FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Gaseous Behavior (Sean C. Lamb 335-6669 Loral)
  Toronto Visit. (Greg_Habel)
  1992 Dixie Cup (Sean C. Lamb 335-6669 Loral)
  Re: Sneezing in my beer (Peter Karp)
  chocolate malt vs chocolate (marc julian)
  warning, creative batch (Russ Gelinas)
  Belgian Malts in Chicago. (Dennis J. Templeton)
  Re: Flatulence (wegeng.henr801c)
  more ramblings on Alts and Kolschs (Tony Babinec)
  RE- Flatulence ("Rad Equipment")
  Draught system design (BOB JONES)
  steam yeast (Russ Gelinas)
  flatulence (KENYON)
  Shipping malt (hjl)
  Mead BOS, sneezing & yeast washing from Micah Millspaw (BOB JONES)
  ad wanted (C05705DA)
  Beer Judging (Thomas D. Feller)
  Red Hook E.S.B hops (Rob Winters)
  Apple Cider (Andy Kurtz)
  Digest # 980 and mead headaches (matth)
  root beer? (CHAZ)
  Alt beer from Micah Millspaw (BOB JONES)
  Homebrew related ailments (Bill Shirley [CSC])
  Sparging temperature (Jacob Galley)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 07:12:30 CDT
From: Sean C. Lamb 335-6669 Loral <slamb at milp.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Gaseous Behavior

In regards to Mr. Jones' observation of the increase in gaseous activity
with respect to the consumption of homebrewed beer:
The Foam Rangers brew club here in Houston has two members who are
affectionately known as the "Gas Giants" - Jupiter and Saturn.  In addition,
the gentlemen from the Crescent City Homebrewers of New Orleans are not known
as the Kings of Tasteless Music and Flatulence for no reason.  In fact, these
factions are vowing to have it out at this year's Dixie Cup, and one of the
Gas Giants is preparing the secret weapon - a quart of Sierra Nevada yeast
"starter culture".  This particular Giant feels that it the yeast that
contributes to his talents, and SN is the best in his estimation.
All who are coming to Houston are forewarned.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
      .    _  .     _____________ 
      |\_|/__/|    /             \ 
     / / \/ \  \  / Happy! Happy! \      
    /__|O||O|__ \ \   Joy! Joy!   / 
   |/_ \_/\_/ _\ | \  ___________/      
   | | (____) | ||  |/                       
   \/\___/\__/  // _/
   (_/         ||   
    |  Real    ||\   Sean Lamb (slamb at milp.jsc.nasa.gov)
     \  Beer   //_/   Loral Space Info Systems
      \______//      Houston, Texas, USofA, Earth, Sol 
     __|| __||      
    (____(____)      
          


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Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 08:41:08 edt
From: Greg_Habel at DGC.ceo.dg.com
Subject: Toronto Visit.


I will be in Toronto on Sunday October 11th.  I would like to visit a 
brewpub and micro in the city.  Any Canadians out there who can give 
me pub names and addresses?   I will also be in the 
Kitchener/Waterloo area on Saturday Oct 10th for Oktoberfest and plan 
on visiting the Lion Brewery and possibly Brick Brewery.
Ticky tacky ticky tacky hoy hoy hoy! 
                                 Greg




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Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 07:51:13 CDT
From: Sean C. Lamb 335-6669 Loral <slamb at milp.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: 1992 Dixie Cup

Well, I've finally taken the time to actually read the header info on my 
copy of the hbd, and I've figured out how to post to this auspicious (sp?)
forum.  Here's a thing I've had for a couple of weeks, and the time is drawing
nigh, so I thought I'd post it for posterity.  Hope to see some of you
from out there in hbd-land at this shindig.  Of course, I've never met
any of you, but I'll be around all weekend.  I should be easy to spot,
'cause I'll probably have a few copies of
the Cat's Meow for sale.

The 9th annual Dixie Cup Galactic Homebrew Competition
October 16th & 17th, 1992

The Official Dixie Cup Entry Booklet must be obtained
from the Foam Ranger/Deflaco's by writing
or calling DeFlaco's at the address or fone numbers
given below.  That's because we want everyone to
use the same entry form so that we don't get confusd.

Entry Requirements:
Each entry shall consist of 3 bottle (12 oz. preferred).
All commercial labels must be removed.  Please
do not use homemade labels on entries.

Entry fee is $6.00, $7.00 after Octber 1, with a $1 
discount to dues paying members of homebrew clubs.
Any official entry label must be attached with
rubber bands to each bottle, with all info on
the label completed.

A complete recipe form should accompany each entry.

If score sheets are desired, a SASE should be
included, one per 3 entries is sufficient.
Clubs may have their score sheets returned to
a central address, a large envelope with 1 oz.
of postage per 3 entries will be sufficient.

Entry Deadline is 6 PM Monday, October 12th.

Send entries to:
		DeFalco's Home Wine & Beer Supplies
		5611 Morningside
		Houston, TX  77005

Inquiries should be addressed to the above, or call
or FAX:	(713)523-8154 (voice) (713) 523-5284 (FAX).

It is suggested that the entries be packed with
each bottle individually wrapped with newspaper
or bubble wrap, placed in box, bagged, and placed
in another box.  Label the box "Kitchen Supplies"
UPS is suggested as the carrier.

Submission of entries as early as possible is
suggested!

Categories:
American Lights
Continental Lights
	Piseners
	Munich Helles
	Dortmund Export
Octoberfest/Maerzen/Vienna Style Lagers
"Steam" Beers
Continental Darks
Bocks
	Traditional Dark Bock
	Light Helles Bock
	Strong Lagers
German Style Ales
	Alt Beers
	Kolsch Beers
Light Ales
Pale Ales
	Classic Pales Ales
	India Pale Ales
	American Pale Ales
Brown Ales and Milds
California Dark/Texas Brown Ales
Porters
	Traditional Porter
	East Coast Porter
Sweet Stout
Dry Stout
Strong Ales
	Old Ales
	Barley Wines
	Imperial Stouts
	Trappist Ales
	Strong Scotch Ales
Wheat Beers
	Light Wheat Beers (German or American)
	Amber and Dark Wheat Beers
Novlety Beers (unusual ingredients)
Fruit Beers
Specialty Beers
    Examples:
	Berliner Weiss
	Lambic
	Rauch
	Witbier
	Keller
	Stein
	Bierre de Garde
	Saison
	Sourmash
Still Meads
	Traditional
	Flavored
Sparkling Meads
	Traditional
	Flavored

AWARDS

	*** Dixie Cup Trophy ***

Given to club with most points, awarded as follows:
	1st place in each categroy - 5 points
	2nd place in each category - 3 points
	3rd place in each category - 1 points

Club Quality Awards (Courtesy of Crosby and Baker)

Awarded to the club with the top 5 scores in the
preliminary round.  Clubs will receive "certificates"
redeemable at any homebrew shop that does business
with CROSBY & BAKER.
	1st Place -$50
	2nd place -$30
	3rd place - $20
 
	-- Best of Show --

Best beer overall - "Super-deluxe engraved
			pedestal and a swell mug"
Best all grain	- Deluxe Engraved Pedestal
Best Extract - Deluxe Engraved Pedestal
Best Mead - "Super-deluxe engraved
			pedestal and a swell mug"

	- Individual Awards -

Awarded to winners of each category
	1st place "A magnificent mug 
			and a swell ribbon"
	2nd place  "A nifty ribbon"
	3rd place  "A nice ribbon"

	--- Label Contest ---
Submit a label of your design with your name,
address and phone number on the back.  No fee.
Please send labels without bottles attached.
Nifty ribbon for winners.

ACTIVITIES

The DC is more than a competition.  The
following activities are "on tap" for
the weekend:

Potluck dinner.
Friday night after the first round there will
be a potluck dinner put on by the Foamys and
anyone else we can con into bringing food.  The
Kings of Tasteless Music and Flatulance
from the Cresent City Brewers Club
usually serve up something good.

4th annual Fred Eckhardt Epicurean Extravaganza
This year's taste treat is "Beer and Bread"
The gluttony takes place Friday night after
the potluck.

8th annual Microbrewery tasting

>From the casual sharing of a few beers among
friends ahs grown this Saturday night
festival of fine fermented beverages.
If you're traveling to the DC, please
bring some beer to share.
Saturday night after the awards presentation.

5th annual milli-conference

Guest speakers for this Saturday morning
hangover chaser will be Brad Kraus of
the Santa Fe Brewery (former Foamy and
DeFlaco's slave); Mr. Pierre Celis of
Hoegaarden of Belgium and Celis Brewery
of Austin, TX; Rodney Morris, Yeast guru
and RIMS inventor; and other speakers
to be imposed upon in the future.
Cost is $10 which inlcludes a breakfast
buffet.

Beer Judge Certification Program Test

A BJCP test will be given on Saturday
morning if 3 people who feel good enough
to take the test and have $40 can be found.
The test will be administered by a BJCP
Master Judge. 

Pugatory on wheels pub crawl.

For those who don't think that watchin 4
people taste the best beers of the
Competition without sharing them is any fun,
there's a pub crawl on Saturday afternoon
after the second round judging.  Only $10!
(includes the possible return of Mr.
Creasote's Commerative Barf Bag!)

World's Fastest Homebrewer

If all of the above fun is not enough,
challenge Chuck Cox to the title at the
Malibu Grand Prix on Sunday Morning.

ACCOMODATIONS

The location of the DC is the Hilton Southwest
in Houston.  6780 Southwest Freeway at Hillcroft.
Cost of a room is $49/night.  Call 
(800) 545-0064 and mention that you're
coming for the Dixie Cup.  Tell them that you
have been quoted this special rate in advance.
Be firm.  If you're going to arrive early or
stay late, mention it to them, and they
should give you the rate for the length
of your stay.

DISCLAIMER

All of the above is my best effort at typing
the DC booklet at a keyboard.  All of the
above info is superceded by the official DC
booklet.  So there!
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
(really neat .sig compressed to save 
	bandwidth) --------------------> `
Sean Lamb (slamb at milp.jsc.nasa.gov)
 



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Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 09:24:02 EDT
From: karp at ground.cs.columbia.edu (Peter Karp)
Subject: Re: Sneezing in my beer


Al Korz writes: ...perhaps it is a mold allergy.

Possible but I know of one brewer that developed allergic reactions to hops in
pellet and flower form. If he handles them, his noses lights up like a bulb,
his eyes water and he sneezes for several minutes. 


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Date:         Thu, 01 Oct 92 09:22:12 EDT
From: marc julian <CMSMARC at uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      chocolate malt vs chocolate

greetings -

i've been planning on making a mocha stout...  I've seen discussions
about the use of coffee in beer - but what about chocolate in beer.

My homebrew supplier stated that the use of regular chocolate
makes the beer quite cloudy and that chocolate malt should be used
instead.  True - False

any opinions on this subject maybe sent directly to
to the list or sent to:

cmsmarc at ugs.bitnet

thanks...

marc julian

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Date:    Thu, 1 Oct 1992 9:58:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: warning, creative batch

First, since this was recently mentioned:  BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN
PASTEURIZING CARBONATED BOTTLES!!!!!!!!  A carbonated bottle heated to
160 deg. or so can explode, violently.  It's happened to me.  Luckily
I wasn't there for the actual explosion, but I did find the cover to
my cermaic pot blown 15 feet across the room, and shards of glass
everywhere.  I'm very glad I wasn't checking the water bath temperature
at the time.

Ok, feeling creative, I made a strong ale yesterday, with 2 interesting
aspects.  One, I made my own smoked crystal.  This was done by soaking .5 lb 
of 2-row, then putting it on a long flat pan in a gas grill.  On top of 
the "lava rocks" of the grill, I put 4 chunks of this quasi-peatmoss that 
grows around my house.  Low heat for about 1.5 hours, until the grains 
started to stick to the pan.  The grains came out sweet, and slightly 
smokey, 'though not smokey enough.   The other interesting thing
was that the yeast was Whitbread slurry from the primary of a batch of 
cider(!), complete with raisins.  Ferment started within 2 hours.

Russ

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Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 10:34:48 -0400
From: djt2 at po.CWRU.Edu (Dennis J. Templeton)
Subject: Belgian Malts in Chicago.



>From: thomasf at deschutes.ico.tek.com (Thomas D. Feller)
>Subject: Belgian Malts
>
>I have question about Belgian malts.
>
>Where is the best place to get them?                           
>
>I talked with Tim Norris(very nice to talk with) about ordering some
>his prices and selection are great but the shipping hurts. At

(DELETED)

I agree with Tom on all counts, but for me, shipping has *always* been an 
issue. The local HB suppliers around Cleveland have miserable grain 
selection, and if they special order it for you they add in shipping
charges. I've had a hard time getting grain for less than $1 a pound.

However, I found myself in Chicago, (I flew, but my wife had the car) and I
had a chance to visit Tim's smorgastbord of malt.  It was like being in a
candy store, (munch munch) and I found it an educational experience that I
wouldn't have had with a hundred orders from a mail order place. Thanks
Tim.  So I brought back enough grain to last me a year or more, about 10
varieties. 

I'll probably be in Chicago again before it's all gone.

For longer distances... the answer probably lies in volume.  Tim said that
the shipping costs don't drop until the shipments reach a half ton or more
(I think) Group orders seem appropriate here... your club, or your regular
supplier shipping a big order. Maybe Tim could arrange a shipment of that
size direct from the malters to the west coast? 

Another suggestion is to buy from your local brewpub... that hasn't worked
for me but it could.  Maybe convince them to switch to Belgian malt? (ha)

dennis

p.s. with the blatant endorsement for Tim Norris's malts, I should give the
phone number: (312)545-4004.  

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Date: 	Thu, 1 Oct 1992 07:50:05 PDT
From: wegeng.henr801c at xerox.com
Subject: Re: Flatulence

I don`t think that flatulence is caused only by infected brews, since the
problem also occurs with commercial beers.  I saw in a cookbook dedicated to
bean recipes the theory that this problem is caused by complex sugars that many
of us cannot digest because our digestive systems don`t have the proper
enzymes.

There`s a product you can buy at your local drug store called "Bean-o" (or
something like that) which contains the enzymes.  My experience is that it
seems to help (I`m bringing some to the GABF this weekend).  Another possible
solution is a Chinese herb medicine called "Po Chai Pills", which I`m told you
can sometimes purchase at Chinese markets.  I`ve never tried this, but my
source for this information (a well known AHA officer) swears by them.

/Don
wegeng.henr801c at xerox.com

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Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 10:28:19 CDT
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: more ramblings on Alts and Kolschs

Thanks for all the comments online and offline.  Here's a followup
posting, as I thought these points would be of interest.

Here are the Wyeast descriptions of the two yeasts:

1007 "German" ferments dry and crisp leaving a complex yet mild
flavor.  Produces an extremely rocky head and ferments well down to
55 degrees F.  Flocculation is high and apparent attenuation is 73-
77%.  Optimum fermentation temperature:  62 deg F.

1338 "European" is a full-bodied complex strain which finishes very
malty.  Produces a dense rocky head during fermentation.  High
flocculation, apparent attenuation 67-71%.  Optimum fermentation
temperature:  70 deg F.

So, European is less attenuative than German, and therefore should
leave more residual sweetness.  European also produces a maltier
beer.  Both yeasts drop out of the beer well.  When used at
conventional temperatures, they don't produce the fruity, estery
flavors desired in British ales.  

A Kolsch is a bit tricky so far as getting the right body and
sweetness.  It is not a "big" beer; starting gravity should be
1.042-6.  It is also somewhat less bitter, with the hop range being
20-30 IBUs.  And, of course, it is light in color.  Its flavor
should have just a slight edge of sweetness.  Commercial
comparisons are difficult to suggest.  In Chicago, the Goose Island
brewpub uses a real Kolsch yeast and makes a Kolsch true to style. 
It's been years since I've seen Kopper's Kolsch in the States.  

By the way, either of these yeasts makes a good American Wheat
beer.  Use barley malt and wheat malt in the ratio of 2:1 to 1:1 to
make a mid-1040s beer, and hop the beer lightly, say 18 IBUs. 
Cascades, say 0.25 - 0.5 ounce, make a good finishing hop.

If you can't cold-condition your Kolsch or Alt, rack the beer to secondary
and let it sit and clear at cellar temperature.

I don't think it's at all "bad" to use Saaz hops in an alt.  Their
best use is anytime in the last 15 minutes of the boil.  Another
popular German hop for alts is Spalt (sp-alt!).

Can an alt be dry-hopped?  Sure.  I understand that this is
especially true for the slightly stronger Sticke beer.  (Thanks to
Jim Busch for reminding me of this.)  Also, as I tried to say, 35
IBUs is fairly hoppy.  Zum Uerige, a German Dusseldorf alt, is
quite hoppy, and is one of only 32 beers to get 4 stars in Michael
Jackson's Pocket Guide.  I don't mean to legislate morality
regarding hoppiness, but it has been my experience that well-hopped
alts when entered in competition get knocked for being too hoppy,
and it appears here the U.S. beer judge community is wrong and
needs educating!

What about Vienna or Munich versus crystal malt in the grain bill?
Well, the color contribution of Vienna/Munich is less dramatic, so
you can get away with using more of it.  A Kolsch is a light-
colored beer, so a grain bill such as the following will work:

6-7 pounds pale lager malt
1 pound Vienna or light Munich
0.5 pounds light (10L) crystal malt

In an alt, you can use more of the color grains.  These beers can
range from amber to dark copper-colored.  The "Vienna Mild" recipe
produces a beer on the light end of the spectrum, and can be
tinkered with to produce a darker beer.

Happy brewing!

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Date: 1 Oct 92 08:20:47 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: RE- Flatulence

Subject:  RE: Flatulence                        Time:7:41 AM     Date:10/1/92
Bob Jones brought up the topic, so here's my story.

About two years ago I outfitted my dispensing fridge with a tap which would
allow me to keep a keg of one of Anchor's products on line (Anchor and Bass use
a unique tapper except for Steam in CA). As Steam is only distributed in Golden
Gate kegs here in California, I decided to go with Liberty. Soon after this I
began to suffer from the nuclear gas attacks to which Bob refers as well as
some other significant changes in my lower tract behaviour.

I was in the process of building my 1/2 bbl system at the time so I wasn't
brewing and so wasn't drinking much homebrew. That seemed to rule out yeast. I
was convinced I had some sort of intestinal infection or parasite but tests
came up negative. I went off alcohol for two weeks to see if that was the
problem without any relief. I resigned myself to living with it.

By the time 3 kegs of Liberty had passed, I had completed my brewery and was
back to supplying my own beers. Since I had enough of my own brews I let the
last keg of Liberty sit empty for a month or so. Coincident with this, my
toilet habits returned to normal and the gas subsided. Not one to accept such a
potential finding to go unconfirmed, I bought some bottled Liberty and consumed
it exclusively for 2 or 3 evenings. The gas returned.

During the National 1st Round I get to spend a lot of time at Anchor after
hours and have access to lots of Liberty, so I did the experiment again. I got
the same results. Following that, I had a conversation with a fellow Malt (who
also happens to work at Anchor) during which I mentioned that "I liked Liberty
but it didn't like me." My friend responded that he too had experienced the
same symptoms when Liberty was a steady diet.

My guess is that the hops are the factor. I have not attempted to confirm this
with other similarly hopped brews. I do consume a fair amount of SN Pale Ale
when I culture yeast from the bottle (I use the dregs from 4 bottles to make my
starters) and I have noticed some similar effects but to a minor degree. I
guess I should write a grant proposal to study this problem.

Anyhow, that's my story. If you plan to go camping with me, don't bring any
Liberty along (;-).

RW...

      Russ Wigglesworth              CI$:      72300,61
|~~|  UCSF Medical Center            Internet: Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu
|HB|\ Dept. of Radiology, Rm. C-324  Voice:    415-476-3668 / 474-8126 (H)
|__|/ San Francisco, CA 94143-0628


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Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 08:24 PDT
From: BOB JONES <BJONES at NOVAX.llnl.gov>
Subject: Draught system design


In the last HBD Aaron Birenboim asks about draught system dispensing pressures.
I feel so guilty about not passing along my most recent discovery, I hang my
empty stein in shame. I'll try and redeem myself now.

I too had problems with proper keg dispensing of beer. The brews would either
have a great head and no CO2 if I increased the gas pressure or no head and
flat beer if I decreased the gas pressure. As per some helpful HDB'ers I
increased my liquid line to about 8 feet long with only a small improvement.
Well at the AHA conference this year, Dave Miller talked on proper dispensing
pressure for beer. One of his handouts detailed the pressure drop for different
ID lines. The 1/4 inch ID lines most of us use has a pressure drop of about
1 psi per foot. 3/16 inch ID PVC line has a pressure drop of about 3 psi per
foot. BINGO, a 300% increase in pressure drop. I was so excited to try this
3/16 inch line I almost stopped at the hardware store on the way home from the
airport. I converted all my liquid lines to 4 feet of 3/16 inch ID PVC. I then
artificially carbonate all my beers to about 2.5 volumes of CO2 at 43 deg f.
This is about 12 psi. I then dispense the beer at 12 psi. The 4 feet of 3/16
line then gives about a 12 psi pressure drop. I am really happy with my draft
system now. I know of several people that keep say 12 psi on their kegs, then
release or drop the pressure to a few psi before dipensing. This will work but
really is a pain if you have several beers on tap as I have. Besides why do
something if you don't have to?

A few words of warning. It isn't easy to get the 3/16 line onto the 1/4 inch
barbs. Heat them up in hot water and push fast. Also the inline check valves
we all SHOULD have in our gas lines have about a 2 psi drop across them. My
system has one at the regulator output and I have one at each output from my
gas manifold. Therefore I have 2 x 2 psi drop or 4 psi. Because of this I set
my gas regulator to 4 psi above 12 psi or 16 psi.

Get a copy of the gas saturation tables, available in the archives or old
AHA conference proceeding. I have had one of these charts for years, I got it
from Zahm and Nagle over 10 years ago. I didn't really start using it until
recently, now I use it everytime I keg beer.

Bob Jones

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Date:    Thu, 1 Oct 1992 11:43:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: steam yeast

   Wasn't Wyeast supposed to come out with a Steam Beer yeast?  I 
haven't seen or heard of it since it was mentioned sometime back in
the summer.  Does it exist?

   And, I need to say that I truly appreciate having someone with 
the expertise of George Fix on the digest.  I find his posts knowledgeable,
clear, and non-condescending.  I thank you George, sincerely.  Perhaps
some day we may have statues of St. Fix overlooking our breweries ;-)

Russ

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Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 12:04 EDT
From: KENYON%LARRY%erevax.BITNET at pucc.Princeton.EDU
Subject: flatulence


I was always under the impression that homebrew gas was a result not only of
the homebrews, but the food we eat while drinking homebrews as well.  I mean,
has anybody ever actually NOT opened a bag of garlic, Jalepena chips??  Doesn't
everybody brew up a big batch of 11-alarm Buffalo Dawgs for their homebrew
parties??  Move over Saddam, here come the Chemical weapons!!



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Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 12:38 EDT
From: hjl at gummo.att.com
Subject: Shipping malt

Regarding Tom Feller's concerns about high shipping costs,
I don't know where Tim Norris is, but UPS will ship 70#
coast-to-coast for about $25. Parcel post is about $30.

Funny story...I was trying to send a case of my homemade
wine to my brother-in-law in Alaska. I went to UPS where
I was informed that they wouldn't ship booze. So I took
it to the post office where the conversation went some-
thing like this:

"Can I ship wine to Alaska via parcel post?" 
"Gee, I don't know..let me look"
(some shuffling of books and pages)
"Can't say for sure, but I don't think so"
"How about vinegar?"
"Sure vinegar's no problem"
"Good, today I brought the vinegar, I'll worry about the wine later"

Wine arrived in a week.
 
Hank Luer
  .//' 

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Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 09:50 PDT
From: BOB JONES <BJONES at NOVAX.llnl.gov>
Subject: Mead BOS, sneezing & yeast washing from Micah Millspaw




	First, I would like to thank everyone who was\is involved in
getting some answers to the mead BOS problem. I very much appreciate
the info I've recieved. Also I want to make it clear that this is
not a personal vendeta and that it the long run this somewhat negitive
publicity will help assure us of better competitions.
	
	On the topic of beer related sneezing. A friend of mine who
really likes beer noticed that certain brands of beer when consumed
made his eyes and nose run and caused sneezing fits. He asked me what
I thought of this, and so we did some experiments. The easiest was to
go though the ingredients that make up beer. he smelled and tasted
several types of grain,nothing, then he went to the hops and things got 
interesting.
We found that he had quite a strong and immediate reaction to certain
varieties of hops, and was not bothered as much by others. I then went to
the books to find out what varieties hops were used in the brands of
beer that most bothered him. It all matched up and now he avoids certain
brands and certain of my homebrews. Just an interesting item.


	Also I noticed a qestion about growing yeast and the correct
ph, some metion was made about not being able to verify the ph and
want some volume\weight mix info. 
	When I do an acid wash on my yeast I've found that they really
like a ph of 3.5-4.0, this is done with an acid blend that can be had 
from most home wine shops. As for mixing it up, it would not be a good
idea to rely on a volume\weight type mix since the ingredients (your water
and the acid blend) can vary widely. I strongly suggest that a ph test
kit be used to verify your solution before subjecting the yeast to it.
The stuff to check ph is really cheap and easy to use.


                                   Micah Millspaw 
                                      9/30/92

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Date:         Thu, 01 Oct 92 12:34:18 CST
From: C05705DA at WUVMD.Wustl.Edu
Subject:      ad wanted

does anybody know the phone # of Homebrew somewhere in the Branson area?
it should have an 1-800 number.  thanks.

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Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 11:08:04 PDT
From: thomasf at deschutes.ico.tek.com (Thomas D. Feller)
Subject: Beer Judging

I find this discussion about the AHA judging very interesting 
I am sure it will be of use to the members of the HBD which 
do or hope to enter brews in competitions. I am also sure that
digester who serve on the AHA judging committee are following this
discussion with great interest.

The key here appears to be that beer judges are just like us, human. 
I believe that Micah first place finish in his entered category 
should have stood. Judging is a subjective process and the judges 
decide at the time that Micah was the best of the presented meads. 
The problem is not with the Judges themselves, I believe everyone
acted in a way which they believed was correct. The problem lies 
in a flaw in the judging guidelines, the rules need to be changed 
to address this situation. Of course someday another problem will 
arise which is was not considered when the current rules were writen 
but that is part of the process.

I understand Jim Busch's remarks were intended to add insight into
this question, which they did, but I have a question about his 
"credibility test". Are you saying that there were beers entered in
a cagegory which your rated a 4+ or 5 that finished out of the running
while beers you rated a 1 or 2 finished 1st or 2nd? Did any of the
beers which you rated highly finish 1st or 2nd?

There are number of local brews which I believe are outstanding
which other knowledgeable friends believe are only fair. This
only shows the subjectivity of judging. I have just begun my work
to become a beer judge and I am sure I will learn of much more
about this credibility question. My hope of this discussion is that
we will come to understand how diffcult is is to judge beer and 
that the errors we see in our 20/20 hindsight will be considered
when new judging rules are made.


Tom Feller

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Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:19:35 -0500
From: rwinters at nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov (Rob Winters)
Subject: Red Hook E.S.B hops

rfozard at sword.eng.pyramid.com (Bob Fozard) writes:

>I picked up a recipe profile sheet from Brian at Fermentation Frenzy
>yesterday that lists all of Red Hook's and Sam Adams' brews.  The
>one I'm particularly interested in is Red Hook ESB.  This beer has
>the tastiest hop character I know of.  The sheet lists ESB as using
>Willamette and Tettnang.  Not having my senses properly and fully
>calibrated for hop-guessing yet, I cannot confirm this.  Can any
>of you?

I can't confirm it by hop-guessing (but I'll keep trying ;-), but
the fact sheet handed out by the brewery during the tour and tastings
sez that's what's in there. I've got a recent one, (ca. September 1992).
Of course, one could argue that it's not in their best interest to 
divulge all of the ingredients...

Rob

P.S. Beer makes for very heavy carry-on luggage! Anyone know where I can
get Red Hook products in the mid-atlantic region? A couple o' more Black
Hooks and the larder will be empty until next trip.


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Date: Thu,  1 Oct 1992 15:20:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andy Kurtz <ak35+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Apple Cider

A couple of weeks ago (9.19/HBD 973), Garret Hildebrand gave his recipe
for Apple Cider:

>Hard apple cider is not particularly hard to make. I have been using
>the following simple method with great success. Beer making veterans
>may be aghast at the lack of controls, but it does work just fine.
> 
>1 Gallon bottle of pure apple cider, no sugar added.
> 
>1 small can of apple cider or apple juice concentrate, frozen
> 
>1 packet of champagne or ale yeast.
> 
> - square of saran wrap
> 
> - rubber band
> 
>Open the apple cider and pour out enough to leave headroom down to
>where the bottle is no longer curved in. Drink what you pour out or
>save it for something else.
> 
>Add in 1/2 of the frozen concentrate. If you have lost the headroom,
>you did not pour enough out, so pour out some more.
> 
>Shake it up real good, then add in the yeast and shake it up some
>more.
> 
>Put the saran wrap over the bottle mouth, wet, so it slips around a bit
>and is not making an air-tight seal. Place a rubber band around the
>neck near the top. The idea is to keep things from getting into the
>bottle, but act like an air-lock thus letting blow-off out. Don't make
>a big deal out of this step.
> 
>Put the bottle in the sink or on a place on the countertop and let it
>sit out for two to three days, then put it in the refridgerator.
> 
>*** At no time should you cap the bottle or it will explode ***
> 
>Beginning with the third day you can start drinking the stuff. It will
>change in character from day to day. The longer you let it sit the less
>sweet and the more alchoholic it gets. If you leave it long enough it
>will clarify.
> 
>Mine never lasts that long.
> 
>You can play around with sterilization and pasturization and air-locks
>and what-not, but it never made mine taste any better. Stay loose.
 
Although I'm sure that Garrett's method will produce good cider (this is
how my father's been making it for years and years), I'm curious if we
might not be able to apply some homebrewing techniques to cider-making. 
 Can, for instance, cider be bottled? I know that there are examples of
bottled cider in England (taste-profiles, anyone?).  How would one
control carbonation and/or secondary fermentations? Hopped cider?  

just some thoughts...

andy


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Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 09:11:20 -0400
From: matth at bedford.progress.com
Subject: Digest # 980 and mead headaches


  In Digest #980 Brian Bliss asks:

What is it about mead that makes for such mean hangovers?

  I believe it has to do with the high sugar content.  I know I found out the
hard way in college (when I was soooo much more of a refined drinker than I
am now!-) that liquors that are very sweet (such as schnapps) can produce some
of the worst anvil pounding headaches ever.  I would believe that mead has the
similar characteristic.

  As far as headaches go, I find I get them more from commercial brews than
homebrew, but there is a link between the two.  I'm a pretty severe allergy 
sufferer and as such have fairly constant sinus problems.  When I get them I 
usually get wicked sinus headaches from drinking the brew.  It's not the 
temperature of it 'cause I can have a big glass (or more) of any ice cold
non-beer beverage and not get the headaches.

  The good news is I've finally figured out when I will get one of these and
stay away from the beer at such times.  (It usually coincides with a weather
pressure change or some such activity.)

  I guess beer isn't the cure all I thought it was in college...

 -Matth


          Matthew J. Harper ! Progress Software Corp. ! {disclaimer.i}         
   God created heaven and earth to grow barley and hops. Now he homebrews !-)  


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Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 16:36:15 -0400
From: andrecp at esvax.dnet.dupont.com (CHAZ)
Subject: root beer?

I just started homebrewing, and I love it, but my problem is:
most of my family doesn't drink!   I would like to try and 
make some root beer, but I haven't seen any recipees.  If
anyone out there has tried this, could you post or send email?
Thanks!

chaz

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Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:16 PDT
From: BOB JONES <BJONES at NOVAX.llnl.gov>
Subject: Alt beer from Micah Millspaw




	On the topic of Alt beer. I happen to live near St. Stans the 
Alt beer brewery. Their amber alt is usualy quite tasty and is more
or less in the Dusseldorf style. As for their other versions of alt
same are quite good but not really what I would call an Alt. Their
yeast however is excellent, myself and other members of SAAZ have
brewed much truer to Dusseldorf style using more approprate ingredients 
with Stans yeast. It does need to be cold fermented however for
the best results. Alt is the mirror image of Steam, fermentation wise.
Since St.Stans only filters to 3 microns it should be possible to
culture from a bottle. I haven't tried it because I can get my yeast
directly from St. Stans. Nor do I know how available this beer is 
nationaly. Have fun.

                 Micah Millspaw

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Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 16:57:41 CDT
From: shirley at gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Bill Shirley [CSC])
Subject: Homebrew related ailments

There has been much debate recently about the causality of ailment
with relation to consumption of beer, or more specifically homebrew.
Many people are proclaiming, with support form statistics, that
element X in homebrew doesn't cause symptom Y.  This may generally
be the case (and thus the statistical support)  What I suspect, is
that any symptom that seems to be tied to the consumption for a
single person, may actually be.  This is most likely a mild allergic
reaction or a higher sensitivity of one persons body to a specific
element of that which is consumed.  This is quite common with other
things (Chocolate is not _bad_ for you, but many peoples bodies 
have an intolerance for it).  Also, with the continued consumption
of an aggravating ingredient over an extended period (maybe even
years), your body could become more sensitive to it.

With that said, I think I'll have another beer.  
It's good for ya, ya know.

 -Bill Shirley

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Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 21:20:14 CDT
From: Jacob Galley <gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Sparging temperature

Hi gang. I have a simple question that can probably be answered via
email, though it might border on traditional family brewing values
rather than science and hence cause some discussion. Those who can
answer probably know:

What bad happens if my sparging water is not ~175^F?

If I read Dr. Fix correctly, than cooler sparge water will simply not
break down the starch -> sugar enzyme system. Why is this a big deal?
What are these enzymes going to do after they chew up the starches?

This is my crude partial mash procedure, as it has evolved after three
batches: I mash in a gallon pot on the stove. Two cups at a time, I
scoop the grain out of this pot and into a typical kitchen strainer. I
dunk the grain in the water in my boiling pot, which at this point is
just tap-hot, in order to rinse it somewhat. I pour a little more hot
tap water over the grain to be thorough. I repeat the process until
all the grain is "sparged."

I'd also appreciate any suggestions for improving my procedure (but I
won't implement them for a while if they involve money or building
things!).

Cheers,
Jake.

Reinheitsgebot <-- "Keep your laws off my beer!" <-- gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #982, 10/02/92