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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  my bottle filling $.02 (Sean J. Caron)
  Re: Sparge temperature (Michael Zentner)
  In defense of the Beer Hunter... (Michael Zentner)
  Oxidation  of wort (Michael Mahler)
  beginner's questions (Rob Winters)
  Re: Oxidation and Crystal Malt (Jay Hersh)
  Scum Skimming (Carl West)
  Starter in the fermenter (b11!mspe5!guy)
  Re: Keep this crap to yourself (b11!mspe5!guy)
  Beer Hunter Tape(s). (Greg_Habel)
  Pubs near London (SHERRILL_PAUL)
  Old Yeast Starter ("John Cotterill")
  Some questions about mashing from a first-time masher (randy)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 91 09:11:38 EST
From: Sean J. Caron <CARONS at TBOSCH.dnet.ge.com>
Subject: my bottle filling $.02



i have the non-spring loaded bottling cane mentioned several times
in previous posts. i love the thing. As was mentioned by Paula Goldman,
tilting the bottle when starting the flow and topping off the bottle
by pressing the stopper on the neck of the bottle works just great.
i filled two cases of bottles in about 20 minutes, with little or no
splashing or bubbling (i had help from my wife, who was doing the 
capping, i must admit). 

for the price, i don't think you can beat it.

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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 91 10:03:15 -0500
From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Zentner)
Subject: Re: Sparge temperature


Al writes:
>Jack writes:
>>
>>First of all, most commercial brewers sparge with a shower-like sprayer that
>>impinges directly on the malt.
>
>I've wondered about this.  Intuatively, I figured that a shower-like sprayer
>would be the best way to evenly distribute the sparge water and minimize the

With regard to temperature, Jack indicated that the largest heat
losses were from the transfer from the pot to the bowl on top of his
grain bed.  When planning such a device for the home, keep in mind
that a fine spray has a much larger surface area per volume of water
than does a straight pour of water.  This allows very rapid heat loss
when the temperature difference of the water and the air is great.  On
an industrial scale, I suspect that the air temperature around the
spray is much higher than that of the home (due to the volume of the
spray) and such problems are not as important as at home.  At any rate,
fill a plant mister with boiling water and spray it at your face
sometime to convince yourself that the finer the spray, the more
cooling will take place between outlet and destination.

Mike Zentner   zentner at ecn.purdue.edu

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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 91 10:13:54 -0500
From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Zentner)
Subject: In defense of the Beer Hunter...


Lots of people write that the series was lacking practical information for
homebrewers.  Well, I don't think the series was ever aimed at brewers.  I'm
sure Discovery wouldn't even air a brewing series because of lack of audience.

I personally thought it was great.  To me, brewing is a lot more than conversion
sparging, etc...  I enjoy the product as well.  I like to see how other
people enjoy their beer.  I think the little historical ditties are
great information....for fun, not how-to knowledge.  I love the bit
about cooking with beer.  It's great to learn the customs associated
with the beverage, both old and new (that Anchor trip, for example).  I
realize some of you are mainly concerned with the science of the
process, but for others of us, that's only 50%.

Mike Zentner    zentner at ecn.purdue.edu

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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 91 11:03:39 EST
From: mm at lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Michael Mahler)
Subject: Oxidation  of wort



	Just curious.  I started my second batch of brew, this time
	an Octoberfest kit.

	In Papazzian's New Joys of Homebrewing, he says that you
	should oxinate the bijeebers outa the wort so the yeast has plenty
	of oxidation to munch on and here y'all are saying that 
	this is really bad.

	What I did was use a sterilized racking tube and mixed up the wort
	really well, whipping up the surface a bit (not too much).
	It was at about 80 degrees.  I also used the rack to add
	the cold water to the primary fermenter which already had the wort
	poured into it.  

	I did this with my first batch as well, and it tastes pretty damn good!

	So what's the pooop?


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Date:    Mon, 30 Dec 1991 11:13:35 EST
From: RWINTERS at LEDA.HQ.NASA.GOV (Rob Winters)
Subject: beginner's questions

I've made a couple of kits thus far. Since they behaved very differently,
I'd thought I'd solicit some opinions as to why.

The first kit was a fairly simple TrueBrew porter kit. It fermented wildly
for about 48 hours, and fermentation had stopped completely within about
4-5 days. I bottled it after a week. It came out pretty well, and was deemed
fairly drinkable by the masses.

The second kit was a TrueBrew "Maestro Series" India Pale Ale kit. It
included such components as crystal malt, boiling hops and dry hops, and
oak chips for the ferment. The sg of the wort was supposed to get to 
1.054-1.056, but mine only made it to 1.049. I didn't have anything handy
with which to adjust it upwards. It seemed to ferment well, and the 
fermentation gradually slowed until it was very slow after about 8 days.
However, it never seemed to stop. The airlock bubbling interval slowed
from every second (day 1) to every 45 seconds or so (day 6), and never got 
any slower. I finally gave up and bottled it after 13 days, even though
the airlock was still ticking over like a darkroom timer every 45 seconds.
The sg was still up at 1.017, even though the kit said it would be down
to 1.012 after seven to ten days. It seemed to have leveled out at that mark.
After a week in the bottle, I haven't had any explosions, but I'm wondering
if I've got 2 cases of Canada Dry(tm) India Pale Ale on my hands. I'm going
to chill one and find out, but on to the questions:

Why d'yer think my wort didn't make it to the sg that the kit predicted?
Too low a temp or not enough time processing the crystal malt, perhaps?
Do these kits (or specific ingredients) have a shelf life that I should be
concerned with?

Why did this batch not seem to want to ferment out? Temperature? The air
temp was 72degF, if my heat pump is working. Not enough oxygen at the start?
Should I have ignored the kit instructions and waited for zero acitvity?

Why did my ending sg come out above the kit's prediction? Will too high a 
temp processing the crystal malt result in unfermentable sugars? Was it 
just plain not done yet?

I also have questions about storage and shelf life. How should homebrew be
stored? Is the basement floor good enough, or should it be refrigerated?
I still have porter that has been basement floored for about a year. Is it
good, or is it time to wash the bottles for another batch? I didn't see
any mention of these issues in Papazian's book or the kits' directions.

There seems to be some debate going on about head space at the 
moment. I realize that excessive head space will mean excessive oxygen
which will tend to spoil the brew. Won't insufficient head space result in
broken bottles, because there's nothing to compress as the beer primes?

Thanks for any help!

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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 91 14:35:52 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Oxidation and Crystal Malt


Thom, 

> Like many other beginning-to-intermediate brewers, I steep my
>crystal malt at 170F for half an hour, and then pour this through a strainer
>into the brew kettle.

One of the things that happens during boiling is that it drives off dissolved
oxygen. I don't think that you will get oxidation reactions to a significant 
degree from pouring a partial mash through a strainer. Also since this is only 
a portion of the wort any effect will be diluted. 

I'd relax on this one,

	JaH

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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 91 14:40:41 EST
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Scum Skimming

The best tool I've found for skimming during the boil is a conventional strainer.
Slotted spoons have too much impervious surface area so that the liquid flowing 
off carries the scum away as well. 

Someday I'll get around to making a skimming `paddle' out of some screening (of nylon 
or some appropriate metal) that fits the curve of my kettle. 

Carl 

WISL,BM.

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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 91 11:00:55 CST
From: ingr!b11!mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Starter in the fermenter

In Digest #791, Dean Cookson <cookson at mbunix.mitre.org> writes:
> Subject: Re: Pitching Starters
>
> ...But, I've been wondering lately.  Is there
> a good reason why I shouldn't make my starter right in my fermenter, and
> then just pitch my wort on top of it, instead of the other way around?

    Someone else mentioned this very thing a few weeks ago in the Digest.  It 
was, to me, one of those things that makes you wonder why you didn't think of
it yourself.  My brew partner and I tried this on our last batch (a Canadian 
Ale) and it worked very well.  It makes a great deal of sense to me and I will
definitely do it again.

- -- 
Guy D. McConnell                   
"All I need is a pint a day..."


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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 91 11:10:08 CST
From: ingr!b11!mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Keep this crap to yourself

In Digest #790, Donald Oconnor <oconnor at chemistry.UCSC.EDU> writes:

> Earlier this week I posted the info about a new brewers supply in Austin.
> I mentioned the owners name is Lynne O'Connor and at the end stated "She's
> a very nice lady and promised to sleep with me if I posted this."  On
> Christmas Eve I received an email from Dr. John in New York who took
> "extreme umbrage" at this comment, suggested that I "keep this crap to
> myself" and that he/she would "prefer 50 Jack Schmidling Video ads to
> this kind of crap."  I'm sorry if I offended anyone else in a similar
> manner but let me just offer in my defense that out here in the wild west,
> men generally do sleep with their wives on a regular basis.  Perhaps this
> seems radical or anachronistic to high falutin' city slickers from the
> land of THE Donald, but it goes on without much comment out here in the wilds.

    I saw your original posting and found it quite humorous.  I felt pretty 
sure that the lady in question was your wife.  I wish her well in her business
endeavor.  Will she do mailorders at all?  If so, I will write/phone for a
catalog.  It seems to me that the humor level in the Digest has fallen quite
a bit in the past several weeks (months?).  Perhaps it's just holiday stress
and/or not enough homebrew.  I offer this humble suggestion; If you take offense
to something written in the Digest, take several homebrews and then re-read it.
The humor might just emerge.  Anyway, Hoppy New Beer!

- --
Guy D. McConnell                   
"All I need is a pint a day..."


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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 91 11:33:00 est
From: Greg_Habel at DGC.ceo.dg.com
Subject: Beer Hunter Tape(s).


Is there anyone in HBD land that would be willing to send me a copy 
of the Beer Hunter episodes?  Unfortunately I do not get the 
Discovery Channel on my cable system and was unable to tape it.  I 
would be more than happy to pay for the cost of the blank tape and 
any postage.  Thanks HBDers!  Greg.




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Date: 30 Dec 91 13:46:00 -0800
From: SHERRILL_PAUL at Tandem.COM
Subject: Pubs near London

Hi Folks,

   I'll be travelling to London on work related business in February.
Any places I must see as far as beer goes?

I'll probably only be able to travel in close proximity to London.

Send suggestions directly to me:  sherrill_paul at tandem.com

thanks  paul

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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 91 14:13:51 PST
From: "John Cotterill" <johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com>
Subject: Old Yeast Starter
Full-Name: "John Cotterill"

About a week and a half ago, I made up a yeast starter from wort and the 
contents of a Wyeast liquid yeast package.  The fermentation of the starter
finished 2-3 days later.  It has now been over 10 days (total from pitching)
and I still have not been able to find the time to start my brew.  I doubt
if I will be able to do it before this weekend.  How long can starters sit
around?  I will put the starter in the refrig. tonight (its been in the kitchen
at about 65 deg F).  Should I make a new one for this weekend?
Thanks in advance for the advice...
John.
johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com

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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 91 14:56:27 EST
From: randy at rdr.com
Subject: Some questions about mashing from a first-time masher


I'm what I would consider an intermediate brewer (about 10-12 batches  
of mostly-extract brews, a few of which have been quite good).  I'm  
setting up to attempt my first full-mash brew in a week or so, and  
I've found a lot of conflicting information in my sources.  Maybe  
someone here can help me out.

The two books I'm referring to are Papizan's "Complete Joy of  
Homebrewing" and Dave Line's "Brewing Beers Like the Ones You Buy".   
A few questions:

1) In Line's book, his procedure for a step mash suggests doing the  
"protein rest" or first stage at 55C (131F), but Papaizan suggests  
50C (122F).  Who's right? Does it really matter?

2) The recipe I'm using from Line's book (for a light pilsner, a  
Heinekin clone), he calls for 5.5 lbs of "lager malt".  What kind of  
malt is this? 2-row or 6-row?  Unmodified, modified, or highly  
modified?

3) In Papaizan's book, he says that 2-row barley has a LOWER enzyme  
content than 6-row.  But in my catalogue for the Home Brewery, they  
tell me that 2-row barley has HIGHER enzyme content than 6-row.   
Line's book didn't mention it.  What's the deal?

4) In the same recipe in Line's book, he calls for 14oz. of "flaked  
rice".  My local home brew shop has rice extract solids.  How much of  
this extract would correspond to 14oz of flaked rice?  (I understand  
that the rice solids go into the boil while the flaked rice goes into  
the mash).  How about using regular white rice or rice grits?

5) For the second stage of the mash (the actual starch conversion),  
I've heard of times anywhere from 15 minutes to 1.5 hours.  I  
understand that this can change depending on what kind of beer you  
make and what temperature you mash at, but what's a good rule of  
thumb?  What's the usefulness of using tincture of iodine to test for  
starch conversion?

I'm really not trying to be anal about this (there's that word  
again), but there's a lot of information to process and I never seem  
to hear the same story twice.

Please send me information by e-mail to this address  
(randy%rdr.com at uu.psi.com) or if that doesn't work try randy at id.com.

Thanks!

Randy

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #792, 12/31/91
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