FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  re: English Bitters--Brewing Beers like Young's they make (John Hartman)
  Need 906 and 907. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  English Bitter (Andy Phillips)
  Re: CAMRA _Good Beer Guide_ availability (James Paschetto)
  Hops, Aeration (Ron Karwoski)
  Lag Time (Tom Riddle)
  Homebrew Digest #909 (June 24, 1992) (Bob_Konigsberg)
  Brazilian beers (Ed Westemeier)
  The New England Beer Club (Bob Gorman)
  sdf (korz)
  Pubs in Brussels, Belgium (GORDONSE)
  Re: Pearled Barley (Larry Barello)
  August Schell Pilsner & Export (Terry Peterson)
  FWD: American Classic DME (Donald P Perley)
  mash/lauter-tuns; cylindrical or rectangular? (lrj)
  hops bugs, copper&vinegar (Russ Gelinas)
  Chillers, extract beers, & hopbacks (Kinney Baughman)
  Re: Rocky Raccoon Ale (Kevin V Martin)
  Traquair house ale from Micah Millspaw (BOB JONES)
  Bad Taste... (100)


Send articles for publication to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Archives _were_ available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu
(Stay tuned for info on a new archive site)
**Please do not send me requests for back issues!**
**For Cat's Meow information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu**


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 11:50:53 PDT
From: hartman at varian.varian.com (John Hartman)
Subject: re: English Bitters--Brewing Beers like Young's they make

This recent discussion prompts to give further details of my trip.  I
spoke at length with two of the five brewers at Young's Brewery in
London.  They definitely qualify as "lupulophobic".  I describe what I
learned about their ales below...

They make a number of cask ales, some bottled ales, and a couple of
lagers.  My focus was on their ales and does not apply to their lagers.
In particular I was interested in Young's Special cask-conditioned ale.
As this information was given to me in the tasting room after the tour, my
focus did eventually become blurred and my arm did eventually become
tired.  While tasting you see, I was forced to fill my own pints via hand
pump;-)  Also I didn't want to pry (I just wanted to know everything:-)).
Consequently, the information I do have is incomplete and not well
organized--sorry.  On the other the hand, what I did learn came straight
from the brewers, who were very enthusiastic and forthcoming, so I assume
it's accurate.  If I wasn't sure about what I remembered I have noted so
in parentheses...

All of their grists are "approximately the same".  They use "only the
finest ingredients they can find".  The variety of malt is Maris-Otter. I
have a small sample of crystal that appears to be about 20 or 40
lovibond.  Some flaked barley is also used for head retention.  A certain
amount of brewing sugar is used.  I don't know how much nor in which
beers.  Contrary to what is printed in the "The Real Ale Drinker's
Almanac", Young's does not use torrefied wheat in any of their brewing.
In general I was disappointed with the accuracy of the information found
in the almanac.  Let the brewer beware that the ingredients they list have
little in common with what in reality Young's uses.  Oh well.

Young's Special draught should not be confused with the bottled Special
London Ale sold here in the US.  The draught bitter has an OG of ~ 36,
draught special has an OG of ~ 46, and the bottled Special London Ale is ~
66 OG.  I don't know what IBU levels are used for the beers, but they do
use a single addition of Fuggles in the kettle at the beginning of the
boil.  And now we come to the issue of finish hops.  The draught bitter is
(I believe) dry-hopped with (I believe) East Kent Goldings.  The bottled
Special London Ale is dry-hopped with East Kent Goldings.  The draught
special is dry-hopped with the Target variety in plug form.  The box
called them pellets, but they were in fact 1/2 oz. plugs as we know them
here in the states.  For each 36 Imperial Gal cask (43 US Gal.) they use a
mere 2 oz. of Target!  I was embarassed to tell them how much I use and
for a brief moment considered prevarication (lying, that is).  When I
told them that I usaully use about 1 to 2 oz. pe!  r 5 US Gal., there was
no uncerta

Young's only started dry-hopping about two years ago.  The owner and most
of the brewers were not interested in trying it, but once they had, they
decided to make the change.  I suspect the economy of dry-hopping, i.e.,
more aroma at less cost, played a part in that decision.

Their beers ferment in open primaries for seven days.  They are then
transferred to secondary for seven more days.  Then the beer is placed in
SS casks.  It is at this point the beer is dry-hopped and fined with
Isinglass powder.  In a few days the draught is drayed (delivered by
horse-drawn cart) to their local tied houses.  Finally after a few more
days in the pub cellar it's served to the many patrons who happily slake
their thirst.  The beers are never primed or krausened.  Their yeast
strain is a slow finisher which allows them to develop a light level of
carbonation in the cask without priming.  I have since tried this and it
works quite well.  Also it makes brewing that much easier since I don't
have to mess with gyle or corn sugar.  They do have a kegging and bottling
operation which (I believe) force-carbonates those products.  I asked for
an opinion on our weighty matter of whether to skim the krausen or use a
blow-off tube vs. not skimming.  They don't skim per se!  , but do employ
some technique wh

I hadn't heard of Target, so I enquired.  The Target variety is a
decendant of EKG.  It is a 10-12% hi-alpha, hi-aroma version that I do not
believe is available here.  I have since called Dave Wills of Freshops to
see if he carries them.  He said this year he ordered 100lbs of imported
EKG and sold them quickly even though he didn't advertize their
availability.  He plans on ordering more and so I told him to consider the
Target variety.  He will, depending on the interest level.  If you would
like to use this hop as well perhaps you might call Dave an express you
interest.  Freshops' number is 1-503-929-2736.  I have no affliation with
Freshops other than buying lots o' hops from them.  If you know where one
may obtain Target here, let me know.

As an aside which has nothing to do with how they brew their beers, the
owner related to me that several years ago when Fritz Maytag was reviving
the Anchor Brewery here in SF he visited Young's for two weeks.  He took
back with him recipes and knowledge gained at the Young's brewerery.  So
maybe I'm on the right track...  That is all.

Cheers,
John  hartman at varian.varian.com

Return to table of contents


Date: 24 Jun 92 09:33:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Need 906 and 907.

My net connection seems to have taken a vacation for issues 906 and 907.  
Could some very kind and understanding soul slip those to me?  Thank you 
muchly.

Dan Graham


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 14:34 GMT
From: Andy Phillips <PHILLIPSA at LARS.AFRC.AC.UK>
Subject: English Bitter

While it is true that the term "bitter" in England covers a wide
range of beers, I do think that as a homebrewer (as opposed to a
surveyor of commercial brews) it is possible to define a narrower
range which could be defined as your basic "best bitter". This basic
recipe can then be supplemented/substituted with different malts,
mashing techniques, hops etc to produce the whole spectrum of bitters
found across the UK. I'm currently in the middle of testing empirically 
the effect of these additions of the basic recipe to gauge the effect 
on the final beer.

My basic recipe for 5 (UK) galls (22.5 litres; 6.25 US galls?) 
consists of (from memory):

7-8 lbs crushed pale malt
0.5 lb crushed crystal malt
mashed in 3 galls boiled water (+ 1 tsp CaSO4) 66C for 3hrs (or overnight)
Sparged to 4.5 galls
Boiled 1.5 hrs with 1 tsp Irish Moss
3oz Goldings for 60 min
0.5oz  "      "  10min
0.5oz  "      "  soaked at end of boil
Cooled with immersion chiller, racked and aerated: OG 42-48
Pitched with Edme yeast (starter from dried yeast)
Racked into secondary after 4 days (SG=20)
Fine if neccesary (gelatin or Polyclar)
Dry-hopped with 0.25oz Goldings in secondary.
Barrelled after 2 weeks, primed with 3oz malt extract.

This comes out tasting something like draught Bass, or Fuller's London Pride.

To this recipe I add adjunts such as amber malt, chocolate malt, roast
barley, Fuggles instead of Goldings, etc etc to yield what looks and
tastes a very different beer, but has 90-95% identical ingredients. For
example, my last batch was a (misconceived) attempt to brew Theakston's
Old Peculier. I thought I detected some wheat malt in the commercial brew, 
so my recipe was changed to:
7lb pale malt
2lb wheat malt
4oz chocolate malt (for the reddish hue!)
4oz roast barley
4 oz Fuggles hops, timings as above
Treacle to prime (= Molasses)

The result: a good beer, with a deep malty taste, a dense, lasting head and a 
wonderful reddish-black colour - but otherwise totally unlike OP. So - 
back to the drawing board...

P.S. My last batch of "basic bitter" was an accidental experiment in
altered mashing conditions: I let the temperature rise to 75C in the
first 30 minutes, so although I got a good conversion, a lot of this
was unfermentable (due to excessive destruction of the beta amylase,
which produces maltose from dextrins). So the starting gravity was 1.048,
but finished at 1.020. As Conn Copas noted in HBD 909, it is thus possible
to produce a relatively low alcohol beer which doesn't taste too weak. In fact,
it's rather good, IMHO.....

Andy Phillips

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 10:00:43 -0400
From: jp07 at gte.com (James Paschetto)
Subject: Re: CAMRA _Good Beer Guide_ availability


In HBD #908, Philip Seitz asked about availability of CAMRA's _Good Beer
Guide_ in the US.  I recently bought a book titled _The Best Pubs of Great
Britain, 1987-88_ from a mail-order house.  I don't have the book in front
of me to check, but it appears to be a re-publication of the CAMRA guide
under a "generic" name--CAMRA is mentioned throughout, the association is
explained, and there is a CAMRA membership form in the back.  The first
half of the book talks about beer in general and details Britain's breweries
and their products.  The back half lists the "real ale" pubs by county and
town, with brief descriptions.  There are also pages of maps showing the pub
locations. (Does this sound like the CAMRA guide, Philip?)
I got it from: Edward Hamilton, Bookseller
               Falls Church, CT  06031-5000
               (There's no phone #, I guess it's mail only.)
It's order #765317, _The Best Pubs of Great Britain_; $1.95 + $3.00 (shipping).
(I should say that I have no affiliation with this guy; it's just where I
bought the book.)
NOTE: This is the 1987-88 guide. It's NOT the most recent!

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 09:09:56 CDT
From: rak at mayo.EDU (Ron Karwoski)
Subject: Hops, Aeration

Greetings!

 My hops have a couple of problems. I have only two plant growing
and I fear I may have lost them for the year. The tops of both plants
have been lost. On one, a few days of wicked storms weakened the plant
where it latched on to the twine I have hanging from a tree. I'll make
the twine tighter. I noticed the second top (just the top inch) was missing
about a week later and closer inspection revealed an army of ANTS! marching
up and down the twine. My question: Will these tops come back and the plants
resume climbing or are they stuck for the year? How do I get rid of the
ANTS!? Soap?

On another note, I too have wondered about wort chillers for extract or
partial mash batches. I know aeration of hot wort is a problem. My
method is to put the strainer into the pot after boiling and then
siphon the hot wort into the cold water in the carboy. I then top off
the carboy by sparging cold water through the hops left in the pot.
I know cold water sparging doesn't get me much, but are there any other
problems with this method? On my first partial mash last week there
was a tremendous cold break.

One other note. I'll be in London in late August for a week, staying in
the West End. Any pub or beer suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Ron Karwoski
rak at mayo.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 10:15:50 -0400
From: tom at eng.umd.edu (Tom Riddle)
Subject: Lag Time


In HBD #909 Greg Winters writes:

>I just pitch in a quart or so of wyeast starter. I get great
>results with only 2-3 hours lag time 

2 - 3 HOURS ??!!

My technique is similar, but the shortest lag time I've had from a 
Wyeast starter is ~18hrs.  Maybe my starter is too small, usually ~12oz,
or maybe we measure lag time differently.  Could you explain in more
detail your procedure for preparing a starter ?


Tom Riddle
tom at eng.umd.edu

PS. I tried mailing this directly to Greg, but it bounced.  If he could 
reply directly to me we can keep this off line unless others are interested.



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 08:05 PDT
From: Bob_Konigsberg at 3mail.3com.com
Subject: Homebrew Digest #909 (June 24, 1992)

I've been using an immersion chiller for a while now, and I don't feel 
that they're too hard to clean.

Prior to use, I run hot tap water (~180 F) through it from the tap for 
about a minute (full 60 seconds) after it's hot at the far end at a 
fairly high flow rate.  Then I fill it (with a funnel) with a 
Chlorinated TSP solution, and let it sit in there for about 30 minutes.  
Then the hot water rinse is repeated again for another full minute.
The chiller is then stored with the copper tube left full of water.

I always check the first rinse water out of the tubing (smell, then 
taste) prior to the full first hot water rinse, and I've found no 
problems with it.  A friend goes a little further and uses live steam 
from a pressure cooker to really sterilize the inside of the copper 
tubing.  He's had no problems either.

On the rubber hose surrounding the tubing, I recommend the use of a hot-
water rated hose.

I've made up a diagram and condensed instructions for a friend or two 
for making one of these, and since it's done, anybody who wants a copy 
can send me a self-addressed stamped envelope, and I'll send it back out 
with a copy of the instructions.  Only 1 stamp, since it's only 1 page.  

Send the envelope to:
Bob Konigsberg
418 San Benito Ave.
Los Gatos, CA 95030-9305




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 09:39:38 EDT
From: homebrew at tso.uc.EDU (Ed Westemeier)
Subject: Brazilian beers

Russ Gelinas writes:
 
>had a Cerpa pilsner from Brazil.  Came in a colorful can.
>It's an eastern European style pilsner, very 
>similar in flavor/aroma/color to Budvar,
>or maybe even the Czech version of Pilsner Urquell.
>A nice beer.
>I was told that the "generic" beer in Brazil is 
>better than generic US Budmiloors.  Oddly,
>Xingu lager was not to be found, and the locals 
>had not even heard of it.
 
Having lived in Brazil 83-87, I can vouch for the fact that
the average Brazilian beer is far better than the average US
beer.  More flavor (both malt and hop) and generally more
character.
 
My personal favorite is Antarctica (comes in big 0.6 liter
bottles).  Other favorites were Cerpa and, of course, Xingu.
Brahma, although one of the biggest sellers in the world, is
generally no better than Miller.
 
By the way, I find a lot of confusion in this country about
the pronunciation of Xingu.  ItUs the name of an Indian tribe, 
also a major river, and the proper way to say it is:  sheen-GOO.
 
One funny quirk of Brazilians is that they will usually order
whatever beer is coldest (Jackson comments on this).  They
recognize that itUs silly, but still often ask for their beer
Restupidamente geladaS (stupidly cold).
 
Be aware that the Brazilian beer exported in cans is NOT the
same as what they drink there in bottles.  It doesnUt travel
well at all.  The fact that you can often get a good can of
Brazilian beer here in the US is an indication of just how
good it is down there, fresh in the bottle!

- -- Ed

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1992 12:26:57 EDT
From: bob at rsi.com (Bob Gorman)
Subject: The New England Beer Club

Hi All,

It's been a while since the NEBC list started so I thought I would do a
repost for any new HBD members:


                       PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT

I would like to publicly announce the creation of a new electronic
mailing list.  This new list was created for the promotion of beer
related activities in the North East.  This is not a competitive
list to the _Home_Brew_Digest_ and is not for direct discussions
of homebrewing issues.

The charter of this list is to promote homebrew clubs, homebrew
competitions, tasting, picnics, pub crawls, brewpubs, breweries,
homebrew suppliers and any other organization, news or activity
related to beer in the New England area.

So it is with great pleasure that I announce:

                    THE NEW ENGLAND BEER CLUB

This list is an un-moderated public forum and may be joined by
anyone (except Jack Schmidling).  It is currently distributed in
digest format twice daily.

To subscribe: beer-request@ rsi.com -or- uunet!semantic!beer-request
To post:              beer at rsi.com -or- uunet!semantic!beer

On subscription please include your Full Name and Email Address
in the message text.

Brought to you by:
                      The Wort Processors
                  Boston's Oldest Brewing Club

Cheers,

 -- Bob Gorman          bob at rsi.com          uunet!semantic!bob --

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 11:53 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: sdf

Dr. John writes:
>perpetrators will be a boon to dealing with them.  You can knock back many
>types of soft-bodied critters (such as aphids) pretty handily with a soap
>spray.  If memory serves, and I'm not sure it does exactly, a 1% solution
>is adequate.  You can go to the trouble of buying one of the horticultural
>products (i.e. Safers) but plain old Ivory Liquid dish soap will do the job.

Last year I tried Safer(tm) for the first half of the season and Diazinon
for the second.  Whatever was eating my hop leaves last year was not
affected by either.  This year I used Sevin and although I have some holes
in many of the leaves, the plants are healthy and happy.  Given that I'm
about 25 miles (as the ladybug flies) from John the HopDevil, I suspect
we may have similar problems.  I brought sample leaves with me to the
Conference and had some experts (like Vern) look at them, who immediately
said: APHIDS.  Unless I wasn't using enough Safer and the Diazinon was
too late, I would tend to stick to the Sevin.  I tried to find ladybugs
in all the stores around, but could not find any.  If anyone in the
Chicago area knows of a store that has ladybugs for sale (or for that
matter, anyone who knows of a store that will ship), please send me email.

Steve writes:
>I'm an extract brewer (with occasional specialty grains), on my 16th
>batch in about 1 year.  Will a wort chiller help my brew?

>My current procedure is to boil only about 2 gallons of wort (from
>extract/H20), adding hops/grains as necessary, and then dumping this
>into the fermenter with 2-3 gallons of cold H20.  The temperature drops
>from boiling to pitching temperature instantly, and I can pitch right
>away.  There's no "cold break" that I can notice with this method;
>I imagine the trub eventually precipitates out into the primary
>yeast cake.

Yes it will.  You've already mentioned that you don't get a cold break.
Some of what would be cold break does precipitate out, some just throws
a haze when you chill your beer (heard of "cold-filtered?").

Chuck writes:
>    1. Aeration of wort. Why should I do it and how.

Yeast first goes through respiration then begins fermentation.  During
respiration, it takes up oxygen it uses later.  This oxygen is necessary
for good yeast health.  Oxygen-deficient yeast can lead to stuck fermentations,
low alcohol tolerance and (correct me if I'm wrong, someone) increased
diacetyl production (or is it decreased diacetyl reduction?).  Aeration
should be done on the wort after it has cooled below 80F so that oxidation
is reduced.  I simply cool with an immersion chiller (I used to do partial
boils and then chill with boiled cooled icewater in the kettle) and then
pour from a great height (12 - 18 inches) into a funnel in the top of
the glass carboy to aerate.

>    2. Does anyone have any experience or opinion about the malt extracts
>       from North Western.

Yes.  They are tasty and don't produce too much hot break, but are pretty
high in dextrins and unfermentable sugars which means you will tend to
get higher FG, sweeter beers (how sweet, depends on how attenuative
your yeast is -- I use primarily Wyeast #1028 and #1056 and occasionally
#1084, Belgian Ale and Bavarian Lager (I forget the #'s).  I've found
that #1056 and #1028 are on the less-attenuative side as are the Belgian
and Bavarian.  I've found #1084 to be more attenuative than most.).

Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: 24 Jun 1992 13:11:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: GORDONSE at iris.uncg.edu
Subject: Pubs in Brussels, Belgium

I'm going to a conference in Brussels, Belgium in July
and would be interested knowing about pubs which have good
brew (and good food and good music). 
Thanks for any help you can give.
Sharon Gordon
GORDONSE at UNCG.BITNET
GORDONSE at IRIS.UNCG.EDU

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 10:04:53 PDT
From: polstra!larryba at uunet.UU.NET (Larry Barello)
Subject: Re: Pearled Barley

Chris Estes writes:
>...
>If this is just regular barley I've used it with neutral results.  I was
>struck by the same thought while wandering through the grocery store and
>picked up a 2 lb bag of the stuff.  I've used as much as a 1/2 lb in my
>brews; I'm not sure if it added or detracted very much.  I generally
>grind it in my trusty coffee grinder and add like a specialty malt.
>
>My feeling on this is that I'm not doing it exactly right.  I'm an extract

Pearled barley is not cooked.  Like steel cut oats, you need to cook it 
first to gelatinize the starch (i.e. make it soluble in water so the 
mash enzymes can get to it).  Rolled or Flaked barley or oats are already
pre-cooked by the rolling process and can be added to a mash as is.  Extract
brews won't get any appreciable fermentables from any of these products 
unless there are enzymes present (DME).  There are other things that extract
and grain brewers will get from plain grains.  Beta-glucans are one of them.
I believe Beta-glucans will add to wort viscosity.

I have used 8oz of rolled barley in light lagers using single step infusion
mashing with no appearent chill haze.  I have used 2lb of rolled barley and
roast barley in a stout and it cleared just fine (hard to tell, of course).

The use of rolled barley or oats is kind of a "head" insurance.

Cheers!

 - Larry Barello

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 12:59:15 -0600
From: terrype at itx.isc.com (Terry Peterson)
Subject: August Schell Pilsner & Export


You might think a brewery that's been around since the 1800's would have
enough confidence in their product to leave the recipe alone, but as
Jeff Frane discusses in #909:

>When the AS Pilsner appeared at the Oregon Brewers Festival on
>draught about 3 years ago, it blew me away: an extraordinarily hoppy
>beer and my favorite from the festival.  But the bottle version is
>considerably more timid; the local distributor, in fact, is convinced
>that AS is bottling their real pilsner as their Export and the Export in
>the Pilsner bottles.

My brewing partner and I USED to drink lots of AS Pilsner. In fact, it
was our favorite pilsner beer.  The bottled version definitely favored
malt over hops, but had enough hops to make it a terriffic pilsner beer.
Unfortunately, our distribution channels began receiving twist off
bottles of non-bottle conditioned beer (of some sort) with a new label.
I agree with Jeff's distributor at least enough to say that the new "Pils" 
is NOT the same beer we used to drink.  I've also had the Export and,
although it's better than the Pils, I don't like it as well as their
previous product.  The Export tastes like an ale to me and so I can't
believe it is their pilsner in disguise.

I'm sad to say I can't support the old brewery any more.  If they'd at
least continued bottle conditioning their beer the yeast would have had
some value, assuming they didn't change that too.  I've been meaning to
write AS a letter, but haven't done it yet.  I wonder if they'd give me
some hints so I could try to recreate their older pilsner recipe?

Terry

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 14:18:10 EDT
From: perley at easygoer.crd.ge.com (Donald P Perley)
Subject: FWD: American Classic DME

> ...Our stuff is excellent, blah blah blah ... "and the worts are
>concentrated using the most technologically advanced, high vacuum
>distillation process, assuring you" blah, blah, blah ...
>
>   ....
>
>Has anybody got any theories as to what effects (and why) this
>high-vac distillation will have on the body and clarity of the
>finished beer?  Anybody tried this stuff? It's not just American
>Eagle under a different name, is it?

I think that MOST malt extracts are concentrated by boiling under a 
vacuum.  Any that are called "DME" (diastatic malt extract) have to 
be so they can lower the boiling point to a temperature which won't
destroy the enzymes.

As to the value of reduced trub.. even neglecting any taste effects,
you at least end up with more beer.


 -don perley

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 14:57:02 -0400
From: lrj at helios.TN.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: mash/lauter-tuns; cylindrical or rectangular?



	  It's time to have a go at doing all-grain beers.  The one
	item I still need to come up with is something for mashing and
	sparging.  I currently plan to brew in 5 gallon batches, and
	will probably stay with that for now.  I've gone through a lot
	of HBD back issues, but couldn't find any concrete information.

	  I think that my best investment for the moment would be to
	purchase either a 5 gallon cylindrical cooler or a rectangular
	picnic cooler (~54 qt.).  Each would appear to have its
	advantages and disadvantages.

	  A 5 gal. cylindrical cooler would cost approximately $30.  I
	could build a slotted-pipe setup, or use some sort of vegtable
	steamer or collander.  The advantage is that I would have a
	deeper grain bed while sparging; the disadvantage is that I
	would be more limited on how much grain I could use.  What do
	people find is the limit on the amount of grain in these?

	  The cheaper route seems like the 48 or 54 qt. rectangular
	cooler, as they're available for around $20 or so right now.
	I would put together some sort of forked, slotted-pipe
	arrangement with this system.  Advantage: no problems with
	running into space limitations if I want to brew a stronger
	brew.  The apparent disadvantage is that I'd have a lower
	extraction efficiency, especially with smaller quantities of
	grains.

	  I'd appreciate suggestions from people on which would be a
	better investment and why.  Thanks!

- -- Lew

Return to table of contents


Date:    Wed, 24 Jun 1992 16:27:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: hops bugs, copper&vinegar

  Those bugs that are eating John Hop-devil's hops are likely to be
Japanese Beetles.  They can devastate your plants.  I use a Rotenone
spray (you know, mix the stuff up with water, attach the dispenser to your
garden hose, and spray the plants enough so there is some white residue when
it dries).  It's helped keep them away, but still some of the plant gets 
eaten.  I think the Bag-A-Bug things attract beetles as much as they catch 
them.  I haven't used one this year, and there are a lot less beetles.  It 
could be the cool weather, though.  It's also a good idea to kill any of the 
beetles you see.  Early morning and at night are good times because they're 
slower.  Last year the beetles here in NH mostly went away after about a 
month, about the middle of July, so it's only an early summer pestilence.
If they get really bad, I might cover my plants in bird netting (the kind
used on fruit trees) until the JB season passes.

   Mike Z. with the oily counterflow chiller:  Run a vinegar/water solution
through the copper to clean it.  It worked *really* well on my immersion
version.

Russ

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1992 16:55 EDT
From: Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Chillers, extract beers, & hopbacks

>Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU> writes in the HBD:
>>
>> But whatever the case, use one or the other.  Wort-chillers are
>> essential to any homebrewery.

>I'm an extract brewer (with occasional specialty grains), on my 16th
>batch in about 1 year.  Will a wort chiller help my brew?

>My current procedure is to boil only about 2 gallons of wort (from
>extract/H20), adding hops/grains as necessary, and then dumping this
>into the fermenter with 2-3 gallons of cold H20.  

If this is what you're doing then no, they aren't essential.  But this 
does bring up the issue of whether or not one should boil just 2 
gallons of wort and dump it into 3 gallons of cold water.  Sure it 
works.  But I think conventional wisdom is that you're more likely to 
brew a better extract beer by reconstituting the wort, that is, by 
bringing the wort back up to 5 gallons.  By reconstituting the wort 
you're beginning to treat the extract more like grain-sparged wort.  
Following Fred Eckhardt here, extract beers are already a "cheat", if 
you will.  In order to approach the quality of scratch beer, one 
should treat extract beers, as much as possible, as if they were 
scratch beers.  Therefore one should attempt to (1) reconstitute the 
wort, (2) use fresh hops, and (3) use at least some specialty grains, 
especially crystal malt. 

Because of these concerns, I recommend that beginning brewers get a 6 
or 7 gallon boiling pot as soon as possible.  When deciding on 
recipes, don't get bent out of shape trying to find a can of Northern 
Nowhere Amber Malt Extract.  Cue in on the fact that you need amber 
malt extract and make your own.  Amber malt is just pale malt with 
some crystal malt added to it.  If you buy only pale malt extract, you 
can make your own amber or dark extract with ease.  Here are some 
rules of thumb.  Adjust quantities according to taste.  Assume 5 
gallons of beer. 

Amber Malt       1-2 cups of crystal malt.  2 cups will add a 
                 significant sweetness to the beer.  You will barely 
                 be able to taste 1 cup but you WILL taste it.

Dark Malt        At least 1 cup of crystal and 1/2 to 1 cup chocolate 
                 malt for a decently strong chocolate/bock tasting
                 beer.  More chocolate and crystal for porter-ish
                 dark beer.

My other advice is to skip extract recipes altogether and look at the 
all-grain ones, substituting 2 cans of pale malt extract for 8-10 
pounds of pale malt and adding specialty grains as recommended in the 
recipe.  Treat the specialty grains as follows: 

Grind the grains and place them in a mesh bag and throw them into the 
boiler as the water comes to a boil.  Lift and plunge the grains into 
the boiler water as often as you wish to simulate a sparging action.  
When the water reaches 170 or 180 degrees F., toss the grains.

When the water comes to boil, cut off the heat source, add the pale 
malt extract, stir into solution, then resume heating.  As the wort 
comes to a boil a fine, creamy head will form on the surface of the 
wort.  Skim this creamy head and you'll never suffer from boil-over 
again.  The head is composed mostly of proteins that will later form a 
big protein bubble when steam escapes from the liquid at the onset of 
the boil.  The dreaded boilover!!  Haven't you noticed how boilover 
only occurs in the split second between the last time you looked at 
your non-boiling wort and the horrified realization that it's already 
started boiling?!

And, of course, hop as advised with fresh hops, plugs or pellets.

Assuming this is the way you make extract beers then (and now we're 
back to the original question...whew!) you should be using a wort 
chiller because you have 5 gallons of beer to cool down in a hurry.  
And this was what I was assuming when I said wort chillers were 
essential to any homebrewery.

Then Russ sed:

>Subject: Re: sterilizing counter-flow chillers

>This comes up every so often, but at caveat for those making or
>purchasing a counter-flow chiller.  Make sure the inside of the
>tubing is free of machining oils.  Chemical cleaning is not
>sufficient in many cases...requiring actual physical scouring
>of the inside of the tubing before you bend it into a coil.

>If you want to test your tubing for oils, swab a q-tip soaked
>in rubbing alcohol around the inside.  If it comes out dirty,
>you've got a problem....if not....no problem...

>Mike Zentner, who has tried to clean oil out by running 20
>batches of boiling water, rubbing alcohol, beer, bleach, soap water and
>even lysol through an already constructed chiller...to no avail.

The above is well worth mentioning.  Mike had a helluva time cleaning 
up some copper tubing he found or bought from somewhere.  At the same 
time, if you buy refrigeration grade copper tubing from a hardware 
store you shouldn't have the kinds of problems Mike had, at least I 
never have and I've made several hundred wort chillers.  It's my 
understanding that silicon oils are used in the extrusion of that kind 
of copper and are easily removed with several soaks in clorox or a 
couple siphonings through of boiling hot water laced with B-Brite or 
beer line cleaner.  Where did you get that copper tubing after all, 
Mike?

>And now, a homebrewing question.  Darryl Bock-man ;-) said he sanitizes
>his plastic with boiling water, reasoning that the heat will kill the
>nasties in any cracks.  I've been thinking of using a zapap lauter tun (bucket
>in a bucket) as a hop-back, but have been concerned about exposing my chilled
>wort to the plastic buckets.  But, if Darryl's assumption is true, then pouring
>the *hot* wort through the lauter-tun/hop-back would eliminate sanitation
>concerns about the plastic.  It would oxidize the wort, but at this stage it
>would mostly just darken it.  Correct me if I'm wrong on that.  I'd also be
>concerned about handling a brewpot full of hot wort, but I can imagine a way
>to be careful about that.  Am I forgetting anything?  Any holes in my thinking?

I just finished writing an article for the special issue of Zymurgy 
that describes how to make a hop-back that avoids the issue of 
oxidation when using a hop-back altogether.  I could post the article 
here in the HBD if anyone is interested and if Charlie P. doesn't 
mind.  But for the moment, suffice it to say that my hop-back design 
uses a mason jar connected inline between the boiler and a counter-
flow chiller.  The mason jar lid is drilled with two holes, each 
containing a length of copper tubing, the bottom of the outlet tube 
wrapped in the infamous copperwound pot scrubber in a fine mesh hop 
bag.  Stuff about 3/4 oz of the gummiest aromatic hops you can find 
into the jar and start a siphon.  The hot wort passes into the jar of 
hops, picks of the aromatics, leaves the jar and enters the wort 
chiller where it is immediately cooled down.  Having been cooled to 
water temperature, the hop aromatics aren't volatilized to the 
atmosphere and instead enter the wort where they belong.  The 
resulting beer will have the same kind of hop character we've all 
grown to know and love in Sierra Nevada Pale Ale or some of the ales 
made by Hart's Brewing Company in Washington state. 

And now for the new sig...

 ___  ---------------------------------------------------------- ___
|   |                   Kinney Baughman                         |   |
|   |            baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu                 |   |
 \ /                                                             \ /
  |        "Beer is my business and I'm late for work"            |
   ---------------------------------------------------------------

And to Steve Hamburg...

If YOU aren't Mendel then who the hell is Mendel?  

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 17:58:07 EDT
From: Kevin V Martin <kmartin at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: Rocky Raccoon Ale


Like Michael Gildner, I'm not able to ferment lagers.  Here's my version of 
Rocky Raccoon Ale:

     1 can   M&F Light Malt Extract (unhopped)
     3 lb.   Clover Honey
     2 oz.   Williamette hops (5.0 AAU's)
             Wyest London Liquid Ale yeast
     1/3 c   Clover Honey (priming)

The malt extract, honey, and 1 oz. of the hops were boiled in 3 gallons of 
water for 1 hour; the remainder of the hops were then added and steeped for 15
minutes.  The wort was passed through a strainer into a plastic primary and 
diluted to 5 gallons.  After reaching room temperature, the yeast was added. 
The intial SG was equal to 1.040.  After 6 days in the primary (60-65 deg.F) 
and 10 days in a glass secondary fermentor (60-65 deg.F) the final SG was equal
to 1.000.  The beer was then primed with honey and bottled.
After two weeks in the bottle, the carbonation had reached an acceptable level;
but the taste was a little green.  After another month the taste has mellowed 
out.  This beer is turning into a favorite of my friends who don't appreciate 
my usual heavy ales ;).  I enjoy because it has more taste and body than 
BudMillCors!

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1992 15:00 PDT
From: BOB JONES <BJONES at NOVAX.llnl.gov>
Subject: Traquair house ale from Micah Millspaw



	I noticed a posting about the scotch ale Traquair House. It is
my personal opinion that this is one of the best beers that I have ever
tasted, commercial or homebrewed! This amazing beer is available through
Merchant du Vin in Seattle, WA. but the price is very high. Since I 
like the stuff but its not realistic to buy, I made quite an effort 
to copy it. The effort has gained me a lot of experience and quite a 
few ribbons in scotch ale (wee heavy) competitions. So I will give you
all my best and closest to Traquair House recipe, do not make substitutes
with inferior ingredients or the ale will suffer, and use the same yeast
indicated for the same reasons.

this is for 5 gallons and is made from only the first runnings of the mash

18# british pale malt
4# british crystal malt
2# toasted malt (homemade in oven - 10 min.  at 350F)
4oz roast barley - in mash out only
1# chocolate malt - in mash out only
1 1\4oz centennial hops - 11.3 alpha for 75 min.
3\4oz tettnager hops - 4.8 alpha for 15 min.
1 tsp salt in boil
1 tsp gypsum in boil
irish moss last 30 min.

wyeast 1056 culture
OG 25B or 1100

mash  at  155F 1 1\2 hours collect first runnings no sparge
strike with 8 gallons  at  170F
mash out with 3 gallons  at  200F with chocolate and roast grains
collected 8 gallons boiled down to 5 gallons

                                      have fun 
                                         Micah Millspaw 6/24/92

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 8:29:22 EST
From: 781101 at redgum.ucnv.edu.au (100)
Subject: Bad Taste...

I'm a beginner at homebrewing, and so far I've only made lagers from
pre-packed kits. Every brew I've made has seemed to ferment out OK, but
The problem is just about every batch ends up having a bad taste in it.
It's hard to explain exactly what sort of taste is is - sort of
metallic. Does anyone know what could be causing this? I sterilise all
equipment thouroughly using sodium met. I was told that it could be from
using this chemical, but I haven't got a chance to try bleach yet.
  I was wondering whether it could be from light destroying the brew.
The best one we made was an English Ale, and we did it in an old tea
chest. This was the best tasting brew we have made. Could this be the
problem? It's not the water because I've used other types like
sterilised rainwater. Can anyone help?

Dave.
781101 at redgum.bcae.oz.au

Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #910, 06/25/92