HOMEBREW Digest #755 Tue 05 November 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Re: Homebrew Digest #753 (November 01, 1991) (Frank Mayhar)
  Re: food grade plastics (Bob Devine  01-Nov-1991 1414)
  Dave Line's saccharin (GARY MASON  01-Nov-1991 1558)
  Colored bottles (STROUD)
  Deep Sigh (Jeff Frane)
  Honey, Peristaltic Pumps, Coriander Head... (Brian Schuth)
  canning wort (The Hop Devil)
  glass & plastic & light (Brent Ball)
  STUFF (Jack Schmidling)
  An IBU ? 4 U (Frank Tutzauer)
  Dry Malt (Eric Rose)
  Perception ("Russ W. San Fran/CA")
  Canned Guinness Draft!?! ("Russ W. San Fran/CA")
  Grolsch, what again O'Connor? (OCONNOR)
  Plastic / CO2 Pressure / Old Grolsch Bottles (Desmond Mottram)
  bad smell from brew (d1wzm)
  Brew Video (Chris Shenton)
  Mt. Hood hops  (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
  Hangovers (Tom Dimock)
  wort chilling (akullber)
  The siphoning controversy... (Dave Rose)
  Lightstruck beer:  The myth of green light and 525 nm (STROUD)
  Country Journal article (GARY MASON - I/V/V PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503  04-Nov-1991 2133)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1991 20:35:04 GMT From: fmayhar at hermes.ladc.bull.com (Frank Mayhar) Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #753 (November 01, 1991) In article <9111010800.AA15752 at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com>, Brent Ball <staf1282%slcsl.bitnet at utcs.utoronto.ca> writes: |> [..] Last spring I made a batch of Australian Ale and over-carbonated it |> more than just slightly. Nary did a bottle break. |> The only probl em was upon opening the beer because it blew the wire |> closure/porcelain cap clear off the bottles!!!!! This were reinstalled without |> trouble. Several years ago (while we were still in college, in fact), my (ex-)wife attempted a batch of ginger beer. She bottled it using a bunch of Grolsch bottles that we had accumulated. Well, needless to say, this didn't work too well. No exploding bottles, fortunately, but lots of self-emptying ones. I took a couple outside to try to open them without severely damaging ourselves or the apartment. On each of them, I just *barely* touched the wire holding the stopper on, and the stoppers were out of here. We never did find them. And the ginger beer went almost as far. She never tried to make ginger beer again. :-) (_I_, on the other hand, have my second batch of homebrew fermenting away in my closet, and my first batch in bottles [and part of that already consumed].) - -- Frank Mayhar fmayhar at hermes.ladc.bull.com (..!{uunet,hacgate}!ladcgw!fmayhar) Bull HN Information Systems Inc. Los Angeles Development Center 5250 W. Century Blvd., LA, CA 90045 Phone: (213) 216-6241 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 91 13:35:04 PST From: Bob Devine 01-Nov-1991 1414 <devine at cookie.enet.dec.com> Subject: Re: food grade plastics Jim Culbert asks: > If I could line my primary with a disposable liner then I'd have a "new" > plastic primary each time I brewed. A trash bag would do the trick, [...] Several things to beware of: - it is unlikely that the bags are sanitized - the garbage bags that I've smelled (oh no, my secret vice is now public) have a lot of out-gassing. I know that the plastic used in such food-grade containers such as cheap canteens take a while to lose their smell, so this is likely affect your beer aroma (phenolics?) So, this is really an idea that is a false economy. You can buy a new plastic carboy from a water for about $6 and amortize that cost over a dozen batches for an amazing pennies per day... Bob Devine [ hmmm, time to put some sunblock 20 on my bottles to stop skunkiness! :-) ] Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 91 15:59:23 EST From: GARY MASON 01-Nov-1991 1558 <mason at habs11.ENET.DEC.COM> Subject: Dave Line's saccharin I never have seen an answer to this...or even a discussion, that I can remember. Line specifies one saccharin tablet (characterized as the one that has the "sweetness" of one tsp of sugar) per gallon in many of his recipes. What does that mean? The residual sweet taste, with no intentional addition of fermentables? If so, what can one substitute for the same result? If one uses sugar, it will ferment, and presumeably lose it's "sweetness". Again, I assume that what he wants is the sweetness in the finished product only. While I'm here...I have seen several tables relating various malts, etc. through the amount of sugar they represent. Am I correct in assuming that it is this relationship (rough as it is) that one is to use to convert grain recipes to extract recipes? For example (I have no data in front of me), I would assume that the ratio of dry extract to syrup in such a table would be 1.1:1 (or .91), given that most recipes specify 3.3# of syrup or 3# of dry extract. I think I am getting serious again. Nothing like a trip to Real Ale country to get you going strong again. Cheers...Gary Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1991 16:39 EST From: STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com Subject: Colored bottles IN HBD # 753, Darryl R. sez: "I consider the bottle color to be, if not a momily, at least irrelevant. I come to this conclusion as the result of one experiment, and what I hope is common sense....You can take a beer in any bottle, green, brown or clear, and expose it to the sun for as little as 15 minutes and be amazed at the strength of the reaction. I use Budweiser for the experiment, in long neck bar bottles (heavy, dark brown), even though Bud has almost no hops. From this, I conclude that bottle color is irrelevant for commercial beers: if they are poorly treated, it doesn't matter what color the bottle is." Sorry, Darryl, but I think that your experiment is basically flawed. I think that it would be akin to taking two pieces of wood, soaking one of them in water for a day, then burning them both up with a flamethrower. The conclusion? Water doesn't affect the ability of a stick to burn! The problem is that by putting the bottles in the sun, you are putting them in an extreme environment, one which most bottles will never see. The sun is a high intensity light source (summertime in LA?) and puts out large amounts of UV and blue light. None of the colored bottles are totally opaque and as you have discovered, they all skunk quickly. A better experiment would be to put the bottles under fluorescent light and incandescent light at varying distances and for varying times, trying to simulate what a bottle of beer might go through on a retailers shelf. Under those conditions I'd put my money on the brown bottles being much more resistant to skunking. I think that if we are talking about moderately mistreating beer (as in letting it sit under a store's lights for some time), the color of the bottle DOES matter. Ever wonder why the skunky beers that you get off store shelves are generally in green bottles? When was the last time you had a skunky Heinekin? When was the last time you had a skunky SN pale ale? Steve Return to table of contents
Date: 01 Nov 91 19:25:44 EST From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com> Subject: Deep Sigh To Jack Schmidling: Jack, if you don't want comments don't ask for them. For the record, I have taught introductory homebrewing to somewhere between 100 and 150 people and all-grain brewing to 50-60. As far as I can tell, most of these people are still brewing and some of them are participating in this digest. So much for your theory that I'm frightening people away from "our hobby." It is true I'm not interested in teaching people how to make "instant coffee." I've offered people plenty of money-saving suggestions, but my emphasis is on making high-quality beer. None of my students have ever qualified as "mush brained." To Tamar: I love barleywines and see nothing wrong with Dave Miller's recipe, except that I would not use sugar at all. On the other hand, I don't see any need to do the primary fermentation any different than the usual carboy. I filled my cooler-mash tun with grain (seven kinds of malt) to get a four gallon batch. After primary fermentation in a carboy, I racked to gallon jugs (yes, with fermentation locks) where it matured for six months. The beer was great (although Dave Miller thought it was too dark) and still is, four years later. I've had excellent barleywines that were partial mash-extract beers but I wanted an all-grain beer--and besides, it's cheaper. It did take a lot of work, and I had to wait a long time to drink it, which is why I can't understand making only two gallons as Miller suggests. Two things: I didn't sparge at all, but used only the liquid in the mash. I boiled for 2 hours to reduce it to four gallons. I initially pitched a pure champagne yeast, as Miller and others have suggested. It pooped out after two days. Fortunately, I had some ale fermenting alongside and ran a couple of pints of that into the barleywine wort. It took off like a maniac and fermented the beer from 1.094 to 1.025 (at racking). The only real flaw in the beer are some banana esters which I'm convinced came from the champagne yeast. Of the microbrewers I know who brew barleywines, NONE use anything but their regular ale yeast. The British barleywines I've tasted were virtually still and too syrupy for my taste. A too-young Thomas Hardy (about 1 year old) tasted like cough medicine. After four years, it's better. My barleywine was ready to drink a few weeks after bottling, although it's even better now. (I have no idea why it should have matured so quickly, but BridgePort's Old Knucklehead was likewise (perhaps the lack of sugar in each recipe?) Unlike Miller, I would suggest aging the beer in bulk, then bottling. I know that wines age better in higher volumes, and have also heard that Thomas Hardy in pints ages better than that bottled in nips. To Darryl: You know, I think you're right. That's why I always love that Mexican beer in the black-painted bottle. <Aagh! Just kidding!> Seriously, it's clear that not everyone *has* gotten the message about light-struck beer. Otherwise, why would it keep cropping up at beer judgings? If you're going to drink your beer in a closet, it doesn't matter what kind of bottle it's in, but I still think it's courting trouble to use Sam Smith bottles as some homebrewers use. Everytime I sit in the courtyard at Produce Row, sipping a pint of Sierra Nevada I try to set it in someone's shadow. I'm the nervous type. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 91 17:08:04 PST From: Brian Schuth <bschuth at igc.org> Subject: Honey, Peristaltic Pumps, Coriander Head... Pat Patterson asks: >Has anyone tried using honey instead of (corn) sugar at bottling time? >If so, what amount of standard off-the-shelf clover honey is equivalent >to the usual 3/4 cup of sugar? and Norm Pyle writes: >I primed my Christmas brew with honey (typical clover honey >from the local supermart). I used 1/2 cup boiled in a couple of cups of >water for a 5 gallon batch. Is this going to do it? My own experience is this--honey is made of sucrose (very easy for yeast to break down) and is concentrated. I bottled a batch last year using slightly less than 3/4 cups and had a gusher on my hands--no explosions, but a good long wait for all that cream colored foam to turn into black stout! Err on the side of too little rather than too much, and LET US KNOW if you do it right! I've heard this question asked in a lot of places and have yet to hear a real answer, just a bunch of hypotheses (um, like this one :) ). Bob Murphy writes: >The coriander isn't real >strong, but is noticable. Some people have a hard time identifying it. >For some reason they all seem to lack much head, maybe the oils in the >coriander? Certainly the oils in the coriander, I think. I've had the same problem, and I used 2 oz. coriander for 15 min after the boil--not very long, but long enough. Try brewing coffee with some fresh ground coriander in it--the naturally oily coffee gets some good sized mini-pools of oil when you throw in the coriander. >the suggesstion in HBD #752 that the use of >a peristaltic pump might be a good solution was just too much. Here, here! I've done the Absolut-mouthwash-suck away siphon technique for three years, and nary an infection yet! Faugh on chemistry-set brewing! Thank you, Dave Rose. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 91 19:31:19 CST From: hopduvel!john at linac.fnal.gov (The Hop Devil) Subject: canning wort Check the special issue of Zymurgy about yeast. There are several good articles on culturing, the one I wrote on sterile transfer involves a simple modification to canning jars to insure sterile transfer, and using a syringe to move the yeast from purchased pure culture pak to various culture vessels. I even do that in a glove box, but its probably not a requirement on a small scale with just a few 'generations' used before a fresh culture is introduced. I have brewed in a variety of environments, and sanitation is something that can be almost ignored in some cases, and is a real requirement in others. IMHO its better to start off a little overzealous in sanitizing than make a bad batch of beer. This does not mean I soak everything is 50k PPM of CLO4, I admit I was heavy handed with the clorox when I first started brewing, but I only use about 50 ppm at the max anymore. (CLO4 test strips are a restaurant supply houses - cheap) - -- John, The Hop Devil renaissance scientist and AHA/HWBTA certified Beer Judge Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1991 09:30:10 -0500 From: Brent Ball <staf1282%slcsl.bitnet at utcs.utoronto.ca> Subject: glass & plastic & light I am new to this forum and maybe someone has asked this already, but here goes! I've been hearing a lot about the glass vs. plastic ferementers debate. I have gone through several food grade plastic primaries over the years and now that I think about it, I see a direct correlation to the fact that my best beers were brewed in the NEW pails. My logbook confirms this suspicion. So I tend to agree with the person who says change your platic fermenters after 10 batches or so (at this point, this number is quite arbitrary and I would appreciate further comment on what is "the right number") Now I would like to add a twist to the conversation; after about 5 days or so I transfer my brew from the plastic primary pail to a glass carboy secondary to finish up. This is a clear glass vessel and it sits in the corner of my sunlit kitchen (no direct sunlight though). Am I doing light damage to my beer in the process of making it? Should my glass secondary be relocated to my dark (and bit damp) basement or could I simply loosely cover the carboy by placing over it a big(D size) photographic paper "light resistant" bag (this should attenuate all UV)? I guess if I used exclusively stainless vessels this point would be moot but unfortunately my pocketbook isn't that deep right now. By the way, I too use an enameled boiler and it still has its handles and enamel coating in tact. It is 7 years old now and even sees use from my wife during jam season. Finally, I would like to appologise for my terrible typing in my last submission. It should have been proofread but I was in a rush to complete it. Regards, Brent Ball Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 91 22:17 CST From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: STUFF To: Homebrew Digest Fm: Jack Schmidling Re: Martin L. > In the interim, I've had great results from the enameled kettles. I'd feel more than just a bit hesitant, though, to use them with one of those Mega-Burners that turns the bottoms of kettles cherry-red. I am sure you value my opinion dearly but for what it is worth, mine sits on top of a 2500 deg, forced air melting furnace and brings 7 gals to a boil in about 15 min. I suspect talk of cherry-red bottoms on a kettle full of water is a bit of a rhetorical flourish. But even so, you can't possibly hurt a steel kettle on anything even that hot. I originally tested it on a 5 gal aluminum kettle but I felt very uncomfortable doing it and was just asking for trouble. >The thinness of the steel also would preclude my ever even considering drilling any sort of hole in the kettle. I can't speak for new ones but I put a small spiggot and fittings on my 15 year old one and don't know how I ever brewed without one. You will never have to worry about the handles comming off again. Fortunately, if UPS comes through, tomorrow's batch will be boiled in my new SS pot thanks to whoever pointed me to Rapids. I will still mash in the enamel one on the kitchen stove because there may be some advantage in having the boiler ready while sparging. That however, still leaves me with rusty beer. >Red Star produces *LOTS* of esters. Primarily banana esters to be exact. If you have been using Red Star all along, you may have been convering up many of the defects (like oxidation) that we suggest you may have in your beers. Thank you. I have already been warned and EDME is going into tomorrow's batch. From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu> >The presence of phenolics which the clove-like..... BINGO! The second most recent batch (just about drinking age now) has precisely that taste and aroma. Aside from that anomily, it is possibly the best tasting beer I have ever made. It also happens to be my first all (commercial) grain batch and drinking it has become almost a mystical experience. Where did those bloody cloves come from? I used 6 row barley but the same guy who told me that oxidation causes a cidery taste sold me the "barley". He couldn't possibly have sold me wheat malt, could he? From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com> > My tap(s) are mounted on the front door. There is a drip pan underneath, mounted with sheet metal screws, that easily holds the weight of a beer glass--even a full one. The only aerators I know of are sparklers that are used with some beer pumps--not for CO2 driven systems. I hate to be so bold, but it appears that even you could learn something by watching "BREW IT AT HOME". In the cozy privacy of Ken Pavechevich's little conference room at the Baderbrau brewery, he demonstrates his version of the "Pilsner pour". He pushes the handle back, the glass fills up with foam and sets it down to settle out before doing it again. Then he pulls the handle forward and fills three glasses of beer in the traditional "American" way which we all enjoy while watching his silly foam settle down in the first glass. He claims that it is a special tap only avaialable in Europe. >I repeat my previous offer: Come to Portland next May and taste beers at the Oregon State Fair. Out of the 150-200 beers, I guarantee there will be some that are badly oxidized; once having tasted such beer, I also guarantee you will not question the use of the term "cardboard." Thanks for the offer but I just got the name and phone number of the local brew club and I will pursue the idea here. Sounds like good family fun. From: microsoft!larryba at cs.washington.edu <Jack: to get a clear idea of what oxidized beer tastes like, purchase some bland bottled beer (rhinlander is popular out here, Old Milwaukee should do fine), open it up, dump a little beer out, get some air in, re-cap, shake well and store somewhere warm (>100f) for a week. later, cool to normal serving temperatures and serve. It should be pretty awful. Hopefully your test beer will never get that bad. I am not sure why you say that if you read the details of my experiment. The rigor with which I attempted to oxidize the sample makes your process look like doctoral thesis from Masterbrew U. >To get a similar example of light struck, get another bottle and simply set it out in the sunlight for a week or two. Don't use Miller (in clear bottles) - that has been doctored to be resistant to light struck. Damn! I have been collecting Miller bottles cause I like to look at my beer. From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle) >All the anti-Schmid-etism around here is starting to wear thin..... Sure is, thanks. However, think of all the extra publicity my video gets responding to all the whiners. Silly, people... >BTW, I'm no fan of commercial advertising. Maybe we should start a rec.crafts.brewing.new_products? 8^} The one thing it would certainly prove is the idiocy of all the bitching about my one little plug. My guess is that it would sit dormant for about six months until "BREW IT AT HOME, THE SEQUEL" is released. js Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1991 11:01 EDT From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu> Subject: An IBU ? 4 U I'm trying to calculate IBUs given certain hop schedules, or, conversely, what quantity of hops to add at what times in order to reach a target IBU. I've been using the equations in Charlie II, and they're pretty straightforward. The problem is that to calculate percent alpha acid utilization, Charlie refers you to a table that lists the %AAU for various specific gravities and boil times. If I match my s.g.'s and boil times to the chart, I sometimes end up with hop weights like 1.2 oz. Since my scale is not too precise, I would like my hop additions to be in ounce or half-ounce units. I don't want to round off because that can result in IBU swings of about 10 points, more than I'm willing to tolerate. Using some experimentation along with some linear interpolation of the tabled entries, I can get numbers like I want. The problems with this approach are: a) it takes several trial and error attempts; b) it sometimes requires double linear interpolation (the table is a two-dimensional table, so if I want, say 50 minutes at an s.g. of 1.050, I have to interpolate between 45 and 50 minutes and between s.g.'s of 1.040 and 1.070, or vice versa--it's not clear which interpolation should be performed first); c) it seems there has to be an easier way. Surely, %AAU can be written as a continuous function of two variables (time and s.g.). I understand why Charlie provided a table--most homebrewers are probably not the tech weens that many of the HBD people are, so a table is easier for the person who's afraid of equations. Still, I would like to see the equations. So, I guess my IBU ? 4 U is this: What is the formula for expressing %AAU in terms of boil time and s.g. This question is not answered in any of the half-dozen or so books I've got. It sounds like something that would be in Fix, but I'm not yet competent enough to have purchased it. Can anyone help me out? IBU and you be me... - --frank  Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 91 18:14:59 EST From: Eric Rose <rose at aecom.yu.edu> Subject: Dry Malt On a recent trip to my local homebrew shop, I purchased the ingredients called for in the "Wheat Amber" (?right name?) recipe in the Cat's Meow. It called for 3 pounds of "dry malt extract." I asked the shopkeeper for this and he brought three bags of a beige powder out of his fridge, which did indeed say "dry malt" on them. My question is, how do I use the stuff? (I naively thought the "dry" in dry malt meant "not sweet" or something, and that it would be liquid like other malt extracts). Do I just put it into the wort with the can of bitter extract called for in the recipe? Any other technique needed? Please advise, many thanks, - -- Eric Rose Albert Einstein College of Medicine 1300 Morris Park Avenue Bronx, NY USA Disclaimer: All opinions expressed herein are the official positions of the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Yeshiva University, Bronx Municipal Hospital Center, the American Medical Association, the City of New York, and Albert Einstein himself. Return to table of contents
Date: 03 Nov 91 19:37:26 EST From: "Russ W. San Fran/CA" <72300.61 at compuserve.com> Subject: Perception (It seems my Internet connection has been broken form my LAN at work. I sent this originally on 10/30/91. Appologies if it should be redundant by now. RW...) Jack Schmidling comments: >>I use Bud as the low limit and Baderbrau as the upper. Anything in >>between is acceptable, if not necessarliy desirable. I am not very >>sophisticated but I can not drink bad beer, even if I made it. As I >>certainly have made bad beer on occasion, I know what lies beyond the >>lower limit. I have, however never made beer that tastes like cider or >>cardboard. Jack, as far as "you" are concerned your beer has never tasted like cider or cardboard. These are flavors (along with many others found in beer) which different people have different sensitivities to. This is why I suggest you have an independent palate, preferably one that has experience with homebrew, taste your experimental brew against your control batch. Many people like some of the flavors/aromas which occur as "flaws" in brewing. This is especially true of fruity esters which show up in many ales. As far as cardboard is concerned, it isn't so much the taste as the aroma which exibits a character which comes closest to that of "wet cardboard". This is not to say that it "is" the smell of wet cardboard, but that, when many people perceive it in beer, it "reminds" them of the smell of wet cardboard. It is a device to describe an off aroma in the brew, as are many other terms which brewers use to verbalize what their senses tell them about beer. If you are happy with your beer as it is, then keep on brewing as you are. However your position that things like oxidation and off flavors/aromas don't exist or occur, simply because you have not experienced them, is poor science. Perhaps your environment allows you to brew with a casual attitude towards certain accepted practices and still succeed. I have no idea since I don't know you or your beer. When you begin to get feedback from other brewers you may get confirmation of your abilities, or you may find that there are some things in your beer which you are not aware of. Enter a competition where your beer will be judged anonymously and then review the judges' comments with an open mind. Get a second opinion, Jack. RW... Return to table of contents
Date: 03 Nov 91 19:38:01 EST From: "Russ W. San Fran/CA" <72300.61 at compuserve.com> Subject: Canned Guinness Draft!?! (Again, apologies if this shows up twice. I suspect my connection to the Digest via Internet is gone for the moment. RW...) THIS IS NOT A COMMERCIAL ENDORSEMENT I had the good fortune to be invited to attend a very special beer happening (am I dating myself with that term?) recently by Tom Dahldorf of the California Celebrator. The event was Guinness' unveiling of their new product, Pub Draught Guinness. Now, I can hear the lot of you saying to yourselves "Yeah, yeah, another 'draft beer in a can', big deal". But this one is different. For the most part this product actually does what it is supposed to do! Anyone who has had Guinness Stout on draught and from a bottle knows there is a vast difference between the two brews. The brewery makes no secret of the fact that the recipes are different not only between the kegged version and the bottled, but also between different bottled markets. Now the folks at Guinness have developed a system which dispenses their stout from a can in such a way as to rival a pub tap. They have been working on this for some 20 years and the final method was preceded by over 100 failed attempts. The problem has always been the fact that draught Guinness is (or should be) dispensed with a mixture of Nitrogen and CO2 gasses rather than the conventional CO2 alone. The nitrogen is used because it makes very fine bubbles while it is not absorbed into the brew as the CO2 is, thus it does not "over-carbonate" the beer. Also a special faucet is preferred which, in combination with the gasses, creates that wonderful creamy brown head which lasts to the bottom of the glass. The new can combines the original kegged stout recipe with technology which creates the draught effect to a tee. Dr. Alan Forage, creator of the technology, was on hand to explain the mechanics of the new can. This is the way the system works: The 16.9 ounce can (containing 14.9 ounces of beer) is fitted with a small plastic device (Guinness calls it a "smoothifier") which sits in the bottom of the can. This device has a pocket or cavity which is open to the atmosphere via a pin hole in its top. The can is evacuated of oxygen and filled with beer. Prior to sealing the can, a dose of liquid nitrogen is added to the beer. The can is closed and as the liquid nitrogen warms a pressure is created. The pressure forces about 1% of the beer and nitrogen into the plastic cavity. When the can is opened, the pressure is released and the small amount of beer in the cavity is forced back through the pinhole quite violently. The agitation created by this "geyser" mixes the nitrogen with the beer in such a way as to reproduce the tap handle character. Open up the first empty can you have in order to see what the "smoothifier" looks like. Prior to serving, the beer must be chilled. Guinness suggests a two hour stint in a refrigerator, with a target serving temperature of 45-50 degrees (if opened while warm, the beer gushes with excess force). This is the one area where flavor will be variable since most American refrigerators hold their temperatures closer to 35-40 degrees. We all know the colder the beer the less the flavors are perceptible. Education will be the key here. The entire contents should be emptied into a 16 ounce glass. The head which forms is exactly like that of the draught version. And yes, it does last to the bottom of the glass. How does it taste? In my opinion, this is virtually the same as what you get at a well maintained pub. The texture is right on. The flavor is wonderful. I suspect there may be some slight differences as a result of the volume of the package (14.9 ounces vs. 15.5 gallons) but I didn't notice any. According to Declan Maguire, group marketing director of Guinness Import Company here in the U.S., extensive taste comparisons were made throughout Ireland and England during the development of the product. This includes side-by-side blind tastings with the original version. The cans come in packages of 4. The suggested price is $5.99. The stout is 4% alcohol by volume. Guinness is releasing the new product in the San Francisco, Chicago, and Baltimore/Washington D.C. areas to begin with. Locally, Safeway stores are carrying it at $3.00/2 cans. The cans can be recycled just like other aluminum ones. I suspect the insert is made from the same plastic which is used to coat the inside of the can and will burn off during the recycling process. Congratulations to Guinness on the success of this new package. RW... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1991 17:57 EST From: OCONNOR%SCORVA%SNYBUFVA.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Subject: Grolsch, what again O'Connor? SOrry to add one more comment--but since I'm not going to tell you to replace the gasket like everyone else, I thought I throw in my $.25 (inflation, you know). Anyway, my friend Dwight, who shall remain nameless, doesn't like them because he thinks the neck causes the beer to pour funny. Causes too much bubbling or something.I dunno. I don't mind them because of ease of bottling. I've got about 125 or so, and I got 'em from bottle return centers. One suggestions tho', if you plan to enter any of your beers in contests, make sure you bottle some homebrew in 12 ounce or 16 ounce regular bottles. Many AHA contests will not take Grolsch type bottles. I usually put 6-10 bottles/batch in regular bottles. Keep on Brewin' Kieran O'Connor oconnor at snycorva.bitnet Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 91 11:25:27 GMT From: des at swindon.swindon.ingr.com (Desmond Mottram) Subject: Plastic / CO2 Pressure / Old Grolsch Bottles > Date: Tue, 29 Oct 91 8:37:56 CST > From: dbeedle at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Dave Beedle) > Subject: CO2ing preasure kegs.. > > Hit there! I have a plastic 2 (or so) gallon preasure keg which I bought > with the idea of cutting down on bottling. Well, after having used this once > I've decided that oxydized beer is bad and I just don't wanna do it so...would > it be feasable to put some preasure fittings on the keg for C02. I envision > an input and a preasure release valve/gauge thing. Having not messed with CO2 > before I don't know if I'm off base here or not. Assuming I'm not...where can > I get the fittings and CO2? There is a thing called an autoinjecter but these > go for about $40 and use CO2 cartridges. I'm hoping I can do better. Any > tips? Thanks! > > TTFN > > - -- > Dave Beedle Office of Academic Computing > Illinois State University > Internet: dbeedle at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu 136A Julian Hall > Bitnet: dbeedle at ilstu.bitnet Normal, Il 61761 > Plastic pressure barrels with cheap CO2 injectors and cylinders are very common here in the UK. Can't you get them in the States? Ask your home brew supplier if they are made or imported. If you get no joy, I suggest you import them yourself and make a small killing! Rgds, Des - ----------------------------------- > From: darrylri at microsoft.com > Subject: ref recent glass v. plastic discussion > > > You suggest -"going to plastic with good sanitation"-. The rap on > > plastic is that it CANNOT be sanitized for more than a few use cycles; > > after a while it \\will// scratch, and bacteria in the scratches are > > extremely hard to kill. The plastic will also adsorb bleach and release it > > into the wort, giving room for some unpleasant flavors which can be > > perceived at extremely low levels---that's a Hobson's choice for you! This > > suggests that anyone who uses a plastic fermenter should do only a small > > number of batches before throwing it away (or downgrading it to a > > bottle-soaking tub) and getting a new one. > > I would disagree with this dismissal of plastic, although I would tend to > agree with your reasons. I use nothing but plastic right now: a 32 gal. > plastic food grade trash can for primary and polycarbonate carboys for > secondaries. But I don't use bleach for sanitizing: I use boiling > water. This allows me to sanitize with heat instead of chemicals, and > the heat works even if there is not direct contact between the water and > the undesirables. It is true that the inside of my primary is stained and > rough, and has been so for a couple years now, but I have had no difficulties. > [stuff deleted] I have been mashing, boiling, fermenting and barreling in plastic for ten years now and only ever had one batch go bad - after sterilising with boiling water instead of chlorine based cleanser!!! So take care Darryl. Yes it does scratch, yes they probably harbour bugs, but they CAN be killed, and a proprietory chlorine cleanser such as Chempro SDP does not impart any taint to the beer, (though I'd expect bleach to - I'd never use it). I speak from experience, not theory. > > --Darryl Richman > > Desmond Mottram > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 Oct 91 21:14:52 CST > From: caitrin lynch <lyn6 at midway.uchicago.edu> > Subject: English Bitter > > I am trying to duplicate the English Bitter Ale I had in England this summer, > specifically, Hook Norton Best Bitter. Any suggestions. > > Nick. > Get a copy of Dave Line's "How to Brew Beers Like Those You Know". This has recipies for hundreds of famous British beers, and I'd expect Hook Norton Best to be included. I can find out details of Publisher, ISBN if you mail me. des at swindon.ingr.com > ------------------------------ > > Date: 30 Oct 91 01:40:25 EST > From: don karon <72730.103 at compuserve.com> > Subject: Grolsch-oid bottles > > Has anyone experienced any problems using resealable bottles > like the ones Grolsch comes in? Before I go out and drink > 40 Grolsch's I wanted to make sure this was indeed a clever > idea. > I have reused Grolsh bottles for beer and Elderflower Champagne (which produces considerably more pressure than beer) with no problems. I'd say drinking 40 Grolsch's was a very good idea anyway, and you can always get the deposits back if you're not satisfied. > Rgds, Des des at swindon.ingr.com ..ingr!nijmeg!swindon!d_mottram Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 91 12:52:28 MET From: d1wzm at dtek.chalmers.se Subject: bad smell from brew A few months ago, one of my friends & I brewed a batch of Cooper's Lager. When we bottled it it smelled terrible, but the smell has disappeared & the beer is OK to drink. (I have tasted a few bottles & I'm still alive 8-)) rgds hk "wiking" wiklund d1wzm('at' is missing on the keyboard)dtek.chalmers.se Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 91 09:31:04 EST From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Brew Video Doesn't the AHA have a video on homebrewing for beginners, staring all your favorite (:-) stars, like Papazian, et al? Just wondering -- might save us all some time... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 91 09:31:47 EST From: (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu> Subject: Mt. Hood hops In Homebrew Digest #754, David Odden (dodden at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) writes that he's hooked on Mt. Hood hops but that his supplier is not carrying them any longer. Dave: Switch suppliers. I just place an order on Friday with Alternative Garden Supply in Illinois. They have this year's harvest of Mt. Hood hops in stock. (I'm also hooked on Mt. Hood.) They also just had an ad in the latest special Zymurgy issue for Northwestern extracts, $4.95 for 3.3 pounds....this is a great deal....about $2 less than I can do locally. You can contact them at (800)444-2837. Cheers! - ---Mark Stevens stevens at stsci.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 91 10:05:02 EST From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu> Subject: Hangovers - --> Warning! This post is based on "old wives tales" backed up by experience! On the other hand, it does seem to work for me.... <-- Hangovers seem to have at least three components: dehydration, Vitamin B imbalance, and toxins (fusel oil, for example). The first two you can deal with by washing down a fairly large dose of Vitamin-B complex with lot of water before retiring. When bladder pressure gets you up, drink more water. The toxins you can only deal with by not ingesting them to begin with, which means not brewing them into the beer if possible. As to what by-products contribute to hangover, and how much, I'd guess that that is highly specific to the individual? Anybody know any facts in this area?? (BTW - someone asked whether fusel is an oil or an alcohol. My dictionary defines Fusel Oil as "a mixture of amyl alcohols obtained as a by-product in the fermentation of grains.) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 91 10:47:56 -0500 From: akullber at BBN.COM Subject: wort chilling I've only brewed 3 batches, but I've found the following method chills the wort immediately. The night before brewing, I boil 4 gals. of water. I let it cool over night to room temperature in a sanitized pail. In the morning, I transfer it to my 5 gal. sanitized carboy. I then store it in my chest freezer for about 7 hrs. It gets a slight amount of ice on the surface. It is at about 35 degrees F. The boiling wort cools to about 70 instantaneously when added into the cold water. Anybody see anything wrong with this method (besides the obvious "don't forget and let the carboy freeze & crack")? Alan Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1991 11:46 EST From: Dave Rose <CHOLM at HUBIO2.HARVARD.EDU> Subject: The siphoning controversy... Chip Hitchcock writes: >Dave Rose <CHOLM at HUBIO2.HARVARD.EDU> writes: >>$2 you can get a rubber carboy top that has two holes, one for your >>racking tube and one to blow in. >I tried this on the advice of a local supplier; I've never gotten a >cap that could hold in the air pressure needed to push the wort over the >crook of a racking tube (people who have heard me sing can attest to my lung >power, however misdirected). It's possible these caps only work (for >siphon starting) with the (relatively squat) 5-gallon carboy; I have only 6's >and 3's--- I have used mine for 5's and 7's, and I've never had a problem. True, if you just blow into the think it leaks a lot. I just squeeze it tight around the neck of the carboy when I blow, and it works fine. I will say that some friends to who I recommended this device have never gotten it to work, and I am at a loss to explain why, since I have never gone over to watch their technique. However, in my hands, it has never failed. Chris Shenton chimes in: >Seems to me blowing air from your lungs and mouth into the carboy >isn't much better than getting your mouth over the racking tube. I'd think >you'd introduce all kinds of ugliness into the wort. This is a reasonable expectation, but it turns out to be wrong. I work in a yeast lab, and we routinely innoculate cultures by blowing yeast out pipettes into culture tubes; by blowing some bubbles in the culture, the yeast get mixed up. This absolutely does not lead to contamination, or I would never finish my thesis (granted I STILL might never finish, but that is another issue). I have actually done the experiment you suggest, but with a slight modification. There are three tubes: 1. Spit in the tube. 2. Blow bubbles through a sterile pipette. 3. Blow into the tube, or cough or whatever. Tubes 1+3 will become contaminated, but tube 2 will be clean. Saliva certainly does contain micro-organisms, so tube 1 is no mystery. But, apparently, breath is sterile. In tube 3, your breath is directing airborne beasties from the air into the tube. In short, breathing into the carboy is not a problem, as long as you don't drool into it or something. Dave Rose CHOLM at HUBIO2.HARVARD.EDU Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1991 11:55 EST From: STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com Subject: Lightstruck beer: The myth of green light and 525 nm It's amazing how many responses have been generated by Daniel Butler-Ehle's posting in HBD 751 concerning the skunking of beer. It's certainly a good subject to "air out". Tom Strasser's posting in HBD 753 was excellent and visibly demonstrated the vast difference in light absorptivity between green and brown bottles. I must question some recent statements in HBD concerning the relationship between green light and the lightstruck aroma of beer: Algis R Korzonas writes in HBD #753: >Fluorescent lights and the Sun produce considerably >more GREEN light than incandescent lights. It is true that they >also produce more UV, but it is green light (see below) that we >are concerned about when it comes to skunky (or catty - no skunks >in the UK, you see) beer. Here's a part of a post from Darryl Richman in HBD 609: >Light struck is defect noticeable by a skunky or catty aroma. This is >brought on by a transformation in one of the hop constituents under the >influence of green light. Chip Hitchcock in HBD 752 said: >"HOWEVER, skunkiness in beer has been specifically pinned down to a >photolysis of hop extracts at ~525nm; this is well within visible light >(~450-~750nm)." And from John, the Hop Devil in HBD #753: >Boiling hops alters the Alpha acid groups to Isoalpha acids >(isomerization). These Isoalpha acids are unstable in the presence >of light - a reaction occurs with sulfurous proteins resulting in >3-methyl-2-butene-1-thiol, a mercaptan which is perceptible at the >PPB level. The frequency of the light that causes this reaction is 520 >nanometers, which is blue-green. ******************* First, a little information for anyone out there who is unfamiliar with the electromagnetic radiation: Visible light is generally recognized as light whose wavelength falls between 400 and 700 nanometers (nm). Light with shorter wavelengths (<400 nm) is called ultraviolet light and light with longer wavelengths (>700 nm) is called infrared light. Photographic chemists consider the visible spectrum to be roughly divided into red light (600-700 nm), green light (500-600 nm), and blue light (400-500 nm). There are gradations within this range of course, so that light at ~500 nm would look blue-green, etc. From this range of wavelengths we get the red/orange/yellow/green/blue/indigo/ violet spectrum of the rainbow. I am challenging the assertion of postings in this forum that green light (and the "magical" 520 or 525 nm wavelength) is somehow responsible for the skunking of beer. >From every scientific article that I have ever read, it is the high-energy part of the visible spectrum (i.e. blue light), roughly from 400 - 500 nm, that causes most of the damage to beer (ultraviolet light does as well, but that is a different subject for a different time). I would refer you to my posting in HBD #729 (the excerpt from the article by Denis De Keukeleire and references therein). There is also an interesting article entitled "Photochemistry and Beer" in The Journal of Chemical Education, Vol. 59, # 1, 1982, p. 25 in which the absorption spectra of brown and green bottles are shown. According to this article, "It is now well known that the light sensitivity of beer extends from the UV to about 500 nm." There are numerous other useful references in this article. Even George Fix's "Principles of Brewing Science", refers to the damaging wavelengths of light being 400-500 nm. I am very curious as to the origin of the numerous references to green light and especially to the 520-525 nm wavelengths of light being detrimental to beer. To the four people listed above and to anyone else who has made similar claims, I would ask for references to substantiate your allegations. Steve Stroud Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 91 21:36:53 EST From: GARY MASON - I/V/V PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503 04-Nov-1991 2133 <mason at habs11.ENET.DEC.COM> Subject: Country Journal article There was a several page article on homebrewing in the November/December issue of Country Journal. Liberally laced with data and advice from Papazian, it was not very cohesive - certainly not enough to get going with (my opinion). It was enough to pique interest in a conversational way. Cheers...Gary Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #755, 11/05/91 ************************************* -------
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