FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Reminder: Digest Backlog (rdg)
  egs (Thomas D. Feller)
  Re: HBD 920 ("Dr. John")
  Re: Kegs and force carbonating beer (Larry Barello)
  Fridge thermostats (korz)
  re: seeking Heineken-like beer (Victor J Bartash +1 908 957 5633)
  Re: My jockeybox (korz)
  Am I 100? (Alan Edwards)
  Keg o-rings (korz)
  Here is a running count (Alan Edwards)
  Re: kegging (korz)
  Stainless Steel Brew Pots ("Jim Ellingson")
  PH, Giveaway (Jack Schmidling)
  Re: adjusting pH of sparge (korz)
  Frank Jones, then and now (James Dipalma)
  RE:  Strawberries, Pectic Enzyme ("CMD 2NDLT ALBERT W. TAYLOR ")
  partial mash questions... (whg)
  Maltmill Contest (GEOFF REEVES)
  Mendicino Brewing Company's 4th of July Picnic (GEOFF REEVES)
  Brewpubs in LA? (ronald)
  Friday afternoon ramblings (CCASTELL)
  Adding Body to Mead (GEOFF REEVES)
  There are 2 types of immersion chillers (GEOFF REEVES)
  New Mexico Brew Clubs (GEOFF REEVES)
  Hops question (...the shadow nose...)
  Belgian caramel malts (chris campanelli)
  SF Brewpubs & Maltmill (Ed Westemeier)
  FL, OH brewpubs; fruit sanitizing suggestion; maltmill (S94WELKER)
  Source for Stainless Brewpot (Steven Slover)
  re: unrefridgerated kegs (John Hartman)


Send articles for __publication__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Archives are available from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu
  (Send a HELP message there for instructions, etc.)
**Please do not send me requests for back issues!**
*********(They will be silenty discarded!)*********
**For Cat's Meow information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu**


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jul 92 12:41:46 MDT
From: rdg at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Subject: Reminder: Digest Backlog


Just a reminder: If you have submitted an article for publication,
don't worry if you don't see it here immediately. Articles are
put into the digest in the order they arrive.

Rob

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 10:25:12 PDT
From: thomasf at deschutes.ico.tek.com (Thomas D. Feller)
Subject: egs



As a fairly new keg user I thought I would add my $0.02 worth about kegs and 
kegging.

I now have 4 soda kegs and use them for both primary and secondary fermentation.
In two of the kegs I have short (~1 in) copper caps on the bottom of the pick-up
tubes, the caps keep me from pulling up alot of yeast from the bottom of the 
keg, these are my primary tanks. After three to five days in the primary I 
transfer to the secondary and let the beer ferment out. In both the primary and 
secordary I use blow off hoses.  I then prime with corn suger as usual and let 
it condition as needed. I have let stouts condition up to 6 months without any 
refrigeration. Kegs should work just like bottles, if properly sealed and 
unopened they can last for months with no problems.  If you want to force 
carbonation or counter-pressure bottle you must to have a refrigerator, the beer
must be cold (30-40 degF) in order the get the co2 into the beer. I just pick-up
a good used regfrigerator for $ 25, it is not pretty but work just fine.  Last 
winter I just kept my drinking kegs in the garage and they stayed about the 
right temperature for drinking but with the warmer weather this no longer works.
I do not filter my beer yet but  I would like to add this option, as I 
understand it is quite simple to construct a filter using a water type filter 
housing and 0.5 micron filter. There are a number of very good articles in 
Zymurgy about most of this stuff, if you anyone wants these e-mail me and I'll 
pass on the info. A last piont about tanks my first tank was a 2.5 lb tank and I
got two or three batches out of one fill, this included transfering, drinking 
and cleaning. I bought this tank used with a current hydro-test ( all co2 tanks 
must have current hydro-testing to be filled) for $ 30 for a fire e, I just got 
a 20 lb tank for $20 from a scrap guy but it must be hydro-test at a cost of 
about $20 before I can fill it. 

In short I love my kegs and my total cost so far I only have less than $ 150 in 
the whole set-up including the refrigerator.


Tom Feller

Return to table of contents


Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 92 14:19:37 EDT
From: "Dr. John" <JELJ at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Re: HBD 920


Greetings all,
  In #920 Craig Vandeventer asks about the need for adjusting the pH of sparge
water.
  Craig, this has, as I recall, been previously discussed on the digest, and
is also covered in some of the homebrewing books, Miller in particular.  The
basic reason for adjusting the pH of your sparge water is to avoid extracting
tannins from the malt husks, especially as you near the end of the sparge and
the pH of the naturally rises.  With a significant portion of dark roasted
malt in the grist this probably won't be a problem, but is definitely a
concern with paler beers.  The tannins, if extracted, will impart some rather
harsh and astringent notes to your beer.

  Also in #920, Phil Calvin DoD #242, asks a load of questions.  Among them
are: What is a cold break?  Hot break?
  This is something akin to beating a dead horse, given the extended
discussion that went on not too long ago.  Be that as it may, the short
answers are that hot break is the proteins which become insoluble during the
wort boil, the ones which make up the trub in the bottom of your kettle, and
cold break is the proteins that become insoluble during wort chilling, the
ones which end up in the bottom of your fermenter (assuming that you didn't
run the hot break through the chiller).  Since this we've been around the
block on this one several times recently, if anyone wants to pick nits on my
simple descriptions please do so via private e-mail.

  And lastly, also in #920, Bryan Gros asks about mashing specialty malts, and
about working with the various types of oats out there.
  Bryan, I think that if you ask two homebrewers about whether or not you
should mash specialty malts you will probably get at least three opinions.
For what its worth, my opinion is that if you are doing at least a partial
mash already, you should include the specialty malts in the mash.  Some of
these malts may still contain some starch, which the mash should convert.
Even when that isn't the case, I think that the end result is a better
marriage of malt flavors if the whole bill of goods is mashed together.  For
extract brews, with no mashing involved, you probably should just R,DW,HAH.
  As to the oats, Quaker oats (at least their oatmeal) are simply rolled oats
with a brand name.  I don't think that steel cut oats have been rolled, and
don't know what the hell milled oats are.  Any rolled oats, branded or
generic, can be added directly to your mash as their starch has already been
gelatinized by the rolling process.  With the steel cut oats you should
probably cook them first to gelatinize the starch and make it amenable to
enzymatic conversion in the mash kettle.  Since the starch in the rolled oats
has already been gelatinized, they would be the best choice, unless for some
strange reason you want to extend the amount of time it takes you to
accomplish your mash.

Ooogy wawa,
Dr. John

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 11:09:13 PDT
From: polstra!larryba at uunet.UU.NET (Larry Barello)
Subject: Re: Kegs and force carbonating beer

>From uunet!ncavax.decnet.lockheed.com!fbruno Fri Jul 10 09:14:19 1992
>
>Thanks, I did follow the advice, except I shook while it was still warm.
>I have left it chilling overnight, and periodically made sure that the pressure
>kept at 40lbs (I don't have them actively hooked up to the CO2 tank). They 
>should be ast temperatures below 50F. I will shake them more at home. Lastly,
>when I serve them, I keep the pressure at 5-7psi, but what should the storage
>pressure be? Still 5-7psi or leave at 40psi?

You will have to figure the storage pressure by trial and error.  40psi
at 50f will give you 4.5 volumes of CO2 - explosive by any measure!

If you have a british style beer you want ~2 volumes.  At 50f
the equilibium pressure is 12lb  I store and deliver my beers at 48f and
around 15-18lb.  A little fizzy for english, a little flat for german.
No big, I just pour from a great height to kill the carbonation.  It 
mostly works out in the end.  For german beers you want around 2.5-3
volumes which works out to 18-24psi.

The table I am working from comes in the fall 1990 Beverage Peoples News.
Their info line is 1-707-544-2520 (greater fermentations of Santa Rosa).
Perhaps they can give you a back copy?  It also has a good discussion of
force carbonating your beer.

Cheers!

 - Larry Barello

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 13:43 CDT
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Fridge thermostats

Roger suggests using the Honeywell thermostat for converting a fridge
to our temerature range.  I put forth that a Hunter AirStat or
Hunter Energy Miser (?) window air-conditioner thermostats are much
easier to use and are cheaper.  I paid $24.95 for mine at Builder's
Square.  It plugs into the wall outlet, the fridge (or in my case
chest freezer) plugs into the outlet on the front of the unit and
a remote sensor is at the end of a ~3 foot plastic covered wire.
No cutting of wires needed.  A different Builder's Square in my area
charges $29.95 for the same unit -- I was told it was because that
store suffers from a lot of shoplifting.  If you live in Anchorage,
and window air conditioners are foreign to your area, ask your hardware
store owner to order it from Hunter (the ceiling fan people) and make
sure you get the model that has the outlet on the front (the window
air-conditioner model).
Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 12:36:50 EDT
From: hpcsos.col.hp.com!hp-lsd.col.hp.com!hplabs!mtgzy!mtgzfs3!vjb (Victor J Bartash +1 908 957 5633)
Subject: re: seeking Heineken-like beer

Someone asked for a recipe to get a Heineken-like beer.
A favorite of my friends is recipe based on the Complete Joy of
Homebrewing's  "Dutch Pilsener" recipe in the partial mash
Section (intermediate section?). Sorry, I don't have the recipe
in the right form since I am at work but from memory I substitute 
Alexander's Pale extract for his extract and use Wyeast Danish Lager
or Wyeast European Lager (which I prefer). However, I don't
make it as real lager since I do it in the dead of winter with
my 60 degree basement. Finally, I found a hopping pattern of using
half the suggested bittering hops with 15 minutes to go rather than
all at the beginning of the boil gives a better flavor.

I made this several times and recommend especially for those wanting
to go from extract to all-grain but are prefer to play it safe. Partial
mashing is a good way to make the transition.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 13:56 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: My jockeybox

Russell writes:
>Gases are *more* soluble in water as temperature drops,
>and I suspect that beer is enough like water for this to hold
>true in brew.

Yes, I agree.

>Perhaps the length of the tubing in the "jockeybox" is the problem.
>The amount of beer sitting in the tubing and the amount of time
>any sip of beer spend sitting in the tubing increase with tubing
>length.  10 feet of tubing with a cross-sectional area of 1 cm2
>will easily accommodate an entire glass of beer.

I think the problem I had was that this was industrial beer being
dispensed continuously from a rented (grungy lines) jockeybox.  I still
believe, though, that the pressure would have to be pretty high to get the
CO2 to dissolve into the beer in the keg which is at, say 68F.  This
would be much too high a pressure for dispensing the beer.  Even
if the beer got to spend a few hours at 50F, so much of the dissolved CO2
would stay in solution when the beer finally came out of the faucet,
the pressure drop may still cause it to foam a lot.  That was my
hypothesis regrding the situation presented.
Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 12:06:37 PDT
From: rush at xanadu.llnl.gov (Alan Edwards)
Subject: Am I 100?

I sure would love to have a MALTMILL, seing as I'm starting to mash now.
Thanks,
 -Alan

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 14:03 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Keg o-rings

I suggest getting keg o-rings from either Foxx Equipment (800-821-2254)
or Superior (don't have the number handy).  The o-rings should be
food grade and I would suspect ones purchased at auto parts stores and
pool dealers.
Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 12:12:03 PDT
From: rush at xanadu.llnl.gov (Alan Edwards)
Subject: Here is a running count

I guess I should post something of content.  So, I've counted the articles
in each digest since Jack's post.  Here is the count I have, which implies
that the 7th caller...er, I mean, poster in THIS DIGEST will be the winner:

digest	amount	total
#918	14	14
#919	22	36
#920	33	69
#921	24	93

 -Alan
 .------------------------------------.
 | Alan Edwards: rush at xanadu.llnl.gov |      Member: The Hoppy Cappers
 |     or: alan-edwards at llnl.gov      |      homebrew club, Modesto, CA
 `------------------------------------'

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 14:21 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: kegging

orig>> 4)I've know that you need not to prime with corn sugar, hence
orig>>the carbonation is added thru the co2 tank.  But would it not
orig>>help get rid of unwanted oxygen while aging?

me>If the conditioning (carbonation) vessel, keg or bottle, is
me>sealed, then your only hope for getting rid of oxygen is
me>something like SmartCaps(tm).

john>Does that mean you advocate not introducing oxygen into the keg?
john>I know some people say that they flush the air out with CO2
john>before racking into the keg.  If this works, it should answer the
john>original question.

I do advocate minimizing the introduction of oxygen after fermentation
is complete.  The original question was "does priming eliminate
oxygen during aging?"  The answer to this question is still no.

>You had better find a way to keep it cold.  You also had better
>buy a CO2 tank and regulator (it sounds like you don't have
>one).  Refrigerated (if you have good sanitation) your kegged
>beer could stay good for a year.  Unrefrigerated, well, I
>wouldn't recommend it.

I have wondered about this myself.  Does anyone have an
explanation for it?  Considering that your bottled beer will last
a year at basement temps just fine, why shouldn't a keg do the
same?  Is it because air gets in when you tap the keg?  Or do
just microorganisms get in?  Or what?

Well, if your sanitation is good, it should not *spoil* whether in
bottles or kegs, however, the flavor and primarily the nose suffer
more at 70F than at 50F.

Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 14:30:43 -0500
From: "Jim Ellingson" <jimme at pi28.arc.umn.edu>
Subject: Stainless Steel Brew Pots


Greetings Brew Brethren:

At the risk of restarting the which is closer, Iowa or Minnesota debate }:-),
not to mention the commercialism debate }:-), here goes.  This is the best
price I've seen on a restaurant grade stainless steel stock pot.  The price
is about 25% less than Superior Product's, for the same brand and model.

Pots:	40 qrt. 19 gauge Polar SS pot  at  $67 and lid  at  $16 plus shipping
	as of Spring '92.

Other stuff: A variety of things from the catalog including
	SS pots 	(from small to gigantic)
	Aluminum pots 	(heavy, professional quality)
	Glassware by the dozen	(mugs, pints, etc. $8-14/dozen)
	Strainers
	Plastic containers in all sizes
	Bus and commercial dishwasher trays
	Great Rubber Gloves (elbow length)
	Knives

De Luca's is a wholesale place, may not do a lot of hand-holding.
Also, all sales are final.  They will ship, special order, etc.

Address:	DeLuca's Restaurant Supply
		2700 27th Ave. So.
		Minneapolis, MN  55406
		612/721-0230  Normal hours plus Saturday Mornings.

Disclaimer
I am not employed by, related to or receiving any kind of 
compensation from De Lucia's.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jim Ellingson                                     jimme at ahpcrc.umn.edu
 AHPCRC/University of Minnesota                    (612) 626-8087
 1100 Washington Ave. So.
 Minneapolis, MN 55415
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 15:37 EDT
From: man at kato.att.com

< Also I read an article about a new brew being offered in NJ - Goldfinch
< Amber Beer - by the Goldfinch Brewing Company in Mt. Laurel. The picture
< shows the beer in a 12oz bottle, so I am assuming it must be a contract
< beer. Has anyone tried this beer or know who brews it?

I had this just the other day. It is made by The Lion Brewery in Pa. The beer is barely amber in color. It tasted high in adjuncts (low flavor). I didn't really
care for it. $6.49 a six was way out of line, IMO. SOunds like another Jersey
Lager.


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 12:49 CDT
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: PH, Giveaway

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 >Subject: Adjusting ph of sparge water
 
 >I am an extract brewer who is looking into doing full mashes... A couple of 
 posts recently have confused me about the whole mashing process. As I 
 understand it, adjusting the ph of mash water.....
 
 I don't doubt that ph can be important.  Like to a profit oriented commercial 
 enterprise or if you really have wierd water.  But PLEASE do not let this bit 
 of esoterica keep you from making the leap to all grain.  It is part of the 
 science but don't let it interfere with the fun.  I quit messing with ph 
 after going through the exercise on my first batch.
 
 >P.S. Jack, I just received my KitchenAid grain mill in the mail. If you'll 
 give me the freebie(if I'm not #100) I'll do a side by side comparison and 
 post the results here. If I like the Kitchenaid mill better I'll return     
 yours; otherwise, I'll sell my Kitchenaid mill.
 
 I have a better idea, send me the Kitchenaid and I will do a review.  I have 
 been drooling over one (for bread making) for years.  I suspect it will make 
 great beer bread.  As an alternative, just tell us how long it takes to mill 
 a pound and you might pass along the total cost to those not familiar with 
 that wonderful machine.
 
 As a point of interest, I offered to swap a MALTMILL for one of those Italian 
 jobs but the guy invested $90 in an electric drill to drive it and was 
 approaching the thruput of a hand cranked MALTMILL and declined my offer.
 
 Of course the same offer applies to your Kitchenaide :)
 
 >From: klm at mscg.com (Kevin L. McBride)
 
 >What happens if Jack posts the 100th article?
 
 I get to select the winner.  I would probably send it to "you-know-who" just 
 to see how mean he can get.
 
 >From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
 
 > Considering that your bottled beer will last a year at basement temps just 
 fine, why shouldn't a keg do the same?  Is it because air gets in when you 
 tap the keg?  Or do just microorganisms get in?  Or what?
  
 I think it is, "Or what?"  Which of course translates to MOMILY.
 
 There clearly is no difference other than scale.
 
 However, the recurrent use of the terms "air" and "oxygen" could be clues.  
 Neither can get into a properly sealed and stored keg.  
 
 It may not be obvious to the casual reader but the use of hand pumps on party 
 kegs is one reason kegs, so abused, go bad.  The hand pump obviously pumps 
 air into the keg which guarantees oxidation and limits the drinkable life to 
 weeks if not days.
 
 >From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
 >Subject: Re: Getting that clove-like flavor
 
 Try REDSTAR yeast for the economy way to achieve that "clove-like flavor".  
 Of course you takes your chances and may get any one of a dozen other 
 interesting flavor variations. :)
 
 js


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 14:52 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: adjusting pH of sparge

Craig asks "why adjust the pH of the sparge water?"

The reason for this is that high pH water tends to extract more
astringent flavors from the husks of the grains.  Lowering the
pH (making the sparge water more acidic) will extract less of
these undesirable flavors.

Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 16:20:00 EDT
From: dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma)
Subject: Frank Jones, then and now


Hi all,
		This past weekend, while brewing up a festbier, my brewing
	partner and I conducted a side-by-side comparison of the older,
	contract-brewed by Catamount version of Frank Jones, and the new,
	brewed in Portsmouth version.
		It seemed to both of us that the older version had both
	slightly more hop bitterness, and slightly more hop flavor.  It 
	(the older version) also seemed just a bit lighter in color.  Does
	anyone know if Frank Jones changed the recipe?  Has anyone else
	noticed the difference??
		
		BTW, this change will not dissuade me from drinking and	
	enjoying Frank Jones.  IMHO, still a fine beer, even if it is
	*shudder* storebought.

	p.s. I also posted this article to New England Brewing forum.
	Normally, I am loathe to cross-post (shameful waste of bandwidth),
	but I had to get my raffle ticket for the maltmill.  How many we
	up to now, Jack??

Return to table of contents


Date: 10 Jul 92 16:54:00 EST
From: "CMD 2NDLT ALBERT W. TAYLOR " <S94TAYLOR at usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil>
Subject: RE:  Strawberries, Pectic Enzyme

I have brewed 3 or 4 batches of strawberry ale, and have had pretty good
results of the last two.  I would recommend adding the strawberries around
the same time you would dry hop, after most fermentation has subsided, to
reduce "scrubbing" of the volatile strawberry essence.  The little sugar that
is present in the fruit may be enough to affect carbonation, so I would
let the fermentation go at least a few more days.  You can add the berries
to the primary, but definitely rack after a few days.  I wouldn't recommend
adding the fruit just before bottling.  Pectic enzyme works very well to
reduce the pectin haze caused by heat pasteurization, which I would strongly
recommend you do.  I use 1/2 Tablespoon per gallon, and it worked so well
and so quickly that you could probably cut back to half that.  The stuff works
in less than 24 hours.  

I forgot one other thing:  I use about 1.5 lbs./gallon of beer, and end up
with an awesome pink-amber color, strong strawberry nose and finish, and a
mild strawberry flavor.  Tastes best after it is allowed to warm up a bit
out of the fridge.  Good luck with it!
Al Taylor
Uniformed Services University, School of Medicine, Bethesda, MD


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 18:45:02 CDT
From: whg at tellabs.com
Subject: partial mash questions...



Query for the collective consceincousness of the HBD.  I have been doing
partial mashes for the last 6 or so batches (2-4 lbs of grain in a gallon
or so of water).  One of these days I'll have the money to take it full
scale, but until such a time I have a question about my sparge method.

My current method is to mash the grains in my 5 gallon brew pot for about
one hour at 150-155 degrees.  Meanwhile I bring another gallon or so of
water to about 185 degrees in the 3gal pot and then put this into the 
bottling bucket.  Next I pour the wort through my spagettii strainer,
which is covered with cheese cloth and supended above the 3 gal pot.
After pouring throut the strainer, I move it (now full of grains) to
the 5 gallon pot and pour the wort through the grain bed again, in the
hopes that a nice filter bed has been set. Next I pour the water from
the bottling bucket (while has by now drop to about 170) slowly through
the grains.  Sometimes I place a small dish in the center of the grains
so the water does not disturb the grain bed.

What concerns me is that the wort drips down from the strainer to the 
kettle bottom.  Will this do anything other than possibly darken the
wort?  Can anyone suggest improvements to my methods? If I decided to
try an all grain bach could I split my boil between the 5 and 3 gallon
kettles?

I figure to do 5 gallons all grain I need a better sparge system, a
7-10gallon kettle ( owch! $$$), and of course (let this be #100) a
MALTMILL or the likes.  Does anyone out there have an opinion on the
Phil's Sparge sysstem, or any other ready made spargers?  Are you
just plain better off making your own?

I've rambled enough,
Walter

Walter Gude    ||   whg at tellabs.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 16:09:30 -0600
From: 105277 at essdp2.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES)
Subject: Maltmill Contest


It's not hard to count the number of posts since Jack's Contest Offer. As of
the end of digest #920 I counted 70 posts. Now, what's to keep me from 
writing a little com file that sends 30 copies of 

"Do I Win?"

That should give me a pretty good shot at it. I guess the only thing that
would keep me from doing that is the shame of such a desperate attempt
to win a MaltMill when I don't even mill my own grain anyway. Of course
If I did have a mill I probably would mill my own grain... Hmmm.

Note also that the last three digests had 15, 23, and 32 messages in that
order. So I predict that this digest (Friday #921) will contain the winner!

See Ya
Geoff

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 16:19:44 -0600
From: 105277 at essdp2.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES)
Subject: Mendicino Brewing Company's 4th of July Picnic


Phoebe Couch's post about the 4th of July festivities reminds me of my
trip up there. I got married last year on the 6th of July in Santa Rosa.
I didn't really want to have a traditional get-wasted-and-watch-women-
take-off-their-cloths batchelor party so a bunch of friends and i rented
a van and a driver and headed up there. 

We missed most of the festivities during the day but were there for the
end of the BBQ and for the band in the evening. I hadn't seen most of my
California friends for a while so we spent most of the evening sampling
various pitchers and yacking it up. As the evening got cooler everyone
moved inside except us and one other couple who ended up having sex on
the picnic table next to us. So my question is: was that just a special
floor show the brewery put on for us that night or is that typical of
the Mendicino Brewing Company?

Sure brings back memories - but only up to an uncertain point in the evening!

See Ya
Geoff

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 15:37:12 -0700
From: ronald at violet.berkeley.edu
Subject: Brewpubs in LA?


Now that we have a comprehensive list of Bay Area brewpubs, I'd like
information on brewpubs in the Los Angeles area. I have a friend who
is moving there and wants to know where to go. I will also be making
visits and would like to know myself.

Any information on bars or markets with good beer selections would
also be appreciated. I will post a summary of responses.

Thanks.

Ronald Sprouse
ronald at violet.berkeley.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 15:25
From: sherpa2!CCASTELL.ELDEC%mailsrv2 at sunup.West.Sun.COM (CCASTELL)
Subject: Friday afternoon ramblings

Daniel asks:
> - Can someone suggest any mail order or sources of used tanks,
>  especially if someplace has experience with homebrewers and their
>  particular needs.

You might try Keg Systems Plus, 2802 E. Madison St. #165, Seattle, WA 98112
(206) 322-2037.  He advertises in Zymurgy regularly.  I've bought several
items from him, and my wife bought a nifty jockeybox for me for Christmas.
(Double Tap Stainless Steel Cold  $229.  A little pricey, but it's pretty
efficient.  Doesn't require nearly the ice as a coil system.)  Used 20 lb
tanks go for $67.  Unfortunately, he doesn't sell used 5 lb.  You might
also try welding supply houses, and even the classifieds under building
equipment.

A used tank is the only way to go. The welding supply store where I get
my gas doesn't refill your tank when you take it in.  They just exchange
it for another tank that is full.  It saves them a lot of time doing it
that way.  5 lbs will probably be fine with only two kegs.  I've got
3 five gallons and 5 three gallons, and I have been able to survive with
just 5 lbs, but I am seriously considering adding a 20 lb tank.  It seems
like I always run out of gas just before a party or brew-club meeting.


Kevin asks:

> Can anyone add to Al's observations on this topic.  I plan to start
kegging
> with my next batch of beer.  I don't have a place to keep kegs cold. ...
> The kegs will be kept in my cellar at around 65 deg f.

I don't have any long term experience, but I've kept kegs in my garage
(which probably ranges from 60-80 degrees) for a couple of months with
no noticable degradation in quality.  (I bought another refer at a
garage sale to take care of the problem, but the damn thing won't work.
Anyone want to recharge my refrigerator in exchange for some beer or
cider?)
These have been mostly ales, but several of them have been filtered (no
yeast to protect them), and still have survived a month or so at room
temperature.  (It probably helps that they're under pressure.)


Charlie (me) asks:

If I can talk my wife into a road trip, does anybody have any suggestions
on where to stay in Portland this coming Friday and Saturday?  Something
close to the festival, clean, and if possible a pool (can be VERY small,
but my 2-1/2 year old twins won't be very happy after the 3 hour drive, so
I will need something to get them to lighten up).

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Charles Castellow






Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 16:39:11 -0600
From: 105277 at essdp2.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES)
Subject: Adding Body to Mead


>> How can one add "body" to a quick mead?  

> In my experience, adding more honey (two to four pounds per gallon) 
> helps make the flavor more "real".  In addition, remember to skim off
> the white and brown foam when it is heating/boiling - that helps keep
> the taste clean.

Adding more honey won't necessarily work. Honey is very fermentable.
That means that you end up with very few unfermentable sugars left 
when it is done. Doubling the amount of honey used will double the
unfermentable sugars but will that really make a difference? To get
more body you really have to add enough honey that the alcohol level
gets high enough that the yeast stops working and you have 
_unfermented_ honey left over. Using a low-attenuating yeast will
help but you'll never get a 'quick' mead that way. Be careful with
sanitizing bottles too. Any unfermented sugar means danger of bottle
bombs!

See Ya
Geoff

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 17:12:30 -0600
From: 105277 at essdp2.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES)
Subject: There are 2 types of immersion chillers


> From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: chillers
> 
> The original poster, accidentally wrote "immersion" instead of 
> "counterflow" in his post, but that's it. For the record, there 
> are basically two major types of wort chillers used by homebrewers:
> 
> 1. Immersion -- run cool water (usually tapwater) through a coil 
> of tubing which is immersed in the kettle of hot wort....
> 
> 2. Counterflow -- tube-in-hose chiller. Hot wort is siphoned or 
> pumped through a tube which is surrounded by a hose carrying cool 
> water (usually tapwater)....
> 

I think some of the confusion here is because people forget (3).

3. Immersion -- run hot wort though a coil of tubing which is
immersed in a bath of cold water.

I started out using (3) but found that I had some problems with
blockage of the tubing by hops - especially hop pellets. Other than
that the technique works great. You get most of the advantages of
a counter-flow chiller without all the plumbing and yet you don't
have to use as much water as you do with (1). 

All that not withstanding a blocked chiller is a really difficult
thing to unclog so I converted my (#3) to a (#1) by ataching fittings
to connect it to a garden hose. (This also went along with my move
from the kitchen to the garage for brewing.)

I don't have any suggestions on how to clear up the ambiguity of
what gets immersed in what but let's not jump on someone for being
stupid (as some - not the above poster) have done.

See ya
Geoff Reeves

P.S. I was wrong about HBD #921. It only had 25 messages which brings
the total to 95. It will be #922 for sure :-) Also I'm relieved that
I can post stuff without looking like I'm out for a grain mill. I'm
sure I won't be in the first 5 tomorrow. It just happens to be 
Friday afternoon on a slow day and I happened to have 7 digests
backed up in my mail directory.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 17:19:55 -0600
From: 105277 at essdp2.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES)
Subject: New Mexico Brew Clubs


> From: CHUCK <UNDERWOOD at INTEL7.intel.com>
>
> Does anyone have any info on brew clubs in the Albuquerque area?

There are two New Mexico brew clubs that I know about. The one in
Albuquerque is called the Dukes of Ale. (Albuquerque is nick-named
the Duke City for some strange reason.) They can be reached (among
other ways) by calling Dan Baughman. He should be in the phone book.

The other one is the Los Alamos Hill Hoppers. We are obviously in
Los Alamos. Probably a bit of a haul to come up here to drink beer
but you can get sample copies of our newsletter by writing to
Mike Hall (editor) at "hall at lanl.gov".

If anyone knows about other New Mexico brew clubs let me know so
we can get in touch.

Geoff Reeves
Atomic City Ales
Los Alamos New Mexico
(Home of the Hill Hoppers :-)

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 19:22:45 EDT
From: ...the shadow nose... <strahs at murex.bioc.aecom.yu.edu>
Subject: Hops question

	     I ordered some Willamette Hops from a brand-new homebrew supply
	shop that opened in Manhattan [Yea!!! Now Manhattan has TWO (yes, 2)
	shops! ].  I used the hops today when making Rocky Raccoon's Honey
	Lager (more or less, from TCJOHB).  The hops were from a distributor
	called Wines, Inc.  The hops appeared to be in detiorated condition
	(leaves not attached to cones, lots of loose yellow powder I'm 
	interpreting as lupulin) and there was foreign material present
	(darker green leaves and stems).  The foreign material appeared
	homogeneous as I watched it toil and boil in my wort. 
	
	My question is:

	Is this foreign material hops vine and leaf as I suspect, was it 
	harmful to my beer and has anyone had this experience?

	Thanks, 
		Dan Strahs
	


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 16:57 CDT
From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: Belgian caramel malts

     The latest installment to the Association of Brewer's Classic Beer
Styles Series, Belgian Ale by Pierre Rajotte, makes a brief yet
informative reference to a few of the new Belgian malts that are now
available to homebrewers in the US:

     ". . . Carapils (10 to 20 EBC, 4 to 8 L) gives added body to light
colored beers and is used mainly in Pilsener brewing.  Caravienne (30 to
60 EBC, 12 to 23 L) is used in the brewing of lighter colored Specials
and Abbey type beers.  Caramunich or crystal malt (140 to 160 EBC, 53 to
60 L) has a definite coloring effect.  Finally, Special B is a highly
colored caramel malt of 300 to 500 EBC (113 to 188 L) and gives a rich
caramel-malt taste.  It is used in Scotch ales and stouts brewed under
license in Belgium.  Darker Specials and Abbey beers at times use this
type of caramel malt.  Its effect is noticeable in beers, giving lots of
additional body and coloring.  Beers using Special B have more
well-rounded malt character than beers colored with only "candi" sugar. .
 . ."

     Those of you who have obtained some of this new and wonderful malt
and don't quite know what to do with it (like me) now have some direction
towards its use.

chris

Return to table of contents


Date: 10 Jul 1992 19:43:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: homebrew at tso.uc.EDU (Ed Westemeier)
Subject: SF Brewpubs & Maltmill

Thanks to Nick Cuccia's terrific list of beer establishments in the SF
Bay area, I had a terrific visit there last week.
 
Got to Pacific Coast Brewing Co. in Oakland (marvelous atmosphere, 
good food, only average house beers but a fabulous selection on tap); 
Buffalo Bill's in Hayward (what can I say -- a classic and good, well-
balanced beers with character); Gordon Biersch in Palo Alto (nice 
place, a bit pricey, and good average beers); Twenty Tank Brewery in 
San Francisco (a real dive, but again good food and pretty good beer.  
Also a very friendly and informative assistant brewmaster on hand).  
Tried the Marin Brewing Co. in Larkspur, but got there while they were 
closed for the holiday.  Looked like a fern bar from the window, but I 
hear their beer is good.  What a trip!
 
It got me thinking about how far we've come in just the last five
years.  With this kind of variety (and even the beers I rated as 
average were "head" and shoulders above their big commercial cousins)
our standards are getting higher, too.  Maybe we'll get to be a real
beer country yet.  Does anyone know where the big three candidates 
stand on microbreweries and brewpubs?
 
Also, I would guess that I might have been that 100th buyer of the 
maltmill who gave Jack the idea for the lottery.  I have to admit I was 
skeptical, but after seeing one at the AHA conference last month and 
rereading George Fix's favorable review, I took the plunge.  After one
trial, I'm glad I did -- got an almost perfect crush and improved my
extraction rate.  Usual disclaimers, but thought in fairness I should 
let people have another unbiased opinion.
 
- --Ed
###

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1992 21:46 EDT
From: S94WELKER at usuhs
Subject: FL, OH brewpubs; fruit sanitizing suggestion; maltmill

I will be doing some traveling soon; and was hoping to find some brewpubs in
the Fl panhandle or southern AL (is that redundant?).  If anyone knows some
good spots, send me a message (and I'll post a summary) or post it, what the 
heck.  "S94WELKER at USUHSB.BITNET" is my short address.
Second, I have a suggestion for those who hope to sanitize apples for cider...
or any other fruit for brewing.  Blanch them.  This means "dunk in boiling H2O"
for a while.  I think killing off some of the bugs on the surface would give
the yeasties an advantage (and with the other methods suggested, increase the
odds of a large yeast population).  I have used this method for strawberries
which were added to my secondary, and I had no infections.  For apples, 
blanching would have the added advantage of removing wax (added by distribu-
tors) and some of the chemicals (although those are a trivial consideration--
cirrhosis and DUIs are our primary threats).

Finally, I am posting this message at this time because of the maltmill 
shenanigans js is pulling.  I am hoping I will be the big winner so
I can refuse the prize (being a satisfied extract brewer with no plans to
change).  Do you watch ESPN, Jack?  Well, now you won't need to.

While the DC area is devoid of brewpubs, we have a number of bars well-stocked
with microbeers (tops is the Brickskeller; 500+ varieties).  Travelers to our
city (fair it ain't) should definitely see the place and have one of the 7 SN
products, or Dolle Brewers' Bos Keun.

- --Scott Welker, Pediatrician for a day

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 18:03:28 PDT
From: megatek!slover at suntan.West (Steven Slover)
Subject: Source for Stainless Brewpot



Greetings,

I am looking for a source for a large, stainless brewpot to use for a full
boil.  What size do most people use, 8-10 gallon?  I know I could find
something at a restaurant supply store but it would probably cost over $100.
I think I have read here that some people have used old kegs with the top
cut off.  Is this true?  What kind of kegs are they?  Anybody have any other
ideas for brewpots?  It doesn't have to be pretty but cheap would be nice.

Thanks for any info.

Steve

- --
Steve Slover
[uunet,ucsd]!megatek!slover
(619)455-5590


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 08:35:44 PDT
From: hartman at varian.varian.com (John Hartman)
Subject: re: unrefridgerated kegs

In digest #921 Kevin asks about keeping beer in unrefridgerated kegs.  I've been doing
this for about a year now.  The beer keeps well at 65F but its character will
continue to change.  Keeping the beer at 50-55F slows down the maturation process.
Also if you bottle from the keg and then chill the bottled beer it tends to be flat,
since the carbonation level in the warm keg will be much lower than that of the
chilled bottle temp.  Apart from these minor problems you shouldn't have any problems.
The Hunter Air Stat is definitely the way to go.  I've bought the Air Stat I just
haven't gotten 'round to finding a refridgerator.  I just can't wait to carry it up
the stairs:-)

Cheers,
John

Return to table of contents


End of HOMEBREW Digest #925, 07/17/92