HOMEBREW Digest #800 Mon 13 January 1992

Digest #799 Digest #801

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  More on Redistribution (rdg)
  Re: mashing/boiling vessels (Mike Sharp)
  Word rappin' (BAUGHMANKR)
  *Real* Rad Equipment 8-) (wbt)
  chicago brewpubs, bars, stores (semi-long) (Tony Babinec)
  Water Treatments (Bob Jones)
  Long Tall Lauter Tun (GEOFF REEVES)
  Surface oxygen & fermentation (GEOFF REEVES)
  WHAT THE HELLES (Charlie Papazian/Boulder)
  Re: Radioactive isotopes used in breweries (John Dilley)
  glass, crystal, toasted (Bob Fozard)
  Radioactive isotopes and breweries (Michael L. Hall)
  Homebrew Digest #799 (January 10, 1992) (Michael Mahler)
  Weisse vs. Weizen (korz)
  storytime (fermenter blowups) (Arthur Delano)
  Sour Mash Answers (Bob Jones)
  New Brewer (kbrunell)
  Historical Homebrew  ( no. 2) (Robb Holmes)
  copper (chip upsal)
  Homebrew Malt Qualities (joshua.grosse)
  How to put caffeine and anise in beer? (Jacob Galley)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Jan 92 16:32:46 MST From: rdg at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Subject: More on Redistribution Thanks to all who offered to set up redistribution points to reduce the network traffic caused by the digest. I've saved all your letters and will contact you if and when I decide that it's really necessary. Rob Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 92 12:47 CET From: "R.P.M. Tebarts (DBA-CRI)" <CRIPRT at RULMVS.LEIDENUNIV.NL> Subject: re:camra A dutch organisation like CAMRA is PINT (promotion and information on traditional beers) which spells PINT in the dutch lanquage . Pint is also slang for a lager in the pub. the adress : PINT P.O. box 3757 1001 AN Amsterdam the Netherlands They public a magazine in the dutch lanquage 6 times a year. Dutch membership costs DFl. 30,- per year . A belgium organisation is De objectieve bierproevers P.O. box 32 2600 Berchem 5 Belgium. Botch organisations and CAMRA work together on european rules for brewers. They are all consumer organistions. I hope this information will help. Rob Tebarts mail : CRIPRT at RULMVS.LEIDENUNIV.NL Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 92 7:20:50 EST From: Mike Sharp <msharp at cs.ulowell.edu> Subject: Re: mashing/boiling vessels Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov> writes: > I tried your idea on a recirculating mash tun, al la R. Morris/Zymurgy. > I screwed around with it for about a year, and had BAD luck. The problem > most likely is with the mash tun geometry. Too tall a mash tun will cause > too much grain compaction therefore slowing the flow thereby burning or > overheating the liquid. I think you have the wrong picture. The mash tun is ~1.5' high with a diameter of 2'. I don't expect to use it at anything near its capacity. If anything I thought this would be a bit on the short side. The boiler is the tall skinny vessel. I couldn't see any reason why it couldn't be (& kegs are cheap too). FWIW, the boiler (made of two kegs welded one on top of the other) won't be used at capacity either. Since my targetted batch size will be about 15.5 gallons (the oak casks I use are 15gal) post boil, I wanted enough room for the initial wort (figuring a 4-6 hour boil -- traditional for lambics) as well as a little room left over for the inevitable attempt at boil over. > Also there is a problem with just how much heat > or energy you can get from household voltage. Yes, I'm somewhat concerned about this. I'm going to have to experiment. The area in which I brew has a 40A 220V line. I'll just keep adding more water heater elements to the boiler until I can get ~18-20gal to boil. I don't have any delusions about doing this quickly. Current plan is to wire the heaters to run at 110 so I don't go scorching everything during the boil. I'm not sure if I'll wind up running them at 110 or 220. Time will tell. > You can get much more energy from a burner of any sort. Quite true, however I believe my landlord would be quite upset when I ran this in my appartment. Not to mention there is the problem of not melting through the flooring and the in-flow/out-flow of air. I've worked out numerous burner designs, but having to run ducting through the apartment as well as the noise of a burner running full blast has lead me to scrap the idea. Then there is the general danger of a 200KBTU burner running in a 10x12 room... Trivia question for the physically capable: Hot water heater elements are sold with ratings like 9KW. Does anyone know how I'd go about figuring the BTU output (assuming that its running full blast for an hour)? I'm sure I could figure it out if I dug out Halliday&Resnick, but someone out there must know... ARF -- ??why?? > From: arf at gagme.chi.il.us (jack schmidling) > Subject: ADS > Subject: STUFF Jack! Get a clue! I've never seen such an utter waste of bandwidth. Please do a quick reality check and realize that these postings were made quite a while ago. I'd rather not read your tirades that time forgot. As far as using this as a tool to redeem yourself in the eyes of HBD and for besmirching those that opposed/offended you, it just makes you look like a fool. (said in a moderate, instructional, matter of fact voice, NOT a beligerant, ranting, attacking one). ARF -- his grain mill FWIW, I did like the review of your grain mill. sounds like an interesting unit. Did you make the supporting castings yourself or were they left-overs from something else? I've wound up going the route of welded plates due to casting costs. Did you wind up using stainless for the rollers or some form of tool steel? I've been thinking about a tool steel approach but I'm somewhat worried about someone trying to clean the unit (mine) by popping it in the dishwasher. Perhaps I just need a big sticker on the side that says 'Dont even think about getting this wet.' --Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1992 10:29 EDT From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU Subject: Word rappin' >(Kinny, is this more readable? This is using hard returns instead of word wrap. >I too have problems with some posts running off the edge, although I think it's >people with word wrap who go beyond column 80 that bug my machine, such as it >is.) Thanks, Lee. I had no problem reading your post. The first two lines above went right to column 79. With the quoting '>'s, they go to column 80, which completely fills my screen--a point of comparison for you guys. I've never had problems reading Lee's posts so evidently the problem isn't word wrap but, as he suggests, margin settings that extend past column 80. Thanks for all the helpful responses. I'm still working on a fix from my end. Anyone know the command to force carriage returns within specified margin settings on a VMS system running on a Dec VAX? Cheers ya'll, Kinney Baughman | Beer is my business and baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu | I'm late for work. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For all you guys into beer lappin'. There's a new rage now... word rappin'. Rap that terminal, tap them keys. But set those margins at 75 please! "Hey! Somebody get him outta here!" <Enter long cane from stage left...> My apologies to Bob Devine, head poet of this society. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 92 10:25:59 EST From: wbt at cbema.att.com Subject: *Real* Rad Equipment 8-) > From: Peter Karp <karp at cs.columbia.edu> > Subject: Radioactive isotopes used in breweries > > But also mentioned were breweries that apparently > used radioactive isotopes for measuring the level of beer in bottles. > Does anyone know how this method works? I've never seen these used for beer bottling, but the technique is probably to pass the bottle through a "gage." On one side of the bottle is a chunk of radioactive isotope as a radiation source; on the other side is a detector. The radiation is attenuated (i.e. partly blocked/absorbed) as it passes through the beer, so if the radiation level "dims" far enough you know there is beer between the source and detector; and thus that the bottle is full to the height of the detector. Similar methods are used for things like measuring the thickness of paper or coming off a mill. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Thacker AT&T Network Systems - Columbus cbema!wbt Quality Engineer Network Wireless Systems wbt at cbnews.att.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 92 10:25:13 CST From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec) Subject: chicago brewpubs, bars, stores (semi-long) Here are some Chicago area brewpubs and bars. The Goose Island Brewery is at 1800 N. Clybourn, which is north of North and west of Halsted. On tap are a Kolsch (the only one in America?), a Pilsner, and a Pale Ale (very good, with slight biscuit and diacetyl notes). You'll also find seasonals and specialties. Recently, they've had an IPA. There's ample parking nearby. You can also eat there, the food's pretty good. I'll plug it again: if you're in town on the first Thursday of the month, there's an informal homebrew get-together too! The Berghoff Brewery is on west Ontario past Orleans and the expressway ramp. Recently, they've featured a light (dort), a dark (American dark), Octoberfest, as well as several ales (amber ale, porter, stout). You can also get Berghoff beer at the Berghoff restaurant in The Loop. Go to the standup bar on ground level. The Weinkellar is in Berwyn, and therefore not accessible to downtown stayers without a car. Take the Eisenhower to Austin, exit and go south to Roosevelt Road, then go west on Roosevelt for a mile or two. It's on the south side of the street. Their own beers on tap include an amber ale, several wheat beers (filtered Weizen, hefe-Weizen, and Berliner Weiss), and I don't remember what else. Some of their specialty beers (Doppelbock, Octoberfest) have been very good. They also have hundreds of brands of beers for sale in the bar and an adjacent store. It's an interesting ethnic neighborhood bar. Tap and Growler is on Jackson, two blocks west of Halsted, in the old Greektown neighborhood. They get Chicago Stadium traffic (Da Bulls, Blackhawks) coming and going. The neighborhood is definitely "urban," so don't wander off too far in any direction. T&G got a bad reputation a few years ago for, shall I say, indifference to the quality of its beer, but appears to be making amends. On tap recently were an Irish ale and a stout. *Chicago-area homebrewers and beer aficianodos note*: the 1992 Chicago Beer Society membership meeting will be at Tap and Growler on Sunday, February 2, early afternoon. Sam's Liquors on North Avenue just west of Halsted has a great selection of U.S. and imported beers, not to mention wine, single malt scotch, etc. Stock up! Quencher's, at Fullerton and Western, has 15-20 taps and a couple hundred brands of beer in the cooler. Those of you on the coasts (especially Pacific) are used to this, but we're only just beginning to see the many-taps phenomenon here. An old German neighborhood, roughly at Lincoln and Damen, has a number of German bars, including Lashett's, Riese's, and Von Stuke's (I'm not sure about any of those spellings). You'll find multiple beers on tap at any of these, plus get a sense of what Chicago and dozens of other cities must have been like years ago. Chicago and area micro beers to look for include: Chicago Brewing Co.--Legacy Lager (won European Pilsner category at 1991 Gr. Am. Beer Fest), Legacy Red Ale, and seasonals (Heartland Weiss is the only one so far, and probably the best bottled American-made German Weizen I've tasted, with some of that "clove" character). Baderbrau, a dark-ish pilsner. Kalamazoo Brewery beers, including Bell's Beer, Bell's Amber, a good porter, a very good Third Coast Old Ale, and others. (Larry Bell does multiple homebrew-size mashes to fill his fermenter, and in the end bottles or kegs it!) Capital Brewery (Madison, Wisconsin) beers. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1992 08:37 PDT From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov> Subject: Water Treatments When making water treatments to try and match typical brewing styles, what water should one treat. This concern mostly is for grain brewers. I usually treat only the mash strike water, but then a sparge with twice as much untreated water. Is it adequate to only try and duplicate the mash environment or should we try and duplicate the water in sparge? Did anyone know of a common source for calcium chloride, like at the grocery store. Bob Jones Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 92 09:55:02 -0700 From: 105277 at essdp1.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES) Subject: Long Tall Lauter Tun > Having read about the A-B coffee can lautering system experiment > (I can`t remember whether it was here, Miller, or Papazian, oh well) > where they taped a bunch of coffee cans into a 4-5' column makes me > wonder about doing somthing of the sort myself. Anyone have any > insight on the benefits/drawbacks of a tall skinny lautering system? > > Carl > The problem I can see here is over-lautering of some grain and/or possible under-lautering of some of the rest. The ideal lautering system will wash all the grain with equal amounts of water so that the leaching of sugars is optimal everywhere. It would also have a filtering system that let all dissolved solids through and left all undissolved solids behind. Normally we use the grain itself for this which is why we require a 'sufficient' bed. If you have a good enough mesh screen to do the filtering then it would be better to have a short wide lauter tun along with some way to deliver water evenly distributed over the surface. I'm pretty unhappy with my current lauter tun (two plastic food buckets) so I'm thinking about building a new one. Geoff Reeves Atomic City Ales Los Alamos NM Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 92 10:01:52 -0700 From: 105277 at essdp1.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES) Subject: Surface oxygen & fermentation > > The reasoning seems sound, and it is true that oxygen-deficient wort > will cause your yeast to have trouble reproducing, but 2 gallons of > air sitting on top of your 5 gallons of wort are not going to enter > the wort unless you shake. I think the rate that the air will dissolve > into the wort, if it simply sits quietly, is very slow and aeration > during the filling of the carboy would be several orders of magnitude > more than aeration from the air sitting quietly. Comments? > Al. > My guess is that the volume of air above the fermenting brew is less important than the surface area. I would agree that little new oxygen would enter the wort once it starts to ferment but the much of the yeast could still have contact with air at the surface (remember the little snorkelers?). This is especially true as the beer starts to circulate due to bubbles forming below. Since a CO_2 layer gets built up on the surface fairly quickly then "head space" as in height of air above the surface is probably not important. Once again short and fat beats tall and skinny :-) Geoff Reeves Atomic City Ales Los Alamos NM Return to table of contents
Date: 10 Jan 92 12:29:41 EST From: Charlie Papazian/Boulder <72210.2754 at compuserve.com> Subject: WHAT THE HELLES With regard to this bit of message that showed up in the Compuserve Forum > A bit of info for those of you who subscribe to Zymurgy mag. and > do not also recieve the Beverage People news from GFSR. It seems that the > special issue on beer styles has some errors(besides Paddy Giffens > picture). The munich helles article contains some gross mis- information. > Byron Burch claims to have written and submitted it as a sort of joke, > after mailing it in he says that he called the AHA editor to inform them > of the nature of the article in question. But many months later it > appeared in the '91 special issue, errors and all, and the best part is > the author credited is CP. So read this article about helles for its > humorous value and not its brewing advice. I am the author of that article (that's me, Charlie Papazian). I wrote it and believe that it is accurate. It is based on information and observations I got when in Germany. I also consulted with German brewmasters and Weihenstephan Graduates. The point about Munich having hard water is a superficially correct observation. But just because a city's water is hard that does not mean breweries will use it untreated. In fact for light lagers such as Helles and even Weissbiers (the lighter ones, especially) they DO treat their water in a way to reduce the hardness. If you were to use very hard water in a light delicate lager like Munich Helles the hop character would become harsher on the palate. The same principal applies when brewing Pils. Brewers in Munich brew Pils, but they don't use the water right "out of the tap." For many reasons. Brewing Munich Dunkels, dark beers, with hard water is another story and is more steeped in tradition. The darker malts help acidify the liquor to begin with, etc. etc. The claims that "errors" were brought to editors attention and we did not reply, are baffling to us. The lesson here, I believe, is that you can't take water data at face value. You have to research and see how the water is used and treated. Hope this clarifies this issue. I can be reached on Compuserve mail at 72210,2754 until Monday the 13th of January, when I'll be out of town for a few weeks. I'm going in search of the oldest brewery in the Americas Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 92 10:37:40 -0800 From: John Dilley <jad at aspen.iag.hp.com> Subject: Re: Radioactive isotopes used in breweries > Date: Thu, 9 Jan 92 09:44:35 EST > From: Peter Karp <karp at cs.columbia.edu> > Subject: Homebrew Digest #799 (January 10, 1992) > > On the news last night there was a piece about low-level radioactive > waste disposal. The usual sources of this waste were mentioned; > medical and nuclear power plants. But also mentioned were breweries > that apparently used radioactive isotopes for measuring the level of > beer in bottles. Does anyone know how this method works? Are isotopes > mixed into the beer and then detected when it reaches a specified > height in bottle or is beer bombarded and detectors sense some change > when the bottle is filled? I've heard of using radioisotopes for detecting levels of fluids, cracks in bottles, etc. The isotope emits particles that are picked up by a detector on the other side of the sample. Somehow they figure out if everything's OK. It's like using an X-ray except that it can penetrate metal. The isotopes are absolutely not mixed with the beer. (They'd only do that if they wanted to figure out who was drinking their beer -- we'd all have to walk by their detectors :-). My guess is that this technique is used only for statistical sampling; not every can is tested. > Is there a different isotope for ale and lager? Nope. (There might be a different isotope (or isotope density) for Real Beer (tm) as opposed to American mass-brew, though :-) Another use of radioactive isotopes is neutron bombardment of a sample for sterilization purposes. The neutrons kill all life in whatever it is you bombard, so it'll "live" forever (in its lifeless form, of course :-). -- jad -- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 92 10:25:42 PST From: rfozard at slipknot.pyramid.com (Bob Fozard) Subject: glass, crystal, toasted I planned on making a batch this weekend, but since my Wyeast was anxious to get at my great tasting beer wort, I decided to go at it after work last night. There are a couple points of interest I'd like to share. Be it the "power of suggestion", or just fate, all the recent sharing of glass carboy disasters got to me. As I was lifting a carboy full of sterilant to my deep sink, a thought of the "Oz Incident" came to me, and I mentally said "I should be very cautious with this". At that very instant, slip! A mere 2 or 3 inches drop to the edge of the metal deep sink was followed by an angry crash of glass and splashing chlorinated water. Man, if you want to empty a carboy quickly, this works :-) Luckily, I suffered only a very minor cut on my thumb. I donned a pair of leather gardening gloves to clean up the extremely sharp shards, and noticed that the gloves, while not only protecting my hands from cuts, also provide a very "sticky" grip on the wet glass. I'll definately wear them while handling carboys from now on. I've been looking at kegging equipment for a while now, and this incident will speed up my buying decision. I plan to use 5 gallon soda kegs for fermenting, racking, and serving. This is outlined in an issue of Zymurgy (not sure which), and seems like a simple, safe, and efficient method. A few digests back, someone discussed the damages crystal malts suffer at mash temperatures. This intrigued me, and I gave it a try in last night's brew. I rested all but the crystal at 155F, did an iodine test which showed no remaining starch, and then added the crystal and began the raise to 170F. An iodine test after the crystal addition also showed no starch. Could this mean that there is very little/no convertible starch in crystal malt? I believe Miller recommends mashing it to extract the remaining starch and the full goodness of it. What about other specialty malts? For instance, do the sugars in chocolate malt need only be steeped, as in extract brewing, or are there benefits of giving them a full mash? After having the smell of toasted pale malt described to me with utter excitement, I was encouraged to give this a try also in last night's brew. I put .5# Klages on a cookie sheet in the oven at 350F for 15 minutes. I rested this at 155F with the rest of the mash, but would this possibly be better just steeped like the crystal too? cheers and thanks, bob Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 92 12:03:58 MST From: mlh at cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall) Subject: Radioactive isotopes and breweries Peter Karp writes: >On the news last night there was a piece about low-level radioactive waste >disposal. The usual sources of this waste were mentioned; medical and >nuclear power plants. But also mentioned were breweries that apparently >used radioactive isotopes for measuring the level of beer in bottles. >Does anyone know how this method works? Are isotopes mixed into the beer >and then detected when it reaches a specified height in bottle or is >beer bombarded and detectors sense some change when the bottle is filled? First of all, to gain a little credence, let me state that I hold a Ph.D. in Nuclear Engineering. Secondly, let me add the caveat that radiation gauges were not my specialty, although I do know more about them than 99% of the people you would meet on the street. I don't know anything in particular about how breweries use radioisotopes. What follows is purely an educated guess. A common way to use radiation to determine the level of something is called a "transmission gauge". Basically, the idea is to have a source of radiation (a small amount of a radioisotope) on one side of something and a detector on the other side. The detector measures the amount of radiation that gets through the material, which is a function of how much material is there. If you put a transmission gauge at a certain desired fill level on a bottle of beer, the difference between transmitting radiation through a little glass and air (if the fill is low) and transmitting radiation through a little glass and some beer (if the fill level is high) could determine whether or not the fill was above the level of the gauge. Here's a diagram: / \ __________ \|/ | | _______ | | -.- - - - | |- - |_______|---------------| Output | /|\ |^^^^| |__________| | | detector source +----+ bottle with beer Another common radiation gauge is called a "backscatter gauge". It uses a similar principle to the transmission gauge, except the detector is on the same side of the sample as the source. The detector is shielded from the source so that no direct radiation is detected. The radiation that is detected has gone from the source into the sample and backscattered to the detector. The amount that backscatters (and sometimes the energy of the radiation) is a function of how much "stuff" is in the sample, so this method could be used to detect fill levels also. I just now looked all this up in a text of mine ("Radioisotope Measurement Applications in Engineering", Gardner and Ely) and on page 331 there is a diagram similar to the one I've drawn above, except that there are multiple gauges so that some accuracy in the measurement of the liquid level is obtained. They generally use gamma rays generated by a Co-60 source. Radiation gauges are used in all sorts of places that you might not expect: measuring paper thickness in a mill, measuring water content in soil or concrete, oil-well logging, and measuring thicknesses, liquid heights and densities of anything. An medical X-ray is a type of radiation gauge (source on one side, transmitted photons detected on the other side). But I also wanted to directly answer your questions... >Does anyone know how this method works? See above. >Are isotopes mixed into the beer and then detected when it reaches a specified >height in bottle? No, I'm *sure* that no isotopes would be mixed in with the beer. We have more to worry about with the chemicals they're putting in :) > or is beer bombarded and detectors sense some change when the bottle is filled? Yes, this is much closer to the truth. The more I think about it, the best analog that people would be familiar with is a medical X-ray. Note that exposing beer to gamma rays does not harm the beer. >Is there a different isotope for ale and lager? No. As far as the gauge is concerned, beer is mostly water. There would be little difference between the transmission of radiation through ale and lager. Remember, the gauge works on the principle of detecting the difference in radiation transmission between beer and air (or CO2). I hope that I have answered all of your questions. There is just so much bad information being spread by the media on scientific matters that I felt obliged to respond to your query before it I saw it in the papers :) Michael L. Hall hall at lanl.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 92 13:26:46 EST From: mm at lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Michael Mahler) Subject: Homebrew Digest #799 (January 10, 1992) I also live in a high chlorinated water zone. I find that my Amtek whole house carbon filter in conjunction with my Amtek (don't know the model but it's also sold at Sears) undersink "double barrel" carbon/sediment filter leaves me with pristine water. You really shouldn't need to boil city/chlorinated water. I'm a happy Amtek customer, nothing more filter wise. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 92 14:13 CST From: korz at ihlpl.att.com Subject: Weisse vs. Weizen As I've noted before, I'm studying for the BJCP exam this sunday and a question like this may cause a core dump of information, so if I write too much, excuse me. I should be back to normal on Monday. Weisse means "white" in German whereas weizen is "wheat." Both refer to beers are made from a mixture of wheat malt and barley malt with top-fermenting yeast. There are two distinct styles of wheat beers in Germany. In the north, a style called "Berliner Weisse" is made from a lower percentage of wheat malt than the Bavarian style of wheat beer (I don't remember the exact percentage), has a low level of alcohol (around 3% v/v) and is characterized by a lactic sourness. Often the beer is served with essence of woodruff which turns the beer green or (I believe) raspberry syrup which turns the beer red. It is a refreshing drink and thus often associated primarly with summer. The Bavarian (southern) style is usually called Weizen and is made from at least 50% wheat, has a level of alcohol just over 5% v/v and is characterized by a tart (not lactic), fruity palate with clove overtones which (contrary to Papazian who blames the yeast and the wheat) I believe come just from the yeast (S. Delbrucki (sp?)). Paulaner, Ayinger, Spaten and others from Munich call their wheat beers Weisse, though. In a related note, Hefe means "yeast" and Hefe-Weizen is wheat beer with yeast in the bottle. Alas, the yeast added to the bottle is usually a lager yeast due to better flocculation, so culturing it won't give you a Weizen yeast. There are also Dunkelweizen (dark) and Weizenbock (a weizen in bock strength sometimes served as a Christmas beer). I brewed a Dunkel Weizen using 100% wheat malt (Ireks) and used Wyeast's Wheat yeast, but did not get a clove character. I know that Weihenstephan #308 is recommended by Miller for that clove character (although it's an Alt yeast) and that Munton & Fison Ale yeast produces a lot (too much for my liking) of 4-vinyl-guaiacol if fermented at 68F, which gives a clove-like flavor. To summarize (which is what Danny wanted in the first place): Weisse and Weizen both mean it's a wheat beer, but if it's name also includes Berliner, it should have a lactic sourness, whereas if its, Bavarian, it should have clove overtones and no lactic sourness. Sorry, Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 92 14:51:41 EST From: Arthur Delano <ajd at itl.itd.umich.edu> Subject: storytime (fermenter blowups) dab at pyuxe.cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard) writes about a gift of Irish Stout kit that blows up his glass fermenter. Perhaps Oz had jammed the cork on too tightly. Coincidentally, a friend of mine (hi, Tim) emailed me around the same time as this message was posted, saying that ihs first batch of homebrew (also a Christmas present) blew the stopper/blowoff hose and sprayed the ceiling of his bedroom with hops. Fortunately, the carboy didn't blow up so he cleaned up and re-attached an airlock; it seems to be doing well now. I would guess that if the friction of the stopper can keep it in place while the natural strength of the glass jar cannot keep itself together, the stopper probably was in too tightly. (IMU(uneducated)O) More coincidentally, I noticed that one of my current batches of beer was building up a great head in the glass but not going up the blowoff tube. I took the stopper off and noticed that its underside was coated with pellet hop goop, so I guessed that the tube was stopped; a q-tip solved that problem. A long-range solution to the problem would be to use larger hose; plastic tubing comes in diameters large enough to fit the mouth of the carboy alone. I can't see something that large getting stuck unless you're brewing with grain stalks (:->). I have a somewhat related question. Has anybody had beer bottles explode? When I first moved out here, there was considerable protest by a roommie who was afraid of blow-ups. I was able to mollify him by saying that none of my batches (all of two) had exploded. Under what sort of conditions would a bottle explode? Does anybody know what PSI the contents would have to be at (roughly, I know, because bottles come in all sorts of configurations) for the bottle to explode? Thanks, AjD Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1992 14:57 PDT From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov> Subject: Sour Mash Answers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Following submitted by Micah Millspaw. I'm just the old conduit. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GENERAL ANSWERS TO SOUR MASH QUESTIONS DAVE- and many others ask : Yes it is malted wheat . The 20% barley malt is american grown 2-row klages, it has an ubundance of enzymes for starch conversion (plus there is a lot of time available). The wheat seems to present a more interesting flavour profile IMHO. As for the sour mash contaminating your brewing environment, I've not had a problem with it. There are a lot of questions coming in so here goes. I sour 1/2 (one half) of the mash,the high % wheat half the other is straight infusion. Aluminum foil has nothing to do with sour mashing technique, CP is awfully vague about this and most other topics. I do how ever make a effort to minimize heat loss by using a ice chest and sealing the lid with duct tape. If it smells rotten is OK. The bacteria at work are for the most part aerobic. If it looks bad its OK. After 14 hours no matter how bad you think you screwed up, its OK just see the thing thru, it is worth it. Good Luck. Prost. SOUR MASH RECIPE ( this one is good ) 10gallons 5# 2-row klages mash at 158F for 14 hours 10# wheat malt 10# 2-row klages infusion mash at 155F 1.5 hours 2# wheat malt 2oz centennial hops 12 alpha 1/2oz coriander freshly crushed half in each fermenter OG 15 B FG 2 B combine mashes for mash out at 170F 15 min. sparge at 170F 75 min. boil, after cooled split into two carboys, pitch a Chimay reculture into one and a chico ale yeast into the other, add 1/4 oz freshly crushed coriander to each. After 7 days fermentation blend the two batches together in a larger vessel ferment 7 days more kegged with 1/4 cup corn sugar per 5 gallons. Counter pressure bottled after 2 weeks. ======================================================================= As I noted before this mashing technique is not a part of lambic or sour brown production. Although you could use it. The lambic's flavour/aroma is a result of a unique fermentation process involving a host of yeasts and bacteria, I recommend J.X. Guinard's Lambic book for more info. It is unfortunate that articles in Zymurgy wriiten by CP lead people to beleive that sour mashing is a part of lambic, perhaps he could read Guinards book after all isn't he the publisher! ========================================================================= THIS IS NOT A SOUR MASH BEER RECIPE. PLEASE DO NOT BE CONFUSED Dave asked about Flanders or sour brown ales, so here we go. Making a sour brown type beer is somewhat easier than a lambic. So here is my recipe for an excellent sour brown kreik beer. 5 gallons 10# 2-row klages 15# wheat malt 2# chocolate malt 1/4oz styrian goldings 2oz cluster hops OG 1070 FG1020 single temp. infusion mash at 165F for 1.5 hours prise de mousse (S. bayanus) and Pediococus D. in the fermenter 7 day primary/14 day secondary kegged with 16oz cherry concentrate (68 brix) and Brettenomyces culture. MICAH MILLSPAW 1/9/92 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 92 18:29:08 MST From: kbrunell at NMSU.Edu Subject: New Brewer Hi! I'm going to try my first batch hopefully sometime within the next week. I've been digesting vast amounts of information from HBD and R.C.B, and have learned a lot so far. Anyway, my question at present is: Would it be a good idea for me to build a simple immersion chiller, cool the wort to the 70F range, and then allow the wort to splash around a bit (pass through the air) on transfer to the fermenter to be aerated/oxygenated and make the yeast happy, and not be worried about oxidation? That's my question for now.... Thanks in advance -Ken Brunell Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 92 23:53:57 EST From: Robb Holmes <RHOLMES at uga.cc.uga.edu> Subject: Historical Homebrew ( no. 2) This is the second posting containing beer recipes that I received in 1975 or 1976, presumably from the makers of Blue Ribbon malt syrup. The first installment appeared in Homebrew Digest # 795, and one more remains to be published afer this. Please note that this recipe is posted here for purposes of historical interest only. It is not a recommended recipe. The format of the original has been followed faithfully, except that I have not attempted to indicate where underlining occurred in the original, and the single quote character (') stands in for the degree symbol. I am aware of two spelling errors, which are reproduced from the original. Any others must be mine. - -------------------- INGREDIENTS FOR A FIVE TO SIX GALLON BATCH 1 can Hop-Flavored Malt Syrup - 6 Gallon Crock or Plastic Container (Light, Pale Dry, Dark or Extra Pale) Bottle Capper 3 or 4 lbs. Sugar Good Crown Caps 1 Yeast cake or Vierka Lager Yeast Bottles (clean) Dissolve malt syrup and sugar in 2 quarts of hot water. When dissolved pour into crock and add about 18 to 20 quarts of cold water. Mix yeast in a cup of lukewarm water (70'F.) and with a wooden spoon gently stir into the malt and sugar mixture. Cover with a clean cloth and allow to ferment at room temperature (about 68' to 70'). Skim off the foam for the first three days. The fermentation process is completed when no more gas bubbles appear (about the 4th or 5th day). If tester or hydrometer is used, bottle at the red line, being certain it is down in the surface. Gelatin may be used to settle the yeast. Dissolve two small envelopes of Knox Gelatin in hot water. Pour the gelatin over the top of brew in crock about a day before you plan to bottle or when tester is around 1/2%. Bottling: After bottles have been thoroughly washed put a scant 1/2 teaspoon of sugar in bottle and fill to within an inch and a half from the top. Cap, then tip upside down once and store upright in a warm place (70-75 degrees). Storing and Handling: Store bottles in an upright position (not on side) to allow beer to age. The sediment and yeast will settle to bottom and the beer will become golden clear. In a couple of weeks the beer should be aged suffi- cently to drink. To cool beer, place bottles in an upright position in the refrigerator. When handling the bottled beer it is essential they remain in an upright position. This will allow the sediment to remain on the bottom and not be disturbed. To Serve: Open cold bottle of beer and pour into a pitcher or glass that is large enough to hold contents of bottle. Pour slowly and avoid sloshing the beer in the bottle. When the sediment starts to flow to the neck opening stop pouring. Things to Watch: 1. If beer is cloudy or tastes gritty you have disturbed the sediment by shaking it up or pouring too fast. 2. If beer tastes "flat" you either bottled it too late or did not allow it to "age" long enough. 3. If beer tends to foam up or tastes "airy" you bottled it too soon. Wash crock in plain water, never use soap, detergents or soap pads. A Chore Girl pad should be used to remove brown ring. By having a large container - 6, 8, 10 or 12 gallons, you can increase the recipe proportinately and it will avoid foaming over. Soak bottle caps in warm water to soften cork lining before bottling for easier and firmer capping. GOOD LUCK! Return to table of contents
Date: 11 Jan 92 08:02:15 EST From: chip upsal <70731.3556 at compuserve.com> Subject: copper Dave Coombs writes: >This is the same sort of copper tubing that's used in plumbing, right? >And we drink the water that travels through it to the faucet. So what >is commonly done when installing copper plumbing to ensure clean >water? Yes, it is the same copper somtimes used for plumbing -- ridgid tubing is more common. Clorine is reccomonded -- often required -- for cleaning out new plumbing -- one of the things this does is clear the pipes of any residual flux. Chip Return to table of contents
Date: Saturday, 11 January 1992 9:30am ET From: joshua.grosse at amail.amdahl.com Subject: Homebrew Malt Qualities Last night, I took my first Beer Judge Certification Program class, which is being taught by Fred Scheer of the Frakenmuth Brewery. During a discussion of ingredients, Fred talked about malts that are available to him and compared them with malts that are made available to home brewers. He said that most malters will modify malts for home brewers way beyond what they would do for commercial brewers. His explanation is that every home brewer uses a slightly different procedure, rests may be too long or too short, and that homebrewers are concerned with high extraction rates. The commercial brewers are able to adjust procedures to match differences in batches of malt, whereas homebrewers may not be able to do so. This came up during a discussion of diecytl production due to the level of the amino acid valine (sp?). He asked us, "How many of you have called your malt supplier and asked for an analysis?" He said that this is very difficult for homebrewers to get, as they don't buy malts in commercial quantities. I mentioned that I'd just obtained a general analysis of various malt types (thanks, Russ), and he said, "Your supply will vary, you should get an analysis with every batch." He suggested that we as homebrewers demand this information be included with every batch of grain. If we begin to demand this information, our retailers will ask our wholesalers, who will ask the malt houses, who will eventually supply it due to consumer demand. Then, along with our Alpha Acid analysis on every bag of hops, we'll get a malt analysis on every bag of malt. Of course, we'll need to build HCU (Homebrew Color Units) and HDU (Homebrew Diastatic Units) and other HxU numbers into all our recipes. This is going to be an interesting class! - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Josh Grosse jdg00 at amail.amdahl.com Amdahl Corp. 313-358-4440 Southfield, Michigan Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 92 12:51:48 CST From: Jacob Galley <gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: How to put caffeine and anise in beer? I'm sorry if this idea offends anyone too much, but this brew I'm planning has a special purpose. I am planning to make a Sleepout Caffeinated Doppelbock. Sleepout is a weekend in the Spring when all us nutty undergrads here at the University of Chicago "sleep" out on the quads the night before the first day that we're allowed to make registration appointments. The earlier you arrive, the earlier you can register for next year's classes, and the less the chance of the classes you want/need being filled by the time you get there. So understand, I need a drink that will intoxicate me and my friends, but "won't slow us down" as some marketroids might put it. Does anyone have any ideas about how to add caffeine to beer? I don't want any coffee flavoring -- not in a doppelbock. Would pills be okay? Do I have to be careful of heating the caffeine too much? I'm also toying with the idea af adding a hint of anise or fennel flavor, but I realize that aniseed is fairly oily, and don't want to jeopardize the head. Can someone suggest a method of adding flavor without oils? I plan on pitching trappist yeast. If this works out, I'll post the recipe. Thanks in advance! Reinheitsgebot <-- "Keep your laws off my beer!" <-- gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #800, 01/13/92