---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Clean Chillers (Jim Grady)
  Re: Sanitizing Bottles (John DeCarlo)
  Re: PME (Petrified Malt Extract) (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Sanitizing Bottles (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Legality of Brewing (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Canned Malt Extract (John DeCarlo)
  Bottling Beer (John DeCarlo)
  Low attenuating yeast (S94TAYLO)
  Re:   NITROSAMINES (Jack Schmidling) (adietz)
  Primimg Sugar "foam up" (LutherNet)" <SONNTAJM at CRF.CUIS.EDU>
  More banana info (GC Woods)
  Racking to secondary... (Dave Beedle)
  mead oxidation (Russ Gelinas)
  Bottled Water (Rob Malouf)
  Stuck Fermentation?? (Carey Jung)
  Guinness spelling (BREIN)
  brew pub (nnieuwej)
  flaked barley (Brian Bliss)
  homebrew stack for the mac (DLATEX)
  Hop seminar & wet hopping. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Bag the hops! (dude) (Chris Shenton)
  dry hoppping (Gerald Andrew Winters)
  Wy is my Wyeast so Wyld? (Frank Tutzauer)
  non-jelling jelly (D_DAVIDSON)
  Re: Banana Beer, oh no (Kevin L. McBride)
  Shocked Sierra Nevada yeast (Ken Ellinwood)
  On #735 (Jeff Frane)
  Mead (DAVID KLEIN)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
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[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 7:11:35 EDT
From: Jim Grady <jimg at hpwald.wal.hp.com>
Subject: Clean Chillers

I made an immersion chiller for my last batch and was wondering what
you all use to keep them clean & shiny.  Before I used it I gave it a
cursory scrub but did not worry too much about sanitation since it would
be going into the boiling wort.  When I pulled it out of the wort, it
was much shinier than when it went in & I shuddered to think of what I
had put into my beer!  The beer has an off-flavor but it is also the stuck
batch that I wrote about earlier.  I believe it stuck because of temperature
so I don't know which is the culprit here.

The chiller is made from 1/4" I.D. copper tubing.  Following some advice in
these pages for cleaning copper pot scrubbers, I tried cleaning the chiller
by putting it in a weak, boiling vinegar solution.  That seemed to clean
up the submerged part nicely - the part that was out of the liquid got
worse.  This also does not do anything to prevent it from oxidizing later.

Do I just need to do this each time I brew?  Is there a better method?  
I have a 5 gal pot on an electric stove so bringing 3-4 gal to a boil
twice in one batch is no small feat.

And, while I'm on the subject of chillers, I actually was more worried about
infection with this last batch.  The chiller is taller than the brewpot so
even if I put the lid on, there is about a 2" gap between the lid and the
pot as the wort is cooled through the temperature danger zone.
When the wort was cooling in the carboy, it is sealed off from the environment
even though it cools much more slowly.  I put some cotton wool in the 
fermentation lock (as well as water) to help discourage nasties.  What
do people think?  Am I worrying for nothing?  Thanks in advance.

- --
Jim Grady			  |
Internet: jimg at hpwala.wal.hp.com  | "Better thin beer than an empty jug"
Phone: (617) 290-3409		  |			- Danish Proverb

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Date: Tuesday, 1 Oct 1991 08:25:17 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Sanitizing Bottles

>From: Bob Hettmansperger
       <Bob_Hettmansperger.DIVISION_2733 at klondike>

>2) I HATE sanitizing my bottles.  Can I run them through the
>dish-washer before bottling (perhaps with no soap, or with
>B-Brite) instead of dunking and rinsing by hand?

If your dishwasher has a "heated dry" cycle, which produces steam
(mine does), it will do a very nice job of sanitizing them for
you (they end up pretty hot, though!).  Just start at the rinse
cycle, since they are presumably clean already, and don't use any
detergent.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Tuesday, 1 Oct 1991 08:26:52 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: PME (Petrified Malt Extract)

>From: russo at carlos.sps.mot.com (Russell L. Oertel)

>While making up a batch of India Pale Ale last night, I
>discovered that the summer humidity had turned my DME into
>something better suited to building a house out of rather than
>brewing beer from.  After several hours with a hammer and lots
>of hot water, I finally managed to get it all dissolved.

Hmmm.  Luckily, I haven't had this happen to my DME, but it has
certainly happened to my brown sugar.  The solution in that case
is to simply put the block into the microwave and heat for a
minute or three at high heat.  It should come out nice and soft,
for some chemical reason, I am sure :-).

John "I've had petrified sugar be completely unaffected by
      pounding with a hammer" DeCarlo

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Tuesday, 1 Oct 1991 08:27:44 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Sanitizing Bottles

[ARF says:]
>In addition to glass bottles, I bottled the beer in 4
>plastic pop bottles.  Two pint and two liter bottles.
>They were all processed, cleaned and sterilized in the same
>manner and at the same time.

>All the glass bottles are contaminated and vile and all of
>the plastic bottles have no bacterial film and taste normal.

May I ask a simple question?  How did you sanitize the caps?  A
friend of mine had this happen to him, and he sanitized the
plastic bottle caps with the bottles.  He usually boils the
regular bottle caps (as I do and suggested to him), but forgot
this time.

Especially if your beer was foamy when you bottled, the caps
could have infected the bottles.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Tuesday, 1 Oct 1991 08:30:08 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Legality of Brewing

>From: Bob Hettmansperger
       <Bob_Hettmansperger at klondike.bellcore.com>
>Subject: follow ups

>> Ed is on the Zymurgy board of advisors and is also involved
> >with getting homebrewing legalized in NJ.

>Whoah.  I thought homebrewing was legal in all states (that's
>what most of the literature seems to say).

Guess what, the literature is either *implying* this or wrong.
Homebrewing was only made legal on the *federal* level in 1979.
So it was illegal *everywhere* in the U.S. before that.

However, some local jurisdictions have passed liquor laws that
prohibit homebrewing.  New Jersey is just one of those.  Georgia
is apparently another, judging from a recent issue of _zymurgy_,
where there was an announcement of a new homebrew club, with the
members names kept anonymous, and their eyes covered with black
rectangles in the club picture.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Tuesday, 1 Oct 1991 08:33:10 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Canned Malt Extract

>From: Peter Glen Berger <pb1p+ at andrew.cmu.edu>

>Okay, I'm not a grain-brewer yet, because I don't have the time.
>But I hate using "kits" and liquid malt extract; maybe I'm
>paranoid, but I don't think it's possible to can ANYTHING
>without causing some pretty severe chemical changes; and, at
>least, my nose seems to confirm this.

Hmmm, could you elaborate on your nose findings?

Let me add that I feel somewhat similar about cans, ever since I
was introduced to extract packaged in plastic bags.  I have had
great success with both the extracts from Williams Brewing in
California, and the extracts from American Brewmasters in North
Carolina.  I keep them in the refrigerator until I use them.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Tuesday, 1 Oct 1991 08:33:40 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Bottling Beer

OK, I hope to not be involved in any further flaming, but let me
get a few thoughts off my chest about bottling beer.

1) I think it is Miller who suggests letting the beer settle in
   the bottles for ten minutes or so--long enough to produce some
   CO2 and drive off the air in the bottle--before capping.  And,
   this is with the advocated very small headspace.  Presumably,
   this is the yeast attacking the new priming sugar.  Is there
   any possibility of the beer being partially carbonated in the
   fermenter?

2) I used to put that little red plastic cap firmly on the end of
   my airlock.  But I never got any bubbles or glugging in the
   air lock.  Turns out I was pre-carbonating my beer and not
   letting the CO2 bubble out through the air lock.  I now either
   leave it off completely or balance it on top at a rakish
   angle.  Any ideas what it is for?

3) If I use a bottle filler, with a spring that stops the flow
   when pressure is removed, it foams up quite a bit at the
   beginning, until it is under the beer.  If I just fill from
   the tap on the bottling bucket into the bottle, it also tends
   to foam up a bit unless I am really careful and use a slow
   fill rate.  So far, neither of these has resulted in a beer
   that is obviously oxidized, but I worry nonetheless (I have
   tasted a batch that was oxidized--yuck).  Any suggestions?

John "No two batches the same, yet :-)" DeCarlo

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date:     Tue, 1 Oct 91 08:22 EST
From: <S94TAYLO%USUHSB.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:  Low attenuating yeast

Can anyone recommend a liquid yeast that will attenuate quite low.  I have
been using Red Star Ale.  Although I've found the yeast to be fairly clean,
it leaves my beers on the sweet side.  I want to dry my beers up a little.
NO, I do not want to make another "dry" beer!
Any help would be appreciated.
Al Taylor
Uniformed Services University
School of Medicine
Bethesda, Maryland
s94taylor at usuhsb.bitnet

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Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 07:52:23 -0500
From: j_freela at hwking.cca.cr.rockwell.com (Joe Freeland)


Greetings Brewers,

	I have just recently begun home brewing, and also 
reading this digest.  I have some simple questions hopefully
someone can answer or has experience dealing with.

1.	Has anyone ever tried brewing in old wiskey jugs ?
	The ones I have come across have no means of capping,
        it seems as though they must be corked.  Would the 
	fermentation process provide too much pressure for
	a cork to hold ?  Has anyone ever done this or heard
	of it being done ?  I have a variety of sizes ranging 
	from 1 quart to 2 gallons.  I read mention of brewing
	in smaller jugs in the New Joy book, but it doesn't get
	into it too much.  The next question is somewhat related.

2.	I have been wondering about brewing 
	small quantities of a certain variations of a recipe i.e.
	making a five gallon recipe, making some minor "adjustments"
	and then individually fermenting in say 1 gallon jugs.
	Each jug would have a different "tweek" to it.
	This would allow a better A/B comparison for fine tuning 
	the taste.  Has anyone ever tried this or am I just
	thinking about this too hard ?

I also have a supplier I have been ordering some begginers supplies
from, it seems like they have quite a selection.  They are AGS or
Alternative Garden Supply in Streamwood, IL.  They have a toll number
which is (800)444-2837.

If anyone has ideas and doesn't want to waste digest bandwidth,
or if these questions have been dealt with before, you can email
me at j_freela at hwking.cca.cr.rockwell.com.

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Date:  1 Oct 1991   9:17 EDT
From: afd at hera.cc.bellcore.com (adietz)
Subject: Re:   NITROSAMINES (Jack Schmidling)

Dammit Jack - I'm an engineer, not a medical doctor! 

What are the physiological effects of nitrosamines and why
should I be concerned about this?

 -A Dietz
Bellcore, Morristown

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Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1991 08:19 CDT
From: "Jon Sonntag (LutherNet)" <SONNTAJM at CRF.CUIS.EDU>
Subject: Primimg Sugar "foam up"

When I bottled my last batch of beer, I checked the air-lock to see whether it
was still bubbling away.  It appeared to be done fermenting.  I double-checked
this with the hydrometer which was below the spec. grav. listed in the recipe. 
When I added the half cup of priming sugar (which was dissolved in luke warm
water) to the beer, it foamed up for about 30 seconds making quite a mess. 
Obviously, something went wrong.  Did I bottle too early?  Will all of fmy
bottles be exploding in a few weeks, or will it be flat since the sugars were
used up immediately in the big "foam up"?

(Yes, I'm new at this if you haven't guessed. My history of home brewing: Batch
1 was awful. Batch 2 was great but a little over carbonated.  I'm waiting
impatiently for batch 3 and just bottled batch 4 - the "foam up" batch.)

Jon Sonntag
sonntajm at crf.cuis.edu

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Date: 1 Oct 91 09:21:19 EDT (Tue)
From: GC Woods <gcw at garage.att.com>
Subject: More banana info


>From: dbell at cup.portal.com
>Whaddya know; in the 60's we smoked 'em; in the 90's we brew 'em!
>(the peels, for the younguns hereabouts...)
>"The more things change, the more they stay the same..."
>Dave

>From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
>Subject: attenuation, spelt, bananas 
>You've heard of people smoking banana skins? Well apparently 
>there's something to it, I'm told that sub-fatal doses of 
>arsenic can cause hallucinatory experiences. Guess what gets
>concentrated in banana skins? Arsenic. 
>Probably not a good homebrew ingredient. Peel 'em.

Since this forum is so "into" recipes, I could not resist posting.
(Please send all flames to /dev/null)
According to this article is not arsenic in banana peels which causes 
a hallucinatory experience. I for one however, would not be brave enough
to find out what ingredient does cause the effects (arsenic or Musa 
Sapientum bananadine) or do I care.
***************************

        Believe it or not, bananas do contain a small 
quantity of 'Musa Sapientum bananadine', which is a mild, 
short-lasting psychadelic. There are much easier ways of
getting high, but the great advantage to this method is
that bananas are legal.

        1. Obtain 15 lbs. of ripe yellow bananas.

        2. Peel all 15 lbs. and eat the fruit. Save the peels.

        3. With a sharp knife, scrape off the insides of the 
	   peels and save the scraped material.

        4. Put all scraped material in a large pot and add 
	   water. Boil for three to four hours until it has
	   attained a solid paste consistency.

        5. Spread this paste on cookie sheets, and dry in an 
	   oven for about 20 minutes to half an hour. This will
	   result in a fine black powder.  Makes about one pound
	   of bananadine powder. Usually one will feel the
	   effects of bananadine after smoking three or
	   four cigarettes.

        -The Anarchist Cookbook, William Powell, 1971.

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Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 8:54:21 CDT
From: dbeedle at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Dave Beedle)
Subject: Racking to secondary...

     Hi ho all!  I've got my second attemp at a SNPA clone going right now and
decided last night to try a couple of things I haven't done before.  First, I
racked to a secondary.  Now, what is "normal" behavior (of the yeast) after
racking?  The ferment was going at a pretty good rate before racking.  Now it
is still bubbling the air lock several times a minute but the activity is not
nearly so vigerous.  I was careful not to oxidise and do other nasty thing to
mah yeasties.
     Second, I tried dry hopping.  After some experimentation I was actually
able to get most of the hops (leaf) into the secondary, nothing the vacume
can't handle! ;-)  Anyway, just how much is a good amount to use?  Another
question I saw someone ask else where, do you use finishing hops AND dry hop
or does one or the other do the job?  If you do finish should the amount of
hops be reduced in the finish or while dry hopping?
     BTW, I dry hopped with 1/2oz Cascades, and have 2 oz in the boil, another
1/2oz at 30 min, and 1/2oz at 50 min with a 60 minute boil.
    Thanks!

TTFN

- --
  Dave Beedle                                     Office of Academic Computing
                                                     Illinois State University
  Internet:  dbeedle at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu                     136A Julian Hall
    Bitnet:  dbeedle at ilstu.bitnet                           Normal, Il   61761

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Date:    Tue, 1 Oct 1991 10:06:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: mead oxidation

  Conn C. talked about "bottling sickness" in wines, caused by racking.  He
said it can take 3 months to cure.  But oxidized *beer* isn't cured by more
aging, is it?  Is it that the esters, etc. that result from the 3 month
"cure" are ok for wine, but not ok for beer?  How about for mead (I oxidized
the hell out of one last night....)?

Russ Gelinas
OPAL/ESP
UNH

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Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1991 10:50 EDT
From: Rob Malouf <V103PDUZ at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Bottled Water

I was browsing in a local bookstore when I came across a book that might
be of interest to those of you brewing with bottled water.  It has discussions
of all the major brands of bottled water, including complete analyses of 
mineral content.  Here's the information:

	_The Pocket Guide to Bottled Water-
	Arthur von Wiesenberger
	Contemporary Books
	180 North Michigan Ave
	Chicago, IL  60601
	ISBN 0-8092-4056-4
	$9.95

I hope this helps someone!

Rob Malouf
V103PDUZ at UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU

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Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 10:05:54 CDT
From: carey at alta.tivoli.com (Carey Jung)
Subject: Stuck Fermentation??



Help!

I'm a novice attempting to brew my first batch of beer.  I chose the simple
route, buying a can of Cooper's Stout extract and following the Cat's Meow
brewing instructions.  I boiled the wort for about 15 minutes in about 3
gallons of water, poured it into a sanitized fermenting bucket, and added cool
water to 6 gallons (the recipe size).  The temperature was around 130 degrees,
so I chilled it in my bathtub until the temperature was down to 90 degrees
(specified fermenting temperature is 20-30 degrees Celsius), pitched in the
contents of the yeast packet, stirred it, put the airlock on, and stuck it in
the closet to ferment.  That was Sunday about 2pm.  Well,...it's been two days
now and fermentation is still insignficant (about one bubble every 3-5 seconds
out of the airlock).  

Anyone know what the problem is?  Bad yeast?  (The store where I bought it
doesn't refrigerate it.)  Bad procedure?  (I didn't make a starter.)  What?
I'd appreciate any and all help.  Thanks.

Carey Jung                 TIVOLI Systems                 carey at tivoli.com
                ...!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!tivoli!carey

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Date:    Tue, 1 Oct 1991 8:29:02 PDT
From: BREIN at dsfvax.jpl.nasa.gov
Subject: Guinness spelling

Remember, Guinness is spelled with double-n double-s.

Barry Rein
BREIN    at gpvax.jpl.nasa.gov

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Date: Tue, 01 Oct 91 12:23:08 -0400
From: nnieuwej at pooh.bowdoin.edu
Subject: brew pub

  In HBD #735, Russ described a bad experience with a brewpub in Portland, ME.
I assume you were talking about Gritty McDuff's since that's the only one
I know of south of Bar Harbor.  I was there once and had a great pale ale.
Maybe I got lucky or maybe you didn't.  Hmm, I think I was in there
in the middle of winter.  Maybe what they're serving now is what they
have left after tourist season.  It may be that in the summer they have
trouble brewing their best beers; their production system may not be up
to the demands of the tourists.  Or maybe these were brewed/fermented during
that really hot spell we had a while back.

I don't mean to sound like an apologist for Gritty's since I have no personal
attachment, but this is the first time I've heard anything negative about it.

 -Nils

Oh yeah, Ray Davies of the Kinks hangs out there when he's in Maine.  I think
he has a sister who lives in Falmouth.

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Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 11:57:49 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: flaked barley


I brewed up a batch of all-grain stout, the other day,
and used flaked barley:

8 oz roasted barley
8 oz black patent
3 lbs klages
8 oz chocolate
2 lb barley flakes
2 lb pale malt (very light)
3 lb pale malt (darker)
2 lb vienna malt
1 lb untyped malted barley

The flaked barley has no husk, so I saw no reason not to
grind it finely.  I mashed in at 130 F, and tried to
adjust my ph with gypsum.  I *almost* boiled the water,
but I guess this wasn't good enough, because it required
acid blend to adjust the ph.  I was worred about this,
but figured "what the hell", so what if it's a little sour
from the acid - that's standard in stouts.  The wort
tastes fine now, but think I'll use distilled water
at least for the mash-in from now on. (lesson #1)
(Ph had been easier to adjust in previous batches
where I boiled the water completely)
btw. the grains had a head on them at mash time!
presumably from the flaked barley.

I mashed at 150 for 115 min. The sparge was slow, but
I had 14 lbs of grain in the plastic sparge bucket.
I decided to divide the grain into two halves, and
sparge them separately.  worked great (but I ran out
of sparge water to completely get one of the halves
totally sparged - It wasn't as light as the other
half when it was done.).  lesson #2 - only put 6" or
7" of grain in the sparge bucket at one time. 

I then let the spargings settle, as I always do.
What seemed to be 3 or 4" of hot break settled
out of the initial spargings! I had already learned
lesson #3 (let you spargings settle), but had never
experienced this phenomenon before.  ususally it
is pretty obvious that the sediment is husks (and
there's usually less volume).

I boiled for 2 hours, and used the following hops (all leaf):

14 g bullion (not so fresh) 1:45
16 g cascade (very fresh) 1:45
10 g bullion 1:05
14 g cascase 1:05
4 g hallertauer finish

I didn't meant to terminate the boil about 20-30 minutes
earlier, but then I spilled hot wort all over myself,
resulting in a blister half the size of a golf ball
on my foot.  It took a little time to recover.
As with all my all-grain batches so far, the wort
never boiled over.  I came to a rapid boil (over 45 min),
and convection currents agitated it nicely.
All of my extract brews have foamed up like the dickens
at the start of a rapid boil.

I chilled with an immersion chiller, and strained the
wort through the hops.  instead of the usual hot break
completely clogging up the hop bed, the hops stayed
clean & green - I guess all the proteins came out
when I let the spargings settle, and there were
none left at this point.

It made 5.5 gal of 1.068 wort.  I had 374 out of
450 pt * gals of possible extraction, so an efficiency
of about 85%.  It might have been higher if I had sparged
the one half of the grains a little more (but I had
more than enough volume to boil away, anyway)
There was no evidence of hot break in the fermenter.
I wonder if extra proteins from the flaked barley
coagulated, and brought most all of the protein
out of suspension when it settled.

I pitched a wyeast german ale starter.  This is the
third time around for the yeast.  The first time I
used it, the yeast I was planning on using went bad,
so I even incubated it for an hour and pitched.  It
took a month to ferment (a similar extract stout).
The next time, I just saved the glob at the bottom of
the fermenter.  It took 3 weeks to ferment (a bass-like
ale - but better :-).  I saved some glob from this
batch, and this time added some fresh wort.  This
batch took right off, almost as vigorour as M&F ale
yeast or whitbread ale yeast.  lesson #4.  Of course,
It could be that there were several strains of yeast
in the original packet, and that through repeated
reculturing, I was selectively growing one similar
to what is in the two aforementioned dry yeasts.

I stuck the fermenter in an ice water bath, and
keep it at 65F or below.  It been aroung 60 hours
since pitching now, and the krausen has almost
completely fallen.  I might get to enjoy this one
earlier than I had anticipated.

bb


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Date: Tue, 01 Oct 91  10:08 PDT
From: DLATEX at CMSA.BERKELEY.EDU
Subject: homebrew stack for the mac

Greetings homebrew heads,
I have created a HyperCard stack for the Macintosh which helps with
recipe formulation. There is a Help button on each card, and it covers
the basics for calculating things like Water treatment (playing with ions)
Extract yields (and alcohol percentage calculations), and calculation 
of bittering units (HBU's and IBU's). Should you think you might need this
type of brew widget, send me a self addressed stamped envelope and I will
gladly send it to you. It is FREE (save for the postage). You can reach
me at :
Doug Henderson
434 NE Floral Place
Portland, OR 97232


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Date: 1 Oct 91 13:45:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Hop seminar & wet hopping.

My background in herbal medicine and herb tea preparation may be of some 
help here.  The rule of thumb is:  If you can smell it, you wasted it.

For the hop seminar, I'd do this:  Take each hop and divide in two.  Bring 
one half of each hop to a boil in a weak wort solution to illustrate the 
aroma and, after awhile in the boil, the bittering.  For the taste test, 
use distilled water that has been boiled.  Place the dry hops in cups and 
pour the boiling water over them.  Place saucers over the cups and let sit 
for seven minutes.  More time than that and the flavors begin to get 
bitter.  Remove the saucers and begin the tasting.

If you want to do some work ahead of time, you can save yourself some 
headaches.  The aroma test can only be done with activelly boiling hops, but 
the taste test can be prepared in advance.  This part applies to what Russ 
Gelinas is trying to do, too.  The most concentrated and potent way to 
prepare an herb, aside from eating the herb, is to make a cold extraction.

To do this, prepare a one hundred proof solution of Everclear and water, or 
use 100 proof vodka.  Place a portion of the hops in a bottle with the 
alcohol, cover tightly and let sit, shaking daily, for two weeks.  Strain 
out the liquid and you have a *very* strong cold extract.  Cut this two or 
three to one with distilled water and pass around for samples of hop taste. 
 The hot tea will probably be better, no alcohol taste, but the extract 
will be very accurate in showing the differences among the varieties and, 
as I said, it may be prepared in advance.

Maybe you should pass out hop pellets of the different kinds and let people 
munch on 'em.

Dan Graham,



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Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 14:01:43 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Bag the hops! (dude)

Anyone got a handle if -- and how much -- hop utilization is sacrificed
using hop bags during the boil, rather than allowing them to boil freely?

Thanks.

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Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 14:52:47 -0400
From: Gerald Andrew Winters <gerald at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: dry hoppping

Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at loughborough.ac.uk> writes...

>One phenomenon I have noticed is that dry hopping increases the attenuation
>of the brew. I have proved this to myself by dividing the same brew in half
>and treating each half differently. I would be interested in any
>explanations for this reaction. Here are some tentative ideas : the hops
>introduce additional enzymes or microorganisms into the brew, they cause a
>mechanical rousing of the brew, or maybe simply opening the fermenter and
>introducing oxygen is the key factor.

 This is the first digest entry I've read that comes close to an experience
that has puzzled me.  I brewed a batch that was supposed to end up something
like Sierra Nevada pale ale.  It was an all grain batch and the whole process
went very smoothly with no suprises.  I follow Millers method were I get the
wort to near freezing, let it warm up over night, and rack and pitch the next
day.  After a couple weeks I racked it off the yeast into another carboy 
to let it ferment out and to dry hop.  The beer sat in the seconday at least
another couple weeks before I added 2 oz. of cascade pellets.  I took a 
hydrometer reading and was diapointed in getting a reading of 25.  My taste 
buds also confirmed that the beer was a little too sweet.  I pitched the hops
anyway and closed the lid on my temp. contolled freezer (I keep the temp. 
between 60 - 65f).  When I checked the batch a short while later I couldn't
believe it -- my batch was fermenting to the point of forming an inch of
krauesen on the surface of the beer.  I felt somewhat ambivalent at this point.
I was happy that maybe the gravity/sweetness could be reduced, but what the
hell did I add to my beer?  The beer behaved as if fresh yeast had been added
and seemed to go through all the normal phases -- again.  When I bottled the
gravity was at 10 and tasted okay.  Any explanations?  Also, the hop nose I 
expected wasn't there.  Could this be becuase the CO2 from vigorous fermentation
kind of scrubed the delicate aromas away?  Or are some of the low alph-acid
hops not a particularly good dry hop variety?

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Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1991 16:12 EDT
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Wy is my Wyeast so Wyld?

     I'm working on batch number 4, which is my first time using liquid yeast. 
I'm brewing a steam beer and using Wyeast 2035 (American lager).  When I got
the yeast, I fondled the cool foil package a little, and then popped it into
the fridge.  A couple of days later (Wednesday evening), I broke open the
capsule.  At that time, the package was six weeks old to the day, and I
figured I'd brew on Friday or Saturday, depending on how quickly things
progressed.  The next morning, I expected to see some swelling, but there was
very little.  Ambient temperature was right at 70, so I put the package closer
to the pilot light on my stove.  A couple of days later, there was still very
little swelling.  I thought I'd get something the size of a nerf football, but
this baby never even got an inch thick.  If I shook the packet and put it next
to my ear, I could hear the sizzle of carbon dioxide coming out of solution,
but otherwise there was no activity.  Saturday evening, I figured I had
contrived to kill the yeast, said, "What the hell," and made up my starter
anyway (4 tablespoons of amber DME, boiled in a pint of water for 15 minutes). 
When I split open the package, the remains clinging to the inside smelled and
tasted, well, yeasty (duh...), kind of a cross between bread and beer.
     The air lock glugged for an hour or so as CO2 came out of solution, and
then activity stopped.  Sunday morning, nothing.  So I went off to see the
Bills beat the Bears, and when I came home, lo, there was the tiniest of
kraeusens on the surface of the beer.  The next morning, the yeastie boys were
going great guns.  I figured no way can I brew Monday or Tuesday, so I boiled
up a half cup DME in a quart of water, dumped starter 1 into starter 2, and
set it aside.  Before I transferred containers, I poured off a little of
starter 1 to taste.  Unfortunately I didn't think to do so until after I had
given it a vigorous shake, so there was a lot of yeast in suspension in my
sample...which tasted exactly like apple juice.
     Well, starter 2 still is at high krausen (Tuesday afternoon).  I've
noticed that the yeastie boys aren't flocculating too well.  Is this typical
of all liquid yeasts, or just the American lager?
     Anyway, I'm not really asking what I should do--I'm brewing tomorrow
afternoon, and any answers I get, particularly if they're posted in the
digest, will be too late.  On the other hand, I would welcome any comments on
my techniques and/or experiences.  One of the great things about this digest
is that relatively isolated people like me get the wisdom of Those Who Have
Been There Before.
     I think I'll call the finished beer something like Wycked Wyvern, to
commemorate my first use of Wyeast.

- --frank


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Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1991 16:52 EST
From: D_DAVIDSON%UVMVAX.BITNET at mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: non-jelling jelly

I know it ain't homebrew, but does anyone have insight and ideas
on what makes home-made fruit jellies sometimes not jell.  I almost
hate to find out, since the failure batches have been a source of
great syrup each time my sister's canning doesn't work.  The heating of
the fruit juices in their use as adjunct plays with the same ideas, so
I offered to explore the topic.

T.I.A.           D_Davidson at uvmvax.uvm.edu
         "dammit Jim, I'm a student, not a biochemist!"  (nods to STTK)

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Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 17:28:47 EDT
From: gozer!klm at uunet.UU.NET (Kevin L. McBride)
Subject: Re: Banana Beer, oh no

A note to novices:

There are those purists who will tell you that a banana flavor/aroma
in your beer is a "bad thing."  Don't believe them.

True that the ester which produces the banana aroma/flavor may be
*undesirable* in many beer styles, but it is not an indication that
the beer has gone bad.  When brewing lagers or a nice bitter you
probably don't want the fruity taste.  On the other hand, certain ales
really benefit from the character added by various fruity and buttery
flavors.

For a wicked example of banana ester, pop open a bottle of Samuel
Adams Wheat Beer.  Is this beer true to style?  Probably not.  Is it
delicious anyways?  You bet.

(Of course, some purist is going to reply that he (or she) doesn't
like it because it isn't true to style.  My attitude is that I don't
care what the style is, I either like the beer or I don't.  I happen
to find fruity flavors to be very appealing in *some* beers.)

Remember, the goal here is to RDWHAHB! (or another SAWB which is what
I'm doing right now.)

- -- 
Kevin

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Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 14:32:25 PDT
From: aimla!ruby!ken at uunet.UU.NET (Ken Ellinwood)
Subject: Shocked Sierra Nevada yeast

> To Ken Ellinwood:

> Dave tells me that Sierra Nevada is a particularly cold-resistant yeast
> strain, even though it's a British ale yeast originally. I don't think
> you should worry unless the fermenter had been at that temperature for
> days. Did the fermentation actually cease?

Last week when I reported the problem, it appeared to have ceased.
Last night I relaxed after finding that it was producing about 4 glubs 
per minute in the airlock (at 1018 S.G.).  Thanks.

 - Ken Ellinwood -
  ken at aimla.com

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Date: 01 Oct 91 18:30:46 EDT
From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com>
Subject: On #735

To Stephen Russell: I knew that Dave Miller had some odd ideas, but his
contention "proteins in flaked barley require breakdown by proteolytic enzymes
that have been destroyed by the higher kilning of pale ale malt" is fascinating.
Also, from personal experience, poppycock. For easily two years I have been
brewing batch after batch of ale using British ale malts and a handy portion (2
 - 5 oz./5 gal.) of flaked barley. The result is a wonderful, dense head and
extra creamy mouthfeel--and perfectly clear beer. I would *particularly* not
worry about this if I were brewing a stout; in fact, I've raised the amount of
flaked barley in stout with NO problems. 

On hops: Fred Eckhardt has done tastings like this (look in the back of his book
on beerstyles; isn't there something about this?). My memory is that the hop
teas were simply steeped in hot water. It's not clear to me that you'll get
particularly accurate representations of flavor, but should get excellent
*aroma* comparisons with a 15-minute steep.

To Russ Gelinas: I've saved an empty bottle of what was one of the tastiest ales
I've had, Geary Ale from Maine. Is it still brewed and is it still good?

To Jack Schmidling: That's Briess, with two "ss". Has your "limited research"
gotten any farther than the notes I passed along from Great Western Malting?
 Before anyone goes reeling off to drink Coors (eeagh!) do remember that GW
switched to an indirect process a number of years ago. They supply pale malt
(primarily Klages) to virtually all the west coast breweries, both mega- and
micro-. I *know* they use an indirect process because I've toured their
Vancouver plant at least four times, and have a friend who works there.

To Doug Dreger: Your two-day fermentation is truly astonishing, although I note
you're fermenting at 80^. Wow! I brewed a beer several years ago that started at
1.090 and dropped to about 1.020 (over much more than 2 days, but then I
fermented at 65^). I racked it to gallon jugs and let it sit for 6 months.
Although the beer had dropped clear by then it was still willing to ferment in
the bottle! I kegged it and put a slight amount of CO2 on it, no more than 5
pounds. When I opened the first bottles two weeks later, I was amazed at how
full the carbonation was. Probably the best beer I ever made.


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Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 16:52 MST
From: DAVID KLEIN <PAKLEIN at ccit.arizona.edu>
Subject: Mead


    Yo, Mead brewers...

   I've been brewing beer for a short while now, and have just tried my
first mead (actually a pyment (sp?) (honey and grapes)) and got 'a question

    The mead ended up at about 1.125 OG. this is a 15% potential for alchol.
I am using the red star wine yeast. But the yeast should poop out at aroung
12% alch.

    So)
      1: will the 3% remaining sugar be too sweet?
      2: Since I want a bubbly mead, and assume that I should prime to do so
         (due to a beer bias) What do I do to get bubbles, when the yeasties
         get drunk? (i.e. do I add a bit of water when I prime (how much) or
         do I just guess when to bottle so that the yeast poops out at a
         good time (at what SG?))

    I am at about 4 gallons, and can thus lower the gravity, but really have
   so little info on mead, that I don't know if I should....

Suggestions?

Dave

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #736, 10/02/91
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