FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Lager, Kitchen Aid, Wyeast, Plastic, (Jack Schmidling)
  Re: Pride of Ringwood (Brian Batke)
   (Doumen Jan)
  Hops dead? ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Priming Sugar (Bob Hettmansperger)
  Brewing Variables (Carlo Milono)
  IBU, AAU's, HBU (Walter H. Gude)
  Wyeast London Ale (Ray Mrohs)
  Trappist All Grain Recipe Request (Glenn Tinseth)
  Pride of Ringwood hops (Brett Shorten)


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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 92 21:02 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Lager, Kitchen Aid, Wyeast, Plastic,

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 ------------------------------
 
 I would like to hear from anyone who can describe the difference between a 
 lager and an ale, in terms of the taste.
 
 I am thinking in terms of everything else being equal, just what are the 
 effects of cold, long-term lagering on the taste of a beer.
 
 If one made a batch of beer and lagered half in cold and used ale yeast at 
 ale temperatures on the other half, what would one expect to taste that makes 
 it all worth while?
 
 Breweries spend zillions to lager so I presume there must be a reason but as 
 most of what they make, isn't worthy of the name beer, I can't help but 
 wonder why they bother.
 
 As I keep looking for ways of improving my beer,  I don't want to overlook 
 anything but this just seems like lunacy, (sort of like using liquid yeast).
 
 >From: Brian Batke <bab at whydah.icd.ab.com>
 
 >I seem to remember someone asking about the Kitchen Aid grain
 mill (that fits on the PTO of your Kitchen Aid mixer) a while back,
 but I don't remember seeing any response.
 
 >So, has anyone tried it? If so, how well does it work? At $124,
 it's pretty expensive.
 
 I have one and tried it and it is utterly useless.  As a matter of fact, I 
 permanently destroyed one part of the gear drive and can no longer use the 
 grinder attachment.  It is one of the things that drove me to build the 
 MALTMILL.
 
 >From: "John Cotterill" <johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com>
 
 >Every day I give the relief valve a pull and get about a 3 second blast of 
 CO2.  The gravity, however does not seem to be changing.  The beer tastes OK.
 Why is it not fermenting out?
 
 Standby!  I had a similar problem with a batch that fermented like new beer 
 for several months.  A vile taste eventually caught up with the bubbles.
 
 I suspect you have unwitingly exploded the myth of "Wyeast purity".  Sounds 
 like they cheated on the old family recipe and slipped you a bit of Red Star.
 
 >From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
 
 >It is my belief that the more uses you devise for a tool or gadget,
 the better you spent your money.
  
 > Now lets look at portable propanes burners and LP propane tanks.
 Besides brewing, I use my setup for.......
 
 That's a tough act to follow but I obviously did not have you in mind.  I was 
 simply trying to save others the expense of investing in a propane setup if 
 they have a gas line handy.  
 
 >  Now granted, your setup does sound very inexpensive.  If I were the
 tinkerer type, I would probably build one like yours.  But I'm not so I
 won't.  Do you have other uses for your "little fire-brick house"?  Do
 you lug your bricks out back and run a gas hose?  How much time does this
 take?  Do you lug your bricks to the park and follow with a gas line? 
 
 None of the above but I do use it as a melting furnace to make all the 
 castings used in the MALTMILL.
 
 > Is there going to be another video on this?
 
 You haven't been paying attention.  It most certainly will be a segment in my 
 new video on all grain brewing... the EASYMASH way.
 
 >I hope this sheds alittle light.  If you have any problems
 understanding any of this, I would be more than glad to educate you at
 next weeks meeting at the Goose.
 
 Better yet, I will bring some of my latest brew and you can then join the 
 millions who recognize ARF GENERIC as the "WORLD'S GREATEST BEER".
 
 >From: mstrange at alfred.ccs.carleton.ca (N E N Strangelove)
 
 >Is there any problems associated with using the plastic 1 and 2 litre
 plastic pop bottles for bottling beer? 
 
 There are no mechanical problems but there have been allegations that 
 something in them is soluble in alcohol and a rebuttal that said, not so.
 
 The only problem I have had with them is that they retain the smell of what 
 ever was in it last and what ever goes in next taste like the last.
 
 This is easily remedied by soaking in bleach between uses.
 
 I always fill a few plastic bottles when bottling a batch to monitor the 
 carbonation.  
 
 I also fill them from the keg to bring to parties and brew club meetings so 
 that I can share the "WORLD'S GREATEST BEER" with the world.
 
 >  Also, I would like to hear of other bottling options - such as the
 use of champaign bottles.
 
 Champaign bottles are ideal for beer for two.
 
 You can use plastic champaign corks or crown caps on most of them.
 
 js
 

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Date: Tue, 03 Mar 92 08:03:39 EST
From: Brian Batke <bab at whydah.icd.ab.com>
Subject: Re: Pride of Ringwood


Russ Gelinas writes:

> 
>   Pride of Ringwood (Ringwold?) is an Australian hops, I believe.  A
> discerning nose can find it in most if not all Australian beer, such as
> Fosters or Coopers.  It's got an earthy aroma that I really like.  I've
> never seen any or heard of anyone using any in the States.  If anyone
> knows if it's available please let me know too.

I haven't used them, but they are listed in the American Brewmaster
price list - pellets only, 10.1% Alpha, $1.10 per oz. They also
have two New Zealand hops listed: Green Bullet and Sticklbract.

Their number is 919-850-0095.

(I have no affiliation with American Brewmaster).

- -----------
Brian Batke
bab at icd.ab.com
Allen-Bradley Co., Highland Hts, Ohio


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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 92 14:02:45 MET
From: jqdoumen at vub.ac.be (Doumen Jan)
Subject: 

subscribe homebrew doumen jan

- --
/=============================================================================\
| Doumen Jan                                Voice : 32 2 3590209              |
| Vrije Universiteit Brussel                Fax   : 32 2 3590390              |
| Instituut Voor Moleculaire Biologie                                         |
| Department For Ultra-structure                                              |
| B - 1640 Sint-Genesius-Rhode           Internet : jqdoumen at vub.ac.be        |
| Belgium                             EARN/BITNET : jqdoumen at BBRBFU60.BITNET  |
\=============================================================================/


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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1992 09:38:27 -0500 (EST)
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Hops dead?

On Feb 25, Daniel Roman <tix!roman at uunet.UU.NET > writes:

> I bought some cuttings from an outfit in Oregon and when they
> arrived by UPS ground I immediately opened the box and stuck them in
> the ground.  I finally dug them up and all four were dead.

Most garden suppliers will reship under these conditions.  Did you even try
calling or writing them?  They should know that they are shipping a perishable
product that sometimes won't make it, and should be willing to replace them.

On the issue of "dead" plantings:  It's not always so obvious.  Two years ago,
we ordered two grape vines (just for eating, not wine).  By the time I got
around to planting them, one was apparently totally dead.  I planted anyway,
figuring that I would lose nothing by doing so.  The first produced leaves
pretty quickly, while the second one just sat there.  A couple of months later,
I noticed that the "dead" one had put out a couple of small leaves.  It
continued to grow, and is now almost as big and hearty as the other.

=Spencer W. Thomas 		HSITN, U of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
spencer.thomas at med.umich.edu	313-747-2778

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Date: 3 Mar 92 09:36:18
From: Bob Hettmansperger <Bob_Hettmansperger at klondike.bellcore.com>
Subject: Priming Sugar

          Priming Sugar

Aaargh.

I've got a batch of Pale Ale burbling away nicely in my closet (no geyser this
time).  But, while making plans for bottling it this week, I've discovered that
I forgot to order priming sugar when I mail ordered my ingredients.  Normally
this wouldn't be a problem, I'd run out to a friendly neighborhood homebrew
supply store and just buy some.  Only two problems with that: 1) There isn't
one  in my neighborhood; the nearest 40 miles away and 2) some pinhead decided
to plow into the side of my car so I'm without transportation.

So, I was wondering if corn sugar was available in any other type of store that
might be closer by (it's a lot easier to mooch rides when you don't have to go
far), or if I could use cane sugar to prime.  Anyone have any suggestions?  I'm
finding it hard to RDWHHB without my car.


 -Bob Hettmansperger



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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 92 8:15:57 PST
From: cmilono at netcom.com (Carlo Milono)
Subject: Brewing Variables


  There are several aspects of brewing that are escaping me, and I would
love to understand the process better.

  If I take the exact same ingredients and in the same proportions, I notice
that there are many ways to manipulate the final product.  In some cases,
the body and perceived alcohol content differ widely.

  Here are some of the topics I'd like to understand:

1) Affect of thin vs. thick mash
	- different enzymes are activated (like pH changes??)
2) Affect of single step (~153F) vs. Step vs. Decoction
	- Acid Rest->Protein Rest->Starch Conv. (depends on type of malt
          and style, but what are the processes?)
3) Attenuative Yeasts vs. Unattenuative
	- some can't ferment the more complex sugars (sweetness or body?)
	  (which yeasts are which, and are some more than others within
          a category?)
4) Variables to increase/decrease fusel alcohols and/or esters 
	- is there a relationship between these two? (re: trub removal)

I realize that I've gotten close to answering my own questions, but I feel
my knowledge isn't enough.  I want to be able to change the mechanical
steps to match particular styles, and ingredients alone are not enough.
			
			Thanks...


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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 92 08:46:44 CST
From: whg at tellabf.tellabs.com (Walter H. Gude)
Subject: IBU, AAU's, HBU


Ay, the confusion.  As I understand it:

HBUs are # of oz. of hops times alpha acid.

AAUs are (#oz. * AA) per gallon of wort. (or is it per 5 gal.)

And IBU are probalby a linear multiplication of AAUs.  (i.e. AAUs*Constant).

Help me, help me please, I been hypnoootized.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Walter Gude



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Date:         Tue, 3 Mar 92  16:11:08 EST
From: Ray Mrohs <IRMIS971%SIVM.bitnet at VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Wyeast London Ale

From: Ray Mrohs
      Systems Programmer
      Smithsonian Institution

I must say, my first encounter with Wyeast was very 'enlightening'.
Knowing what I did about Wyeast (mostly thru HBD), I was very delicate
in trying to break the inner packet while, of course, holding down the
whole envelope above the bottom seam.  All the packet did was squish
around the inside of the envelope until I gave it a good whack and then
*SPLAT*, the contents shot out the middle of the *SIDE* seam, across the
counter and onto our 6-month-old baby girl.  After the ensueing carnage
(my wife just *happened* to be there watching), I checked the envelope
to find a 1/4 inch hole in the seam and the slippery little packet of
yeast still intact!  I then pinched the envelope between the thumb and
forefinger which finally broke the packet.  I mended the seam with heavy-
duty duct tape and propped the envelope on its good side.  The product
swelled as advertised and I pitched the following day.  Bubbles appeared
in the air lock after 24 hours, so fermentation *LOOKS* OK.

My point is, a product with a good reputation can't afford to be compromised
by sub-standard packaging.  This envelope had a recent production date of
FEB 19.  Coupled with the number of similar experiences I've read about in
HBD and the fact that the problem has existed for so long, it seems that
someone in Oregon has not been minding the store (my opinion).

BTW - to keep the Ralph Nadarites at bay - my daughter really didn't mind
what happened.  I just didn't think her first home brew experience would
be so soon!


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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 92 13:36:29 PST
From: Glenn Tinseth <tinsethg at UCS.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Trappist All Grain Recipe Request

Greetings,

I just got a package of the new Belgian Ale yeast strain/s from Wyeast and I
want to try my hand at a beer like Chimay Grand Reserve. Any recipes using all
grain that might be similar and/or any hints about the Wyeast Belgian yeast 
fermentation requirements would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance. Please e-mail and I will summarize if there is enough of a
response. I will also relate back with any info gained this weekend (brewing).

Glenn
tinsethg at ucs.orst.edu

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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 92 10:37:43 EST
From: Brett Shorten <s05bas at wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au>
Subject: Pride of Ringwood hops

Being Australian, I was pleased with the recent interest expressed
in this digest in Pride of Ringwood hops. Basically, these are virtually
the only hops grown in Australia (with the exception of a few low
volume finishing styles such as "Southern Brewer") and are used, as
far as I know, in all Australian beers. They are one of the most
bitter hops around, but produce little in the way of hop aromas.
  Although I live in Wollongong, New South Wales (just south of Sydney)
I buy my Pride of Ringwoods from a home brew shop in Tasmania. This
is by far the best source of FRESH hops I have found, which is not
surprising since virtually all of Australia's hops are grown just to the
north-west of Hobart, about 30 minutes from this shop. For those who
would like to try this type of hop, the address is
Tasmanian Home Brewing Supplies
179 Elizabeth St.
Hobart, Tasmania, 7000
Australia

  Actually this could be quite a bargain for you American brewers, as
they sell these hops for $A2.60 (about $US2) for 200 grams (almost 8 oz).
I dont know whether they will ship overseas, but they certainly mail
interstate within Australia. Not sure about shipping costs either.
  As an alternative, I would like to get access to fresh American hops,
so perhaps I could come to some swapping arrangement with someone in this
digest. Drop me a line if you are interested, and we'll see if some mutually
satisfactory arrangement can be worked out.

Brett Shorten

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #836, 03/04/92