FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Hops and disasters (P. Couch)
  Second-timer's question (Lester Paul Diamond)
  Hydrometer reading as a function of temperature ("C. Lyons")
  Wyeast Belgian Ale (how not to prepare a starter) (Paul Yatrou)
  Dry Yeast starters / brewing disasters (Alexander R Mitchell)
  To stir or not to stir... (pmiller)
  more on oxidation (Jon Binkley)
  Specific gravity of hot stuff (Paul dArmond)
  Sparge times and extraction (Paul dArmond)
  Isomerizing lupulin powder? (Paul dArmond)
  Follow-up on SG vs Temp. ("C. Lyons")
  Re: Radon (Richard Stueven)
  where did the beer go? (C05705DA)
  Bud keg help needed again (Arthur Delano)
  For the adventurous: Chicha, corn beer of the Andes (eurquhar)
  Yeast culturing (eurquhar)
  Electric Corona (Chuck Cox)
  DMS and Briess malt (Rick Myers)
  Anerobic, Meade (Jack Schmidling)
  Bells Yeast question (Dean Goulding)
  Whirling Wort (Jeff Frane)
  re: flour catcher  (Carl West)
  Oops - Correction (Bob_Konigsberg)
  Re: Jack-free forum (korz)
  SUBSRCIBE (QUOC)
  Keg Conditioning/Larger behavior (Chris Estes)
  Baderbrau & Radium (chris campanelli)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 18:55:51 PDT
From: ithaca!amber!phoebe at uunet.UU.NET (P. Couch)
Subject: Re: Hops and disasters


I have finally harvested the hops and got 1 lb dry weight out off the
cascade, 0 out of the Williamette, 4 oz off the the Nugget and 0
out of the Mt Hood, all of them 5 months old.
The Williamette has this weird bug that wilts all the leaves from the root
up, the leaves turned brown and papery, but they don't fall off. None
of the other hops had the problem.
The first batch of dry hops have now been used in the Cascading
Hopping Spider AltBier, not that using Cascade is true to style of an Alt,
and most of the spiders are removed from the cones.
I will post the results when the beer is ready.
As for brewing horror stories, none of mine could top what's out there.
All the damage were confined to the kitchen and storage area in the
basement.
The funniest one is the probably the ballistic air-lock. It hit the
celling and spewed all over the place.
The last one was when I brewed with my brewpartner a couple days ago
 at my house and it was Laurel and Hardy time. I started brewing after work,
and of course we decided to do 2 batches at once, fools!
so at 9pm, we started sparging, at 10 pm,
we started to brew, after painstaking working out the recipes we
added the hops to the wrong batch, and at midnight,we put in the
finishing hops in the revised recipe. At that time, we realized 
that we forgot to add munich malt to one of the mashes.
We then carried a full 5g pot to the basement and use the chiller.
 So there was a trail of hot beer all over the kitchen and down the basement.
 The chiller attachment doesn't hook up tightly on the
washer hose so there was a small fountain and one of us had to keep a hand
on it to stop in from spraying. When it was done, we realized that we forgot
to add Irish moss, so we went back upstairs and added it to the second batch.
We then repeat the last process at ~1am with the second batch. It was
then time to put stuff in the fermenters, my partner for some reasons
decided to pour the stuff into the carboy with a funnel, I wanted to use a
hose, but he insisted on pouring, so I let him (We both wanted very
much just to finish the hell up and go the sleep),
halfway down, the filter of the funnel got clogged, after some more struggle
and losing pints of beer to the floor and some trub into the carboy, we
got all the beer into the carboys at 2 something am.
At this point, my partner decided to drive home cos he had an early meeting
the next day. So I had to mop up the floor, and of course the mop broke.
Well, anyway stuff got cleaned up the next day, and the beer is bubbling,
and the next morning, I realized that we forgot to take an sg reading.
We are not normally this dingbatty, but we just moved brew location and had
too many home brew with our deep dish pizza.

P.

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Date: Fri,  4 Sep 1992 09:06:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lester Paul Diamond <ld0h+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Second-timer's question

Well, my first batch, a nut brown ale, is bottled.  The flavor seemed to
be fine going into the bottles, though it was a bit sweet.  I suspect
that it has to do with the corn sugar I put into the wort with the dry
malt.

I immediately started another batch.  This is an export ale.  I wanted
it fairly hoppy, so I boiled the wort longer, about 45 minutes, and left
out the corn sugar.  I'm not inclined to use the sugar again at any rate
given what I've been reading.

My question is, how soon should I start seeing bubbling through the
airlock?  Last time it began within 12 hours.  This time it hasn't
started after that much time.  I know I'm being a bit anal retentive,
but I checked before I came into work and just thought I'd ask.  One
think I did differently this time was to just throw the yeast on the top
on the wort without stirring it in.  Last time I stirred it in.

If it doesn't start bubbling away what can I do to move it along?

Thanks in advance.  You all have been very helpful to me a couple times
in the past.  This is an easy one, I know.

Lester
 

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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 08:48 EDT
From: "C. Lyons" <LYONS at adc1.adc.ray.com>
Subject: Hydrometer reading as a function of temperature

Someone a little while back asked about hydrometer readings as
a function of temperature.  The brochure that came with my
hydrometer had the following correction table (add correction
to reading):

Temp in deg. F		Spec. Grav. Correction
- --------------		----------------------

50				-0.5
60				 0.0
70				 1.0
77				 2.0
84				 3.0
95				 5.0
105				 7.0


Example:  A measured specific gravity of 1.035 at 84F translates to
a corrected (relative to 60F) specific gravity of 1.038.

I plotted the above data and fit it to a third order polynomial.
The fit was quite good (R=0.99994).

corr. = 6.66365 - 0.34722*T + 0.00474726*T**2 - 1.3431775E-5*T**3

With this equation one can write a short program that takes the
measured specific gravity, and temperature, and outputs the relative
specific gravity at 60F.


                            ... Hope this helps,
                                Christopher Lyons
				lyons at adc1.adc.ray.com

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Date:    Fri, 4 Sep 1992 10:02:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: YATROU at INRS-TELECOM.UQUEBEC.CA (Paul Yatrou)
Subject: Wyeast Belgian Ale (how not to prepare a starter)

Hello all,

last week the cooler weather started to set in and I decided to make
my first batch in over four months.
I chose a Belgian dubbel recipe (pg. 122 "Belgian Ale", Pierre Rajotte,
all-grain), cracked the grain Friday night, and promptly realized
I hadn't prepared any yeast! I pulled out an 8 month old Wyeast Belgian
Ale packet out of the fridge and popped it. Now, 8 months old, let's see...
that should take about one week before it would be ready, and I wanted
to brew the next day. Hmmm..

So on Saturday I mashed, sparged, boiled, and cooled wihtout any mishaps
and by 3PM it was time to pitch. The packet hadn't budged at all.
I decided to wait till night time. At 9PM I started fretting about
the "unprotected" 5 gallons of wort sitting in my closet and pitched
the far-from-ready Wyeast.

On Sunday morning I rushed to the closet and ... nothing. Sunday night,
NOTHING! Monday morning ... de nada. I started to worry a little, and
thought of throwing in some dry Whitbred ale yeast, but it was time
to go into work.

After work, as I was climbing up the stairs to the apartment I heard
the distinctly heavenly sound "glub ... glub ... glub". I rushed
in and, low and behold, there was a party in my carboy.

It's been fermenting wildly all week long now. The closet smells like
a giant Chiquita, there's still a thick krausen, and I'm a happy
camper. I seem to recall a thread on HBD about 2 months ago about
the characteristics of the Belgian Ale Wyeast, namely banana esters,
drawn out but active primary fermentation, preference to lower
temperatures (below 65F if possible).

So, I guess the jist of all this is: RDWHAHB, have confidence in
your brewing technique, and trust your Wyeast (even if it's old)!!
Of course, I'm not affiliated with Wyeast etc..., I'm just a happy
camper.

Paul Yatrou.

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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 92  10:21:08 EDT
From: Alexander R Mitchell <ARMITC01 at ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Dry Yeast starters / brewing disasters

Prog/Analyst II C & T
Phone: (502)588-5626
Dry yeast question:
Could dry yeast be re-constituted in plain water and then add up to 5 or
6% of alcohol to kill bacterial and (hopefully not alcohol resistant)
wild/mutant yeast?  If one added a hop pellet or two to an ounce of
100 proof (50%) vodka, would that make the some hop oils water soluble?
The vodka/hops mixture could then be added to a pint of re-constituted
yeast-water.

Brewing disasters:
I was using the Charlie P. 3/8 diameter blowoff system in a two room
apartment and after a couple of batches my luck ran out. Of course the
hop bits clogged the blowoff tube. Fortunately I had shoved the carboy
in a corner behind one of those poppasson <-sp? (looks like a satellite
dish) chairs. There were dried hop bits all over that corner of the
room. Lucky for me the hop bits (not to be confused with naughty bits -
for you Flying Circus fans) washed off the walls and the ceiling was
one of those bumpy ones that a can of white spray paint took care of.
the big round pad from the chair became a dog pad for a friend's pet.
The carpet required Mr Stanley Steamer's attention. Also I had set
bamboo chair frame outside and the ants cleaned it for me :-)

The second disaster was terrible! A new girlfriend came over for
dinner and was quite impressed with my homebrew until she opened
her second bottle. It was a beer geyser and blew foam all over her
sun dress because she tried to close the swingtop cap and ended
up directing the spray at herself. I, being a southern gentleman,
helped her out of her wet sticky clothes and into the shower ;-)
Like I said, it was a horrible experience.


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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 10:15:35 CDT
From: pmiller at mmm.com
Subject: To stir or not to stir...


Hi everyone,

I tried mailing the following question to Micah Millspaw (c/o Bob Jones)
but it bounced.  I've decided to post it to the HBD because I think it
would be of general interest.

Before I get to the question though...

1)  I'm going to be including some information that I got from Micah
in an e-mail message.  If I'm breaking some cardinal netiquette rule
about including information from a private e-mail in a public posting
then I'll take my lumps and apologize.  In my defense, I want to point
out that I have good intentions (I'm trying to clarify a point, not
criticize) and that most of this information has been posted to the HBD
anyway and it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to deduce the rest...

2)  If, after reading this post, you have strong opinions about Micah's
mashing technique, you may want to verify that I've described his
procedure accurately _before_ you post your scathing critique.  Humble
pie tastes terrible...

Those disclaimers out of the way, on to the questions (finally!):


Micah uses an underlet system for his mash which he described to me like
so:

  Underlet tubing --->  |
                     [  |          ]
                     [  |          ]   <--- Mash tun
                     [  |          ]
                     [  |          ]
                     [  |          ]
                     [==|==========]   <--- False bottom
                     [__|__________]

Micah has said that he adds hot water in different amounts to achieve a
step infusion mash.  He's also pointed out the importance of not
stirring the mash (I think he quote George Fix here as saying that a lot
of real breweries get into trouble by stirring their mash needlessly or
something along those lines.)

OK, question #1:  Why is stirring the mash unacceptable?  Miller's book
(Dave's -- I haven't written one yet ;-) describes in excruciating
detail just how to stir the mash while heating the pot on the stove to
boost temperatures and it's pretty obvious that Jack's EasyMash system
would require stirring, too.

Now, the thought that comes to mind is that after a certain point,
(e.g., 5 minutes before you begin sparging) stirring may disturb the
grains and put a lot of flour into suspension.  It makes sense that you
may not want to mess around in the mash just before you try to establish
the grain bed.  But certainly you have to stir mash when you first
mash-in, right?  So at what point should you stop mucking around in the
mash or am I completely missing the point?

Question #2:  I did some back of the envelope calculations (Quick!  Can
anybody guess what my undergraduate major was?! ;-) and I figured that
for 8 lbs of grain and 8 quarts of water at 155 F, I'd need to add about
5 quarts of boiling water to bring the mash to 170 F for sparging.  If I
don't stir the mash, won't the hot water extract tannins from the husks
that it contacts?  Or does the heat diffuse quickly enough that this
isn't a problem?  Or, should I be using more water at a lower
temperature to bring the mash to 170 F?  How thin can you get the mash
before you run into problems?

Question #3:  Assuming that stirring the mash is bad, why use an
underlet system to add the hot water to the bottom of the mash (rather
than, say, dumping the hot water on the top of the mash)?  Is it because
the grains are heavier than the water and therefore water that's poured
on top of the grains just sits on top whereas water that's added to the
bottom of the mash ends up percolating through the grains from the
bottom up?


Please, please, somebody straighten this out for me.  I'm hopelessly
confused.  Thanks!



Phil Miller       "My problem with most athletic challenges is training.
pmiller at mmm.co     I'm lazy and find that workouts cut into my drinking
                   time."            from _A Wolverine is Eating My Leg_



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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 09:40:54 -0600
From: Jon Binkley <binkley at beagle.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: more on oxidation


bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros) wrote:

>With the talk about oxidation, it is said that shaking COOL wort
>is good--leads to aeration which yeast like.  Then it is said
>that shaking beer (before bottling) is bad--leads to oxidation
>which taste buds don't like.  So what is the difference in the
>two settings?  Why is unfermented cooled wort not as susceptible
>to oxidation?

The difference is in what the yeast are about to do.  In the
former case the yeast are about to go into a massive, aerobic
growth spurt, consuming any oxygen they happen to come across.
You want to give them lots of it to come across.

In the latter case, the yeast are going to quickly consume the
relatively small amount of priming sugar you add and then settle
out; they'll use up some oxygen doing this, but they're not
guaranteed to use it all, especially if it get's vigorously
aerated.

I actually feel that the "Conventional Wisdom" overstates
the risk of oxidation at priming, but I don't want to risk my
beer with experimentation and it's not too difficult to avoid
aeration during priming.  There's no question, however,
that vigorous aeration helps the yeast get off to a good
start after pitching.

Jon


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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 08:21:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul dArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Specific gravity of hot stuff

Bryan Gros will have some very heavy christmas beer.  SG will always read
lower when things are hotter.  This is due to the fact that things expand
when hot.  More volume, same mass = less density.  This size/temperature
relationship is linear, as long as you don't have a solid/liqid/gas phase
change.  Charlie Papazian on p.26 of The Complete Joy of Homebrewing
(1984) says that SG drops .002-.003 for each 10 degrees F above 60F.  My
hydrometer has a correction factor printed on it.  This should be close
enough for horseshoes and handgrenades.  FWIW the beer I brewed Wedsday
had an apparent SG of ~1.030  at  200F and a real SG of 1.051 at 60F.  The
coefficient of expansion may vary with the amount of sugars in solution,
so it wouldn't hurt to check this out. 

Does anyone have a table of coefficients of expansion for worts of
different gravities?  Since gravities vary by 100% (more or less) this
could have a substancial effect, or maybe not....

Paul de Armond


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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 08:43:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul dArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Sparge times and extraction

There has been some discussion of the relation between sparge time and
yield.  This week I did two test batches to calibrate the alpha % of my
recent hop harvest.  I made two identical batches, same grain, same grind,
same everything, except the sparge times.  I use a Gott cylindrical cooler
with a vegetable steamer and mesh "press bag" to hold the grains.  For
batch B, I would drain ~.5 gal from the cooler, add more sparge water,
then wait five minutes.

Batch               A                     B
Sparge time        15 min.               45 min.
Gallons in carboy  4.5                   4.75
SG                 1.045                 1.051

As you can se, there was better yield from the slower sparge.  In both
cases, the grains had no sweet taste afterwards.  I think that 15 minutes
is too fast, and that you can go too fast or too slow.  It is going to
require more experiments to settle the issue conclusively, but I'll relax
and take a break while sparging in the future.

======================================================================
Nothing Fancy Test Batch Ale

  8#     Munton and Fison pale ale malt
 .25#     40L Crystal malt

mash with 2 gal  at  152F for 90 min.  Sparge with 6 gal.  1 tsp gypsum in water.

  2 oz.  Homegrown hops (A=Willamette B=Cascade)  90 min. 
         (added after foam subsides)
 1/2 tsp Irish moss  15 min.
  1 oz.  Homegrown hops  10 min.

Cool to 70F with immersion chiller.
Pour wort into spigoted bucket with vegetable steamer to catch hops.  Let
settle 20 min then drain into carboy.
Pitch 1 pk Edme ale yeast.

Paul de Armond


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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 09:09:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul dArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Isomerizing lupulin powder?

When I was packing my recent hop harvest I kept sheets of newsprint under
the drying screens to catch the yellow resin that falls off the hops
during handling.  I now have a vacuum sealed bag with 1/2 ounce of the
orange lupulin resin powder.  I would be very interested in isomerizing
this for post-fermentation bittering (repairing underhopped beer.)

Does anyone have an article or reference on how this is done?  All I know
is that there are two processes:  one uses sodium or potassium hydroxide,
is quick and can overconvert into non-bitter isomers;  the other uses
sodium carbonate and is slower and less likely to damage the bittering.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Paul de Armond


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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 11:25 EDT
From: "C. Lyons" <LYONS at adc1.adc.ray.com>
Subject: Follow-up on SG vs Temp.

Following up on the specific gravity of water as a
function of temperature....  The earlier equation was
based on data for 50F-to-105F.  Since the equation
was from a polynomial fit, it should not be trusted
for predicting SG outside this temperature range.
The data below was obtained using the "Handbook of
Chemistry and Physics (CRC)", and is valid for a
temperature range between 0 and 212F.

Temp (C)  Temp (F)  Density  Correction relative to 59F
- -------   --------  -------  --------------------------
0	   32	   0.99987	-0.74
3.98	   39.16   1.00000	-0.87
5	   41	   0.99999	-0.86
10	   50	   0.99973	-0.6
15	   59	   0.99913	0
18	   64.4	   0.99862	0.51
20	   68	   0.99823	0.9
25	   77	   0.99707	2.06
30	   86	   0.99567	3.46
35	   95	   0.99406	5.07
38	   100.4   0.99299	6.14
40	   104	   0.99224	6.89
45	   113	   0.99025	8.88
50	   122	   0.98807	11.06
55	   131	   0.98573	13.4
60	   140	   0.98324	15.89
65	   149	   0.98059	18.54
70	   158	   0.97781	21.32
75	   167	   0.97489	24.24
80	   176	   0.97183	27.3
85	   185	   0.96865	30.48
90	   194	   0.96534	33.79
95	   203	   0.96192	37.21
100	   212	   0.95838	40.75

The correction term was computed relative to
15C (59F).  It may be easily calculated relative
to any temperature.  A third order polynomial fit
to this data was also very good (R**2 = 0.999969):

Correction( at 59F) = 
   1.313454 - 0.132674*T + 2.057793e-3*T**2 - 2.627634e-6*T**3

	where T is in degrees F.

This equation should be good for the entire temperature range
of interest :-)!


                              ... hope this helps,
				  Christopher Lyons
				  lyons at adc1.adc.ray.com

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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 09:36:48 PDT
From: gak at wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: Radon

Chris McDermott says:

>I think that what the Elmhurst water was comtaminated with was probably
>Randon gas and not Radium.  As I understand it, Randon is a decay product of
>Radium which is in turn a decay product of Uranium.

Isn't radon the stuff that's odorless and colorless and can only be
detected with special detecting equipment?  When I lived in New Jersey,
the main purpose of radon was to force everybody in Montclair to dig up
their yards and replace the nasty old radon-contaminated dirt with nice
fresh state-approved dirt.

ObBeer:  I aborted the Botched Brown last night.  :-(The batch made
with uncrushed grain.)  I'm going to do it right on Saturday, followed
by a Pale Ale on Sunday and a Porter on Monday!  I'll show 'em!

gak
107/H/3&4

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Date:         Fri, 04 Sep 92 11:28:58 CST
From: C05705DA at WUVMD.Wustl.Edu
Subject:      where did the beer go?

About four or five months ago, I made some stout that turned out really
good.  However, after popping several bottles lately, the beer is gone.
When I pop the cap, foam pours out continously, as if it were spoiled.
After the head dies down, I tasted it, and it tasted like sweet, malty
carbonated water.  It wasn't stout at all anymore.  It tasted kind of
like Perrier with a hint of malt and some Kyro Syrup.  Where oh where
did my beer go?

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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 12:43:17 EDT
From: Arthur Delano <ajd at itl.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Bud keg help needed again


What tool(s) is(are) needed to open a Budweiser keg?  I've been able to
drain out all the old beer by pressing on the ball valve and letting
the overcarbonated beer do its thing (all over me, unfortunately).  But
now i want to fill it and don't know how to remove the valve/stem assembly
to get to the insides.

Thanks in advance...

AjD

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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 10:00:18 -0800
From: eurquhar at sfu.ca
Subject: For the adventurous: Chicha, corn beer of the Andes


        First, before you even think of planting corn from what plant
quarantine would call a "briefcase introduction" consider the disease
epidemic (blight, root rot, virus etc.) which would result from infected
corn and the huge losses which would result to the American corn crop.

        Second, I found a recipe and method for chicha recently in "The Art
of South American Cooking" by Felipe Rojas-Lomabardi (excellent chef and
native Peruvian) published recently by Harper Collins 1991 (ISBN
0-06-016425-5).

Chicha de Jora
I pound jora (germinated and then sun dried whole corn, sort of like corn
malt)
8 allspice berries or cloves
2 cups dense packed dark brown sugar
Lemon wedges for service
(1 tsp. dried Yeast for the less adventurous, use your favourite)

1. Grind jora until partially crushed.
2. Put all ingredients except sugar in stainless steel pot with 8 qts.
   cold water. Stir and soak for 1 hour.
3. Place over med. heat and bring to the boil.  Lower heat and simmer 
   gently for 4 1/2 hours.  Stir regularily to keep from sticking.  If a
   lot of liquid evaporates add some more water.  You want 3 to 4 qts 
   total mixture at the end.
4. Remove and let sit undisturbed for 1 hour.
5. Strain mixture using a stainless steel strainer into glass container 
   through a double layer of good cheesecloth.  Twist the separated mass
   to extract all the liquid and discard.  Add sugar and DON'T STIR.
6. Cover with a piece of cloth. Pitch yeast into mixture here.
7. Let sit in dark draft free warm spot for 5-8 days.  If all goes well
   it will ferment.  The longer it sits the thicker and more potent it
   gets.

Sounds like the andean version of lambic.

JORA (corn malt)
the author said that the preferred type in ecuador is from yellow corn
where in Peru both yellow and purple corn are used.

Soak whole yellow corn 1-2 days in cool water.  Line a baking tray with
several sheets of paper and cover with a double layer of cheesecloth. 
Spray with water until all is soaked.  Drain water and then cover with
double cheesecloth.  Keep moist but not wet until corn is sprouted about
8-10 days (sounds like an awfully long time so use your best judgement). 
Dry in sun until thoroughly dry, several hot days but take in at night. 
Will keep indefinetely in dark, cool and dry place in airtight container.

Well gang there it is.  Haven't made it as I just got the book out of the
library which by the way itself is fantastic.  I'm going to give it a try
someday but first some corn malt.

                                            Have fun,
                  Eric Urquhart (eurquhar at sfu.ca) 
                  Centre for Pest Management, Dept. of Biological Sciences
                  Simon Fraser University, Burnaby , B.C. Canada


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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 10:00:34 -0800
From: eurquhar at sfu.ca
Subject: Yeast culturing

        The method we use to sterilize instruments for subculturing is to
dip them in 95% ethyl alcohol(for research it's tax free) but methyl
alcohol will work and then burn off the alcohol in a bunsen flame.  Dip as
much of the instrument as possible into the alcohol.  Do this a couple of
times and believe me their sterile.  Then touch the hot loop or probe to
the new sterile plate or a clear spot on your culture plate to cool it.  If
the culture has no contamination this should cause no problem as generally
only pure cultures are used.
        It is common practise to roll ends of test-tubes and flasks through
the flame slowly to dry them off and kill any bacteria which may of fallen
on the neck.
                                       May the culture be yours,

                  Eric Urquhart (eurquhar at sfu.ca) 
                  Centre for Pest Management, Dept. of Biological Sciences
                  Simon Fraser University, Burnaby , B.C. Canada


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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 8:30:44 EDT
From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox)
Subject: Electric Corona

In order to take full advantage of the AcoustiMash (the false-bottoms
are being laser-cut now), I am going to electrify my Corona grain mill.
I've got a big, powerful variable speed drill that will be perfect. 

I re-read the article in the all-grain issue of Zymurgy, but that is
really only a half-design since it just leaves the electric drill
sticking out in space.  I'd like a self-supporting system, so I don't
have to hold the drill the whole time.  I'm considering using a second
sawhorse, or perhaps doing something creative with a 90 degree drive. 

I'd appreciate pointers to more useful articles, or ideas that you have
seen work. 

Once the mill is electified, how fast can I run it before something
bad happens?  What are the symptoms of a too-fast grind?

On an only slightly related note:

Has anyone ever overloaded a cajun cooker type gas burner? I've got one
of the smaller ones.  I've had no problem with 10 gallon batches, but a
15 gallon keg might be too much.  I'm going to have some extensions
welded on to hold the half-barrel kettle, and I'm wondering if I should
reinforce the legs too, the three legs are made from what looks like
1/2" iron bar. 

- -- 
Chuck Cox <chuck at synchro.com>
In de hemel is geen bier, daarom drinken wij het hier.

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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 11:25:06 MDT
From: Rick Myers <rcm at col.hp.com>
Subject: DMS and Briess malt

> Subject: Malt flames from Micah Millspaw

 <Story about bad beer, DMS, and Briess malt deleted>

I have had the exact same DMS problem with Briess malt also.  I believe
the problem stems from their direct firing of the malt.  This produces
excess nitrosamines, so in order to keep within federal regs for
nitrosamines, they add sulphur to their malt - thus creating the DMS problems.
Needless to say, I don't use Briess anymore...

Rick
rcm at col.hp.com

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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 08:43 CDT
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Anerobic, Meade

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 >From: Jon Binkley <binkley at beagle.Colorado.EDU>
 
 >Another seeming paradox of open fermentation which confused me
 for quite some time is: given fermentation is an ANaerobic
 process, how can it take place in an open, aerobic environment?
 
 Would not the fact that a blanket of CO2 over the beer make it an anerobic 
 environment?
 ................
 
 Well, I just had my first taste of meade and I did it the easy way.. I drank 
 someone else's.
 
 One of the neat things about this forum is the ease with which one can make 
 friends (and deals) with people with a common interest.   I recently swapped 
 a video and a bottle of beer and a small nip of 1971 brandy with John Wyllie 
 for two bottles of his pampered meade.
 
 He sent me a bottle each of cyser and methaglin.  The  methaglin is too young 
 to try yet but the cyser was from Nov 91 so we popped the cork with a 
 Chineese dinner.
 
 I, of course am not a certified judge, nor do I have any ribbons so I 
 wouldn't dare use any of those fancy words.  I will just describe the 
 experience in words us Joe sixpaxes understand.
 
 The cyser was crystal clear and the cork popped right out with little help.  
 It was bubbly and efervescent like a fine champagne.
 
 Problably the most interesting thing about it was the aroma. I have never 
 smelled a drink quite like this.  It was like walking through a meadow in 
 full bloom.  Not the pukey sweet smell when you jam your nose into a 
 carnation but sort of like a funeral parlor at 20 paces.
 
 We were looking for something that tasted like honey and it did not, so 
 therein lay the only disappointment.
 
 What it did taste like, escapes my humble vocabulary but it was dry and mild 
 and resembled a good champagne.  The first glass went well with the food.  As 
 the alcohol content was higher than I care for, I drank only one glass.  My 
 wife finished the bottle and dragged me off to the bedroom.  As an 
 aphrodisiac, it gets the gold.
 
 In summing up, I would call it an amazing champagne taste-alike considering 
 that it contains no grapes.  I used to make champagne with grape juice 
 concentrates and was only moderately satisfied with the results.  This cyser 
 is indistinguishable from good champagne. 
 
 I doubt that the gods on Olympus drank this stuff but I now have a better 
 idea of what is was they did drink.
 
 Neat stuff, John.  Thanks for sharing it with us.
 
 js
 

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Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 10:11:20 EDT
From: okra at buscard.UUCP.buscard (Dean Goulding)
Subject: Bells Yeast question

Has anyone reused the yeast from Bell's Amber Ale (Kalamazoo
Brewing Co, MI).  I'm using it now and its exhibiting some strange
characteristics.  I've called, and they weren't too interested in
talking about their yeast.  Its been going for 8 days now (pale ale,
all grain, batch#15) and has a milky head, like a milkshake.

Anybody else used this?

Thanks!

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
   The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, Massachusetts - Data: (508) 682-5329
   SysAdmin:  murph at buscard.fidonet.org / ...!ulowell!wizvax!buscard!murph

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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 10:57:33 PDT
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Whirling Wort

Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com> writes about something I wrote:
> 
> I've tried the "make a whirpool and siphon off the side of the pot"
> technique for racking after the boil, but I found it difficult to
> stir vigorously and start the siphon at the same time, and my siphon 
> (copper tubing with slots in the bottom) still clogged with (fresh) hops.
> 
> [my] comment suggests that whirlpooling (to coin a word) and siphoning
> don't have to be done simultaneously:  you can stir up the whirpool to
> concentrate the solids in the center, let them settle, and then siphon.
> If so, do you still need some kind of filter to keep solids out of your
> wort?
> 
As far as I can tell, whirlpooling only really works if you give it a
little time to settle: usually about 15-20 minutes works fine in a 10
gallon batch.  I start the whirlpool with a long-handled spoon, trying
not to splash the wort anymore than necessary.  When I draw the wort
off, I get a dramatic cone of hops, especially if I use (as I usually
do) pellets.

The trick, I think, is the take-up attachment for the wortchiller siphon
hose.  I have a copper tube of the same diameter which runs around the
inner circumference of the kettle.  The bottom of the loop (the part
touching the bottom of the kettle) has scores of teeny-tiny holes
drilled in it (I used the smallest bit I could get for my Dremel
Mototool drill).  Needless to say, the end of the copper tube has been
hammered closed, so the wort has to be drawn through the little holes.
These holes are small enough that loose hops never clog them, and if the
whirlpool has been done properly, pelletized hops almost never do.
_Sometimes_, it's necessary to give it a gentle jiggle if the outflow
has dropped noticeably -- this usually clears the holes completely.

I tend to use pelletized hops because they sop up less wort.

- --Jeff Frane



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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 15:02:01 EDT
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: re: flour catcher 

>   If you use a Corona grain mill, as I do, you cannot avoid getting some
>flour along with your cracked grains.  Too much flour can lead to a stuck
>sparge. 


You might want to try sifting out the flour for other uses.

This is from _One Hundred Years of Brewing_, originally published 
in 1903 as a supplement to _The Western Brewer_. Re-published in 
1974 by the Arno Press which claims no copyright.


HOME BREWING IN SCOTLAND.
The following from the _Scotsman_
[about which I know nothing more, _100 Years..._ has no 
bibliography. "Victorian Scholarship" is an oxymoron. -CW]
                                  well describes the 
processes of domestic brewing in vogue before the 
public brew-house became an established institution:
 .
 .
 .
[much stuff about malting and preparing of vats deleted]
 .
 .
 .
Some of the malt was then put through a sieve. The part
that sifted out was called " smeddum "--which word Burns
takes occasion to use metaphorically. It was kneaded up into
tiny bannocks, baked on a griddle and eaten. If when baked
the smeddum inside the crust was in taste and appearance
like a thick dark syrup, the malt was good and strong. If not
syrupy, the malt was poor. These smeddum bannocks were
rather tasty, and the entire household judged it necessary to
pronounce on the malt.
 .
 .
 .
[the rest of the brewing process deleted, if you're interested,
check out the digests circa Jan 28 1992]

Carl

WISL,BM.

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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 15:04 PDT
From: Bob_Konigsberg at 3mail.3com.com
Subject: Oops - Correction

I stand corrected on the point of flaming the inoculating loop.

It should be heated red hot, and then chilled in a vacant spot in the 
agar.  Once it's cool, then use it to draw out yeast.  The reference to
a "casual" flaming is to the neck of the tube/bottle prior to opening 
it.

Sorry for the misinformation.

BobK


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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 17:06 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: Jack-free forum

Dear Stone Skin--
>Then here's more mail for ya.  
>	that's fine.  I was wondering about the statement.  I don't
>plan to discuss him (much) anyway.  Just curious.  So how are people
>being indoctrinated to this forum?    brew on.  I take harshness with
>a pound of sugar anyway.  Call me Stone Skin.......JDW
>

Indoctrinated?  If you mean how do they know the rules, they are displayed
at the top of each issue of the Brewer's Forum.  I used to take harshness
with a grain of (Epsom) salt, but that was in netnews, not in this private
digest that I co-founded.

When beginners start to fear posting -- even I began to second-guess my
questions, it's time to do something about it.  I've been a contributor
since the HBDs inception in 1987 and the mood was always friendly -- look
at some of the back issues.  No one had an axe to grind or a pet peave over
which to stab someone in the back.  We were all friends, even when the numbers
got up to 4000 digest members.

Then came Jack Schmiddling.  He introduced hatred and intolerance to the HBD
and caused the mood of the digest to change.  Suddenly, posters who were
silently sitting in the wings listening about beer, started jumping in with
"lame" comments.  Any idiot with one or two poorly-made beers can make
someone feel bad (and themselves "important") by calling them "lame" or
humiliating them.  That's not the spirit that I want to be a part of.  If
you'll notice, I haven't posted anything to the HBD in a while -- instead I
send private mail -- it gets to the person faster and they won't get bowled
 -over if in tomorrow's digest someone calls them lame.

It's much harder to answer a simple beginner's question without making them
feel stupid.  I've always gone out of my way to answer "stupid" questions in
a way that doesn't make the person feel dumb.  I'll say "Oh, that's what I
thought too, but then I read that..."  Some will not take the effort to be
nice.  They may be too busy or just lazy, but I can't blame them.  There
are people, though, who try to make themselves self-important at the cost of
others.  Those people should have their fingernails pulled out in slow motion.

Sorry.  I got carried away.  The bottom line is, that its not that hard to
be nice, and its *especially* important to be nice to beginners.  I recall
when I didn't know anything and in fact read Charlie's book twice before I
had the courage to try my first batch, even though all the ingredients and
equipment was sitting there ready to go.  If someone blasted my beer or
technique back then, I may not have brewed a second batch.  I don't want
that to happen to anyone -- the more homebrewer's the happier.

Al.

P.S.
I feel that these are very important points and that my feelings on this
subject should be known by the HBD membership, so I'm Cc'ing the HBD.

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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 17:08:41 PDT
From: QUOC at sjevm5.vnet.ibm.com
Subject: SUBSRCIBE

Please add me to you mailing list.
Thank you,
Quoc Luu


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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 08:35:45 -0400
From: cestes at argos5.DNET.NASA.GOV (Chris Estes)
Subject: Keg Conditioning/Larger behavior

Hi all...

Well, I've got another two things for the collective wisdom to comment on...

1 - I've just tried my first keg batch - a light ale of 6.6lbs extract, 1.5 lbs
    misc. grains, etc.  When I first tapped it, almost all that came out was
    foam.  This quickly subsided into beer with very little carbonation in it.
    The head was _great_!  But I want some more carbonation.  It sat for two
    weeks at room temp; I thought that should be enuf.  Anyway, it tastes fine,
    except for the lack of co2.  Now, I've increased the pressure up to 30psi
    and shook it vigorously a few times a day, and its getting more carbonation
    in it (more yeast bite too :-).  Any suggestions on how to avoid under-
    carbonating a keg in the future?

2 - I always make ales, but bought larger yeast by mistake the other day.  What
    the hell... I'll give it a go.  I suppose this brew should be something like
    Anchor Steam (yeah, in my wildest dreams!).  The stuff fermented very
    actively in my primary; emitting a foul sulphur smell.  When I racked it to
    the secondary 5 days later, all activity has seemed to stop.  The ferm.
    lock has not bubbled and shows no signs of a pressure difference.  Any words
    re the care of larger yeasts for an ale brewer?

As always, thanks for the input

 -Chris Estes-

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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 09:15:39 -0400
From: parsons1 at husc.harvard.edu

Subject: My first batch of lager beer

Greetings, all,

I have been brewing all-grain ales for almost three years now.  The recent
blessing manifested in a FREE REFRIGERATOR gives me, at long last, the 
capacity to brew lager beers.  There is one problem, though, that of course
I have never brewed lagers before.  I read Miller's chapters on lager, but, 
as usual, those made me feel more miserable and depressed than able to 
brew.  Thus, I beseech the lager brewers of this community to offer me 
some advice.  First, though, let me present my first recipe and brewing
schedule:

For 5 gal. of dopplebock:

6 lbs Dutch dried extract
4 lbs Pilsener malt
2 lbs Munich malt
1 lb German crystal
1 lb Chocolate

1 1/2 oz Hallertau (60)
3/4 oz Hallertau (30)
1/2 oz Hallertau (15)
1/4 oz Hallertau (5)

Wyeast bavarian lager yeast

8 qts water to strike heat 140F
protein rest  at  122 for 30 min
starch conversion 1/2 hr at 153, then 1/2 hr at 149
mash out  at  169 
sparge with 4 gals.
Boil 60 min

I plan to have a primary fermentation in a 6-gal carboy, then a secondary
in a 5-gal carboy fitted with a Brewcap, and then to bottle.

My questions are, what temperatures should I shoot for for the various
steps in fermentation?  Should I raise the temp a little after secondary
fermentation to help eliminate diacetyl (according to Miller's suggestion)?
Is it even necessary to execute primary fermentation below basement temp
(65 F)?  Will my bottles get primed at 55F, or will the yeast just go to 
sleep?

I should be overjoyed at any help.  If you have a response which you feel
is too pedantic for posting, please send it anyway to me.

Thank you!

Jed Parsons - Harpsichordist, Classicist, Homebrewer
parsons1 at husc.harvard.edu



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Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 12:06 CDT
From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: Baderbrau & Radium

Pavichevich Brewing Company is the proud makers of Baderbrau and is
located in Elmhurst.  In May, Elmhurst switched over to Lake Michigan
water.  Prior to that the water source was ground wells.  The ground
wells had high levels of Radium.  And yes, thats Radium, not Radon.  I
live in the town next to Elmhurst and we had the same problems.  We too
switched over to Lake Michigan water but up to that point we received the
following disclaimer every three months:

" . . . The Village of Villa Park Public Water Supply wishes to advise
its customers that the Maximum Allowable Concentration (the maximum
amount allowed in drinking water) for radium has been exceeded in samples
collected during the past year.  The MAC for radium as designated by the
Illinois Pollution Control Board is 5 pico curies per liter of water. 
Quarterly samples taken over the past year indicate the average level to
be 8 pico curies per liter.
     A portion of the radium which is ingested remains in the bone.  The
radiation which is given off from the radium, because of its high energy,
causes damage to the surrounding tissue.  A dose of SpCi/l may result in
the development of bone cancer in a very small portion of the 
population . . ."

Beer anyone?

This spring Lake Michigan water came to Dupage county so this is all a
moot point.  Needless to say, I'm REAL happy about getting Lake water but
I'll certainly miss those glowing reviews from the beer judges.  One
added benefit is that Lake Michigan water is great for brewing.  All the
right ions in the proper concentration.  Now if I can only figure out how
to get rid of the high levels of PCB's.

chris "Radium Ale" campanelli

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #963, 09/07/92