---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Yeast culturing and Whitbread (Conn V Copas)
  Legality of importing beer (Scott Welker) (S94WELKE)
  SA Cranberry 'lambic' batches ("Ihor W. Slabicky")
  Re: GRAINMILL (Peter Glen Berger)
  re: Kitchen Aid grain mill (Greg Roody - DTN 237-7122 - MaBell 508-841-7122)
  A quote for the season (GEOFF REEVES)
  soda kegs (key)
  Controlling boilovers (Bob Jones)
  Re: GRAINMILL (Eric Simmon)
  RE- Omega Engineering ("Rad Equipment")
  RE: Omega Engineering                 Time:9:26 AM     Date:12/6/91
  STUFF (Jack Schmidling)
  Sparging discussions (joshua.grosse)
  Homebrew post #775 Regarding Bru-Heaters (Tim Thomas ext. 2124)
  Family discord ! (Jim White)
  Edmund Scientific ("Rad Equipment")
  Edmund Scientific                     Time:1:08 PM     Date:12/6/91
  Soda keg types (ingr!b11!mspe5!guy)
  Availability of Legal Kegs (George Fix)
  Hubris/Nemesis (Jeff Frane)
  Avoiding boilovers  (Eric Mintz)
  Grain Mill (Jim White)
  Forwarded: Trub Question.  (Greg_Habel)
  Thanks Darryl ("Dr. John")
  Soda Pop (Paul Bigelow)
  Evil Incarnate (Rob Nelson)
  off-flavoured mead, the continuing saga (Dieter Muller)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
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[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1991 14:32:00 +0000
From: Conn V Copas <C.V.Copas%loughborough.ac.uk at hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Yeast culturing and Whitbread

A note of caution. The majority of my efforts at culturing from commercial
brews (Guinness, Coopers,
draught Flowers Original) have resulted in mildly infected starters. Given
nutrient and oxygen, most showed reasonably short lag phases, and I don't
attribute my problems to poor technique. As reinforcement, I recently read
an interview with one of the Bass Worthington technical staff, who
expressed horror at the idea of home brewers attempting to culture from any
bottle of White Shield older than a couple of months. And then of course
there was the Zymurgy special yeast issue which concluded that uninfected
dried yeast is the exception rather than the norm.

What all this leads to is that maybe every starter should be considered for
disinfection procedures. I don't have the resources or the patience for
separating colonies on agar, so have tended to opt for chemical warfare,
namely, acidification followed by sulphiting. Wheeler recommends using
mineral acids (sulphuric in my case) to achieve a pH of 2.5, held for 6
hours. The sediment is then strained off into a new starter medium.
Winemakers typically employ the equivalent of 1/4 teaspoon sodium met per
gall, and presume that 24 hours ejects most of the volatile sulphur
compounds.

I'm a fraction confused about the mechanism of these techniques, ie,
whether they inhibit bacterial growth, or kill existing cells. This has
implications for the sequence of use. If the former, they should be applied
prior to pitching into the starter, in order to give the yeast a
competitive edge. On the other hand, sulphite is an anti-oxidant, so maybe
the best sequence is acidify the dregs of the starter bottle, culture, then
hit with sulphite after the yeast has gone anaerobic. Opinions anyone ? In
either case, I presume a starter culture at the aerobic phase is ultimately
required.

More musings. After heroic efforts to attain an uninfected Flowers culture,
I recently read that it is probably the Whitbread 'B' strain anyway. Roger
Protz, in the latest issue of "Whats Brewing", slags this strain off as
lacking character and as having acclimatised in some unspecified fashion to
worts containing wheat adjuncts. For what its worth, he believes
Whitbread's practices of using up to 15% unmalted wheat flour, or malted
wheat, result in undesirably 'glutinous' brews. I sometimes whether CAMRA's
politics may interfere with its sensory capabilities, but that's another
story. The yeast itself, according to G. Fix, is a mixture of 3 strains,
and I'm wondering whether any of the aforementioned disinfectant treatments
are likely to change the balance. And does it have any resemblance to the
dried Whitbread yeast available in the US ?



Conn V Copas                                   tel : (0509)263171  ext 4164
Loughborough University of Technology          fax : (0509)610815
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre            
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU                    e-mail -    
G Britain                         (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut  
                     (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk







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Date:     Fri, 6 Dec 91 00:38 EST
From: <S94WELKE%USUHSB.bitnet at VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:  Legality of importing beer (Scott Welker)

In HBD 775, Rich Steuven writes:
>Truth, Fiction, or Urban Legend:
        All beers imported into the US are required to be pasteurized
        and/or to have chemicals such as _formaldehyde_ added to them.

Of course, adding formaldehyde would violate the Reinheitsgebott (beer
purity law) of Germany.  While the law is no longer fully enforced, it's
largely followed (anyone know of any negative examples here?).  So
leaving out the nasty chemicals appears legal, thank goodnesss, because
my existence would be a pretty sorry one without German beer!

That part about pasteurizing, though, that may be true.  I'm skeptical,
however...when I lived in Japan, many beers claimed to be "draft", which
my limited ability to read Japanese interpreted as "mechanically purified",
i.e. filtered.  Several of those beers are available here (sadly, not
Yebisu).
- --Scott Welker       "So many recipies, so few carboys"

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Date: Thu, 5 Dec 91 19:53:21 -0500
From: "Ihor W. Slabicky" <iws at sgfb.ssd.ray.com>
Subject: SA Cranberry 'lambic' batches

	
	    From what I have heard (From the local package store and a friend
	who recently toured the Sam Adams brewery) there were three batches
	of Cranberry Lambic Brewed. One batch made its way into the 12-pack
	case, one into Kegs and the third into all lambic six-packs. All
	three batches are significantly different in taste! (I don't know if
	they are different in recipe.) The kegged version is much lighter
	tasting that the six-pack version. I have not yet bought a 12-pack,
	but have heard from a friend that has had all three that it is
	somewhere in between the two others.  The six-packs were available in

Did they explain why the kegs version of Samuel Adams Cranberry Beer
is so horrible - lager beer with cranberry juice... :-b  

Last year's version was very good.  This year's is terrible.

About adding Coca-Cola to the brewing process and then wanting to try
it with ginger ale.  That may very well be the secret to brewing a
ginger beer - flat ginger ale!  The sugar is already there, and the
flavor too, and you could substitute some of the water you use with
some ginger ale soda...


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Date: Fri,  6 Dec 1991 09:21:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Peter Glen Berger <pb1p+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: GRAINMILL

Gee, Jack, that grain mill sure sounds great, but I don't have $200.
And no, I'm not offended that you posted something that some
hyperactive people might think was a "commercial".

However, since the whole purpose of this forum is for amateur brewers
to exchange information, could you maybe post schematics or
instructions on how we could build our own grainmill?  Homebrewers
everywhere would be grateful.

Thanks in advance,

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Berger		       ||  ARPA:     peterb at cs.cmu.edu
Professional Student	       ||            Pete.Berger at andrew.cmu.edu
Univ. Pittsburgh School of Law ||  BITNET:   R746PB1P at CMCCVB
Attend this school, not CMU    ||  UUCP: ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!pb1p
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Goldilocks is about property rights.  Little Red Riding Hood is a tale
 of seduction, rape, murder, and cannibalism."  -Bernard J. Hibbits
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 91 08:00:31 PST
From: Greg Roody - DTN 237-7122 - MaBell 508-841-7122 <roody at necsc.enet.dec.com>
Subject: re: Kitchen Aid grain mill

Ted asked about using Kitchen Aid's (formaly Hobart) grain mill attachment 
instead of a corona style mill.  I looked at this when I was looking for a 
mill, and at $145 for the kitchen aid attachement, it hardly seemed 
worthwhile.  I bought a Corona from Alt Bev for $41.

One thing I have yet to do however is figure out how to easily attach the 
Corona to the Kitchen Aid; it should be easy but I haven't had the time.  
The problem with using a drill is that it's hard on the drill to turn that 
slowly under load (at least mine gets real hot) and hard on me controlling 
the speed. I use the hand crank at the moment.  Works fine.

/greg

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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 91 09:08:38 -0700
From: 105277 at essdp2.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES)
Subject: A quote for the season


Here's a little something to stir warm memories. It's from Thomas
Hardy's "The Return of the Native" which I've been reading lately.
It describes a Christmas scene which seems appropriate even though
in this case the carolers are serenading two newlyweds.


[Wildeve, their host] produced a stone jar, which threw a warm halo over
matters at once.
	'That's a drop of the right sort, I can see,' said Grandfer 
Cantel, with the air of a man too well-mannered to show any hurry to
taste it.
	'Yes,' said Wildeve,'tis some old mead. I hope you will like it.'
	'O ay!' replied the guests, in the hearty tones natural when the 
words demanded by politeness coincide with those of deepest feeling.
'There isn't a prettier drink under the sun.'
	'I'll take my oath there isn't,' added Grandfer Cantel. 'All
that can be said against mead is that 'tis rather heady, and apt to
lie about a man a good while. But to-morrow's Sunday, thank God.'
	'I feel'd for all the world like some bold soldier after I had
some once,' said Christian.
	'You shall feel so again,' said Wildeve, with condescension.
'Cups or glasses, gentlemen?'
	'Well, if you don't mind, we'll have the beaker and pass 'en
round; 'tis better than heling it out in dribbles.'
	'Jown the slippery glasses,' said Grandfer Cantel. 'What's the
good of a thing that you can't put down in the ashes to warm, hey,
neighbours; that's what I ask?'
	'Right, Grandfer,' said Sam; and the mead then circulated.

Best Wishes for the Season
Geoff

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Date: Fri, 06 Dec 91 11:18:39 EST
From: key at cs.utk.edu
Subject: soda kegs

Ken Weiss sez:
>On a more serious topic, I've noticed that Pepsi and Coke are both phasing
>out the 5 gallon stainless kegs for syrup dispensing in favor of cardboard
>boxes with plastic bladders. This would seem to indicate a coming glut of
>used soda kegs.

I heard this from one other source so I called my local Coca-Cola
distributor.  He said they're going to continue to use the 5 gallon
kegs for post mix (whatever that means exactly - I have guesses)
with the bags being premix.  Anyways, nope, he didn't expect
to kegs to sell in the near future.  As always, YMMV.

Ken Key  (key at cs.utk.edu)
Univ. of Tennessee, CS dept.


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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1991 08:51 PDT
From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov>
Subject: Controlling boilovers

I thought I would add to the ongoing thread on techniques to control
initial kettle boilovers. I keep a spray bottle of water handy and just
spray that foam away. I use a 1 quart size sprayer and can adjust the
spray nozzle for max effect. Get a new one, their cheap(ie don't clean
out a window cleaner bottle). This has worked well for me for a long time.
If I am going for a lighter flavored brew I might skim the scum that forms
the second time around. My experience with adding hops before the boil is
it causes MORE foam up. I always wait about 10-15 minutes before first hop
addition.

Bob Jones

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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 91 12:02:33 EST
From: simmon at eeel.nist.gov (Eric Simmon)
Subject: Re: GRAINMILL


Jack Schmidling said:

>I just finished making a real grain mill.
>I could build /sell them for about $200.

Since this forum is a place for sharing (knowledge, ideas, experience...)
why don't you just tell us how you made it.  If there is anyone else who
has built a mill for grinding malt please tell us how you did it (or what
not to do...).

Thanks,

Eric D. Simmon

simmon at eeel.nist.gov
- --------------------
REGAL LAGER - It's not just a beer it's a palindrome.


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Date: 6 Dec 91 09:33:27 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: RE- Omega Engineering

Subject:  RE: Omega Engineering                 Time:9:26 AM     Date:12/6/91
I ordered a 	Litmustik High Performance pH Tester, Model PHH-1X from Omega
about a week ago, as well as two dial thermometers to complete my 12 gallon
system.  Nothing has arrived yet, but as soon as the meter is tested I'll
report back to the Digest.  I wouldn't worry about being "small-fry" when
ordering.  They take Visa & MC so they must be interested in small sales.  

I think they should do something about the library that they send to those who
request catalogs.  I doubt my $100 order paid for the cost of the catalogs they
sent me.

RW...

      Russ Wigglesworth              CI$:      72300,61
|~~|  UCSF Medical Center            Internet: Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu
|HB|\ Dept. of Radiology, Rm. C-324  Voice:    415-476-3668 / 474-8126 (H)
|__|/ San Francisco, CA 94143-0628


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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 91 08:47 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: STUFF

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 From: "Dr. John" <JELJ at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
 Subject:      Mashing & chilling
 
 Your arrogance makes responding in kind irresistable.
 
 >Jack Schmidling, in #764, in your second "Stuff" posting, 
 you claim that if the boiling of the liquid under the false 
 bottom in a direct-fired mash tun could be controlled, then 
 you would be gaining the benefits of a decoction mash.  Then 
 in #771 you talk about boiling puny little quart-sized 
 portions of the mash as though this is decoction mashing.
  
 If you took the trouble to understand the article instead of 
 looking for something to flame, you would note that the 
 number of quart-sized portions actually brought to a boil, 
 represent a significant proportion of the total mash volume.
 
 > Jack, you appear to be confused as to just what decoction 
 mashing is.  May I suggest that you pick up a copy of 
 Noonan's book and read it, or re-read it if you already have 
 it.
 
 Again, if you took the trouble to read the article, you 
 would note that I even quote from Noonan in it and many 
 other articles I have written.
 
 >In fact, the first one (boiling the liquid under the false 
 bottom) would only result in deactivating the enzymes.
 
 I would be most interested in knowing just what the 
 difference is in wort boiled under and within the mash and 
 that boiled separately.
 
 >  I'd be interested in hearing what the source of your 
 information on decoction mashing is.
 
 I used your favorite reference and added a little common 
 sense and came up with a much simpler method that seems to 
 do pretty much the same thing.  If you find that beyond your 
 own abilities or inclinations, that is your problem.
 
 From: martin at daw_302.hf.intel.com (martin wilde)
 Subject: Brewing Techniques
 
 > - Recycle the extract from the sparge a couple of times 
 (2-3 quarts). This helps in extracting the extract.
 
 This has the "ear feel" of a momily.
 
 Just how does recycling, highly saturated wort, improve 
 extraction?
 
 The intuitive purpose of recycling the initial runoff is to 
 keep the cloudy stuff out of the wort.
 
 > - After collecting the extract, get it boiling as soon as 
 possible  when using the step mash or decotation mash 
 methods.
 
 This one has possibilities of being true, I just don't 
 happen to know what they are.  I have often contemplated 
 putting off the boil till the next day.  What is the 
 problem? ... particularly in the case of decoction, where 
 the wort would be pretty well sterlilzed/pasturized.
 
 From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
 Subject: Boil-over
 
 >Boil over is caused by the formation of a viscous film of 
 protein on the surface of the soon-to-boil wort..... To 
 prevent boil-over, I skim the creamy head of protein that 
 forms in the pre-boil stage several times.  Haven't had 
 boil-over in years.  Boil-over usually doesn't occur after 
 that initial 'steam-break'.
 
 I recently had a great debate on the true meaning of the 
 aphorism, "A watched pot never boils", I lost by general 
 concensus but.....
 
 The most obvious reason for the boil over is that the liquid 
 is too hot.  
 
 If one simply turns the flame down when nearing the boil 
 point, a most amazing thing happens.....
 
 I too, skim the foam but given enough heat, nothing will 
 stop a boil over.
 
 js
 

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Date: Friday, 6 December 1991 2:19pm ET
From: joshua.grosse at amail.amdahl.com
Subject: Sparging discussions


In HBD 775, Jack Schmidling commented on my too-small lautering tun problems:

>>A 4 gallon mash didn't all fit in the lauter-tun at the same time!  I ended
>>up taking a lot of run-off out right away in order to stop leakage from
>>between the two buckets!  Miller recommended a 5-minute rest for settling; I
>>couldn't.
>>
>>This made the sparging get a little more complicated.

>This also made it not-sparging and explains all the problems you ended up
>with.  The mash must be allowed to settle or you can not establish a filter
>bed and will only get what you got.

It did settle, but only after I'd drawn off a gallon or two, which was then
recirculated.

>Fix those leaks.

That would take larger buckets!

And, C.R. Saikley writes:

>Another option is to have your supplier crack your grain. A decent
>homebrew shop will have a two roller mill, which should give you a
>much better crush than a Corona can. It usually costs no more than
>4-5 cents/pound extra to get your grain cracked, and some suppliers
>will do it free. Cracked grain doesn't keep well, so you'll want to
>brew ASAP after milling. If you live in an area where you must mail
>order your grain, having it pre cracked is not a good idea.

Interesting.  I've no easy access to a homebrew shop that has a mill.
As I live in an area with homebrew stores that don't offer milling
service.   Andy (ak35+ at andrew.cmu.edu) recommends mail-order precrush.

>I've never had much luck with pH papers either. ...

Spencer Thomas (spencer.w.thomas at med.umich.edu) recommends obtaining pH  papers
at a photographic supply store.

>>The electric boiler never got a really good high ruckus boil.
>
>The advantages of a good rolling boil are several. This topic is thoroughly
>covered in many places, so I won't go into that here. Suffice to say
>that a strong boil is highly desirable.

It does roll, however, and I stirred frequently, and Irish Moss really helped
the hot break.

>Fear not, for with a little experience, things will flow much more smoothly
>and your results will likely improve.

Thanks, C.R.

In HBD 776, Kurt Swanson asked:

>I've always wondered why underletting is necessary in sparging...  I've always
>done it, but never knew why...  Miller doesn't say why, just that it should be
>done...  Any ideas?

Both Miller and Papazian recommend foundation water in order to avoid clogging
your lauter tun strainer.  If the mash is placed there with air under the
strainer, its more likely to cause stuck runoff.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Grosse                                jdg00 at amail.amdahl.com
Amdahl Corp.                               313-358-4440
Southfield, Michigan

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Date:    Fri, 6 Dec 1991 13:51:21 EST
From: sdrc!CVG!"CAE387::GETHOMAS" at uunet.UU.NET (Tim Thomas ext. 2124)
Subject:  Homebrew post #775 Regarding Bru-Heaters

Swindon Mentions Bru-Heat taking 3 hours to boli 5 gallons and
I just thought you may want to try and use hot water from your hot water tap to 
start when using the bru-heater. This will reduce time the time/to heat. I can 
get may 135 degree water to 152 degrees within 15 minutes. I wasn't sure if you 
had a 110 volt version or the 220 volt version of the brew heater as I do. I 
also have two heaters so I have sparge water warming to 170 while I am making 
the wort.
Good luck,
Tim Thomas


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Date:    Fri, 06 Dec 91 15:50:03 EST
From: Jim White <JWHITE at maine.maine.edu>
Subject: Family discord !

A few nights ago I was roasting some pale grain malt, in preparation for
another batch. The wonderful odor of the roasting barley
was beginning to permeate the kitchen when my 14 yr old son dashed into
the kitchen and began opening windows. As he proceeded with the window
opening, he was making subtle comments about my activity, such as...

"That's really gross, Dad !"
"Can't you do that in the basement?"

A while later, my wife returned from walking our dog, and
immediately commented about the 'vile' odor.

Needless to say, I sensed a pattern. It also brought to mind how much
the family also dislikes the smell of boiling hops. During the summer I
can open the house to the environs, but during the winter we struggle
to maintain a dramatic temperature differential betwixt the inside and
outside, so opening windows is not always prudent. This, of course,
exacerabates family disunity as the pungent hop odor is trapped within.


Now, I happen to like the smells of roasting barley, boiling hops, and
fermenting beer. However, I stand alone against a united family in this
respect. Anyone else have this problem?

I have been toying w/the idea of installing a cheap stove, and sink in the
basement so I cab brew sans harrassment. Just another home brewing expense
that I, currently, find difficult to justify.

- --------
JS

Please, please, please don't invent, and start hawking your new 'Easy Brewing
Odor Containment Field '.

Jim White

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Date: 6 Dec 91 13:13:37 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Edmund Scientific

Subject:  Edmund Scientific                     Time:1:08 PM     Date:12/6/91
Does anyone out there have an address or phone number for Edmund Scientific? 
E-mail to me if you can.  Thanks in advance.

RW...

      Russ Wigglesworth              CI$:      72300,61
|~~|  UCSF Medical Center            Internet: Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu
|HB|\ Dept. of Radiology, Rm. C-324  Voice:    415-476-3668 / 474-8126 (H)
|__|/ San Francisco, CA 94143-0628


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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 91 16:27:33 CST
From: ingr!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Soda keg types

    I have a question concerning soda kegs.  Which type is considered to be
the "best", ball or pin lock?  If I remember correctly, Coke uses pin-lock and
Pepsi uses ball-lock.  Perhaps they are equal?  Are parts more readily
available for one than the other?  Thanks!

- --
Guy D. McConnell                   
"All I need is a pint a day..."



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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 91 18:41:48 CST
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)

Subject: Availability of Legal Kegs (George Fix)

I checked with a few scrap metal outlets and have found they are awash in beer
kegs. One location was checked, and at least 25% of the kegs could with some 
effort on our part be rendered serviceable. The majority, on the other hand,  
were badly stained. While this is obviously not "corrosion", and theoretically  
can be removed, this is a task I will gladly leave to others. In any case,  
this looks like a viable option for cheap kegs.

Another possibility is a company called Sabco (formerly Save a Barrel). They
sell cleaned and tested kegs (half and full) for $20. Totally reconditioned 
kegs go for $35-50 depending on the keg type and fittings. They will sell one
keg at a time, and all keg prices are the same independent of the number of kegs
purchased. Call Bob Suber at 419-531-5347 if interested.

Incidently, Sabco uses the term "Hoff-Stevens keg" for what I normally call
"Golden Gate". These are the kegs with the wooden bungs in the side. They do
use the modern single prong (Sankey) tap. This is the one with the ss ring.
I believe they will also install the older double prong (Hoff-Stevens) tap
as a special order.

I personally went ahead and purchased the half kegs I have been using these
last few years as fermenters directly from Miller Brewing.  

The data on lost kegs in recent posts can be misleading. While some commercial
brewers do spend big $ on missing kegs, it is not because they are being 
converted into barbecue pits or homebrewing equipment. The vast majority are
lost due to trade conditions. It is not uncommon for kegs to be accidently 
sent to the wrong brewery. Most of these are scraped. One of the reasons
Millers went to rubber lined kegs is so they could be easily distinguished
from A-B and Coors. (The rubber also provides fantastic insulation). I have
been told their keg loss has plummeted since that switch.

I have also talked to several micros about the keg loss problem. Many have
been badly hurt by it. For example, Don Thompson, owner of the now defunct
Reinheitsbot Br. Co. of Plano,Tx., tells me that he lost over half his kegs
(all purchased new) because they were accidently sent to another brewery, and
then apparantly disappeared. Our newest micro ( Dallas Br. Co.) has used only
the old Golden Gate kegs with the Hoff-Steven fittings so this would not happen
to them.
   


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Date: 06 Dec 91 19:34:48 EST
From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Hubris/Nemesis

A few weeks ago, fellow Portlander Al Marshall reported on batches of bottled
beer lost to mold and suggested the Portland weather might be responsible. As I
recall, I poo-poo'd the notion, mentioning that I lived in the same clammy
neighborhood and had never had any such problems. Well, sic semper tyrannis, or
whatever. For reasons not much advanced over laziness, on November 6th I bottled
half a ten-gallon batch, saving the rest for a more convenient time. The other
night, as I set out to bottle the rest I discovered a layer of scum covering the
entire surface of the beer in the carboy. The beer smelled wonderful as it
glugged down the drain and I was deeply depressed as my partner (who was due
half the batch) walked off with an entire case of the good stuff. 

At any rate, let this be a lesson to me. The beer should have been bottled a
month ago and clearly sitting in the carboy in the basement left it vulnerable
to mold spores. It seemed obvious to me that bottling the beer--even if I could
have peeled away the mold--would have been an exercise in futility. The beer
might have ended up okay in the bottle, but it seemed more likely that mold
spores would have been carried over and I would have ended up with two cases of
moldy beer. Maybe not, but who wants to expend the effort on those odds?

Hmmph.

I'm going to be brewing an abbey-style ale next weekend with some Belgian yeast
I got today from WYeast (no, it's not yet on the market, but soon, very soon).
Any constructive suggestions (malts and hops?) would be appreciated. What do any
of you know about biere de garde? I've heard rumors of a particular yeast
strain; Dave Logsdon thinks the French breweries probably use a wine yeast,
especially given the very high gravities of the beers. Anyone know for sure, or
know how these beers differ from abbey beers?


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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 91 15:50:47 MST
From: Eric Mintz <ericm at bach>
Subject: Avoiding boilovers 

To add yet another way to avoid boilovers to the several that have
recently gone before:

I found a great way to avoid boilovers quite by accident.  I boil on two
burners on an electric stove (my brewkettle is short and fat so it fits
over two burners).  It takes quite a while for the boil to commence once
I crank up the temperature settings to maximum.  During this time,
between the "steam break" and the boil, a head forms on the surfice
(kind of a scary one -- looks like it could take off and boil over any
minute.  Then an ever so slight boil begins and it seems that the
resulting agitation causes the boilover head to drop.  The boil finally
gets strong and never spills over.

All that to say: if you keep the heat down on while initiating the boil,
it shouldn't boil over.

Oh yea, I forgot to mention this and it is germane to the above
recommendation: I don't cover the brew kettle until the roling boil
begins.  If I cover it beforehand, it boils over!

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Date:    Fri, 06 Dec 91 21:17:15 EST
From: Jim White <JWHITE at maine.maine.edu>
Subject: Grain Mill

> Fm: J.S.
> WARNING!!!  This could be construed as a COMMERCIAL...
>

Pardon me, but this WAS a commercial post. Do we really have to
put up with this?

>
> I built it out of surplus parts and a weekend's worth of
> labor.  There are enough parts left at the surplus house to
> make about 5 more.  If anyone is interested, I could
> build/sell them for about $200.
>

A Corona grain mill can be had for $40-$45. I have one and it works great.
If you can't make high quality brew with grains crushed with this inexpensive
mill, then you'd best blame the ingredients or your procedures.... cause
it isn't the mill's fault.

I believe the (above) poster could do we subscribers a service by posting his
design and parts list with sufficient detail that we may build one, and I
challenge him to do so. I believe this selfless act would be more inline
with the non-commercial intent  of this list.


Jim White

- ----
Here in Maine, we've got a great Wort chiller, and we call it December.

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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 91 17:19:16 est
From: Greg_Habel at DGC.ceo.dg.com
Subject: Forwarded: Trub Question. 

CEO comments:
From: Greg Habel:DGC
Date: ## 12/06/91 15:10 ##
 

From: Greg Habel
Date: ## 12/04/91 08:44 ##
What are the advantages of syphoning the wort off of the trub before 
fermentation?  I have brewed about 20 extract/partial mash five 
gallon batches over the last 3 years and never have syphoned the wort 
off the trub. I strain the cooled wort from the kettle into the 
primary to remove any remaining grains and hops. I have noticed 
sediment (trub?) before fermentation begins. If one does remove the 
trub, won't the O.G. be lower than with the trub suspended in the 
wort? When do you take your O.G.?  Before removal or after?
                                 Greg
_____________________________________________________________________
Ask not what CoBudMil brew can do for you but what you can do with 
homebrew.                     
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------




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Date:         Sun, 08 Dec 91 12:39:46 EST
From: "Dr. John" <JELJ at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Thanks Darryl

If any of you have yet to receive your Winter Zymurgy yet, you have a treat
in store.  Our own Darryl Richman has written another fine article, this time
on his trip to the AASS Brewery.  Thanks Darryl, too bad you don't write more
articles for that rag.
Ooogy wawa,
Dr. John

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Date: Sun, 8 Dec 91 13:31:23 EST
From: Paul Bigelow <bigelow at waterloo.hp.com>
Subject: Soda Pop

The topic of exploding pop bottles was well flogged on the digest
several months ago, but I humbly submit (OK, maybe not so humbly :-),
that my technique is the best I've found so far.

For soda pop makers the spectre of exploding bottles is always a 
paramount worry, since there is a very real danger of physical injury.
My family just finished off the last of a batch of cherry coke I made 
about three months ago, and I was able to relax throughout that period
with zero worries.

I looked at the ingredients for soda pop:
1. Carbonated water
2. Sugar (for sweetening)
3. Flavorings
In restaurant soda fountains, the latter two are combined as syrup,
and the carbonation is provided as bottled CO2. The homebrewer without
an expensive kegging setup, instead uses yeast and sugar to provide 
carbonation. The danger is that yeast, being rather stupid, can't tell
the difference between the sugar provided for carbonation, and the sugar
provided for sweetening.

The secret to zero worries is to keep the sweetening sugar out of reach
of the yeast, until just before serving. In the case of my cherry coke
batch, I bought the syrup from my local homebrew store, and made up
just the carbonated water. Back when I could still get Hires root-beer
extract, I added the flavoring at bottling time, but not the extra sugar.

My recipe for carbonated water is simple:
5 U.S. gallons of water
1.5 cups sugar
1 teaspoon dry bread yeast (rehydrated)
I fill each bottle 2/3 full, screw on the top, and leave for one or two 
weeks. Each weekend I measure and add the syrup to a few bottles, top
them off with water and stick them in the fridge. This is a very quick 
operation. I had experimented with adding dry sugar, but this caused
an excessive amount of foaming.

I have to admit that I have not yet tried making up my own sugar
syrup without the preservatives that come in commercial syrup.
However based on what I read in cookbooks, a heavy sugar syrup
is unlikely to grow anything, and if I feel paranoid, I could always
keep my syrup in the fridge.

Paul Bigelow    bigelow at waterloo.hp.com


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Date: 08 Dec 91 17:01:15 EST
From: Rob Nelson <70206.1316 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Evil Incarnate

Greetings and felicitations of the season.
 
My brewing partner, Mr. Jack Hagens and I would like some input / advice on
a barley wine we are brewing.  According to all we have spoken to, this
batch may just reduce our petroleum dependance.  Our recipe used the first
runnings only from 15 lbs of Muton & Fison British Pale Malt and 10 lbs of
Marris Otter British Pale malt plus a lb of Marris Otter crystal thrown in
for good measure.  Jack mashed the M&F in a stiff mash at 158 degrees single
infusion.  I step-mashed the other grains 122/140/153 degrees.  The combined
runnings were boiled for 4.5 hours with 1 oz hoppings every 30 minutes
(Goldings/Fuggles alternated).  An ounce of Goldings was added at the end of
the boil for a 15 minute simmer.
 
The resulting concoction had a starting gravity of (hang onto your seats
folks)  1.148!  That's right.  One point one four eight!  Comments from
other brewers, both amateur and professional ranged from "Oh my God!" to
"Marry me and have my children!"  Our questions concern yeast /
fermentation management and dry hopping.  Here is our seat of the pants
plan.
 
We pitched a Wyeast 1028 London Ale starter (1 quart) at high krausen.
Blow off began in 12 hours and subsided in 5 days.  As of today, (day 6)
we're still perking merrily at the rate of a bubble per second.  Temperature
of the fermentation is 65 degrees.  We've modified one of those orange
rubber carboy caps to accept a racking tube and airlock at the same time. We
melted the racking tube shut on both ends to prevent airborne contaminants.
We will wait until fermentation dies down to a bubble every 5 seconds, then
every time Jack walks by the carboy, he'll give a gentle swirl of the
sediment.  This is yeast phase one.  Some calculations have revealed that
our hopping rates may have been too low so here is phase two.
 
We plan to make a 2 quart starter of 1 cup DME, 1 oz Eroica pellets and
some yeast slurry from the Pike Place Brewery in Seattle Wa.  This yeast
has successfully taken a 1.085 wort down to 1.015 with the occasional CO2
rousing at their brewery.  (BTW, their "Old Bawdy" barley wine will be a
real winner this year).  We figure that the extra hops will add needed
bitterness and that the PP yeast should start things back up when the
London Ale begins to fade.
 
Phase three will involve another starter of similar hopping and gravity but
with liquid champagne yeast.  With luck, we hope to chew this down to 1.030
or so for a strength of 14% or so.
 
So, the questions:  Anybody out there ever tried something like this?  Will
hopping the starters help?  What is the max alcohol tolerance of champagne
yeast?  Does the light in the refrigerator really go out when you close the
door?  Have we lost our minds?
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Rob Nelson



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Date: Sun, 8 Dec 91 23:17:16 MST
From: dworkin at habitrail.Solbourne.COM (Dieter Muller)
Subject: off-flavoured mead, the continuing saga

I was at a revel last night, and the master of the house provided some
home-made wine for the company to enjoy.  I tried a spot of it, and it
had the exact same harsh tang as my mead.  Of course, I immediately
asked him how he'd made it.  It turns out that the only commonality
between how he made his wine and I made my mead was that we both used
champagne yeast.  He also pointed out that the harsh tang usually ages
out in a year or so.

Therefore, I think the next batch is *definitely* going to be made
with a milder wine yeast.  Anyone know what they use for Spatlese?

	Dworkin

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #777, 12/09/91
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