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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re:  Berghof and Huber (Joe Freeland)
  TO ALL THIS MAY CONCERN: ("KING.WNETS385")
  Wort Chillers (Mike Zentner)
  Re:  A Recipe for Homebrew (circa 1930) (Brew Free or Die!  24-Dec-1991 0935)
  Re: A Recipe for Homebrew (circa 1930) (Peter Karp)
  joining CAMRA (chuck)
  Gambrinus (Jay Hersh)
  Pub Fun (Martin A. Lodahl)
  bursting Wyeast (Jay Hersh)
  Al vs SS testing (Jay Hersh)
  Irish Moss & Head Retention (Jay Hersh)
  Jocky  Box, Boiling Sparge Water (Jack Schmidling)
  Precise Bottling/Automatic Bottle Fillers ("Tom Childers")
  pitching starters (Frank Tutzauer)
  Merry Christmas! (Kevin L. McBride)


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[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 08:07:55 -0600
From: j_freela at hwking.cca.cr.rockwell.com (Joe Freeland)
Subject: Re:  Berghof and Huber


Lance ... all I know is that within the last six or eight
months they reopened a microbrewery called Seibens under 
their own name.  Its now called Bergoff Brewery and Restaurant.
They have a mighty good porter ! None of the waitresses or
bartenders seemed to know much at all about the beers.
According to them they were serving me an "ale-lager type beer"
at one time.  I'm still not sure excactly what that one was.
I guess I did not know such a thing existed.  Anyway,
they also have a sampler deal where you can get one of each
in small (~4 oz) glasses for about $3-4.  It was quite the
place if you like the beer, and a Hooter's opened up just
down the street also...it just doesn't get any better than
this :-)

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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 14:25 GMT
From: "KING.WNETS385" <6790753%356_WEST_58TH_5TH_FL%NEW_YORK_NY%WNET_6790753 at mcimail.com>
Subject: TO ALL THIS MAY CONCERN:



     Date: 24-Dec-91      Time: 09:23 AM       Msg: EXT02474

TO ALL THIS MAY CONCERN:
           THE MAIL IS GOING TO BE PICK UP BY THE POST OFFICE AT 12:0
0 NOON



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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 09:32:02 -0500
From: zentner%ecn.purdue.edu at hplb.hpl.hp.com (Mike Zentner)
Subject: Wort Chillers


>In Homebrew digest # 784, Kenney Baughman writes:
>
>>The other thing to remember is to keep the water housing of the 
>>chiller as small as possible.  Heat exchangers are more efficient the 
>>more the coolant turns over.
>
>In more scientific terms, you get better heat exchange when the coolant
>flow is turbulent. This means the "reynolds number" is much larger
>than, say, 10000. It would be possible to estimate the reynolds number
>for a wort chiller of given dimension if we knew the pressure drop
>between inlet and outlet. Since plumbing water pressure tends to be a
>function of position ;-), it is hard to say what the correct dimensions
>should be. Here in Texas (near Dallas), my water pressure is a hell of
>a lot more than it was in Warrenville, IL, near Chicago.

Right, but there's a little more to consider.  If you have a very small
coolant flow area per wort flow area, keep in mind that the increased
efficiency will cause the coolant to very quickly rise to the 
temperature of the wort, not vice versa.  Therefore, in order to get
the wort temperature down, you'll really have to be cranking the 
coolant throughput.  With my water pressure, it is very unlikely I'd
be able to achieve the desired degree of cooling unless the wort flow
rate was throttled down quite a bit too.  Put another way, if you're
planning on a specific coolant area per unit area of wort flow, there
is an optimal length of tubing to use, beyond which no additional
temperature drop will be gained.  Make sure that with your chosen
flow "areas" that the length of tubing along with water flow rates
approximately makes sense to get the degree of cooling you want.
Also, keep in mind that regardless of what degree of turbulence you
have in the coolant side, most homebrewers will not have turbulent
flow in their wort, making this the limiting transfer rate.  For
example, if I use 1" vs 3/8" tubing for the wort, and the flow is
laminar, it will take a lot "longer" for the heat to leave the center
streamlines in the larger diameter case, requiring a longer tube.

Mike Zentner   zentner at ecn.purdue.edu

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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 06:40:42 PST
From: Brew Free or Die! 24-Dec-1991 0935 <hall at buffa.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Re:  A Recipe for Homebrew (circa 1930)

In HBD #788, Bruce Hill favored us with a home brew recipe from the 1930s.
He stated that it was traditional to make home-made beer for festive occasions.
Methinks that in the early thirties, tomorrow would have been considered
occasion enough.   8^)

I think I can help with some of your questions, Bruce.  I too was given some
old beer recipes, with a bit more explanations given.

>Comments:  That last sentence sums up the attitude of the author -- "relax,
>don't worry".  Any ideas why it is recommended to "sweeten the crock" with
>a baking soda solution?  The tester (hydrometer) "B" and "W" graduations,
>what do they mean?  Why not put the crock on the floor?
>What is a Filter Float?  Bottle Caps with cork seals -- definitely ancient.  

I think the point of the baking soda to 'sweeten the crock' is simply to remove
any off smells that may have developed in an unused crock.  Being somewhat
porous, if the crock wasn't previously cleaned well, or simply sat unused, it
may have gotten a kind of punky smell.  The universal cure for this seems to
be old Arm and Hammer, you know, a box in the refrigerator and all that.

The "B" graduation on the tester means bottle, as in "time to".  Back in the
daring and adventurous 'old days', Grandpa didn't ferment beer out completely
and then add a measured amount of priming sugar.  He let the beer ferment until
there was just the right amount of fermentation left, that is, the tester said
'bottle' and he bottled and he *liked* it.  None of this fancy schmancy Balling
or Plato or S.G. or fiddledeedee.

The "W"?  You got me.  "Wasted".  "Whoops".  "Where've You Been?"

The crock not on the floor?  Need some elevation, to facilitate siphoning later.

My old homebrew directions describe something that has got to be your Filter
Float.  Take a board and cut out a circle slightly narrower than the opening
of the crock.  Drill a hole in the middle large enough to fit a siphon hose
into.  Pound four nails into the board near the outside edge, equally spaced
around the circumference, such that the points of the nails extend about an
inch and a half beyond the bottom.  Place the siphon hose into the hole in
the center, with the hose extending slightly beyond the bottom of the board,
and float this device on top of the beer.  It will allow siphoning of the beer
near the top, away from the sludge at the bottom, and the nails will prevent
the board from 'bottoming out' and picking up the sludge.  Voila!

Happy Holidays fellow brewers, and good brewing in '92!

 -Dan

- --
 Dan Hall   Digital Equipment Corporation   MKO1-2/H10   Merrimack, NH   03054
 hall at buffa.enet.dec.com		        ....!decwrl!buffa.dec.com!hall
  
  "Persons intoxicated with wine pass out lying on their faces, while those
          drunk with beer invariably lie on their backs" --Aristotle

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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 10:00:47 EST
From: Peter Karp <karp at cs.columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: A Recipe for Homebrew (circa 1930)


Sounds like a nice light brew. Did Fleischmann make a brewers yeast or
was it their off-the-shelf bakers yeast.

The baking soda is used to neutralize the acidity of the Purex,
which I think was and still is a chlorine bleach. Rinsing with the
baking soda should sweeten any residual sourness left by sterilizing with
bleach.
Peter

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Date: Tue Dec 24 10:09:12 1991
From: synchro!chuck at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: joining CAMRA

I should have included CAMRA's address in my previous posting.
To join, send your name, address, and 14 pounds for overseas membership.

The Membership Secretary
CAMRA Ltd.
34 Alma Rd
St Albans, Herts, AL1 3BW

phone: (0727) 867201

- -----
Chuck Cox
SynchroSystems
chuck at synchro.com


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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 11:53:47 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Gambrinus


>I've heard/read several proported explanations about who this, possibly
>mythical, person was.   The stories say King Gambrinus was one of:
>	1) a real {English, Dutch} king
>	2) a mythical {English, Dutch} king
>	3) a corruption of a Dutch brewer's name (Jan Primus)
>	4) a distant relative of Charlie Papazian ;-)
>
>Does anyone have a better/truer story?  Who was this guy?!?


Having just returned recently from that lovely little brewing town, Plzen
in Czechoslovakia I can tell you a little more about Gambrinus.
There is a brewery named Gambrinus in Plzen. Seems he was a king.
He was one of the kings of Bohemia, the western (non-slovak) half of
Czechoslovakia. This region has always been pretty closely tied to Bavaria 
in it's brewing traditions. I don't know a lot of specifics about the king,
but him and King Wencislaus (sp??) also of Bohemia, were big favrotes among 
the brewers in the area. I believe one of them was responsible for the laws
that made it a crime punishable by death to export rhizomes (hop rootings)
of the fabled Saaz (named for the Tzatek region of Bohemia, just north of
Plzen) hops.


good King JaH :-)



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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 8:49:16 PST
From: Martin A. Lodahl <malodah%pbmoss%PacBell.COM at hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Pub Fun

In HOMEBREW Digest #788, Jeff Frane took me on the proverbial trip
down memory lane:

>Then, too, the Daily Telegraph had a filler, titled "Beer glass plea": "Serving
>beer in shatter-proof glasses, which disintegrate into harmless cubes when
>broken, would prevent many of the disfiguring injuries suffered in pub brawls,
>claims an article published today in the British Medical Journal."
>
>Sounds like a fun place to drink.

Back in '82 I found myself in London, and repaired forthwith to the
nearest pub for a pint.  There was a fellow holding forth in there,
and from his rant I took him to be a Scottish separatist, but the
patrons largely ignored him until he leapt up on a table and
announced to the company at large, "the Queen _DIDDLES_!"  It was as
if the place had suddenly been dropped in a blender:  furniture and
glassware flew, the barkeep leapt over the bar to join the
battle, the barmaid slipped through a door I hadn't previously
noticed behind the bar.  They'd done this before!  I, chickenshit,
finished my bitter and fled ...

= Martin A. Lodahl   			Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 11:55:49 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: bursting Wyeast



Hmmm, I never trusted just slapping the package.
I used to fell around to make sure I knew where the inner package
was then press down really hard with thumb or fore-fingers
until I felt it pop. I never burst a package that way.

These days I have a few favorite liquid cultures in fridge storage
so I haven't had to burst a package lately, perhaps they make them wimpier
now...

 - JaH


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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 12:04:05 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Al vs SS testing


One of the more ingenious testing means I saw exploited the density difference
in these two metals. I think you'll need a CRC handbook to find the densities,
but if you want to make sure the pot you have is indeed SS you can submerge it
in water, check the displacement (probably best to use metric).
Then weigh it, and divide the weight by the volume to get the density.

If I recall the old discussion, the densities of Al and SS are signifiantly 
different that it should be pretty apparent if you've got the wrong one.
Keep you're receipts :-)....

JaH


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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 13:02:24 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Irish Moss & Head Retention



Hmmm I have been using Irish Moss for years with no resulting loss
in head retention. I also use a yeast nutrient. The yeast nutrient is
made from dead yeast which is dried and ground up. This works under the
theory that the best (most complete)  source of trace nutrients the yeast 
need to maintain proper cell growth and maintenance is already in other yeast..
While some may claim this is an evil alien additive, I think since it is just 
from yeast to begin with it's OK. This may counteract any negative effects
from Irish Moss, though I have been using Irish Moss longer than I've used
the yeast nutrient, and don't recall any negative eefects way back then...

JaH



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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 10:16 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Jocky  Box, Boiling Sparge Water

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 From: Greg Roody - <roody at necsc.enet.dec.com>
 Subject: Jockey Boxes (re: Dan Graham)
 
 >I assume you want the fridge to chill the beer and not lager it.
 
 >If that's the case, you can buy or build a "jockey box".  This is a large
 cooler with stainless steel or copper cooling coils/plates in it which you
 fill with ice.
 
 There is a much simpler device available.  Come to think of it, it might
 be what's in the jocky box.  It's a flat aluminum plate about 8x12x1 with
 a serpentine path inside and in/out hose fittings.  You put it in a dishpan 
 full of ice and hook the beer to it.  It is incredibly efficient.  When you 
 tap a beer, the ice looks like it is running down a drain.  It is even 
 convenient for a couple of glasses.  One tray of cubes will chill several.
 
 BTW, it also makes a great wort chiller but like everything else made of 
 aluminum, I consigned mine to the recycle bin.  But for those who don't mind 
 losing a few brain cells, I highly recommend it.
 
 
 BTW... btw, in case it isn't obvious, wort chillers make great beer coolers 
 but because of their capacity, only useful for parties.
 
 
               .........SPARGE WATER MOMILY.....
 
 The experts all agree that the temperature of sparge water should be around 
 170 degs F for maximal extraction.  I think, however, that we have a problem 
 extrapolating a commercial process to home brewing and if a homebrewer uses 
 water at 170F, he will not achieve the same results.
 
 First of all, most commercial brewers sparge with a shower-like sprayer that 
 impinges directly on the malt.  In the typical homebrew setup, we are 
 dribbling the water on a layer of water (1" typically) above the mash.  This 
 is done to avoid disturbing the filter bed with a stream of water.  I take 
 this one step further and place a small bowl in the mash to receive the water 
 and distribute it evenly.
 
 We are, in effect, dribbling water into a three gallon bucket of water and 
 the temperature profile thus created is far from what is desired for 
 efficient sparging if we start with water at 170F.
 
 On my last batch, I sparged with boiling water (as usual) but this time, I 
 took careful temperature measurements and here are the results.
 
 Sparge water:                        210
 Center of bowl:                      155
 Surface, midway to edge:             140
 Surface at edge:                     139
 Edge, 2" below surface:              135
 Wort outflow:                        135
 
 The level is maintained to assure that the bowl top is below the water 
 surface.  The edge is the edge of the mash kettle.
 
 Nowhere does the water temp even approach the desired 170F.  Clearly, using 
 boiling water to sparge in this fashion is not only NOT going to cause any 
 problems but it is NOT even hot enough, if 170F is what is desired.
 
 Solving this problem presents a real challenge to the homebrewer.  In my 
 case, I have 7 gallons of water boiling that is gravity fed to the mash tun 
 and it is a terribly convenient way of sparging.  The thought of coming up 
 with enough pressure (at the "proper" temp) to drive a spray, gives me a 
 headache.
 
 The good news is that the beer tastes great anyway and perhaps the only 
 effect is using a little more malt per gallon to compensate for the less than 
 ideal efficiency.
 
 js

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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 11:26:23 PST
From: "Tom Childers" <TCHILDER at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Precise Bottling/Automatic Bottle Fillers


                                  "If you're not part of the solution, you're
                                   part of the precipitate"


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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1991 16:27 EST
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: pitching starters

     I've been using Wyeast for the last 6 or 7 batches, and I've regularly
made a starter.  Now that I've used liquid yeast for a while, I've got some
questions about pitching starters (not to be confused with starting pitchers--
that's another sport altogether!).  My questions are these.  Assuming you can
perfectly time your starter to coincide with your brewing:  (a) When should
you pitch (i.e., when in terms of how far along the starter is)? and (b) What
should you pitch?  Let's consider "when" first.  My references on this are
mixed.  Paul Farnsworth, in the yeast special image of zymurgy, says you
should pitch after the starter has become "opaque" and before the yeast
"begins to settle out" (p. 35).  The Wyeast package says to pitch after about
12 hours, at high kraeusen.  Finally, Miller (p. 94) says to let the starter
ferment completely out, pitching the slurry on the bottom.  I have tried all
three methods, but so many other variables were also changing that I'm not
sure which is best.  From a practical standpoint, I end up more toward the
Miller side, but for no reason other than I want to give the yeastie boys
plenty of time and have tended to err on the side of too much time.  So, what
is YOUR experience?
     Second question:  What should you pitch?  It seems to me that there are
two options:  pitching the entire starter, and decanting and pitching only the
slurry.  Miller decants and pitches slurry, since he lets his starter ferment
completely out.  Farnsworth doesn't say what he does, but I assume he pitches
the entire starter since there is no slurry.  Wyeast makes no recommendation
(at least not on their package).  I don't buy arguments about the starter
altering the flavor of your beer.  Afterall, it's only 2-4 cups of plain-
vanilla wort.  I don't see how it could alter the flavor much more than adding
2-4 cups of water.  On the other hand, it seems to me that there are millions
of yeasties still in suspension, so I figure why not put them into the wort
too.  Again, I've done it both ways and don't know which is better.  What do
YOU think?
     Now, if Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens used liquid yeast, you would get
starting pitchers pitching starters!

- --frank


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Date: Wed, 25 Dec 91 0:00:06 EST
From: Kevin L. McBride <klm at gozer.MV.COM>
Subject: Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas!

- -- 
Kevin

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #789, 12/25/91
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