and brought to 170 F.  Removed grain. Added malt,DME brought to
a boil.  added hops at 15 minutes and at 58 minutes.  total boil 60 minutes.
Pitched with Wyeast Irish ALe Yeast. Almost blew the top off the primary.
OG = 1.052 FG = 1.013.
Several people mentioned on CIS that Guinness adds some sour wort back in 
at bottling so that as a homebrewer it will be real hard to get that real
Guinness twang.  Good Luck. 

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Date:    Tue, 24 Sep 1991 8:25:49 EDT
From: CHOLM at HUBIO2.HARVARD.EDU (HOLM LAB, HARVARD UNIVERSITY)
Subject: RE: Homebrew Digest #730 (September 24, 1991)

	I was pleased recently to see a posting asking for good Christmas beer
recipes; I have been considering doing one myself.  The response, though, has
been less than staggering.  Two recipes have appeared, and while each looks
interesting, neither author had tried the beer yet!  So, I'm asking again: 
Anyone got any good christmas beers that they've brewed AND tasted?  And
thanks to those who have responded already.  It's not that I don't trust
you, I'm just looking for a (relatively) sure thing.
	Has anyone done any cider fermentation?  I've done the standard thing
of taking a gallon of preservative free cider and allowing it to ferment, but
that's sort of dicey since all sorts of things are in there.  I was planning
on doing a 5 gallon batch this year, boiling the cider first and then pitching
a good beer yeast, doing a proper primary and secondary fermentation, and then
priming and bottling.  Anyone else tried anything similar? Thanks.
						Dave Rose
					CHOLM at HUBIO2.HARVARD.EDU

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Date: 	Tue, 24 Sep 1991 10:09:00 -0400
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Attention Rick Larson

Rick:

I have tried sending you the Cat's Meow and other mail as per your request but
it keeps getting spooled back to me!? I have tried the following addresses
without success:

melkor!beren!rick at uunet.UU.NET  and larson at adc.com

Any suggestions?

Mike
ligas at sscvax.cis.mcmaster.ca

PS: Sorry HDers, but this is the only way I can get this message to Rick.


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Date:    Tue, 24 Sep 1991 10:23:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: stuff

  Well, I want to change my opinion of the Commonwealth Brewery in Boston.
The last time I was there, I was not thrilled.  This time, I was very pleased.
I actually only had time for a pint of amber, but it was fresh, clean, crisp,
malty and hoppy. Sound good? It was. And "pulled" rather than poured, which
gave it a nice creamy head.
  Unforunately, that experience contrasted with the one I had at the Cambridge
Brewery, which *was* my brewpub of choice.   There I had an insipid amber, and
a just good Scotch ale.  Dissappointing.  But they were catering a wedding
at the time, so maybe the brewing cycle had gotten disrupted in the planning for
the wedding.

  Now on to more important things.  Can someone tell me more about Corsendonk 
Monk's Ale?  It's from Belgium, and is a Flander's Brown, I believe.  It had
a mild sour tang to it.  It is bottle conditioned, and has a good slab of
yeast on the bottom.  Any worth in culturing the dregs?

  I want to make some cuttings on my hops, to send to a friend, and to start
another plant (in a sunnier place).  How big a piece should I cut, and where
should I cut?

Russ Gelinas
OPAL/ESP
UNH

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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1991 11:07 EST
From: GERMANI%NSLVAX at Venus.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Juniper and spruce

Greetings,
	As long as there's been talk of spices in beer I have a few questions.
Has anyone out there ever used juniper berries in beer?  I've seen a lot of 
juniper trees around here with lots of wonderfully fragrant berries on them. 
Could I just pick some in the wild and put then in at the end of the boil?  
How much should I use?  Any idea when the berries should be picked?
	Also, I tasted a spruce beer recently and it was great.  I think that
it was made with spruce essence.  I heard that it could be made with new growth
of a spruce tree.  Has anyone tried this?  Again, is it just tossed in toward
the end of the boil?  Will any old spruce tree do?
  
Thanks,

	Joe 

Bitnet: GERMANI at YALEVMS
Decnet: 44421::GERMANI


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

"Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire." 
						--David Rains Wallace

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 9:14:01 MDT
From: Tim Carlson <timc at hpfctjc.fc.hp.com>
Subject: hydrometer usage

O.K., so you talked about whether or not a person should use a hydrometer, but
you never said HOW a person should use one...

My first batch of homebrew is merrily bubbling away in my basement...

After having read this digest for several months (during a very busy summer), I
decided that its about time for me to brew some beer.  I bought a homebrew kit
at my local brew shop, but instead of the 1 can of extract and x amount of 
sugar, I got 2 cans of extract (Geordie Bitter) and I got some whole hops
(i.e., not pelletized) for "finishing".  Anyway, the kit included only a 
large plastic bucket and no carboy, so I went to a local grocery that sells
5 gal glass carbouys of "Artesian spring water" for ~$4 plus a $6 deposit.

So, I went home and dumped ~2 gal of the bottled water into my recently 
purchased 16 qt SS pot that I bought at Target for $17 (its very thin SS).
As the water was heating on the stove, I dumped out about ~.5 gal of the 
remaining water in the carbouy, so that I had room for the 2 cans of extract.
After boiling the 2 gal of water + 2 cans of extract for ~15 min, I put my
 .5 oz of hops (in a hops bag) in for another minute or so.  Meanwhile, I
took a clean (but not sterilized of all life forms) glass of warm water, and
dumped in the 2 packets of dry (boo, hiss!!) yeast in to "activate".  After my
boil was done, I cooled the pot of hot wort in my kitchen sink, and dumped it
into the carbouy for a total volume of almost 5 gal.  Finally, I pitched in
my "activated" yeast, and affixed a stopper with a "blowoff" tube and swirled
the whole thing around on my way down to the basement.

I started it on Sun pm, and Mon am it was bubbling away; tonite I will replace
the blowoff tube with the fermentation lock.  But, I never did measure the SG...
I never had the whole thing together until it was in the carbouy, so how was
I supposed to get a "sample" to measure...siphon, but how...I don't know if I
want to "suck on the hose"...and if I want to measure the SG to see when its
ready to bottle, how do I avoid the "sucking" problem (sorry).

Not worried,

Tim Carlson		
Hewlett Packard	
Fort Collins, CO 	
timc at hpfctjc.fc.hp.com	

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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1991 11:15 EST
From: GERMANI%NSLVAX at Venus.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: plastics (again?)

Greetings,
	Does anyone know just what "food grade" plastic really means?  I 
have a 5 gal. Nalgene container with a spigot near the bottom.  It would be 
ideal to rack to before bottling.  It is made out of LDPE (low density 
polyethylene, I think).  Is this compatable with beer?  I've seen some 
"food grade" plastic containers that are HDPE (high density ...) but none 
so far labeled LDPE.  Does anyone out there know anything about this?
 
Thanks,

	Joe 

Bitnet: GERMANI at YALEVMS
Decnet: 44421::GERMANI


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

"Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire." 
						--David Rains Wallace

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

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Date: Tuesday, 24 September 1991 9:55am ET
From: joshua.grosse at amail.amdahl.com
Subject: re: questions from Bob


In HBD 730 (9/24), Bob Hettmansperger wrote:

>1) I just had to junk an entire batch of Canadian Ale. )-:  I was suspicious of
>it all along, because the primary fermentation was late and occurred while my
>A/C was down.  I'm guessing that bacteria managed to get a foothold before the
>yeasties had a chance to do their duty.  My question on this is whether you can
>tell by tasting the "beer" before you bottle it whether it will be worth
>bottling.

Yes.  At least, what I do when I'm concerned is: draw a sample with a
wine thief, cool it or warm it to 60 F, measure its gravity, then drink
the sample.  I always adjust the sample to 60 F because I find that its
easier than doing math to adjust the gravity measurement.   I find that
if the wort tastes sweet, it isn't done, and that if it tastes flat and
dry, its probably done.  My testing equipment includes thermomter,
hydrometer, iodine, and my mouth.  I'm always looking for a bad taste
that would indicate infection.  Since I switched from open to closed
fermentation, I've not had a problem, but I always want to check.

>2) I HATE sanitizing my bottles.  Can I run them through the dish-washer before
>bottling (perhaps with no soap, or with B-Brite) instead of dunking and rinsing
>by hand?

I do.  I clean them first.  My dishwaser doesn't get the insides of the
bottles clean, but it does get them hot enough to sanitize 'em.  I use
no detergent or sanitizer; instead I just run the dishwasher making sure
the heater is turned on to get the water above 170 F.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Grosse                                jdg00 at amail.amdahl.com
Amdahl Corp.                               313-358-4440
Southfield, Michigan

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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 08:08 PDT
From: alm at brewery.intel.com (Al Marshall)

To:  homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Subject: Noonan, Chloride, and USP Grade Chemicals


Ohhhh boy, don't get me started about G. Noonan's "Lager Beer".
But since I'm starting to get interested in brewing lighter beers,
a question about something Noonan says:



In TCJOHB, Papazian states that wheat malt is weak in diastatic
enzymes and must be mashed in conjunction with barley malt
of great diastatic power.  I have seen this opinion stated elsewhere
I think; Gary Bauer's article in the Zymurgy All-Grain Issue comes
to mind.

I am aware of some dissenting opinions and (I think) some counter
examples:

Miller, Fix and Foster in their books on Continental
Pilsener, Brewing Science and Pale Ale respectively state that
wheat malt has plenty of enzymes (Miller and Foster say this in
text, Fix shows the DP of Wheat Malt in a table).

The Widmer Brewing Company of Portland Oregon mashes Briess wheat malt
and Klages 2-row pale in a 50/50 ratio without any diastatic crutches
that I am aware of.  Anchor uses an even higher ratio of wheat/barley
according to their outstanding tour-guide and only has problems
with the runoff, not the mashing.

I have only mashed tiny amounts and ratios
of wheat/barley up to now; and so am without direct experience.

Are Papazian and Bauer completely wrong?  Do I understand the problem? 

================================================================
                                    |
R. Al Marshall                      | Insert clever aphorism here.
Intel Corporation                   | 
alm at brewery.intel.com		    |
                                    |
================================================================

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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 08:21 PDT
From: alm at brewery.intel.com (Al Marshall)

To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com 
Subject: Chloride ions & USP; First posting was botched  


Sorry about the last botched posting (old mail text inserted by
mistake).

Now, the REAL questions:

	1. Noonan in "Lager Beer" makes an offhand remark about
	Chloride levels > 100 mg/l being inappropriate for a "light"
	beer.  (He then says that up to 350 mg/l is acceptable above
	1047, which makes it sound like the rules suddenly change at
	that exact gravity; I'm sure this is not literally
	true nor his intent).

	When using CaCl[2] or NaCl, what have folks discovered about
	acceptable levels of Chloride in mg/l for lagers around 1045 OG?
	
	2. By my calculations, adding enough Calcium Chloride to achieve
	100 mg/l Ca also gives 170 mg/l Chloride.  Does this seem right?

	3. I'd like to get some CaCl[2]*2H[2]O from a local lab supply
	to experiment with mash conditioning.  Is USP the right grade
	for this purpose?

================================================================
                                    |
R. Al Marshall                      | Insert clever aphorism here.
Intel Corporation                   | 
alm at brewery.intel.com		    |
                                    |
================================================================

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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 09:33:34 -0600
From: dinsdale at chtm.eece.unm.edu (Don McDaniel)
Subject: Banana beer


Cole,

Are you kidding?

I've got over a case of banana bock you can have for the shipping.
I made it without any bananas.  It was a partial mash from Miller's
recipe made with Munich Lager yeast (Wyeast).  The primary and secondary
fermentations were conducted in my basement at a reasonable temp.  The
beer tasted very promising at bottling.  I moved the day after bottling to
a house without a basement, so the bottle conditioning was done in a
garage which was considerably warmer that optimal for a lager.  The net
result:  a strong odor and flavor of banana... undrinkable.

Interestingly enough, I bought a bottle of Paulaner Salvator this weekend
and noticed a little of that same banana ester in that brew.  Maybe a little
of that is to style, but I don't like it.  I find the Spaten Optimator
to be cleaner and more enjoyable.
Don McDaniel

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Date: 24 Sep 91 09:46:55 EDT (Tue)
From: GC Woods <gcw at garage.att.com>
Subject: NJ Homebrew Clubs


>From: Bob Hettmansperger <Bob_Hettmansperger.DIVISION_2733 at klondike>
>4) Does anyone know of any homebrewing clubs in North/Central Jersey?  If not,
>does anyone have any good ideas on how to start one?

Here is a list of the homebrew clubs in NJ.

Mid-Atlantic Sudsers & Hoppers (MASH)
Ed Busch 908-359-3235
This is the club I belong to - we meet the 2nd saturday every other
month (next Nov 9). Meetings held in different homes from Clifton -
Hillsboro. Ed is on the Zymurgy board of advisors and is also involved
with getting homebrewing legalized in NJ.

South Jersey Fermenters
Mark Scelza 609-499-0952
Meet around Florence

The Yeastie Boys
Joe Sabin 609-737-1085
Meet around Pennington

Warthogs
Don't have a name/number right now
Meet at the "Front Porch" - I believe it's off route 23 north of 80

						Geoff Woods
						gcw at garage.att.com

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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 08:25 MDT
From: drutx!homer at att.att.com
Subject: Competition listings in Zymurgy


>From: synchro!chuck at uunet.UU.NET
>I have heard from reliable sources that Zymurgy is refusing to
>list HWBTA sanctioned competitions.  The only reason the Dixie
>Cup is listed is because they bought an ad in Zymurgy.

Zymurgy will list HWBTA sanctioned competitions.  There has been
a communication problem getting the information from the HWBTA
in time for the Zymurgy Calendar.  That is being worked on.

The Dixie Cup is sanctioned by both the AHA and HWBTA.

Jim Homer
att!drutx!homer

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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 13:25:06 EDT
From: Jack Sinclair <jsinclai at descartes.waterloo.edu>
Subject: Brew kit


I noticed in a store the other day a small brew kit that consisted of a 
little keg (holds 28 beer), a CO2 cartridge, a tap, and a few other gizmos.  
This kit claimed that all one had to do is put the ingredients in, stir,
wait 7 to 10 days, and then pour yourself a beer!  Talk about convenience.
Question: has anyone had any experience with this setup?  Is it as good as
it sounds? What about replacement CO2 cartridges?

Jack

- --
jsinclai at descartes.waterloo.edu
Home of the Bushveld.

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Date:     Tue, 24 Sep 91 13:38:17 EDT
From: Jeanne Sova (ASQNC-TABSM 5320) <jsova at APG-EMH5.APG.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Re:  Homebrew Digest #727 (September 19, 1991)

In response to Ken Weiss' response to Norm Hardy,  sorry guy, but I'm 
VERY tired of seeing "skinny ladies with big busts and come-on faces with 
a lot of skin."  Beer commercials have always been very sexist, and
one sidedly so (if that's a word).  Not very appealing to us females,
although the idea of good food, good company and good sex is.

And in response to Su Misra's comment:
"Yeah, like any of those babes in the Miller commercials would
actually be caught dead drinking beer...Seltzer water is more their 
thing, methinks"
I don't know what kind of babes you find, but I can tell you my babe 
friends and I would much prefer an ice cold brew over Seltzer water, in 
a heart beat.

jeanne
Beer is good food.

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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 10:56:58 PDT
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Beer Fests


Well it's beer fest time again. This weekend (Sept 28-29) is the 
California Small Brewer's Festival. It's held in Mountain View in
the lot behind the Tied House (954 Villa St.). I went last year
and would recommend it to anyone. It's a good opportunity to sample
beers from around the state and talk to the brewers as well.

The following weekend (Oct 4-5) is the Great American Beer Festival
in Denver. This year, I am fortunate enough to be able to attend.

Are there other HBD'ers out there who will be going to one or both 
of these?? It's always a surprise to actually meet the faces behind 
the bits. Any takers??

CR

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Date: 24 Sep 91 14:02:09 EDT
From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Comments in General

On the subject of oxidation and momilies, etc. and on and on, I would weigh in
heavily in support of Mike Ligas' comments in HD730: his explanation of the
difference between bottling carbonated and un-carbonated beer is the central
point. It's also not even faintly clear to me why anyone would *want* to let
their beer fall several feet through the air when placing the end of the syphon
hose under the level of liquid is so simple--except as a visual device for a
video. Not enough reason, IMHO, to take the very real risk of oxydizing beer.
Has Jack Schmidling never tasted oxydized beer? If that's the case, I would be
happy to let him join us in judging homebrew at the Oregon State Fair next May;
I'm sure we'll find him some good--well, bad--examples.

On sterilizing bottles, in response to Bob Hettmansperger:

>I HATE sanitizing my bottles. 

Amen. I have found the simplest and most effective way to deal with this nagging
problem (on advice from WYeast's Dave Logsdon). I put my clean bottles in an
oven, turn the temp to 350^ and leave them for 1-1/2 hours, turn off the oven
and let them cool down to be filled. This can be done the night before bottling,
or if I want to do it well ahead of time, I put little foil caps on each bottle
before sterilizing, then put them back in their cases (with the caps intact)
until I'm ready to bottle. No problem! This has made the whole concept of
bottling *much* more palatable.

The school in question, is the Siebel Institute, which seems to specialize in
training people already in the brewing business for advancement in their trade.
Other than the brewing program at UC Davis, I believe this is the only brewing
school in the US. Here in Oregon, it seems that most of the brewers got their
start working as flunkies for other brewers. Teri Fahrendorf at Steelhead
Brewing in Eugene and Jamie Emmerson at Hood River graduated from Siebel. The
founding brewer at BridgePort, Karl Ockert, graduated from the Davis program.
Most of the first generation microbrewers were just very brave homebrewers who
might have taken a short course from UC Davis.  I think the only way to get on
as an "apprentice" is to be lucky enough to take a low-paying job as a brewer's
assistant and slowly work your way up--or get some real breaks.

On scales, and accuracy, in response to Greg Roody:

>accuracies as high as 1/100th of a gram.

Yup, pretty silly, given the raw materials. I use a shotgun loading scale
calibrated in grams (no, I don't know why it is, but my dad purchased it from a
scientific supply company many years ago, maybe that's why), for measuring
pelletized hops. *Primarily,* though, I borrowed it from the old man to use in
weighing out gypsum and such for water additions.

On Greg Noonan's book:

I have heard the book retitled elsewhere as "Everything You Know Is Wrong",
which pretty much sums up my attitude toward it. I found the writing turgid and
the methodology questionable.  According to Noonan, as I recall, a normal
brewing day would run to about 18 hours and the next six months would be taken
up drawing samples for specific gravity. At one point, we calculated the end
result would be about 1 bottle of very good lager after all your work and time.

To Warren Kiefer:

What makes you think you got 24 hour fermentation? From what I read, your
fermentation pooped out after a pretty vigorous start. Did you aerate the wort
really thoroughly? It's not too late to agitate things and try to stir up some
action.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
===Yeast Washing for the Homebrewer===

The following notes were taken from a demonstration given to the Oregon Brew
Crew by Dave Logsdon of WYeast Labs, on September 12th. According to Dave, it
was important for healthy yeast to be washed free of trub and hop residue so
that it could be stored for future use. Dave said that the problem with simply
storing the mixed contents from a carboy after fermentation was that the
unwanted particulates would suffocate the yeast over a period of time. Most
breweries, Dave stressed, use an acid wash; the sterile water wash is much more
practical for homebrewers.
	
Objective: To recover yeast from a finished batch of beer for repitching or
storage for future brewing.

Materials: One primary fermenter after beer has been siphoned off or otherwise
removed.

Three sanitized 1-quart Mason jars with lids, half full of sterile or boiled
water. They should be cooled down, then chilled to refrigerator temperature (ca.
38^F).

Procedures:

1) Sanitize the opening of the carboy (flame or wipe with chlorine or alcohol)

2) Pour the water from one of the quart jars into the carboy. Swirl the water to
agitate the yeast, hop residue and trub from the bottom.

3) Pour contents from the carboy back into the empty jar and replace the cover.

4) Agitate the jar to allow separation of the components. Continue to agitate
periodically until obvious separation is noticeable.

5) While the viable yeast remains in suspension, pour off this portion into the
second jar. Be careful to leave as much of the hops and trub behind as possible.

6) Agitate the second container to again get as much separation of yeast from
particulate matter as possible. Allow contents to rest (about 1/2 hour to 1
hour) then pour off any excess water--and floating hop particles--from the
surface.

7) Pour off yeast fraction which suspends above the particulate into the third
container.* Store this container up to 1 month refrigerated. Pour off liquid and
add wort 2 days before brewing or repitch into a new brew straight away.

*It should be noted that in the actual demonstration, Dave eliminated the final
step; the yeast in the second jar was essentially clean at this stage and
seemingly fine for storage.






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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 14:56:33 CDT
From: kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kurt Swanson)
Subject: Mail order grain...

What experiences have other people had in securing a source for cheap, quality
malt?

In my experience, there are 2 stores nearby, here in Chicago.  One has good
quality grain, if you're willing to pay $1.25/lb, with no volume discount.  The
other has moderate prices, a volume discount, and bugs in the grain...

So, I tried a couple mail-order places.  The Malt House in Indiana sent me
25lbs. of 2-row for $17, but shipped it in a brown-paper grocery bag, sealed
with masking tape.  It was not completely dry, developed mold, and had some
dormant (and some not-so-dormant) bugs that looked curiously like malted grain,
except for the fact that barley doesn't have six legs.  The last place I
ordered from was The Malt Shop/Kettle Moraine Vineyards, in Wisconsin. except
for Rye malt, everything they had for sale was under $1/lb, and they have a
volume discount.  They also shipped it in thick, sealed, plastic bags of small
size - definite plus...

Does anyone have a good source for grain in the midwest (i'd like to stay in
UPS zone 2 to reduce shipping cost)???  Otherwise, it seems like the Malt Shop
is the way to go...
- -- 
Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science,
Northwestern University.  kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu

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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 15:01:54 CDT
From: kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kurt Swanson)
Subject: The Zen of Crushing Grain...

After two unsuccessful sparging operations, I came to the conclusion that I was
grinding the grain too fine with m- m- m- m- my Corona.  I have to put 10
washers on each side bolt in order to have the adjusting screw have any effect
whatsoever.  Could someone give me a detailed description of what crushed grain
should be like? (I find Miller's description lacking).  What would be the
optimum in crushed grain - husked removed but intact, and kernal split into two
even pieces???
- -- 
Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science,
Northwestern University.  kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu

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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 13:01:11 PDT
From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com
Subject: sex, beer, and TV

Norm Hardy reviews some recent TV commercials:

>good sex, and bad beer.  The Silver Bullet sure comes UP nicely at the end
>and finishes with a nice explosion of apparent pleasure.  Hey, I'm not for
>censureship, but sometimes I wonder....
>
>Like, how many skinny homebrewers do you know?  Okay, so how many stay that
>way?  Not me. 

This is the common trouble with TV anyway.  Using women's bodies to sell
products is everywhere on TV.  I believe this is a form of rape and is 
part of the basis for why there is so much violent crime against women
in this country.  Fortunately, I live in a part of the country where I
can receive only one channel (which wigs in and out).  Somehow, I don't
think I'm missing much.  I have much more time to spend on family and
home brewing.

Oh, and by the way, if a contest is ever held to award the skinniest
homebrewer, I will win it hands down.



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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 15:59:15 CDT
From: "Anton E. Skaugset" <skaugset at aries.scs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: dry hopping

Hello all.

I have a question that I posted to rec.crafts.brewing, and got no reply.
Since the weather has gotten cooler in the midwest, I am getting ready to
start brewing again.  I have taken advantage of the HBD during the hiatus
and picked up a lot of helpful tips and techniques (Thanks to one and all).

I am planning on brewing an India Pale Ale, and I want to try dry-hopping
in the secondary.  There has been lots of discussion lately about hops and
dry-hopping technique, and this may be a stupid question, but if you plan
on dry hopping, should you use any finishing hops?

Dry hopping supposedly gives you a much more pronounced aromatic hop
character, why should I "waste" hops by tossing them into the boil to get
aromatics?  I'm not referring to bittering hops, which I plan on using as
usual.

Thanks in advance,

Anton E. Skaugset
skaugset at aries.scs.uiuc.edu
University of Illinois
Reed '87


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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 14:49:04 PDT
From: greg at cemax.com (Greg Wageman)
Subject: Point/Counterpoint

rsd at silk.udev.cdc.com (Richard Dale) says, in essence:

Jack, you dunce.  Teaching beginners that splashing the beer into the
carboy is a Bad Thing.  Shame on you!

arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) responds, in essence:

Richard, everyone's a film critic.  I like the shot, it's my video and
I'll do whatever I like in it, nyah.

I write:

Fine.  Could we please let it go at that?  OK?  Please?

	-Greg (cemax!greg at sj.ate.slb.com)



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Date: 24 Sep 91 16:43:14 EDT (Tue)
From: GC Woods <gcw at garage.att.com>
Subject: Zip City Brewing - NYC


For the NYC area HBD folks, the "Zip City Brewpub" will be opening
in approximately 2 weeks (if all the inspections are passed). The 
address is 3 West 18th Street (NYC) and phone # is 212-366-6333.
Call to be put on mailing list.

					Geoff Woods

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Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1991 20:56:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Samuel Patrick Ward <sw20+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: cheers



    Until today, I could only read the messages on this b-board and lick
my lips, but no more!  At approx. 5:40pm this evening, I drank my first
bottle of homebrew.  At approx 5:50, I drank my second bottle of
homebrew.  I then ran off to post this message.  Anyway, it was all  had
hoped it would be, and tasty too!  It makes me proud to be an active
member of the homebrew community, thumbing my nose at commercial beer
for ever more.  Well I just wanted to say cheers! and Krispenclouten!

    By the way, does anyone have a recipe for a beer similar to the
belgian brew Palm?  Has anyone heard of it at all?  I had it there
several years ago and was very impressed, and would like to emulate it
in my homebrew.


                                            Thanks
                                                Sam  

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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 01:24:31 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: guiness stout recipe


Basically, follow Papazian's recipe for "Dark Sleep Stout", except
omit the Crystal Malt and (most importantly) use a very attenuative
ale yeast.  Throw a bottle of soured beer in the boil (never tried
this part - I hate guiness' sourness).  The M&F stout kit is a
really good starting point, but M&F ale yeast isn't atenuative enough.

bb


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #731, 09/25/91
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