FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Out of town (Mike Topliff)
  Steeping rolled Oats (cole)
  request for listing of brewpubs ( Todd Vafiades)
  Visit to Rochester NY (Andrew Patti)
  honey brews ("r. j. harvey")
  Bleach concentrations revisited (flowers)
  Re: Bananabrau (korz)
  Apple Cider (Robert Schultz)
  cookers (JLIDDIL)
  water quality (Mike Mahler)
  Re: Wyeast Munich #2308 (was lagering temps) (korz)
  Liberty Clone (correction) (Frank Tutzauer)
  Pre-cracked grain (korz)
  Is a Grain Mill Necessary? (Jonathan E. Quist)
  RE: hop rash/irritation (Paul dArmond)
  mg/l vs ppm (korz)
  wyeast #2308 temps (Brian Bliss)
  1056 and Slow Fermentation; Xmas ale (Tom Dimock)
  Carboys and Casks for sale (Arthur Delano)
  New Club in Albany, NY (Scott J. Leno)
  New Club in Albany, NY (Scott J. Leno)
  Gammel Brygd (Vienna/Marzen/Oktoberfest) (Kurt Swanson)
  HOMEBREW LIST (Rob)
  To boil or not to boil honey for mead? (BELLAGIO_DAVID)
  Water Analysis (Jack St.Clair at fmccm6)
  Wyeast #1007 (was Racking during primary fermentation) (Richard Goldstein)
  Cracked Grains Folklore (bryan)
  Alternative Beverages REAL number (Kinney Baughman)
  submission (Bryan Baker TTC-7262)
  ppm to mg/L  You're there babe! (SLK6P)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 15 Sep 1992 00:40:43 -0700
From: Mike Topliff <MTOPLIFF at pimacc.pima.edu>
Subject: Out of town

I am currently on vacation and will not be able to read my mail until I return
on August 03.

This reply has been generated automatically and I have not yet seen your mail.
If you have an urgent problem, please contact:

		Layton Cutforth
		e-mail: LCUTFORTH
		Internet: lcutforth at pimacc.pima.edu
		Telephone: 602 884-6809

Thanks

 - Mike Topliff
  Pima Community College, District Computer Services
  Internet: mtopliff at pimacc.pima.edu   Voice: 602 884-6809
  Paper: 2202 West Anklam Road, Tucson, Arizona 85709 USA

Note: Only one copy of this reply will be sent.  You will not receive another
      notice if you send additional messages from the same address.

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Date:    Tue, 15 Sep 92 06:25:23 PDT
From: cole%nevis.hepnet at Lbl.Gov
Subject: Steeping rolled Oats

   Concerning yesterdays post about rolled oats which went as follows:

>The other week, I decided to try one of the Cat's Meow recipes.  I was
>trying the Mackeson Clone, with a few changes...therein lay the problem.
> [stuff deleted]
> I added a pound of rolled oats on the front of the recipe (steeped until 
> the H2O boiled, then removed) ...... Then, almost right before my
> very eyes, the oddest protein formations started to form in the carboy!
> I left about 3/4 inch of trub in the brewkettle so I was somewhat surprised
> when this occurred.  The wort was about 77F going into the carboy, but wow!
> After a couple of hours there were "sludge seperations" at various levels
> in the carboy seperated by layers of clear wort.  
> [stuff deleted]
> As the vigorous fermentation stopped, a fair amount of sludge (1 inch) 
> began to settle at the bottom of the carboy.  I racked into a secondary 
> and found the sludge to be sort of a gelatinous (probably the oats) 
> substance and yeast bodies.  Almost immediately after the "Stout" (now 
> a mere 3.5 gallons of its former self.. I started with a 5 gallon batch) 
> [more stuff about oats etc...]
>
>Now the questions...1) Where did all of those "protein" formations come from?
>

I too had a similar experience when STEEPING rolled oats for use in an oatmeal
stout. I was afraid of getting oatmeal from the oats so I didn't even bring the
water to a boil, only to about 160 f. Nonetheless I too found what I think was
basically oatmeal at the bottom of my primary fermenter. All the Oatmeal I've
ever eaten has a thick clear-to-whitish paste that accompanies the actual oats
and I think this is what you end up with in your primary fermenter. I assume 
that this paste is made up mostly of starch and glutens. Unfortunately, it also
has incredible capacity for absorbing water or beer :( . I too lost a half 
gallon or so of beer to the oatmeal sitting in the bottom of my fermenter. Had
I been thinking more quickly, I might have saved it for my morning breakfast.
Somebody could probably market oatbeermeal or oatstoutmeal :).

I posted this experience of mine earlier this summer, but I think the point
got lost in the discussion of mashing/steeping of specialty malts and adjuncts.
As my stout was only my third batch, there are clearly more people out there
with much more experience, but I myself will NEVER, EVER, steep rolled oats
again. I would advise all other extract brewers like myself to put out the
extra effort to find steel-cut oats. I found some (only after my stout was
history) in a local health-food store. Since these have not been gelatinized,
I don't think they will produce the oatmeal-in-the-primary problem.

Regarding the noticed similarity between the attempted stout and a porter.

There was no mention of roasted barley in the posting. Did you use roasted 
barley ? It seems to be the ingredient (aside from difference in gravity and
hopping rate) that makes the difference between a porter and a stout. Though
since Mackeson is more of a sweet stout, maybe it shouldn't have the roasted
barley bite.

Cheers,

Brian Cole


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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 09:36:52 EDT
From: hplabs!nsc!thoreau.nsc.com!todd ( Todd Vafiades)
Subject: request for listing of brewpubs

Hi out there in tera-biera land,

I live and work in Southern Maine and I brew like a madman up here (long, cold winters).
I enjoy visiting brewpubs and sampling all fare at these establishments...BUT, I find
that nearly all of the micro-pubs in the Boston/NH/ME area serve 90% traditional English
type stuff...Oh there is the occasional Weizzen ... but how I long for a real DoppleBock
or an Octoberfest with some real FEST to it! I will be traveling soon, actually the last
week in OCT to San Fran and I've only been to one place there.... TanK 20 (?!?) right?
It's been a couple of years but I recall them having a pretty decent assortment. Anyhow,
If any of you know of ANY other places and can give me addresses and a quick review of
the brew (no matter how 'hole-in-the-wall` the place(s) may be), I would be forever
indebted (or atleast reasonably appreciative). I have seen some listings before here in
the digest, but they were more general to the BAY-AREA and I need something more San
Fran specific. I'm sure there has to be more than just ol' Tank 20. So please feel
free to flood me with all possibilities.

As a side note I plan on brewing, what I will call, a Colonial Thanksgiving Ale. Although
I haven't completely formulated my recipe (I love to create and rarely follow any recipe
to the letter) I would be very interested in anything like this that any of you may have
tried before. I know there will be pumpkin and brown sugar and cinnamin and crystal malt
and fresh well water from S. Maine (really quite excellent) and wyeist #???? but thats
about it for now.... I know I want more so feed me seymore...


thanks in advance ...... true brew for me and you.    TSV   (Todd at Thoreau)




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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 09:35:53 EDT
From: Andrew Patti <patti at ee.rochester.edu>
Subject: Visit to Rochester NY


To Bob Jones' question about brew pubs in Rochester, I know of
two:

 1) The Rochester Brew Pub, Jefferson Rd. between Rts 15 and 15a
 2) The Rohrbach Brewing Co., Gregory Rd.

Of the two, the Rochester Brew Pub is much better.

Andy

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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 92 09:43:57 EDT
From: "r. j. harvey" <HARVEYRJ at VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      honey brews

dear list:
  as a relative newcomer to this list, I'll pose a question that perhaps has
been addressed in back issues; if so, I'd appreciate any guidance in that
direction.
  the question is: I've been experimenting with brewing batches using a high
percentage (50% and up) of honey substituting for malts, and have been
generally pleased with the results, especially if the OG is not too high
(e.g., 50-55 or less).  however, I have yet to find a choice of hops that
seems to work well (I've been using 1-2 oz of Cascade pellets).  in particular,
my wife claims they are too bitter (I don't agree, but that's largely irrele-
vant).  for malts, I use light extracts primarily (either cans or powdered).
I add 1/2 - 3/4 of the hops at the start of boil, and rest as finishing, and
strain out as much of the hop solids when sparging to primary fermenter.
  I realize this is pretty low-tech, but any suggestions would be gretly
appreciated.

r. j. harvey

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 09:12:39 -0600
From: flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu
Subject: Bleach concentrations revisited

> The straight bleach requires almost no resting time to do its job and 
> the sanitized bottles are exposed to the air for the bare minimum.

So, your saying higher bleach concentrations need less contact time for
good sanitation.  

 -cf
 flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu


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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 10:05 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: Bananabrau

Over the last few weeks, we have heard from many, who have reported
mixed results with Wyeast Belgian yeast.  I haven't been keeping
track but I know that several have said that they *did not* get
the banana esters that many (including me) have gotten.  So, in the
interest of finding the correct fermentation temperature for this
strain of yeast, I am announcing a...

CALL FOR TEMPERATURES:

All brewer's who have used the Wyeast Belgian strain, please
send me email which includes the temperature at which you
fermented and whether or not you got the banana esters.
Please send to:

korz at iepubj.att.com

I'll collect responses for a week or so and then post the results.
Hopefully, we can thus find the right temperature and finally get
that elusive Chimay flavor, sans the bananas.

Al.

P.S.  Regarding aromas and flavors -- technically, there exists no such thing
as "banana taste" nor "strawberry taste" nor "chocolate taste."  Our
tounges only discern four tastes: sweet, salty, bitter and sour.  Our nose,
on the other hand, can discern thousands of smells and it is the combination
of smell and the four tastes that we attribute to a flavor.  You should
breathe as you taste, so if you smell the banana ester, you should be tasting
the "banana flavor."  The two are inseparable.

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 09:10 CST
From: Robert Schultz <SCHULTZ at admin1.usask.ca>
Subject: Apple Cider

	Does anyone out there have a recipe for "APPLE CIDER"? I've looked
through all of my info and have found recipes for 'hard cider' and 'apple
wine', but no apple cider.

	Thanks.

Robert Schultz

p.s. would appreciate email

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Date:    Tue, 15 Sep 1992 8:32:27 -0700 (MST)
From: JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU
Subject: cookers

I was wondering if anyone out there knows anything about the efficiency of
these so called "cajun cookers" . It seems to me that 115k or > BTU is a lot
more heat than can be absorbed by the pot.  Is a lot of heat being wasted to
the air?  And what about the fule effieciency of these burners? It seems to me
that a 15 or 30K BTU burner would be more fuel and thermal efficient that a
blow troch burner or am I full of Hot air :-)

___________________________________________________________________________
James D. Liddil                 Voice (602) 626-3958
Arizona Cancer Center
Tucson, AZ
===========================================================================
"There is no heaven that is why we drink beer  here" 
===========================================================================


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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 10:57:25 EDT
From: mm at workgroup.com (Mike Mahler)
Subject: water quality


	A call to my water department yielded some very interesting results:

	Ph in our area is about 6.2-6.3 but has been down to 4.0!  Sheesh, 
	acid baths in the morning.  No wonder our pipes are leeching copper 
	into the fixtures.

	We have soft water at 24 ppm of calcium carbonate (what's recommended 
	for amounts of BWS to be added for Pale Ale brewing with this soft
	water?)

	We have a sodium level of about 8ppm.

	I also found out that the EPA has enforced our city to build
	a 3 million dollar water treatment facility which the dep't
	of health thinks is bullshit considering that water in our area
	is very good quality.  At least they can give us a less agressive
	ph when	it's finished...


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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 10:42 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: Wyeast Munich #2308 (was lagering temps)

Suurb asks what is the right temperature to ferment and lager a batch
made with Wyeast #2308 Munich Lager yeast.

Well, I can tell you what temperature to *NOT* ferment and lager at,
lest you want the Chicago Tribune to report you brew home perm solution.

I used this yeast to make a borderline bock/dopplebock (1075 OG) and
here were my temperatures (I did not use a starter -- date code Dec 91,
incubated package 48 hours before brewing on April 18th -- package swolen
to about 1.5 inches):


Pitched at 68F
32 hours at 62F (till tiny bubbles were just beginning to rise in fermenter)
24 hours at 50F
2 weeks at 45F (wonderful yeasty smell in fridge -- no sulfur or perm smells)
racked to secondary
4 weeks at 45F
bottled (perm smell very prominant)
2 months at 45F

Good, clean beer with faint off smell -- only identifyable as perm
solution if the brewer foolishly volunteers the information and draws
attention to it!  Perhaps a few more months at 40F (which is where
it is now) will drop the aroma below perception threshold level.

This was my very first lager, so let me ask the lager experts a question:

When I noticed the off smell at bottling time, should I have left it
to lager for several more weeks?

Al.

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Date: 15 Sep 1992 12:07:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Liberty Clone (correction)

Sorry, folks.  You probably already figured this out, but just so
there's no confusion:  The Irish Moss for the Liberty Ale clone
I posted yesterday should be  1/2 TEASPOON, not 1/2 ounce.  Sorry.
- --frank

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 11:14 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Pre-cracked grain

I've checked all the back articles that I've saved and I guess I threw
out the one I'm thinking of.  It gave some figures about a microbrewery
that changes their recipe based on how long it's been since they crushed
their grain.  Although I wish I had the actual figures (perhaps someone
still has this article saved) suffice it to say, that they increased
their grain some percentage (it was 10 or 20%) if, for some reason, they
could not brew the day they crushed the malt.  This was done to get the
OG they were shooting for.

I haven't done any experiments to back this up (I use my grain minutes
after crushing), but if it indeed is a 10 to 20% yield difference in
one day, it certainly is a case for owning your own grain mill.  I would
suspect that crushed grain, a few months old would be quite a bit worse.
I've purchased these black and gray, locking, plastic storge containers that
hold about 100 lbs of grain and they really make storing bulk grain easy.
I know that they are air- (and mouse-) tight because when I open one,
the whole room fills with a wonderful fresh grain aroma.  I got mine at
Builder's Square, but I've also seen them at True-Value Hardware for about
$25 each.  I think they are made by Rubbermaid.

My point is, that with the added savings of buying grain in bulk and the
increased yield with freshly-crushed grain, I think the benefits of owning
your own mill outweigh the cost.  And let's face it, when compared to hobbys/
sports like model-aviation or golf, brewing is a bargain and you get to
drink your results!

Al.

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 11:21:42 CDT
From: jeq at i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 11:02:54 CDT
From: jeq at i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Subject: Is a Grain Mill Necessary?

In HBD #969:
>From: "Jeff McCartney (919) 541-7340" <FP$JEFF at RCC.RTI.ORG>
>Subject: Is a Grain Mill Necessary?
>
>>>>  Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 09:51:16 PDT
>>>>  From: gak at wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
>>>>  doesn't strike me as very good economics.
>
>>>>  ......  My question is:  am I
>>>>  getting a good deal as it is, or am I overlooking something that would
>>>>  convince me to buy a grain mill?
>
>	I'm still an extract brewer but my grain brewing friends purchase their
>grain from brewpubs ALREADY CRACKED.  Most U.S. brewpubs buy their grain
>ALREADY CRACKED!  The reason is simple- most brewpubs are relatively small and
>if they cracked their own grain in a brewing or food area, flour would make a
>MESS of the place!  And you can bet that the 100# bags of grain the brewpubs
>get are cracked CORRECTLY for the specific type of grain.

The reason may be even simpler:  In any large scale milling operation, there
is a significant explosion hazard.  Even if the pub manages to keep the
milling isolated from the customer area (who wants to sample good beer
with a nose full of flour?), the risk is great enough that I suspect
the insurers wouldn't allow it.

My father repaired office machinery for a living - one of his clients
was a flour mill in the Chicago area.  He described some fairly elaborate
measures they took to avoid explosions.  Sealed switches.  If a piece of
equipment is being unplugged, the power to the circuit is cut first to
avoid a spark.  Membrane covers over anything with pushbutton switches.
Telephones with double-walled housings to avoid exposing the spark when
the handset is lifted.  For a small scale operation, no problem.  For
a large operation, running continuously for long periods, flour dust in
the air is as explosive as a natural gas leak.  I won't insist that
a small brewpub is milling on that scale, but who's going to risk it.

Of course, for a pub located in an urban area, they may not be willing
to sacrifice expensive floor space for an operation that can easily be
done elsewhere...

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 09:02:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul dArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: RE: hop rash/irritation

Tom Rush pointed out something that I had ignored about the irritation on
my arms when picking hops.  He says that it happened to him on a warm day
and not on a cool one.  It was the same for us.  I was sweaty the day that
I got the red irritation and itching on my arms and backs of hands.

I tend to think that the irritant is related to the vines and leaves, not
the cones.  I picked around 4 pounds (dry weight) that day and my fingers
were sticky with resin.  But the rash was worst on the inside of my
forearms.  

Later, when I was packing the dried hops in heat-sealed bags, I was
getting covered with sticky, yummy, yellow resins.  It was particularly
thick on the back of my hands (where I had the irritation when picking). 
I had no reaction to the resins, other than sniffing my hands a lot and
being more prone to naps than normal.  I'm going to make some hop pillows!

Tom's speculation about pickers wearing long sleeves makes me think that
its the little stickery things on the vines and leaves (physical rather
than a chemical irritant).  In the 1990 Zymurgy Hops and Beer special
issue, there are some pictures.  

p.29:  Hop yard workers, six with rolled up sleeves.  One woman with long
dark hair is wearing gloves. 

p.51:  Two women picking hops.  The woman is right foreground is wearing a
long sleeved sweater.  The woman in the center appears to be wearing some
sort of forearm protector and a short sleeved dress. 

p.56:  Indian hop pickers.  Only one man (far right) has his sleeves
rolled up, but the man holding the pole is wearing gloves.

p.27:  Two oast house workers.  Both have their sleeves rolled up, no gloves
visible, though the man on the right only has a small part of one hand
showing.

If the resins were irritating, I would think that the oast house workers
would be the most likely to be protecting themselves.  My dad grew up near
Yakima and remembers hop picking season.  He says that some people wore
gloves because their hands got sore, but it was looked down on because it
slowed down picking.

I'm still not sure.  But if the pillows cause any irritation, I'll have
some real "hop head hops".

Paul


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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 11:29 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: mg/l vs ppm

It's probably not worth it to take your water to a lab yourself.  The
Zymurgy special issue on Water and Beer gives adjustments for almost
every beer style so you can custom-match your water to the style you're
brewing.  Some styles, like Burton Ales or Dortmunder cannot be accurately
reproduced (not even close) without adjusting your water.  Sulfate ions,
for example, accentuate hop bitterness and give the Burton ales thier
dry finish.  Regarding conversion from mg/l to ppm, this question came up
a year or two ago and a lot of people were unsure about it, but my favorite
answer from that discussion was: multiply by 1 to convert from mg/l to ppm
and divide by 1 to convert back (actually, I had to think for a moment
to make sure the two are one-in-the-same ratio).

Al.

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 11:49:27 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: wyeast #2308 temps

>After 205 ales, I've decided to brew my first lager, and yesterday
>I bought a packet of Wyeast Munich #2308.  I have no idea what
>temperatures to ferment and lager at.  Would those of you who have
>experience with this yeast please send me some advice?  Thanks.

I've made my only (true) lager (after 34 ales) to date with Wyeast
Munich #2308, in my food fridge, in 3-1gal jugs  at  32-35F.  3 months
got the SG down to mid-20's from 1.075.  I then left it at basement
temps (60F) for a few more weeks to make sure it fermented out that
last little bit, so I wouldn't get glass grenades (plus miller says
when you ferment at extremelty low temps, you should raise the temp
towards the end - was it for diacetyl reduction?).  Anyway, you can
almost freeze the yeast and it will still ferment.

bb


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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 92 14:16:08 EDT
From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      1056 and Slow Fermentation; Xmas ale

John Cotterill asks about slow fermentations with 1056 yeast.  I have
had similar experiences - one brew started at 1.042, fermented vigorously
for three days but was only down to 1.036.  I racked to secondary, where
it took 40 days to ferment down to 1.017, at which point I bottled it.
It took a long time (about another 40 days) to carbonate well.  My
suspicion is that I may not have aerated it well enough, and never really
built up a large enough yeast population (?).

Regarding the recent interest in Christmas ales.  My third batch of beer
(brewed last December 1) was a Christmas ale, and is getting pretty good,
if you like ginger (I've found several members of our homebrew club who
LIKE ginger, as does my wife).  This one takes a long time to mellow out
so it is too late for this year....

"Christmas in July" Spiced Holiday Ale

8 lbs. light DME (I used American Eagle)
3/4 lb crystal malt
3 oz. roasted barley
3 lbs wild clover honey
1 oz. Northern Brewer hops (boil)
1/2 oz. Northern Brewer hops (finish)
6 oz fresh ginger, peeled and grated (1/2 boil, 1/2 finish)
grated peel of 4 tangeloes (1/2 boil, 1/2 finish)
1 stick cinnamon
1.5 tsp. nutmeg
1.5 tsp Irish Moss
Whitbread Ale Yeast

The crystal and roasted barley were steeped in six gallons of water
while it was heating.  They were removed at 190 degrees and the DME,
honey, boil hops, half of the ginger, half of the tangelo peel, the
cinnamon stick and the nutmeg were added.  The Irish Moss went in 40
minutes into the boil, and the rest of the ginger, tangelo peel and
hops went in at 50 minutes.  At 60 minutes, cooled quickly (counter-
flow chiller) and let sit for 3 hours.  Racked off the copious trub,
aerated and pitched with a pint of starter from two packages of
Whitbread Dry Ale yeast (my all time favorite dry yeast).  OG 1.085

It fermented slowly but steadily with daily rousings for 30 days,
at which point it stalled at 1.040.   I added 1/2 tsp of amylase
enzyme, which started it back up.  On January 24, I bottled it with
3/4 cup corn sugar priming.  The F.G. was 1.032.  After about three
months in the bottle it was interesting, but not what I was looking
for -- Steve Russel's comment was "Well, it's a very interesting
ginger beverage, but I'm not sure I'd call it beer!".  Now, it has
matured quite nicely, and has a couple of real fans.  It is still
VERY gingery, so unless you really like ginger I'd cut the ginger
back by 1/2 or 2/3.

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 15:17:48 EDT
From: Arthur Delano <ajd at itl.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Carboys and Casks for sale


There is a store in Pittsburgh which sells carboys and casks of various 
sizes:
   Pennsylvania Macaroni Co.
   2010-12 Penn Avenue
   Pittsburgh, PA  15222
   phone (412) 471-8330
(for natives, this place is on The Strip)

For glass containers, they have 4,8 and 14 gallon carboys (`demijohns'). 
The 8g is $60, the 14g is $80, both include plastic carry baskets and 
metal spigots near their bases.

The oak casks are available both wax-lined and charcoal-lined in sizes 
5,10,15 and 20 gallons.  The prices for the wax-lined barrels are: 
(5g,$50) (10g,$60) (15g,$74) (20g,$82).  One must `inquire' about 
charcoal barrels, but there was a 10g on display for $87.35.  There were
also full-size bourbon aging casks available, empty (and stencilled with 
distillery information) but still smelling sweet; no prices given.  I 
don't know what size they are; 30g? 40g?

THEY MIGHT NOT MAIL-ORDER!  I didn't have time nor presence of mind to 
ask.  Perhaps somebody might be able to fill in this data-point -- in 
the mean time, ask nicely if you're phoning long-distance.

This place is primarily an Italian grocery with bargains on cheese, 
bread, pasta, oils, etc., and these containers seem to be a sideline.  
However, they also carry cider and grape presses in various sizes (I 
didn't check prices on them).  I have no affiliation with this store, 
etc. etc.

AjD

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 15:20:42 EDT
From: leno at grumpy.cray.com (Scott J. Leno)
Subject: New Club in Albany, NY

Jamieson
Leno
email
grumpy.cray.com
leno

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 15:30:06 EDT
From: leno at grumpy.cray.com (Scott J. Leno)
Subject: New Club in Albany, NY


Sory about the last posting, I must have screwed something up.


  This is to announce a new club in the Albany, NY area
 The first meeting will be in the first or second week of
 October. The exact date has not been set yet. If you are
 interested in joining please send me email and pass the
 word to friends in the area. We currently have a small
 place so we will need to know how many people plan to
 attend. I will get back to all who respond to this with
 more information. Right now the club has no name, or
 officers so this is your chance to shape the club.
    peace, love and good karma,
      Scott

- -----------------------------------------------------
Scott Leno                       leno at grumpy.cray.com
Programmer Analyst                        Home Brewer
Cray Research, Inc.                  Jamieson Brewery
- -----------------------------------------------------

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 21:42:26 BST
From: Kurt Swanson <Kurt.Swanson at dna.lth.se>
Subject: Gammel Brygd (Vienna/Marzen/Oktoberfest)

Erik (CW06GST at SJUMUSIC.bitnet) wrote:
>    Also, on a totally different subject, my favorite beer in the
>whole world is a Swedish beer from the Falcon brewery called Gammel
>Brygd.  Unfortunately I don't think it is available in the U.S.  If
>anyone knows anything about this beer, how it is made, recipes, etc.
>please post.

Being in a virtual beer hell (Sweden), where I have yet to taste a
low-acohol (l{tt|l) beer not exhibting strong amounts of DMS, I
coulnd't resist this quest.  So off I went to the state-run liquor
store, Systembolaget, the only place one can buy anything stronger
than 3.5% by volume.  I was able to procure a bottle of '90 Gammel
Brygd - yes it is vintage dated.

Gammel Bryggd is "bryggd" only once a year by Falcon, one of six
Swedish breweries, and comes in a special green bottle that has been
spray painted matte-black, a la Simpatico.  Each bottle comes with its
own metal bottle opener, with the "vintage" stamped on it.

The label says: "Bryggs endast en g}ng per }r.  Sedan den h{r
tappningen bryggdes in i november 1990 har |let lagrats f|r att n} sin
fulla mognad.  V|rtstyrka 14.0% Klass 3 4.5% vikt 5.6% volym", which I
take to mean "Brewed once a year.  Since this here 'vintage' was
brewed in novermber 1990, the beer has been lagered in order to reach
its full character. Wort strength 14% Class 3 (at most) 4.5% alc/wt,
5.6% vol."  What 14% wort strength means is anybody's guess - maybe
Plato? (I have never used Plato - what{s the SG on 14 degrees?)...

While the liquor catalog only lists the beer as being "middle-bodied
tasty beer with good hop character and roasted tone," I can tell you
it is a slight variation on the VIENNA/M[RZEN/OKTOBERFEST style. (Did
you get that MR. GEORGE FIX???)...  It has a dark, deep copper color,
and a strong, slightly greyish head.  The heavy malt aroma is
immediately noticeable, even with my "recognized" nose.  Hop aroma is
rather light, and flowery.  Malt flavor is readily apparent, as is a
moderate amount of residual malt sugars, which are not balanced by hop
bitterness.  There is some truth to the roasted tone, but I attribute
this to a heavy "toasting", or possible some black malt, rather than
any roasted malt.

Overall I'd score the beer in the 40-42 range...

The beer costs Skr15:70, or just over $3, at today's exchange rates -
this is for one bottle, no volume pricing (that would encourage
drinking, which is inherently bad)...  Mind you that most all
available high alcohol beers here cost Skr10-15.

Erik, and others, who may want to make this brew, should buy the Fix
couple's pulitzer prize winning Vienna/M{rzen/Oktoberfest, and lighten
the hops, but darken the malt...
- -- 
Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Computer Science,
Lunds universitet.  Kurt.Swanson at dna.lth.se
- --
begin 777 kurt
M96-H;R B;V-A;2!A(&]A:FUX('EE(&UR9W at N+BXB('P at ='( at )W%A>G=S>&5D
<8W)F=G1G8GEH;G5J;6EK;VQP)R G6V$M>ETG"BXB
 
end

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Date: 15 Sep 1992 15:47:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: Rob <RTC at vaxb.acs.unt.edu>
Subject: HOMEBREW LIST


DEAR HOMEBREW FOLKS: HOW CAN I GET ON YOUR LIST OF PEOPLE WHO RECEIVE YOUR
DIGEST?   TAHNKS, ROB CONLIN

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Date: 15 Sep 92 13:58:00 -0700
From: BELLAGIO_DAVID at Tandem.COM
Subject: To boil or not to boil honey for mead?

Hello,
       I am ready to make my first batch of mead and have read numerous recipes
from both the Cat's Meow and the NCJOH.  Papazian says to boil the honey to
coagulate the proteins in order for the mead to clear better.  I have heard
and read recipes from other people that say to only pasteurize it at 170-180
degrees to help retain the effervescence of honey that boils off.  I was
wondering if anybody has made a side-by-side comparison of two batches, one
with the honey boiled and one without the honey boiled?  If not, I guess I
will take the action item.  Also, I guess I was going to use champagne yeast
from the start.  What temperature is ideal for a typical champagne yeast?
Any other comments or suggestions before I get started will be appreciated.

Super Dave

Bellagio_David at Tandem.Com

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 14:23:27 PST
From: Jack St.Clair at fmccm6 <Jack_St.Clair_at_fmccm6 at ccm.hf.intel.com>
Subject: Water Analysis

     In HBD#969 Charlie Hamilton asked about water analysis at labs.  
     Just wanted everyone to know that Sears (no I'm not affiliated with 
     them) will do a water analysis for you at no charge.  They give you 
     a bottle with a self mailer.  Fill the bottle with a sample of your 
     tap water and send it off.  In 10-14 days, lo and behold, a water 
     analysis shows up at your door.  Sears does this so that you may be 
     inclined to purchase one of their wonderful water purifying 
     systems.  If you live in the boonies, I understand that this 
     service is also available through their catalog.  I did this before 
     I started brewing so I really don't know how good the analysis is 
     but it may be worth a try.  It's free!
     
     Jack_St.Clair_AT_FMCCM5 at CCM.HF.INTEL.COM

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 14:26:54 PDT
From: Richard.Goldstein at EBay.Sun.COM (Richard Goldstein)
Subject: Wyeast #1007 (was Racking during primary fermentation)


Here is a recap of my experience with this yeast, and then some questions.

Mal Card said:

>    In Miller's new book, for certain top fermenting yeasts Wyeasts, 
>    such as 1007 he recommends racking off the krausen, just as the head 
>    starts to recede. He claims that if the yeast is allowed to fall back 
>    into solution, the beer will take months to clear?  

Now you guys tell me?! I'd been wanting to use this particular Wyeast
(#1007, German Ale) for a long time, and I finally did over the Labor
Day weekend. This stuff produces a wild fermentation. The  recipe was a
basic Kolsch of 7.5 lbs of Klages, 1.0 lb of Vienna malt, and Saaz hops
for bittering and flavoring. The OG was about 1.048.

I pitched a 750 ml starter (after 24 hours) into 5 gals of wort in a 7
gal carboy. 20 hours later I had about 2-3" of kraeusen. My wife and I
went to a movie, and when we came back 2 hours later it looked like the
Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man was trying to squeeze his way through my
airlock. I quickly switched to a blow-off, and things subsided enough
to put the airlock back on after another 24 hours.

This kraeusen was thick, firm, shiny and creamy looking. It has now
been 10 days in the primary, and the kraeusen is now just a 1/8" film,
but still looks almost stiff, and has big bubbles imbedded in it. For
the last 2 or 3 days, I have gently shaken the carboy a few times a
day, and have observed the chalky looking yeast quickly descending to
the growing yeast layer on the bottom of the carboy. 

During the active fermentation the whole thing was one huge churning
blizzard of wort, trub, and yeast: pretty typical of most of my
fermentations. Today it is still bubbling about once every 10 seconds,
and the beer itself still looks like an incredible murky turbid mess,
like iced tea with a pound of flour stirred up and in suspension.

So should I have really racked under the kraeusen before now? If
racking is to get the beer off of the trub and dead yeast, then until
yesterday it didn't seem worth it given the amount of stuff still in
suspension. I have always been a little uncertain as to when to rack
into the secondary. I can definitely believe that it may take months for
this beer to clear.

As an aside, I've wondered for a while whether the size and stability
of the kraeusen is directly related to head POTENTIAL. I know that the
amount of sugar/gyle/etc will affect carbonation, but are the
kraeusen's properties an indication of the future head properties of
the beer?

As usual, thanks for your thoughts/comments/theories/experiences.

Rich Goldstein
richardg at cheesewiz.sun.com

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 16:36:07 PDT
From: bryan at tekgen.bv.tek.com
Subject: Cracked Grains Folklore

I heard from my local homebrew store that grains should not be cracked more
than 3 days or so before use. They were somewhat vague, but managed to give
the impression that doing so would allow the grain to pick up "off" tastes
and might affect enzyme content. They recommended storing the grains in the
refrigerator after they had been cracked.

Anyone have any hard data?

Bryan Olson
bryan at tekgen.bv.tek.com


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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 20:14 EDT
From: Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Alternative Beverages REAL number

Sorry folks.  I mis-typed Alternative Beverages number yesterday.  It should
be: 1-800-365-BREW
          365-2739

 ___ ----------------------------------------------------------- ___
|   |                   Kinney Baughman                         |   |
|   |            baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu                 |   |
 \ /                                                             \ /
  |        "Beer is my business and I'm late for work"            |
   ---------------------------------------------------------------



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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 15:24
From: BBAKER1 at Novell.tis.tandy.com (Bryan Baker TTC-7262)
Subject: submission

>Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 10:06:59 EDT
>From: hamilton at roadrunner.pictel.com (Charlie Hamilton)
>Subject: water chemistry question
>..........Stuff Deleted...^......................................
>Is there an easy way of converting from mg/l to ppm, or do I have
>to figure out the molecular weight of each ion and compare it to
>the number of H20 molecules in a liter.
 ......................More stuff deleted.........................
>Thanks,
>Charlie (hamilton at pictel.com)

Yes it's a 1 to 1 ratio because they're the same (at least according to the
person I talked to at the Ft. Worth water department.) He said they used to
use the term ppm, but it has fallen out of favor and they now use the term
mg/litre, but they are equivilant.

Bryan Baker
- -----------


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Date: 16 Sep 1992 01:00:17 -0600 (MDT)
From: SLK6P at CC.USU.EDU
Subject: ppm to mg/L  You're there babe!

In HBD 965  Charlie (hamilton at pictel.com) writes:

>Is there an easy way of converting from mg/l to ppm, or do I have
>to figure out the molecular weight of each ion and compare it to

ppm = mg/L   That is the definition of ppm.  Parts per million.

                    J. Wyllie (The Coyote)

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #970, 09/16/92