FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re:Homebrew shops in NY (SOMAK)
  An Alternative to Dry/Liguid Yeast? (David Collins)
  Boiling Pots. (RANDY OLINGER)
  A eulogy for Cher Feinstein (Thomas Manteufel 5-4257)
  HBU, IBU, %Util & Math ("John Cotterill")
  Wyeast European Ale (TSAMSEL)
  new shareware program aids formulating beer recipes (Tony Babinec)
  dark malts (Russ Gelinas)
  Ripping the Big Boys (Gordon Baldwin)
  Update on publicly traded breweries. (Dances with Workstations)
  re:  Help!  I'm about to worry! (lg562)
  RE: Kathy Ireland (Ron Karwoski)
  Papazian and "Honeymoon" (Steve Mitchell)
  Publicly owned micros. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Wicked Ale recipe (volkerding patrick)
  Re: Non-gluten beer (John DeCarlo)
  Cheap 5-gal stainless steel pots (Tom Nolan)
  Residual malt sweetness in Continental lager (Fred Condo)
  Red Star (Pierre Charles Jelenc)
  Investing (Heather Godsey)
  Spiced Ale recipe (David Van Iderstine)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 13 Mar 92 14:56 PST
From: SOMAK%FITKJES2.BITNET at SEARN.SUNET.SE
Subject: Re:Homebrew shops in NY

Thanks for everybody who answered my question about homebrew
shops in New York and in Albany.  Now I know where to find
best ingredients in lowest costs.

Greetings from rainy Finland,

Markku

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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 92 09:13:01 EST
From: David Collins <djc at supra.ece.cmu.edu>
Subject: An Alternative to Dry/Liguid Yeast?


Reading all the Dry vs. Liquid yeast posts reminded me of a letter that
appeared in Zymurgy a few years back.  I couldn't dig up the issue, so I'll
try to recall the main points of this letter.

The letter was written by the owner of a homebrew store in Philidelphia,
Home Sweet Homebrew or something like that.  He said that he had had great
success brewing quality lagers with Fleishman's Yeast.  Before you start
laughing, let me explain.  This wasn't the dried Fleishman's yeast that you
buy in the baking section in your local grocery, it was a brick of
professional baking yeast that is sold by Fleishman's.  He said that
Fleishman's is actually owned by Anheiser-Busch Corp. and they sell bricks
of yeast to bakeries, etc.  He said that it was difficult to buy just a
brick of the yeast, that you had to buy a case.  The cost was very low per
brick and gave you a large amount of yeast to pitch with.  He said to avoid
infection, he cut off the sides of the yeast brick that were in contact
with the paper wrapper with a sterilized knife.  It sounded like cutting off
the sides of a pound of butter.  Anyway, it sounded intriguing because it
gave you a large source of yeast to pitch in a form that was very storable,
cheap, and didn't involve making a starter.  Does anybody have any
experiences with this brick yeast?  How pure of a strain it is?

Here is a stupid question?  I've been reading all the articles on Wyeast,
but I don't know how it pronounced?  wi-yeast (Wy-east), double-u-yeast
(W-yeast).  Silly, but I've never had to pronounce the name.  I just mail
order it and use it.

 -Dave Collins


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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 92 09:33:42 CST
From: RANDY OLINGER <ROLINGER at 12.104.decnet>
Subject: Boiling Pots.

I have a question about my latest purchase.  I'd like to preface this
with the statement "I am not an idiot, really".

I recently bought a boiling pot.  It is 5 gallons and will work really will
for chili too!  Problem is, it is aluminum.  I have been told several times
that aluminum is bad (since I made the purchase) but noone really can
tell me why.  Closest I have come is that it oxidizes the wort, which makes
no sense since aluminum is not oxygen.  I do not wish to re-kindle the
debate about alzheimers disease, lets just say I'm willing to take my
chances there.  I'm only concerned with how this will affect my beer, not
my brain.  Beer tends to affect my brain enough without the worry of
a debate over how I spell alzhimers.   :-)
Anyway...what's the deal with aluminum???     

Randy Olinger   aka "Shiny Happy Person"

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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 92 10:21:57 CST
From: tomm at pet.med.ge.com (Thomas Manteufel 5-4257)
Subject: A eulogy for Cher Feinstein

Cher Feinstein died March 2 after a several year long battle with cancer.
Long time readers of the Homebrew Digest will remember her as the digest's
authority on mead making, an appellation she earned through experience and
the willingness to share her knowledge.  She first became interested in
making mead through her membership in the SCA, a society dedicated to 
recreating and preserving the techniques of the middle ages.  When she
discovered the digest, she became interested in the wider world of brewing.
I met her through the digest, and while we never met face-to-face,
we did have several interesting electronic discussions.  She was always
cheerful and enthusiastic, freely offering advice without being condescending.
The last time we talked, in December, she apologized for not being able to
respond in more depth to my questions, but promised to reply as soon as she
felt better.  That was not to be.  Even as she was dying, she had the
courtesy to talk to me.  Would that we all would display such courtesy to
each other.

Thomas Manteufel                           NFTFRN

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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 92 8:54:47 PST
From: "John Cotterill" <johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com>
Subject: HBU, IBU, %Util & Math
Full-Name: "John Cotterill"

The spring issue of Zymurgy has on excellent article on homebrew math.
The article goes into calculating gravities, color, HBU, and IBU.  I highly
recommend to those who want to know more but were afraid to ask.

Also, the new TCJOHB has a table in it (I think, book is not here) that shows
the %utilization of hops with boil time vs gravity.   
JC
johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com

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Date:    Fri, 13 Mar 1992 12:16:59 -0500 (EST)
From: TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV
Subject: Wyeast European Ale

  I've found that the slowness of this yeast is helped by racking to a 
secondary for an extra week or two of frementation. You'll be amazed by
the amount of sed. that shows up in the secondary. Also the second
pitch with the European ale is much faster. Use the sediment in your
next batch for a starter.
  Prime lightly, too. When I first used this, all my brews were SCUD-like
gushers.
   I've had the same experience with the Wyeast ALT.
  Ted

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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 92 10:11:20 CST
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: new shareware program aids formulating beer recipes

I will make this short, sweet, and informational in tone.  

Chris Campinelli has written a shareware program entitled Beer Recipe
Formulator (BRF).  It runs on DOS-compatible PCs. It's a no-frills
program that's easy to use.  You tell it the expected wort volume and
your expected extraction rate.  You can call up the target style you
intend to brew, and it pops up the Zymurgy style information.  You
then build your recipe by toggling amounts of different grains in.
Once grains are specified, you can go to a hop screen and plan your
hop additions.  If you have a local pc printer available, you can
print the recipe out.  The grain and hop information exist in editable
files.  It's easy to edit the hop data file and put in only hops you
currently have on hand, along with their alpha ratings.  The program
will tell you your "expected" starting gravity, IBU, and color in SRM
units.

Standard disclaimer here:  I have no financial interest here.  I'm
simply a satisfied user.  Chris is undoubtedly too modest to put any
promotion in HBD, so I took the liberty of doing it for him.  Being
Shareware, if you obtain the program and like it, you might send $15 to
him to be on his mailing list, and help defray costs of manufacturing and
mailing.  Chris's network address is: 

akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us

Sorry, Chris!

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Date:    Fri, 13 Mar 1992 12:51:59 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: dark malts

   Another thing that dark malt accomplishes is lowering the pH of the
mash.  I don't know any exact figures; I just always include at least 1/4 lb.
in the mash.  Is there a "X oz. of dark malt decreases the pH by Y amount"
formula, or would it would be too dependent on the water mineral content?

    Jay Hersh:  I got the hops, thanks. I need your address.

Russ

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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 92 8:41:16 PST
From: Gordon Baldwin <hpubvwa.nsr.hp.com!sherpa2!gbaldwin>
Subject: Ripping the Big Boys

I thing the flack we are giving to the BudMilLob breweries is deserved.
I don't think anyone on the digest will disagree with the statement that
they put a lot of effort (read $$) into producing their beer. The
complaint is they only produce ONE type of beer (two if you count dry).
The American Light Lager is a fine style of beer and I enjoy it on
occasion. It is like spending lots of money on a state of the art
kitchen with all the gadgets and cooking only steak and potatos. They
make a fine meal, but I like a little more variety. I think most
consumers would welcome more variety in the commercial beer market, but
most beer drinkers are not even aware that there is any other type
available. 

I resent the fact that BudMilLob is pushing so hard dollar wise to make
the American Light Lager the only style of beer available. I have a
little more respect for Coors, as they do produce a few more styles that
are available from time to time. I wish more of the majors would follow
their lead. In the mean time I will stick with the micros here in the
Pacific Northwest. There are few bars around here that don't carry at
least on of the various micros.
- --

Gordon Baldwin
ELDEC Corp
sherpa2!gbaldwin at sunup.west.sun.com
 ...!hpubvwa!sherpa2!gbaldwin


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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 92 13:06:24 EST
From: Dances with Workstations <buchman at marva1.ENET.dec.com>
Subject: Update on publicly traded breweries.

Hi,
	I asked recently about microbreweries in which one might be able
to buy stock. Since then, I found out from Schwab that AnchBc and BostBc,
which are listed in the NASDAQ section, are Anchor Banking Corp and
Boston Banking Corp--banking, not brewing :-P
	However, two alert readers wrote mention Pavichavich Brewing in
Elmhurst IL. They make Baderbrau Pilsner, and are listed as BRAU. I couldn't
find the listing in any of our area papers, but Schwab said that they were
currently quoting for 3 1/8.
	If anyone finds out about Anchor or BBC, please let me know.
			Thanks,
				Jim Buchman

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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 92 09:48:50 PST
From: lg562 at koshland.pnl.gov
Subject: re:  Help!  I'm about to worry!

Kelly,

The slow start on the fermentation is about what I get when I brew
with liquid yeast.  It seems to have about an extra day of lag time
over dry yeasts.  So I wouldn't worry about that or tamper with it by
stirring it.

Using a smaller amount of Crystal could have lead to the lower OG, but
I have noticed a number of variances in the OG when I brew up a batch.
So the losses might be due to boilover, if that happened, or spilling
before it got into the fermentor.

Because the OG was lower, the yeast would not have fermented with as
much fervor as the higher OG batch, so that might explain why it
didn't lead to blowoff.  My primary fermentation is in a big plastic
bucket, so I don't try to remove the blowoff.  I still get great
beers, so I wouldn't worry about that as well.  The recipe sounds
pretty good and you should have good batch on your hands.


Michael Bass
Molecular Science Research Center, K2-18
Battelle - Pacific Northwest Laboratory
Richland, Washington  99352
lg562 at pnl.gov
n7wlc


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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 92 12:46:22 CST
From: rak at mayo.EDU (Ron Karwoski)
Subject: RE: Kathy Ireland

I wonder if there is any chance Kathy Ireland will be attending
the AHA conference in Milwaukee. Gee, $220 sounds cheaper all the
time.

Also, Kathy, if you are listening, the Minnesota TimberWorts meet
the second Saturday of every month. If you are ever in the Minneapolis
or Rochester area we'd love to have you attend a meeting. Lodging
arrangments can be made.

Hey, its worth a try!  :^)
Ron Karwoski   rak at mayo.edu

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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 92 10:47:50 PST
From: steve at caticsuf.CSUFresno.EDU (Steve Mitchell)
Subject: Papazian and "Honeymoon"


I just ran across Papazian's account of the origins of the word
"honeymoon."  He contends that tradition had the newlyweds drinking
mead (HONEY) for one month (MOON) after their wedding.  This was
supposed to insure fertility and the birth of sons.  I assume that
this is Anglo-Saxon in origin.

Please forgive the non technical nature of this question, but I'm 
interested if anybody can give me any more information on this
myth.  I am specifically interested in any references that I may
be able to find in my university library.  Possibly a "history of 
mead" would mention the subject?  (Of course, speculation is also
welcome :)

Thanks.

- --steve
- -- 
Steve Mitchell
steve_mitchell at csufresno.edu

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Date: 13 Mar 92 13:54:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Publicly owned micros.

No, NO, 100 times *NNNOOO*.

One of the biggest curses in our society is the publicly held corporation.  
I hope all of the decent microbreweries stay private.  If they go public, 
then the stockholders, whoever they may be, will be king of the brew, not 
the owner(s).  Stockholders don't care about quality, they care about 
PROFIT.  I know that a few true blue brewers would purchase stock, but that 
might account fot a few percent at most.  The force that drives American 
business, greed and profit, would reduce the micros to dust in short order. 
 See Sierra Nevada go public?  See A-B purchase 51 % of the stock?  See 
sierra Nevada Pale Ale Light?  See you crying, remembering what snpa *used* 
to be?  See my point?
Dan


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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 92 13:43:20 -0600
From: volkerdi at MHD1.moorhead.msus.edu (volkerding patrick)
Subject: Wicked Ale recipe


In HBD 843 John Freeborg asks about a recipe for Pete's Wicked Ale. 

Not too long ago, Kelly Keuhl from the Schell brewery in New Ulm was up
here as the featured speaker at a local beer tasting. He brought lots of free 
pamphlets and stuff with him, so I grabbed whatever I could. One of them 
had a list of all the ingredients for Pete's Wicked Ale, and all the Schell 
and Ulmer beers. They didn't list amounts, but they gave the alcohol 
content of the finished beer, which might help steer you toward determining 
the amounts you'll need.

Here's what it says:

Name of beer:      Pete's Wicked Ale
Style:             Brown Ale
Ingredients:       Pale Malt
                   Crystal Malt
                   Chocolate Malt
                   Cascade Hops
                   Chinook Hops
Alcohol by weight: 4.0 %
Character:         "Full, toasty ale. Rich caramel flavor reminicent of
                    classic English brown ale."

Hope this helps give you a start in the right direction.
If there's any interest in the other beers that were listed, let me know
and I'll post them.

Patrick Volkerding
 

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Date: Friday, 13 Mar 1992 14:48:33 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Non-gluten beer

>From: mlh at cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall)

>A non-homebrewer friend of mine has recently been told that he
>has to go on a non-gluten diet.
 ...
>Apparently, barley, wheat, and oatmeal are no-nos, but rice is

Is there gluten in beer?

Someone told me that the gluten as such doesn't exist in beer,
though it certainly exists in raw barley and wheat.
Do we have an expert on this in our midst?

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date:    Fri, 13 Mar 1992 15:01:16 -0500 (EST)
From: NOLAN at LHEAVX.GSFC.NASA.GOV (Tom Nolan)
Subject: Cheap 5-gal stainless steel pots


Hi, HBD. Just a quick note to say that Ames is selling
5-gallon stainless steel pots for $18.95 (advertised in
this week's sale flyer, Washington DC area). I have no
idea of the quality. A friend just bought one, and I
suggested that he pay attention to the handles when
he first lifts it full of water.

Tom

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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1992 12:17 PST
From: Fred Condo <CONDOF at CGSVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU>
Subject: Residual malt sweetness in Continental lager

I finally had my first taste of Pilsner Urquell last night, and I very
nearly saw God. I think our beer community should start a letter 
writing campaign to Vaclav Havel, President of Czechoslovakia, urging
him to protect that national and global treasure from a takeover
by a major brewing giant.

On to the main point. Continental lagers like Pilsner Urquell have 
a wonderful malt sweetness that slowly fades on the tongue, yielding
at last to the residual bitterness of the hops. It's a great sensory
delight. I brew in warm Southern California, so I have done only
ales (and Common Beers) in the 3 years I've been brewing. The only
thing I've made that comes close to having this aftertaste profile
is my porter recipe, which involves 2 pounds of 60L Crystal malt for
a 5-gallon batch.

What is the characteristic malt that gives Continetal Lager this
wonderful feature?

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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 92 12:38:20 PDT
From: tomge at microsoft.com

>From HBD #841, Scott Benton asks:

>I'd like to brew an Italian beer for a family reunion this summer.  Does 

>anyone have any recipes?  Does such a thing exist?

Well I have a Moretti Amber Lager style in lager.  Tasts I have taken
while doing SG tests are pretty good.  Age should make it better.
Here goes:

OG  1056
FG  1022

3/4 lb Crystal
3/4    Munich
6.5    IREK Munich Amber extract syrup
1.5 oz Cascade 60 min boil
1 oz   Hallertauer, steep 5-min before sparge
Wyeast 2206 Bavarian
1 tsp  Gypsum
1 tsp  Irish Moss

All malt boiled for an hour.  I started a yeast culture in 22oz 
champange bottle to kick start the brew.  Pitched at 83 degrees F and by 
morning it was at 50 degrees in the garage.  It is now sitting in a
spare refer at 40 degrees.  Unfortunately I left the brew on the 
its trub for 3 weeks before becoming enlightened about the nastiness
that can introduce.  I must admit it has a bit of off-odor.  No idea
if this is normal or not.

If anyone does this brew I would like to compare notes.

Tom Gemmell


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Date: Sat, 14 Mar 92 13:06:19 EST
From: Pierre Charles Jelenc <pcj1 at cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>
Subject: Red Star

I happened to read Steve Stroud's recent posting on Red Star ale yeast
just as I was preparing a batch of YPD plates, so I decided to plate
some and have a look for myself. I suspended about 1/4 tsp of the yeast
in a little cold water, let it rehydrate 10 min, and streaked for single
colonies.

The result is that out of about 1000 single colonies I found three
unmistakable bacterial ones, one doubtful, and the rest clearly yeasts.
Bacterial contamination does not thus appear terribly large (at least
for aerobic and facultative-aerobic bacteria able to grow on YPD).  On
the other hand, of the yeast colonies some 40% were very small,
presumably "petite" respiratory mutants, although I cannot exclude that
some are slow-growing non-saccharomyces.

I picked a couple of healthy, vigorous colonies, restreaked them, and so
far they appear to breed true, without new petite mutants.

Pierre


Pierre Jelenc                        pcj1 at cunixf.cc.columbia.edu
Columbia University

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Date:         Sat, 14 Mar 92 21:02:43 EST
From: Heather Godsey <GODSEYHM%DUVM.BITNET at pucc.Princeton.EDU>
Subject:      Investing


does anybody out there in homebrew land know of any companies that are
publicly traded and deal with the homebrew trade??
      thanks in advance-

                     Joe Uknalis

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Date: Sun, 15 Mar 92 18:31:13 EST
From: orgasm!davevi at uunet.UU.NET (David Van Iderstine)
Subject: Spiced Ale recipe

This is a composite recipe, designed to mimick Harpoon's latest Winter
Warmer offering.  I started with the spice list for Harpoon's Winter
Warmer, as published in the Beer News (or whatever that fine newsprint
rag found in various lobbies is called).

Armed with the spice list, I searched all my HBD back-issues for each
spice. Whenever I found one of the spices being used, I looked for its
relative weight as compared to all other ingredients in that particular
recipe. By doing this for all the spices listed below, I arrived at a
statistical "average" for the relative concentrations of all of them
together. So maybe I should call this "Statistician's Delight"?

Well, a well-respected (I think) beer judge (who shall remain nameless,
but claims to be the "Fastest Homebrewer"-hint,hint) tasted it and
thought it a very good match to the '91 Winter Warmer of Harpoon. Oh
Swoon! He even asked for the recipe! Double Swoon!  So, I seem to have
gotten it right. He suggested I post it, so here it is. I personally
LOVE the stuff, and will kill it (I'm sure) in record time. I'm partial
to spiced ales anyway, and tend to drink them all year long, which
means I have to make my own for 3/4's of the year!

Thanks to all the spice-brewers on HBD, from whom I drew my data. Maybe
this proves that composite recipes work well? Does that mean that,
armed with enough recipes, all other recipes possible can be derived
from them? That, and a roomful of typing monkeys?

- ----------------------

BEER NAME:  Ersatz Harpoon 1991 Winter Warmer       BREW DATE:    08-Feb-92

1.058 <STARTING GRAVITY  1.014 <FINISHING GRAVITY   5.95% <ALCOHOL CONTENT

				 RECIPE
6 lbs.      Laaglander Amber DME                    extract
1/2 oz.     Black Patent malt                       grain
12 oz.      Crystal malt                            grain
8 oz.       Munich malt                             grain
1.5 oz.     Chocolate malt                          grain
1 lb.       Honey (added w/extract)
1 oz.       Clusters pellets (6.5->7.5)             boiling hops
1 oz.       Williamette pellets                     aromatics
	    Wyeast British (#1098)                  yeast
0.5 tsp.    powdered nutmeg (8 min. from end)       other
1.5 tsp.    powdered cinnamon (8 min. from end)     other
0.5 tsp.    powdered clove (8 min. from end)        other
1 tsp.      vanilla (5 min. from end)               other
1 Tbsp.                                             gypsum
1 Tbsp.     10 minutes from end of boil.            Irish Moss
3/4 cup                                             Corn Sugar

TIME / DATE                    PROCEDURE
   01:15 PM Put water on to boil. Added gypsum.
   01:15 PM Added grains in boiling bag.
   02:10 PM Boil began. Removed grains. Added extract.
   02:25 PM Hot break. Bittering hops added.
   03:22 PM Heat off. Begin immersion chilling. Aromatic hops in.
   03:45 PM Wort at 80. Sparged hops. Added yeast. Rolled carboy.

  16-Feb-92 Siphoned to 2nd carboy. Added 1 gal. to fill carboy, since 
	    underfilled  at  start. Tried some and it's ready to drink now! 
	    Spices are noticable, but subtle. Good spice balance.
  29-Feb-92 Racked again. Second Gravity reading. Added corn sugar, 
	    bottled.

- ----------------

p.s.-This is the way my recipes come out of Lotus 1-2-3. I have a
"blank" template, w/all procedure steps, ingredients types, headers,
formats, alcohol calculation (from S.G. & F.G.), etc. already filled
in. I just type in name, date, times, & amounts & types of ingredients
and save it. No wort-soaked paper and lost recipes for me anymore!


===========================================================================
== Dave Van Iderstine                           Senior Software Engineer ==
==                   Xerox Imaging Systems, Inc.                         ==
== UUCP: uunet!pharlap!orgasm!davevi        davevi at pharlap.com :INTERNET ==
==-----------------------------------------------------------------------==
== "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate." ==
===========================================================================


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #844, 03/16/92