FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Spiced Apple Wine (Jim Grady)
  Indianapolis (Scott Weintraub)
  Dried cherries in beer (Paul Sealover)
  auence? (Sean J. Caron)
  Re: Orange Peels  (Dave Coombs)
  First Lager (Jack Schmidling)
  Belgian malts from Micah Millspaw ("BOBBY JONES")
  Vinegary cider (Garrett Hildebrand)
  haze (Mark Garti  mrgarti at xyplex.com)
  Wyeast question (Pierre Jelenc)
  liquid yeast starters (Mark Garti  mrgarti at xyplex.com)
  Stuff left in clorox solution... (SSIEGLER)
  Re: Wyeast question (Pierre Jelenc)
  Alt Beers (Norm Hardy)


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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 8:01:03 EDT
From: Jim Grady <jimg at hpwalq.wal.hp.com>
Subject: Spiced Apple Wine

Some of the discussions about cider on the digest lately gave me an idea.
What about a spiced apple wine?  I was thinking of using spices that one
frequently uses for mulled cider & maybe taking a look at some of the
Christmas brew recipes, e.g. cinnamon, cloves, nutmeg.  I have not decided
whether I should make it still or sparkling. I was thinking of making the
must from:
        Fresh Apple Cider
        white wine grape conentrate (how much?)
        honey/sugar to bring S.G. up to 1.100
        white wine yeast
        spices

Anybody have any thoughts as to when I should add the spices?  I was thinking
of adding them when I pitch the yeast and removing them when I rack to the
secondary.  Has anybody else tried this?  What spices did you use?

Thanks in advance.
- --
Jim Grady                  |"Talent imitates, genius steals."
Internet: jimg at wal.hp.com  |
Phone: (617) 290-3409      |                    T. S. Eliot

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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 8:58:13 EST
From: sfw at trionix.com (Scott Weintraub)
Subject: Indianapolis

So,

	Im off to Indianapolis for a weekend in November...and might have some
time to sample the local brews..if there Are any!

	Where does one go, in and around Indianapolis, for good beer?

- --Scott Weintraub
  TRIONIX
  
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  | Scott Weintraub		|  TRIONIX Research Laboratory, Inc.		  |
  | Software Engineer		|  8037 Bavaria Road				  |
  |				|  Twinsburg, OH 44087				  |
  | e-mail: sfw at trionix.com	|  Voice: 1-216-425-9055  Fax: 1-216-425-9059	  |
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 10:09:28 EDT
From: psealover at hns.com (Paul Sealover)
Subject: Dried cherries in beer

                                                
                   
I've got a question about using dried cherries in beer.

My wife brought me two pounds of dried cherries from her
recent trip to Michigan. I just pitched a German Ale
and am going to add the cherries to the primary after
the krausen falls.

The question is ... do I still need to add campden tablets
to avoid possible infection. Seems like dried fruit would
be safer than fresh but thought it wise to consult the
powers that be since I have a few days.

Also, I've never used the campden tablets before ....
do they affect the flavor of the brew ????

Thanx,
Paul.


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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 11:57:39 EDT
From: Sean J. Caron <CARONS at TBOSCH.dnet.ge.com>
Subject:  auence?

Phil Hultin asks

>auence, rose maryn, tyme,
>chopped right smal, and put this and a newe leyd hennes ey in a bage ...
>
>(auence ? don't know this one)

how about anise ? You know, that liquorise-tasting/smelling spice?

Jees! what a tough post for us non-spelling computer geeks!

                                                     sean

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Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 13:16:53 -0400
From: Dave Coombs <coombs at cme.nist.gov>
Subject: Re: Orange Peels 

I recently brewed a spiced beer with orange and lemon peels.  I had
planned to simply grate the fruits, but the grater didn't seem to do a
very good job.  Maybe it was too dull, but the grater didn't seem to
dig in well.  I cut the peels into strips, as you would for marmalade,
but I was too tired to slice off the white part.  There are a lot
spices in it, though.  I can't tell you how it will turn out, but it
smells like I'd expect "mulled" beer to smell.  After a few days of
fermenting at 70F with London ale yeast, the gravity had dropped by
half, but it was far too sweet to be judged.

If you know how to zest citrus, I'd like to hear it.  Maybe I just
gaze up too soon.  Curiously, I couldn't find a reference to citrus
zest in Fanny Farmer, my old standby.

So, what's the motivation for removing the white fleshy part of the
rind? 

	dave, the lazy

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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 08:11 CDT
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: First Lager

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 This weekend was my first attempt at a lager.  Unfortunately, a mini-heatwave 
 began the day I started the yeast.  I have been able to keep it under 60F but 
 that is the best I can do without help from Mother Nature.
 
 The yeast I used is Pilsner Urequel that I received from a customer who 
 claims it came directly from the brewery this year.   I have since noted that 
 someone mentioned Wyeast has a PU yeast and would like to hear from anyone 
 who knows what their source is and when and how they got it.
 
 This yeast seemed to be far more vigorous during starting than the Edme I am 
 used to.  Twice it squirted out of the ferm lock in the flasks and in volumes 
 I normally use.
 
 I was agog when I opened the fermenter this morning to find a head that was 
 snow white and looked more like angle food cake than the usual foam I see.  
 It was also about twice as high as the Edme head would have been.
 
 A sample tonite from the spigot tastes great and seems clearer than usual.  I 
 would have expected a bottom fermenting yeast to be more turbid from the 
 spigot.  It also seems to have a higher level of carbonation than an ale.  At 
 this point, a little more than 24 hrs into fermentation it is a perfectly 
 drinkable beer.
 
 My daughter's wedding party is at the end of the month so it WILL be ready 
 then.  Hopefully, the next one will be a real lager.
 
 js
 

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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 10:58:38 PST
From: "BOBBY JONES" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Belgian malts from Micah Millspaw


 These new belgian malts has any one used them yet? I bought
some carraviene and some special B malt. I am going to use the carraviene
in a barleywine this weekend, it seems appropriate. The special B
is a tuffer choice, the stuff looks like 120 caramel malt but tasted
like lightly roasted barley. I'm thinking that it would be a excellant
taste for a scotch wee heavy (my favorite style) rather than the roast
barley that I now use (in tiny amounts). Does anyone out there in HBD
land know of these malts original uses, if so I'd like to know. Also 
any other styles that might be enhanced by these malt would be welcome.

                                     Micah Millspaw

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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 10:18:53 PDT
From: mdcsc!gdh at uunet.UU.NET (Garrett Hildebrand)
Subject: Vinegary cider

In the Homebrew Digest #983 (October 05, 1992), Charles Spiteri says,
>
>I've just started brewing and have 3 batches under my belt.  After
seeing the
>hard cider recipe and finding a gallon of apple cider in the fridge I
decided
>to try it out.  After 5 days fermenting I decided to taste it.  It
smells like
>vinegar and really is lacking and sort of sweetness. I racked it to a
secondary
>and was wondering if there is anything I can do to save this batch (
ex: Add
>sugar, honey ??).  Did anyone else try the recipe ?
>

If it smells like vinegar then it is lost.

As to why it went like vinegar, I can't help but wonder what the bottle
had been exposed to before you used it to make the cider. The recipie
does not state explicitly that a new bottle should be used, but assumes
it; otherwise, I'd pasturize the cider to kill of bad stuff and clean
the bottle like you would any fermenting vessel, _then_ add the yeast.

Garrett

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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 14:30:46 EDT
From: garti at mrg.xyplex.com (Mark Garti mrgarti at xyplex.com)
Subject: haze

i just tried two brews that had the same problem.
i brewed both with malted barley that i roasted
and crushed with a rolling pin.  both beers had
excessive haze.  the haze settled quite a bit after
a week and a half in the fridge (after 2.5 weeks
aging).  i put the adjuncts in the cold water and
left them in until boil (possibly slightly longer
in the beer that had the worst haze).  is the amount
of haze directly proportional to the amount of time
the adjuncts spent at temp's in excess of 170F?  Is
there something else i was supposed to do with the
adjuncts.  what are the other reasons for removing
the adjuncts before boil?  what is the real cut off
temp for them?  both were extract brews but otherwise
had nothing in common and were brewed in my usual
manners.  Thanks.
Mark    mrgarti at xyplex.com

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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 14:44:24 EDT
From: Pierre Jelenc at cunixf.cc.columbia.edu
Subject: Wyeast question

I have had a curious experience with Wyeast Champagne yeast. I received
a package that looked like it had burst in shipment, and was not ready
to use it, so I tried to plate the yeast for future use. I slit the
pouch, and discovered that the inner bag had _not_ burst, but instead
was swollen tight. I fished it out with sterile tweezers, opened it, and
plated 10 microliters of the inside and the outside liquids, expecting
to see a difference, perhaps a contamination somewhere, or yeast in the
inner but not the outer compartment.

What I got instead was _identical_ growth from both, same rate of colony
growth, same number of colonies (I used a calibrated loop for the
inoculation), and in both cases no bacterial contaminants, but about 30%
of minuscule colonies that I take to be petite mutants.

What does it all mean. Why is there yeast in both the inner and outer
bag? Is it the same strain (it's supposed to be a single strain)? Where
is the yeast _supposed_ to be?

Any help and suggestions welcome.

Pierre



Pierre Jelenc                        pcj1 at cunixf.cc.columbia.edu 
                                    Columbia University, New York

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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 16:37:51 EDT
From: garti at mrg.xyplex.com (Mark Garti mrgarti at xyplex.com)
Subject: liquid yeast starters

anyone ever put hops in their liquid yeast starters?
if so why?  anyone not do it?
Mark    mrgarti at xyplex.com

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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:12 EST
From: SSIEGLER at LANDO.HNS.COM
Subject: Stuff left in clorox solution...


	I had left some clear siphon tubing, bottling spigot, and glassware
in a plastic (fermenting) bucket filled with a clorox-water solution
(I didn't have a good place to hang the tube, and, sure, I was lazy).
The clear tube has become cloudy. 
The best advice I have heard is : "Tubing is cheap, replace it."
 -Is this the general concensus?
 -Can I safely use it?
 -Will it impart yuccy (a technical term) flavors?  If so, this would mean that
  I may have ruined the fermenter as well...
 -Anyone know what the reaction is?  
 -What's the preferred way to store tubing (and other plactic stuff)?
 -Should I dilute the clorox with ammonia? (Kids, don't try this at home) :-(

- --Thanks in advance

Stuart Siegler
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there aren't people out to get you"

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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 18:30:54 EDT
From: Pierre Jelenc at cunixf.cc.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: Wyeast question

The colonies growing from the Champagne yeast package described in my
previous post have now been examined by several knowledgeable people in
the micro department. The large colonies appear to be healthy
Saccharomyces, but the small ones are in fact bacteria!! They appear to
be some sort of bacillus, thin rods which aggregate easily, clearly not
E. coli or salmonella. 

The consensus is that it should not be too surprizing that bacilli grow
poorly on YPD plates, especially since many if not most are anaerobes
and these plates were aerobic.

There are now two problems, therefore: where does the contamination
come from, and why were there yeast both in the inner and outer
compartments.

Pierre


Pierre Jelenc                        pcj1 at cunixf.cc.columbia.edu 
                                    Columbia University, New York

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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 17:52:12 PDT
From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Alt Beers

The recent comments about the Duesseldorf beers and some USA versions 
prompted me to post this.

[1] Widmer Alt was originally a Uerige Alt clone, or as close as Kurt Widmer
    could do (he did, and maybe still does, use the same yeast).  Problem was,
    it just wasn't selling.  When asked by a Seattle beer columnist why Widmer
    changed the beer to be less bitter, Kurt replied:  "because I have to sell
    the stuff!".  Even the Portland area doesn't fully appreciate the stuff.
[2] The alt beers of Duesseldorf are varied, from light amber to very dark
    amber.  The tastes run from semi-malty and sweet (Schlosser, Diebels) to
    VERY bitter (Uerige and Schumacher and some others I can't remember now).
    My last time there, in 1990, I found the alts to have a grapefruit kind
    of bitterness that I found off-putting.  Perhaps this coming summer will
    prove to be more enlightening.
[3] Some German locals have said that some alt beers could be blind tasted
    and could be confused for pilsners (again, BLIND tasted).  Interesting
    conjecture....

Norm Hardy

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #984, 10/06/92