FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Right beer for ______ ("Roger Deschner  ")
  Brewing disasters (Richard Hargan)
  Request for Pittsburgh Pubs (Peter Bartscherer)
  Brewing mishap (Frank Tutzauer)
  ne head (Russ Gelinas)
  CHOREBOY FILTERING ("Deborah Poirier")
  Brewing Disasters (Craig Vandeventer)
  Badbrau (craigman)
  Mixed yeasts, bitter foam, assorted hop info (Paul dArmond)
  RE; Multiple yeast strains (was Halifax/Yeast Collaboration) (Greg Winters)
  a brew from hell (Joe Rolfe)
  Maple Ale Recipe  (Mark_Davis.osbu_south)
  CLASSIFIED, PROPANE, BIC (Jack Schmidling)
  How dumb can I be? (CCAC-LAD) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  BRF malt ratings (chris campanelli)
  Extract Madness (Chris Goedde)
  B-Brite/Bleach (STROUD)
  Brewing Disaster #1 (Jeff Frane)
  Anyone use Oak Chips? (BELLAGIO_DAVID)
  homebrewing horror story (JOE)


Send articles for __publication__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
    (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
    listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
    message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
**Please do not send me requests for back issues!**
*********(They will be silenty discarded!)*********
**For Cat's Meow information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu**


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 September 1992 07:26:52 CDT
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Right beer for ______

One of the best references for what beers go with what sort of food I've
found is the preface chapter entitled "Time for a beer", in older
editions of Michael Jackson's Pocket Guide to Beer. Jackson must
certainly be called an authority, if not THE authority, on this.
Unfortunately, this colorful review has been deleted in the most recent
edition. :'-(

Return to table of contents


Date:         Wed, 02 Sep 92 09:16:30 EDT
From: Richard Hargan <HARGAN at UMDD.UMD.EDU>
Subject:      Brewing disasters

Well, not exactly a disaster - a major embarrassment.

I had been dating a woman for a few weeks and introduced her to the
wonderful world of homebrew.  Having recently finished a batch (my
13th, I think), I left a case over at her condo.

When I dropped by for dinner one evening, I found her in the kitchen
with a worried look on her face and a mug of beer on the counter.

"I don't think I poured it right", she said.  (I had explained to her
that bottle conditioned beer required care in decanting).

"It tastes ....   funny".

So, I poured a glass.  I took a sip.  Not bad, but then there was the
aftertaste.  Ah yes, the aftertaste.

You know the taste that is left in your mouth after heaving your guts
up?  This batch of beer had duplicated it.

We promptly dubbed it Bimbleman's ("When you want a beer real bad, we've
got a real bad beer"), and fed the remainder to Mr. Sink.

Surprisingly, this experience did not turn her off to either homebrew or
me, and we wound up married and brewing together.  It did convince me to
take sanitation more seriously in my brewing.

So, there was a happy ending.

Rich Hargan  (hargan at umdd.umd.edu)

Return to table of contents


Date:         Wed, 02 Sep 92 09:50:28 EDT
From: Peter Bartscherer <BARTSCHP at DUVM.OCS.DREXEL.EDU>
Subject:      Request for Pittsburgh Pubs

I saw a request for Pittsburgh area pubs, but have never seen a response.
If there was a response, could someone forward it directly to my address,
or if there wasn't, if anyone has recommendations, please post them here.
I'll be going to Pittsburgh in two weeks and of course would love to have
some good beer in a great place. Thanks in advance for any help.

BTW, with all these requests for similar recommendations for all over the
US etc, is anyone compiling the responses in one easy to access file?
 ___________________________________________________________________
  Peter Bartscherer  215.626.7714           Design & Imaging Studio
  BARTSCHP at DUVM.OCS.DREXEL.EDU              Drexel U / Philadelphia
 ___________________________________________________________________

Return to table of contents


Date: 02 Sep 1992 10:01:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK%UBVMS.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Brewing mishap

Last July, some friends and I (there were six of us) attended the
Winterhawk Bluegrass Festival in the Berkshire mountains.  We
were miles from civilization and it was to be three days of fun
and sun and some really great music.  I had also just bought my
first Cornelius kegging system, and this trip was to be its
inaugural run.  Having never kegged before, I didn't really know
what I was doing (I still don't know what I'm doing), but I
figured what the hell I'll fake it.

When we got to the top of the mountain, all of my friends oohed
and ahhed at the shiny copper coils in the jockey box.  They were
suitably impressed by the sophisticated dials and gadgets, and
awed by the industrial-looking tanks and containers.

Much to my amazement, the kegging system and jockey box worked
far better than I had expected.  Except for one detail.  I had
used a hose barb to attach the fittings on the keg to a vinyl
hose which ran into the jockey box.  Well, let me tell you it
wasn't sufficient.  A day or two after we arrived, we were all
sitting around under our tarp, enjoying some Winterhawk Amber.
We had just finished a wonderful lunch.  Someone was playing
guitar.  The afternoon was beautiful.  Bliss....

And then, PFFFSSSHHHHHHOOOO!

A geyser of beer spewed straight up, and out, and seemingly
everywhere.  I jumped up and began cranking on the valve to the
CO2 canister.  It took me a second to realize that this was
futile, of course.  There was plenty of pressure in the keg to
keep that beer spewing and spraying and oh my God what do I do
now I'm getting soaked any ideas what now somebody help and then
by a miracle I thought to disconnect the out fitting from the keg
and the volcano stopped.

Of course everybody just roared with laughter, thinking this
event was oh so funny.  According to one of my friends, the best
part was that once the beer geyser erupted, I evidently jumped up
and shouted, "Yee ha," before diving into the fountain.

What had happened was the hose barb had come loose.  I had
thought to bring some hose clamps, so once I figured out the
problem it was easy to fix.  And we still had plenty of brew
left, so it wasn't a total disaster.  But now we were all beer-
sticky.  Our hair was sticky, our clothes were sticky.  The
ceiling of our tarp, the guitar, the keg, our supplies,
everything--sticky, sticky, sticky.

But the music was good.

- --frank


Return to table of contents


Date:    Wed, 2 Sep 1992 10:31:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: ne head

    Heard about Quayle Ale?   It has no head.

    Same with my alt.  The recipe included 5 lbs. munich, 2 lbs. pale, and 
1 lb. wheat malt.  I did an one-step infusion mash.  Would a protein rest 
have helped with head retention?

    Had an odd ferment with my latest, a porter.  Used the slurry from the
primary of the above alt, OG of the two were similar.  Yeast was Wyeast
German Ale (1007?).  With the alt, there was a *thick* krausen, and much
blowoff.  The krausen stayed a good 4" thick for a week, with much obvious
ferment activity in the carboy.  With the porter, the krausen peaked at 2", 
no blow-off, and went down after 2 days.  I thought I had a stuck ferment,
but it had actually fermented down to 1.016 (from ~1.040) in those 2 days.  
What gives?  Did the yeast adapt that quickly to my environment?

Russ

Return to table of contents


Date:         WED, 02 Sep 92 11:07:23 EDT
From: "Deborah Poirier" <POIRIER at INRS-ENER.UQuebec.CA>
Subject:      CHOREBOY FILTERING

from: Deborah Poirier

Hi all!

The idea of using a choreboy and hop bag to filter hot wort as it is
siphoned into the wort chiller sounds great, but I've had trouble actually
doing it. How on God's green earth do you actually get the copper tube to
stick to the choreboy?  Last weekend's batch ended up chilled in the
secondary hops, hot break, and all. HELP!

Thanks in advance to the kind souls who send me info.

Deb   <poirier at inrs-ener.uquebec.ca>

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 10:55:36 -0500
From: c_vandev at hwking.cca.cr.rockwell.com (Craig Vandeventer)
Subject: Brewing Disasters


Well, since someone out there wants to hear tales of horror, here is mine:

It all began way way way back in the early 1980s when I was a grunt engineer
working for Boeing in Seattle. I was just starting out in the home brewing
hobby when the Boeing Winemaking/HomeBrewing club was to hold an auction of
wine making and beer making supplies at one of their meetings. I thought this
would be a great opportunity to pick up one of those great big jars they show
in "Better Beer and How to Brew It"(carboy). Well, it just so happened that
there was one there. It was an older carboy with smoked blue glass. The
auctioneer claimed that it was an antique carboy. So I ended up bidding the
highest for the antique carboy(~$30) and proudly carted it home. Boy, was I 
proud of that carboy. It was just the most beautiful carboy any home brewer
could ever have. 

My first brewing experience with God's carboy would have to wait since my
wife and I packed up and moved to Cedar Rapids, Iowa. We rented a small 3
bedroom house with very light colored carpet(nice forshadowing, huh?). After
a few months of getting adjusted to the less stressful lifestyle in Iowa I got
the itch to brew a batch of beer. After a few hours of brewing and beer
drinking I got everything into the carboy. I pitched the yeast and put an
airlock on. I placed this beautiful carboy in the spare bedroom that we rarely
entered(used it as a storage room). 

The next morning, full of anticipation, I went into the spare bedroom to check
on my creation. The airlock was flowing with goop and the goop was running
down the side of the carboy onto the nice carpet. I quickly grabbed some 
newspapers and placed the carboy on top of the papers. The carpet had sustained 
minor staining but the papers covered that up so the wife couldn't see it
to bitch at me about it. So now I thought maybe I should take the airlock off
and clean it and then put it back on, but I would have to do that over and over
until the goop stops coming out of the carboy(what the hell is a blowoff
system, anyway?). I decided to leave that airlock on until the goop stopped
flowing. I would replace it then. 

So now I closed the door to the spare bedroom. It wasn't until 3 days later 
that I remembered to check on how the brew was doing. Thinking I was going to
replace the goopy airlock I went and grabbed a spare, filled it, and headed
off to the spare bedroom. I opened the door to find that the carboy that was
sitting on some newspapers 3 days ago was no longer there. Instead of a lovely
carboy filled with fermenting beer there were shards of glass everywhere. God's
carboy had turned into the carboy from hell.

Evidently, the air lock got glogged and would not let any CO2 to escape. But
those little yeasties didn't care and happily munched away until BOOOM!! 
Not only was the nice light colored carpet a deep shade of brown, the walls had
brown specks on them, the ceiling had brown specks on it, furniture had brown
specks on it, EVERYTHING had brown crap on it! Several boxes of our belongings
were ruined because the boxes help soak up the brown crap(sweet wort outside
of proper containment vessels is defined as crap).

Well, after cleaning out the spare bedroom of everything I gave Stanley Steamer
Carpet Cleaner a call. They came out and cleaned the carpet. After a few days
the carpet turned a light shade of brown. Stanley Steamer came back out and 
cleaned it again for free since they didn't get it clean the first time. Once
again the carpet turned a lighter shade of brown(tan). Stanley Steamer refused
to clean the carpet again without me paying for it. We no longer live at that
house and the owners never said anything about how one of the bedrooms has a 
darker carpet than the rest. 

This story is why I never brew any more 5 gallon batches in 5 gallon carboys.

Craig Vandeventer

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 10:00:35 -0600
From: craigman at casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Subject: Badbrau

        In the Chicago area last March, the Baterbrau brewery
recalled/cancelled their spring batches of beer.  As it turns out, the
Elmhurst water works, supplier of B'brau's water, discovered intolerable
levels of radium in the water supply.  Residents were warned and instructed
to take necessary precautions, and restaraunt businesses (beverage
suppliers) were warned to correct/prevent problems that would resurface in
their products.  Coincidently, this past summer has, from what I hear from
hop growers, been a bit harsh on our well-loved flowers of the vine.  The
radium problem has since been solved, and all danger has, to my knowledge,
passed.  It does, however, strike me as amusing that such experienced
brewers as these (the Baterbraumeisters) would experiment with alpha and
beta rays as a substitute for alpha and beta acid resins!

LizardArm

craigman at casbah.acns.nwu.edu (craig anderson)


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 08:30:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul dArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Mixed yeasts, bitter foam, assorted hop info

In HBD 960, Chris Estes asks about using ale and champagne yeasts for a
barley wine.  My friend, Perry Mills, has been using champagne yeast with
ale yeast for several years with good results.  His beers are extremely
interesting in that he violates most of the current taboos and gets very
good beer for his efforts.  He uses large amounts of corn sugar (up to 1/2
of the fermentables), boils his specialty grains for hours after grinding
them in a blender, gets very low hop utilization, and skims the foam off
of his open fermenter.  All of these things have been condemned in print. 
The most interesting part is that his beers do not have the "cidery" taste
supposed to result from using lots of sugar.  Most of his high-gravity
beers are in a dry porter/stout style.  His technique is extremely
methodical and evolved as a way of improving his brews. 

At any rate, he uses repitched yeast, Munton and Fison dry ale yeast and
Red Star Champagne, all pitched together.  As I recall, OG ~1.110 FG
~1.010.  Very dry beer, with light body and roast malty tones.  The
primary is in a plastic garbage can, batch size is usually 10 gal.  Perry
skims the foam until no more is produced.  I think this may remove some of
the harsher flavors and higher alcohols.  Perry insists that the ash that
falls off his cigar when skimming is crucial to the success of the beer.

Then the beer is racked into 5 gal carboys.  The secondary fermentation
can take up to six months.  My guess is that the ale yeasts reproduce
faster than the champagne, and so are responsible for the primary
fermentation, then the champagne just keeps chugging along. 

For more than a year, I badgered Perry about his ingredients and methods,
then I got some sense, tasted the beer and shut up.  We now agree that if
everyone made the same beer, the world would be a boring place.

Mark Nevar in HBD 960 asks about the bitter foam on his Redcoat's Revenge
Porter.  The bittering principles in hops, alpha-acids, are not very
soluble in wort.  Only a small portion gets isomerized and goes into
solution, the rest falls out of solution with the trub and other
precipitates.  The bittering principles that are not in solution ride
around on the CO2 bubbles.  Blowoff foam and the scum that forms a ring
at the top of open fermenters has a lot of these insoluble bitter resins
in them.  I've done some comparison brews between bucket and blowoff
primaries.  My impression is that the blowoff is slightly less bitter and
has a smoother taste.

Carboys that have been used for blowoff primaries always have a lot of
brown crud stuck to the top and neck.  I've found that clear ammonia, 1
cup / 5 gal water gets it right off.  Throwing a cup of cold water into
the brewpot will stop a boilover in its tracks.

I really liked Chris Campanelli's disaster story.  Another Great Moment in
Brewing.

Paul de Armond  


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 09:40:42 PDT
From: Greg.Winters at EBay.Sun.COM (Greg Winters)
Subject: RE; Multiple yeast strains (was Halifax/Yeast Collaboration)



Chris Estes writes about using multiple strains (ale & champagne) for a 
extract barley wine - 


Chris, I think you are on the right track. I also made one similar
using wyeast Belgian ale yeast and champagne yeast. I might suggest 
that you give liqued yeast a try and this particular one provided
great flavor. Just don't let the temp get to high. Here is my 
recipe -


DATE: 2/7/92

NAME: Breakfast Barleywine

INGREDIENTS:
        14 lbs. Alexanders Pale Malt Extract
        2 oz. Black malt
        1 lb. Golden Brown Sugar
        1 lb. Honey
        2 1/2 oz. Hallertau N.B. plugs (7.5%) 90 minute boil
        3 1/2 oz. Fuggles plugs (4.2%) 90 minute boil
        1/2 oz. Fuggles plugs (4.2%) dry hop for 1 week
        3 tsp. Gypsum
        Wyeast Belgian Ale
        Vintner's Choice Champagne Yeast


BREWING NOTES:

OG: 1098
SG: 1024

PRIMARY FERMENTAION TIME: 1 week                TEMP: 63
Very vigourous primary fermentation that took off within 12 hours.

SECONDARY FERMENTATION TIME: 5 weeks                    TEMP: 66
Racked off trub and pitched liquid champagne yeast. Not much activity,
the belgian must have done the trick. Still, there is some minor activity.


TASTING NOTES:

3/18/92 - Upon bottling, it is already delicious.

9/2/92 - Well I only have two left and probably should have let it age out
        for another six months, but it just wasn't meant to be...
        This was by far the best strong ale I have ever made. Color and taste
        is out of this world. I also found that it seems to fair better bottled
        in champagne bottles for some reason. Much smoother carbonation. Only
        problem is I have to find someone to split it with!

Luckily I have another batch going.

Take Care, Greg

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 12:44:30 EDT
From: Joe Rolfe <jdr at wang.com>
Subject: a brew from hell

hi all,

well some of the stories of troubled brewing sessions got me thinking,
heres one that could have been worse but.....
 
i was readying to brew up a good size batch, doing the calculations for
hops, extract (yes i still am a lowly extract brewer), yeast amounts, boil
evaporation etc.....

well started to bring the water to boil (lots), water was getting pretty warm
as i began to dump in the extract, shit - forgot to put the hop screen in the
outlet valve... major problem run off from the kettle would be forever without
it... sunk the screen on a couple of copper wires, lined er up and wacked it
into place with my trusty charismatic OAR.  Great start dumping the extract,
 gas heat off, leave eletric running, a big can of syrup added.  usually after
adding i check the SG just to ensure i am on track (which i did) drawing off
the sample, putting the hydrometer in - damn the hyrometer hit the bottom of
the test jar an cracked the bottom. great i am nowhere near the sg i need, i'll
not even be able to test the pre ferment...lets use the holder of the hydro jar
wrong it melted the damn thing.... o well.  add the dry extract as calculated
and boil.....

hops added boiled all is well - so i only broke the hydro jar.  set up the 
counter flow chiller, connect up the hoses to the fermenter, sanitize, flush,
ready to go.  start the yeast (dry type) in warm water.  whirlpool, add irish
moss - wait 30 min..... feed wort thru the chiller, check output temp -- oh no
my yeast starter is foaming out the top of the jar, quickly run over to shake 
the foam back down, i feel something warm on my back side, well it is not
warm any more, it is hot - really hot, i hear splashing, lots of splashing 
holy shit, oh no - i kick the pump/hose and it busted off the hot wort output
nipple.  wort  hot wort spurting up from the pump hitting the ceiling, the back
of my jeans.  quick pump off valve closed - what a f******** mess 4 gallons
of wort all over the floor.  yeast foam all over the sink.  relax, don't worry
i don't think so.... 
 
i had another pump and cleaned up the mess all was well, actually the beer 
turned out to be not bad considering, .... my beer from hell - batch number 3
got some other fermenters (glass carboy) added raspberry, blueberry and dry
hopped another (4 different beers from hell).  The BFD'ers liked them too!
 
so there is my story of disaster
 
joe rolfe

Return to table of contents


Date: 	Wed, 2 Sep 1992 10:09:10 PDT
From: Mark_Davis.osbu_south at xerox.com
Subject: Maple Ale Recipe 

	Does anyone have a good extract (good and extract are not always
contradictory terms) recipe for some sort of maple ale. I need a recipe by this
weekend and have looked at cat's meow and found only a recipe for maple stout,
but I was looking for something a little paler. Any help would be greatly
appreciated.

 On another note, A friend is looking for a beer recipe that uses cardamom as
one of it's ingredients, any suggestions. Finally, someone at work is going to
be in New York and requests any info on brewpubs in the Hempstead area.

Once again many thanks in advance for your assitance.
Mark
Mark_Davis.osbu_south at Xerox.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 09:40 CDT
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: CLASSIFIED, PROPANE, BIC

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 Send me some ads!  I still need a few more to make it interesting.
 
 It does not have to be commercial.  Sell your old retired fermenter.. 
 anything.  What are you looking for?   Just post a WANTED ad.
 
 >From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
 >Subject: Cajun Cooker Enclosure
 
 Aside from the renters and homesteaders, I have a hard time understanding the 
 propane business.
 
 What happens when you hook one of these things to natural gas?  I presume 
 they have an air/gas mixture adjustment... no?
 
 >From: SLK6P at CC.USU.EDU
 
 >Another note:  For culturing yeasts.  I would highly recommend the use of
 flame ( a good time for flaming...) on such things as inoculating loops,
 test tubes etc....$10-15 you can get a small propane torch and tank of gas to
 sterilize utensils/glassware.
 
 It may not be very elegant but a BIC lighter is probably as cost effective as 
 one can get.
 
 >Gas flames are a common piece of equipment in any micro
 lab.
 
 I have often wondered about the "proper" method of flaming.  It would seem 
 that just passing through a flame would kill anything on the tool but on the 
 other hand, the tool is a heat sink and the critter might not even get hot.
 
 So to make sure, I heat the loop cherry red and the glass rod till I know it 
 is hot.  The problem is, if you then poke it into the yeast to transfer it, 
 the yeast gets fried unless you let it cool.  While cooling, it is in the 
 unsterile air and one never really knows when it is cool.
 
 So, the question, at last...  is just passing through the flame sufficient?
 
 And finally, I am getting about 3 quarts of juice from ten lbs of apples with 
 my crude crusher/press.  Does anyone know what I would get if I invested a 
 couple hun into a real one?
 
 js
 

Return to table of contents


Date:     Wed, 2 Sep 92 14:39:40 EDT
From: William Boyle (CCAC-LAD) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  How dumb can I be?

OK I'll tell you how dumb I can really be.  I ferment in a 5
gal water bottle with a 3/8" blow off tube (dumb). I use a
1 foot piece of copper tubing bent into a "J" with the long
end in the stopper and a tube connected to the other end
going into a bucket of water.  I set this on my kitchen
counter which is about three feet from the dinner table.

One morning I was eating breakfast before I left for work,
with a batch bubbling away (yes it was bubbling, I checked it
when I first got up).  Sometime after I checked it, bits of
hop pellets began to collect in the tube.  The next thing I
knew the stopper blew out spewing wort and stuff all over my
kitchen and me.  The carboy looked like a fountain.  I picked
up the stopper and tried to put it back on, which is like
trying to screw a nozzle on a garden hose which has water
flowing, this did not work.  So I figured the tube was
clogged, so I removed the copper tube and tried to put just
the stopper in the carboy, now this is like getting the
nozzle on the hose and opening it up, the foaming mess then
shot up in a higher fountain hitting the ceiling.  By this
time I was wet and sticky (which can be fun :-), but I was
not having fun) and the stuff was still foaming.  I ended up
waiting for the wort to stop foaming before I was able to put
on an airlock, By this time I had lost (actually I did not
loose it I knew exactly where is was :)) about two gallons of
wort :-(.

I know this is not as bad as breaking a foot or breaking your
face but it still was no fun, especially since my wife did
not find this humorous.

                                             B^2

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 12:18 CDT
From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: BRF malt ratings

The malt ratings in BRF are 100%, i.e. theoretical maximums.  If you came
up with an efficiency of 96.6% I think you might want to recheck your
measurements.  Imprecise malt weights and/or wort volumes can drastically
alter an efficiency as can gravity readings at temps other than 60F.  I'm
open to rebuttal but I seriously doubt any homebrewer can achieve an
effeciency of 90% or better.  I'm in no way a great brewer but I have
been brewing for six years.  I can only achieve the upper 80's and thats
with preground malt, rigorous ph control, slow sparging and the like.

As for what Terry Foster states about malt ratings, six different authors
will give you six different answers.  I pulled out alot of hair trying to
get a comprehensive list of malt ratings.  Believe me, I understand your
confusion.  For a more definitive source I would suggest Doctor Bob's
Amazing Wheel of Beer.  Not only are the malt ratings more trustworthy
but the Wheel is a fiendishly ingenious tool of its own right.  The
values in BRF are not written in stone.  You have an editing option. 
Your's is the final word.

One of the problems with this whole rating system is that we are dealing
with an agricultural product.  Barley is susceptible to seasonality. 
Although malting companies hit the mark consistently, malt gravity
contributions may vary from time to time.

The only source of information that I truly trust is the malting company.
 I usually buy malt in bulk.  I contact the malting company and ask them
what the current rating is for the malt in question.  Malting companies
perform laboratory analysis on every batch of malt that goes out.  The
information they provide is painstakingly accurate.  If I buy a 50 lb bag
of malt tomorrow, I'm not going to trust the malt rating that some
self-proclaimed yahoo printed in a book 8 years ago.

chris campanelli

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 15:40:16 EDT
From: Chris Goedde <goedde at shape.mps.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Extract Madness

First, I'd like to thank everybody who offered help with my "Siphon
Woes" problem.  I haven't racked anything else since then, but I'll
let y'all know how it goes.

I have a few questions about extracts because I like to brew in 3
gallon batches, so I end up playing with recipes a lot.  I realize
that the answer to them is probably "It depends", but I'd appreciate
any wisdom you might like to offer me.

1)  If you were going to make amber extract out of light extract
    plus specialty grains, how would you do it?

2)  Same question, but making dark out of light extract.

3)  I was told that liquid extract is typically less fermentable
    than dry extract.  In other words, given two identical batches,
    with the same starting gravity, one made with liquid extract
    would have a higher final gravity than one made with dry extract.
    Is this true?  [Note:  I'm not talking about the fact that 
    liquid extract contains water and therefore contains less
    fermentables than dry extract on a pound for pound basis.  The
    person who told me this was talking about the proportion of
    fermentable/unfermentable sugars for each type of extract.]

4)  If you had an all-grain recipe that called for, say, 8 pounds
    of 2-row malt, and you wanted to use light dry extract instead,
    how much would you use?

Thanks,
chris
goedde at shape.mps.ohio-state.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:12 EST
From: STROUD <STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com>
Subject: B-Brite/Bleach

B Gorman asks whether non-chlorine bleach could be used instead of
B-Brite to clean and sanitize.

It probably could, except that every package of non-chlorine bleach
that I've ever seen in a grocery store has "fragrance" as an
ingredient.  If you want to make a batch of "Perfumey" Pale Ale, go
for it.

********************
In HBD #959, C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk asks:
>Is this suggesting that chlorine degrades with time, even in a sealed
>container?

Actually, it's hypochlorite, not chlorine, in bleach that degrades
with time.  I used to use Chlorox as a reagent in grad school.  We
always titrated it before use.  Fresh bleach would always be about
5.25% NaOCl (sodium hypochlorite), as is listed on the bottle, but
this value would slowly decrease upon storage.  Older bottles (~1 year
old) often would be down in the 3.5-4% range.

Incidentally, sodium hypochlorite in bleach is produced commercially
by the electrolysis of cold, dilute aqueous sodium chloride solutions
under conditions where the sodium hydroxide and chlorine can mix.

2NaCl + 2 H2O + electricity --> 2 NaOH + Cl2 + H2 (gas)
               Cl2 + 2 NaOH --> NaCl + NaOCl + H2O
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
The net reaction is:

NaCl  +  H2O + electricity --> NaOCl + H2(gas)

The sodium hypochlorite produced is unstable at elevated temperatures
and undergoes autooxidation-reduction to form halides and halates:

3 NaOCl --->  2 NaCl + NaClO3


Steve 

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 14:39:29 PDT
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Brewing Disaster #1

My net connection has been busted for almost two weeks, so I missed the
call for brewing "mishaps".  I've certainly had my share of those, but
the worts (oops!) was early this summer.  I'd spent most of the day
putting together a six gallon batch of stout from a recipe which worked
beautifully before.  We were headed toward an OG of 1070, with four or
five kinds of malt, three kinds of hops and much spousal anticipation.
At the end of the boil, I hooked up the siphon hose to the wort chiller,
clamped off the far end and stirred up a great whirlpool.  

I had _some_ reason for doing a little research upstairs, digging in a
brewing text, during the 20 minute rest.  When I wandered down to the
basement, though, I was dismayed by an unexpected splashing sound.
Running across the room I was in time to watch the last pint or so
disappearing through the wort chiller, down the outside of the carboy
and down the floor drain!!!!!!!!!  Naturally, I calmly cleaned up the
mess, quietly put all my equipment away and returned upstairs to the
bosom of my family.  Any blood-curdling screams and loud slamming of
metal reported by my neighbors is a lie!

As many times as I've struggled to get a syphon started, or lost one in
the middle of an operation, I've _never_ had one volunteer before.

Now I never leave the brewery unattended -- for anything.

- --Jeff Frane


Return to table of contents


Date: 2 Sep 92 14:04:00 -0700
From: BELLAGIO_DAVID at Tandem.COM
Subject: Anyone use Oak Chips?

- ------------   ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT   --------
SENT 09-02-92 FROM BELLAGIO_DAVID  at FORTY

Hi,
    I was planning on using some Oak chips I got from a brew supply shop for
an IPA.  I read somewhere where I should toast them in the oven or steam them
for sanitization and them add them to the primary for 8 days.  The instructions
on the bag say to steep them ( I assume in the wort ) for Oak flavor.  I also
assume you could add these to the secondary for some time.  Has anyone
experimented with this?

Super Dave

Bellagio_David at tandem.com

Return to table of contents


Date:    Thu, 3 Sep 1992 10:32:18 EST
From: JOE at syd.deg.CSIRO.AU
Subject: homebrewing horror story

Date sent:  3-SEP-1992 09:07:48
Well, I hate to tell on myself but after Norm Pyle's request for more horror
stories and Chris Campanelli's awesome blow-by-blow.......here's a true story:

I was going to brew the best all-grain pale ale Boulder had ever seen. I got my
Corona set PERFECT, no flour just husks. The dough-in, protein rest, and mash
went exceedingly well. The pH's and temps were great. All that remained between
me and homebrew nirvana was a simple sparge and boil!  The sparge started
great, sweet clear wort, high gravity, awesome extract rates.  Patting myself on
the back I decided to call it "Attention to Details Ale".  I was collecting the
last two gallons of twelve, to add to the first ten that were starting to boil
on my electric stove nearby, when IT happened.  BLAM (and I mean BLAM) the
whole kitchen was bathed in this very eerie ultraviolet/blue light and
accompanied by a VERY loud POP.  This brought me to my senses, and brought my
wife running (thinking she'd finally become a REAL homebrew widow).  I rushed
to the stove and thought "huh, better not grab my lovely 15 gallon stainless
pot right now, or I could get fried".  So I ran to the other room, turned off
all the circuit breakers I could find and came back to face a real problem.  I
grabbed the pot and hefted it off the stove (not an easy feat with 10+ gallons
of boiling wort inside).  As I stood there holding it, my wife said "better
take it outside it's leaking like hell".  I went into the denial stage here,
saying "no it can't be leaking, this is my 15 gallon stainless pot!"  The
burning sensation on my feet finally convinced me to take it outside. There I
was rapidly moving from denial to anger to sorrow.  Ten gallons of my best-ever
wort, sitting in my 15 gallon stockpot, with a 1/4" hole in the bottom, slowly
pooling up and freezing to my patio (it was about 0F outside).  Believe it or
not there is still a happy ending.
  My wife came out to console the unconsolable.  Despite my protesting she
convinced me that all was not lost.  Dumping my grain from its plastic bin, we
saved most of the beer, boiled it in four smaller batches in my enamel pot and
renamed it "Sparky's Disaster Ale".  It was by all accounts, remarkable.  The
handy guys at the local SS welding place fixed the hole in my pot, I built a
cajun-cooker-clone, and relaced the defective electrical coil.

Moral: Be oh so careful about overloading your electric stove, those little
buggers just don't hold up too well to 70+lbs. And don't ever give up!

Relaxing and wishing I had a Sparky's right now, Joe     
 -
JOSEPH WILLIS BOARDMAN Email: joe at syd.deg.csiro.au

Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #961, 09/03/92