FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Wyeast #1214 (HULTINP)
  List of micro breweries ("Ken Schriner" )
  Boston Brewpubs (Karl F. Bloss)
  Grapefruit in Alts...  Possible explanation (Todd Enders - WD0BCI)
  BAA and beer judging ("Ken Schriner" )
  Re: Cloudy Tubing (SSIEGLER)
  Please add me to the list. (Kevin Fox)
  Samule??  Quayl?? (ZLPAJGN)
  GABF '92 (Phil Duclos)
  Who are the Great Amer Beer Fest winners? (Dan Strahs)
  Re: Orange Zest (David Van Iderstine)
  microbreweries & brewpubs in Seattle? (ACS_JAMES)
  Yeast starters from Micah Millspaw ("BOBBY JONES")
  McAndrew's Addendum (korz)
  Powdered sugar vs. corn sugar (KRUSE_NEIL)
  Plastic Bottles (Don Levey)
  Sorry Jack... (whg)
  Belgian Malt (Jack Schmidling)
  Yet another use for Wyeast Belgian... Mead (eurquhar)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Oct 1992 08:56 EDT
From: HULTINP at QUCDN.QueensU.CA
Subject: Wyeast #1214

In HBD #985, Rob Bradley mentions a Wyeast "California" as possibly
being #1214.  I hope not!  I just bought #1214 from my local supplier
billed as their "Belgian Ale".  Is there confirmation out there?  I
saw the posting a while back about the Wyeast line, but I'm nervous
now... :-)
                                 Phil Hultin

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Date:         7 Oct 92 08:13:43 CST
From: "Ken Schriner" <KENS at saturn.uark.edu>
Subject:      List of micro breweries

I am interested in obtaining a current list of microbreweries in the
United States.  Of particular interest are those microbreweries
located near me (northwest Arkansas.)  Are there any publications,
lists, or professional organizations that might provide me with
this list?  Of particular importance are addresses and phone numbers.
Thanks to any who respond.


Ken Schriner                           BITNET  ks06054 at uafsysb
University of Arkansas               Internet  kens at saturn.uark.edu

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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 09:15:24 -0400
From: blosskf at ttown.apci.com (Karl F. Bloss)
Subject: Boston Brewpubs

My apologies if this has been asked before, but what are the great brewpubs
not to be missed in Boston, particularly near Harvard Square?

Thanks in advance...Karl
(blosskf at ttown.apci.com)

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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 08:51:34 -0500
From: Todd Enders - WD0BCI <enders at plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: Grapefruit in Alts...  Possible explanation


jim busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> writes:
>polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy) writes:
>>The alt beers of Duesseldorf are varied, from light amber to very dark
>>amber.  The tastes run from semi-malty and sweet (Schlosser, Diebels) to
>>VERY bitter (Uerige and Schumacher and some others I can't remember now)
>>My last time there, in 1990, I found the alts to have a grapefruit kind
>>of bitterness that I found off-putting.
>
>I have noted this same phenomonon.  It seems particularly noticable in 
>highly hopped american pale ales, typically when Cascade or Centennial 
>hops are used.  I also noted the same thing when I was drinking the 
>Alts in the Altstadt area of Duesseldorf.  I suspect some correlation
>between very high hopping levels and citrous notes.  I'm sure there is
>a good chemical explanation to this.
>
     I think the answer *might* be dry hopping.  I and a couple of brewing
comrades noticed this effect during an IPA brewing stint.  Namely, the
harder you dry hop, the more of a citrus peel finish you get.  Higher alpha
hops seem somewhat worse in this regard.  We went as high as an ounce of hops
per gallon in the secondary.  The results were reminiscent of chewing on a 
piece of grapefruit peel, pith and all! :-)

     We didn't experiment with different methods of dry hopping, so I can't
say what effect differences in technique would have.  But IMHO, Jim is
correct in suspecting the correlation between the grapefruit notes and high
(dry) hopping levels.

     As to a chemical explanation, I can't say, other than to speculate that
there are similar flavour components in the hops and citrus which get leached
out in extended dry hopping.  Most likely volatile oils of some sort, since
when we quit dry hopping, the grapefruit finish went away, even though we
used more hops in the kettle.

Todd

===============================================================================

Todd Enders - WD0BCI                  ARPA: enders at plains.nodak.edu
Computer Center                       UUCP: ...!uunet!plains!enders
Minot State University                  or: ...!hplabs!hp-lsd!plains!enders
Minot, ND  58701                     Bitnet: enders at plains

     "The present would be full of all possible futures,
      if the past had not already projected a pattern upon it" - Andre' Gide

===============================================================================


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Date:         7 Oct 92 09:10:32 CST
From: "Ken Schriner" <KENS at saturn.uark.edu>
Subject:      BAA and beer judging

As a slightly isolated homebrewer in northwest Arkansas (fayettevile
is where I work), I was ecstatic to learn of Beer Across America (i
am in no way affiliated, just a happy customer.)

One of their first shipments (several months ago) was from Boulevard
Brewery in KC.  As a former Kansas boy, I am particularly fond of
their beer.  Anyway...as I was drinking some of their fine beer, it
occurred to me that several of the members of this list were probaby
enjoying this fine beer for the first time.  And mentally noting how
good it was, how it compared to others of the same style, how it
compared to their home brew.  In short...judging it.

I have always wanted to learn more about judging beer.
But...isolated in the Ozarks as I am (and loving it) it was difficult
to compare my notes with others' on the subject of judging beer.

But...if many folks were drinking the same beer, folks interested in
beer, folks interested in judging, folks connected to each other by
an electronic network...well it seemed a natural.  A National
Electronic Beer Judging Club.  Those that are getting the beers from
BAA could judge those two beers each month.  Those that don't belong
to BAA, could participate by obtaining the same beer from their
local outlets.  Once a month we would all be judging the same
two beers.  And comparing our notes, etc.

Is there any interest in this from any other HBD'ers?  I think a
natural point to start from would be getting one of the certified
judges to post some info about how a beer is judged (I don't know
how.)  and maybe someone else could also post how to join BAA (I
don't know how, mine was a gift from a great wife.)

Any interest?


Ken Schriner                           BITNET  ks06054 at uafsysb
University of Arkansas               Internet  kens at saturn.uark.edu

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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 10:19 EST
From: SSIEGLER at LANDO.HNS.COM
Subject: Re: Cloudy Tubing

In HBD 984 I posted:

|	I had left some clear siphon tubing, bottling spigot, and glassware
|in a plastic (fermenting) bucket filled with a clorox-water solution ...
|The clear tube has become cloudy. 

from cole%nevis.hepnet at Lbl.Gov (Brian Cole)

>... I think it has nothing to do with the bleach and      
> everything to do with the tubing. The clear flexible is permeable  
> to water and if left in water simply absorbs this water into       
> the plastic (osmosis). I find that letting the tube sit out of the 
> water for a while (a day or so) will solve the problem ...

from  "Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu"  (Spencer W. Thomas) and
      "rclopton at hoss.unl.edu"  "richard clopton" 

> Hang it up and let it dry.  It will clear.  It's just the water
> getting adsorbed into the plastic.                             

Unfortunately, I added (yes, toungue in cheek):
|-Should I dilute the clorox with ammonia? (Kids, don't try this at home) :-(

Though I placed a Government Warning (and a Mr. Yuck Sticker) at the end

hjl at gummo.att.com (Hank)                                 
Correcty points out that this is not the recommended way to clean tubing:
>... This produces phosgene... This can be life threatening.

What I *meant* to say was "Would filling my house with natural gas speed the
drying process of the tubing? :^)

 -Stuart Siegler
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there aren't people out to get you"

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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 10:30:47 EDT
From: fox at bart (Kevin Fox)
Subject: Please add me to the list.

Could you please add fox at temerity.polaroid.com to the
home brew mailing list.
Thanks.


- -- 
			Kevin

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Date:    Wed, 07 Oct 92 10:10 CDT
From: ZLPAJGN%LUCCPUA.bitnet at UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject: Samule??  Quayl??

Dear Brewers,

I just caught an error in my last posting to the HBD (various topics).
I was referring to *Samuel* Adams (not 'Samule').  Geez!  Perhaps I
could have been a contender for the V.P.'s slot!!    (NOT!!)

OK, onto more serious matters: brewing!  I think I'm going to try the
Quick-n-Easy Spiced Brown Ale recipe for Christmas that was posted in
the last HBD.  I'm not sure whether I'll try to incorporate the Glo:gg
'mixer' I spoke about; perhaps this Ale recipe might provide a good
base for it?  But along those lines, I'm curious about a few things:
  1) What type of yeast to use... I'm assuming it'll be an ale yeast,
     but is there a specific brand/type that I should use?  Further,
     after using my first liquid yeast, I DON'T want to go back to
     a dry yeast, and I'm assuming this recipe calls for a liquid
     yeast?

  2) I'm inclined to think that this recipe might benefit from a
     single-staged method, allowing for a maximum attenuation (?) of
     the spices.  If this is the case, then wouldn't pelletized hops
     be better than leaf?

  3) Finally, while I was looking the Glo:gg essence I also found
     the pre-measured ingrediants for brewing your own home-made
     Glo:gg, or at least the brew into which you add the wine and/
     or vodka.  The pouch of ingrediants contained a variety of dried
     spices, almonds, rasins, and I think even orange rinds, but I can't
     remember.  So my question is, can I substitute and/or add these
     ingrediants to the recipe?  How should the almonds be treated?

This recipe, especially with the addition of the Glo:gg stuffs sounds
both promising and tasty, the perfect Yule-tide spirit for the Home-
coming.  But, as I'm always the novice at this craft, I'd really
appreciate any input, guidance, words of experience and adivse from
others who can impart their brewing wisdom  ;-)  .

As always, Cheers

John

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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 10:08:30 MDT
From: pjd at craycos.com (Phil Duclos)
Subject: GABF '92

Some of you have asked, so I thought I would fill you in on my experience at
the GABF this year.

This was my first time at the GABF. I decided to go up early on Saturday for
the AHA members only tasting at 2pm and then return at 6:30pm for the regular
session. The 2pm session was wonderful. ~700 beers and about as many people.
There were serving people there although the adverts claimed "just you and 
the beer." Oh well.

I tried the chili beer from Crazy Ed's in Cave Creek, AZ first. This was
probably a mistake as it was really hot! I had to ask and yes, they do put
a chili in each bottle. My palate was ruined. I had a couple other non-
descript tastes on that aisle and then hit what was to become my favorite of
the evening, Celis White from the Celis Brewery in Austin TX. It was 
wonderful. I really like spicy tasting beers (not chili!) and the Celis White
is flavored with coriander and orange. The other 2 Celis brews were good too,
but the White won Gold a little later in the day.

There were plenty of other great beers, some flavored, some not. It quickly
became difficult to choose which to try. We only had 3 hours and even though
they only poured about 1 ounce, it quickly adds up. Pacing is important. This
makes the decision quite difficult. I avoided most of the ones I can get
locally or have tried before, except, of course, my favorites. I did taste
a few bad beers. A couple had that "cooked corn" taste and a few had too
much phenolic. Only one was truly bad and had to be poured out. I thought
to myself, strolling past the empty Coors booth, that its quite easy to
get spoiled with access to this much good beer.

I bought a commerative T-shirt ($21!!!!!! AHA isn't losing money on this
affair). There was quite an assortment. All quite pricey.

They kicked us out at 5pm, said something about Dobermans. I left.

I came back about 6:45pm with my wife and mother in law for the evening 
session. Wow! What a line! Too many people. Having seen the size of the
hall already I was curious about where all these people standing in line
outside thought they were going. We got inside and found out. What was
earlier a large airy hall had become a snarled sea of people. We quickly
grabbed our glasses and headed for the "Z" section which was furthest from
the door. Most of the mass was slamming drinks in the "A-C" section so it
wasn't too crowded at the other end. We had a couple nice beers on that aisle
but I noticed a disturbing trend. Some of the better beers had run out!
It quickly became a race against the masses to reach all the beers which had
won medals. We missed a bunch and were disappointed.

I was also disappointed by the crowd's attitude. At the earlier session, it
was most common to see people tasting their beers with a careful attitude.
At the evening session it became apparent that many were there merely to
slam back a few beers. Quite a few times I had to wait while a couple of
guys slammed down each of the brewery's different beers in quick succession.
I was reminded of chugging contests in college. Now I'm not trying to tell
others how to drink beer, but it seemed a waste of both good beer and a rare
opportunity for the drinker when the goal became quantity, not quality.
It was humorously suggested that the mega-breweries have booths which
provide full 12 ounce glasses for those who are intent on slamming. This,
of course, is a bad idea, but the joke seemed appropriate at the time.
We left early.

In conclusion, I had a wonderful time in the afternoon, but the evening
session was a zoo. The volunteers were working hard, but I will probably
volunteer next year. Friday night might be better just because all of the
beers were available. Of course on Friday night you don't know who the
winners are (just have to judge for yourself). Saturday afternoon is
not to be missed. There were too many really good beers to remember them
all. Its easy to become disoriented and confused about which beers you
tried and liked because there are so many. A lot of brewmasters were on
hand in the afternoon and the discussions sometimes got technical. Everyone
(except the Dobermans) was quite friendly and many seemed to be having a
truly good time. I'll be back next year.

phil


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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 14:10:05 EDT
From: strahs at medusa.bioc.aecom.yu.edu (Dan Strahs)
Subject: Who are the Great Amer Beer Fest winners?

	Since I haven't seen it posted here yet, and it is Wednesday...

	Would someone who has the answer please post the winners list
from the Great American Beer Festival?

	Thank you


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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 12:26:11 EDT
From: localhost!davevi at uunet.UU.NET (David Van Iderstine)
Subject: Re: Orange Zest

While all these techniques for removing an orange's zest (the orange
part, excluding the inside white part) are fine, there is a kitchen
implement call, strangely enough, a "zester". It is a somewhat
spoon-shaped device, with a row of sharp-edged holes in the end of it.
It very effectively removes little strings of orange stuff into a
waiting vessel. Mine cost around $3, at better and worse kitchen stores
near you.

dave			davevi at pharlap.com




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Date: 07 Oct 1992 14:40:18 -0500 (EST)
From: ACS_JAMES at VAX1.ACS.JMU.EDU
Subject: microbreweries & brewpubs in Seattle?


I'll be in Seattle Oct 13-18 for the ToolBook Developers Conference.  Are
there any good brewpubs or microbreweries in the area?

James W. Wilson, Manager	Internet  acs_james at vax1.acs.jmu.edu
Media Technology Lab		Bitnet    acs_james at jmuvax
James Madison University

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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 11:59:14 PST
From: "BOBBY JONES" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Yeast starters from Micah Millspaw


>Subject: liquid yeast starters

>anyone ever put hops in their liquid yeast starters?
>if so why?  anyone not do it?

 I feel that this question opens a whole can of worms as far as
yeast propagation goes. While it might not hurt anything to put hops
in the yeast starter it can serve little but to increase the cost of the
process ( oh, it is possible that the hops can lower the ph enough to 
help, but its not a viable method of ph justment). The approaches that
homebrewers seem to take to yeast propagation is often the result of
misinformation, marketeering and just plain wrong thinking about the
metabolic process of yeast.
 The common way the hbers increase their pitching volumes is
buy using dry malt extract (and sometimes hops) and water, boiling
it, cooling it and adding yeast. So what have you got? A little
batch of beer. The little batch of beer will help you get a somewhat
faster start at fermention but it realy not what you need and plus
DME is very expensive and messy.
 Here is where understanding comes in. It is known that yeast
have two major life cycles (metabolicaly speaking) aerobic and aneaerobic.
This is the idea behind aerating the cooled wort. You see the yeast
need to have oxygen (and other trace gases) to respire, in the respiratory
mode they reproduce much, much more effectively than at any other time.
If they reproduce, you get more yeast, which is what you want rather 
than a little batch of beer.
 So the trick is to set up conditions in your yeast starter
that encourage the yeast to respire and hence increase bio mass. The
most practical way for homebrewers is to use proper yeast nutrients 
( which have been dicussed on earlier HBDs) and prehaps more
importantly proper carbohydrate sources. It is known that yeast can
respire more effectively when exposed to some carbohydrate sources than
others. Brewers yeast does the worst (as far as reproduction goes) on
maltose and other mash derived complex sugars. It follows that the use
of dry malt extract is not the best choice. Interestingly, brewers yeast
respires best with sucrose, glucose and galactose, these occur in common
sugar ( like from the grocery store). Also this type of sugar is not very
pure and contains all sorts of excellent trace nutrients that the yeast
like. This stuff is readily available in powdered form ( which mixes up
more easily) and is very cheap. 
 With any luck this will help HBers off to faster starts and
better brews. Just remember, you want to grow yeast not make little 
batches of beer.

                                   Micah Millspaw
                                   10/7/92

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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 15:13 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: McAndrew's Addendum

As I was sipping my McAndrew's Scotch Ale this afternoon (I'm vacationing
this week), I remembered my post on duplicating this fine brew.  Suddenly,
I realized that neither I, nor Bill mentioned the smokiness of McAndrew's.
Historically, Scotch Malts were kilned in peat-fired kilns, so the malts
got a smoky flavor which was subsequently passed on to the beverages they
were used to make.  To add that smoky flavor, I would suggest smoking a
quarter pound of pale malt (if you're mashing) or crystal malt (if you're
brewing from extract + specialty grains) and then adding that to your
brew.

And now, back to my honeymoon, already in progress...
Al.

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Date: 7 Oct 92 13:51:00 -0700
From: KRUSE_NEIL at Tandem.COM
Subject: Powdered sugar vs. corn sugar

What differences, if any could I expect from using powdered sugar instead
of corn sugar for priming an amber ale?

Neil   kruse_neil at tandem.com

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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 16:12:14 PDT
From: cs060215 at gaia.ecs.csus.edu (Don Levey)
Subject: Plastic Bottles

Please forgive me if this subject has come puup before; I am new here
and have seen something which has me concerned. I have seen some discussion
of plastic soda bottles used for brewing. I have always been told that
this is a bad thing to do for several reasons. First, that the plastic
is slightly pourours, and so the brew will slightly oxidize.
Second, and more important, I have been told that the alcohol will tend
to dissolve the polymers, introducing a small bit of poisonous plastic into
the brew.

Anty chemists who can confirm/refute this?

 -Don Levey
 CSU Sacramento

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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 12:01:43 CDT
From: whg at tellabs.com
Subject: Sorry Jack...


Sorry Jack but I just couldn't resist.  It seems to me that back when you 
were trying to get people to define the difference between an ale and a lager
(sort of like trying to describe the difference between apples and oranges BTW)
you just wouldn't buy it when people describe a lager as cleaner. You wanted
to know what that meant. Well, what to my wondering eyes did appear in
yesterday's digest? Jack S.  describing the taste of his first lager as
"cleaner" than any of his previous beers. Don't knock a description till
you've tried it I always say. ;-)

Satirically yours,
Walt

Walter Gude    ||   whg at tellabs.com

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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 22:53 CDT
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Belgian Malt

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 I just received an info kit from Siebel describing the De Wolf-Cosyns 
 Maltings Company in Belgium and their yeast and brewer's supplies.  The yeast 
 is a bit high priced for home brewers ($100 for two slants) but I notice they 
 also supply dry yeast.  Apparently, engough brewers use dry yeast to make it 
 worth their while to sell it.
 
 Much to my delight, when thumbing through the color brochure on the malting 
 operation in Belgium, I came across the statement, "steam heated indirect 
 kilning".  There is also a pictorial diagram of the kilning system with 
 another reference to indirect steam heating.
 
 Contrary to the misinformation (or lack of) I got on the phone, it seems that 
 I now have found a local source of indirectly kilned malt, and the highly 
 touted Belgian malt to boot.  It costs a bit more than the stuff I was buying 
 from Minesota but I can pick it up and save the shipping charges and come out 
 even.
 
 I was going to try this stuff anyway on my next batch of ale but now I can do 
 it without feeling that I am compromising my anti-nitrosamine crusade.
 
 I am going to use the Pale Ale malt and exactly the same recipe as my most 
 recent batch of ale and see if I can taste any difference.   Needless to say, 
 I will report back with the results.
 
 js
 
 p.s.  I would like to get a Corona for making tortillas.  (honest)  I have an 
 early vintage MM that I would be willing to trade, preferably someone near 
 Chicago.
 
 jjs
 

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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:10:23 -0800
From: eurquhar at sfu.ca
Subject: Yet another use for Wyeast Belgian... Mead

        Well, my first batch of fruit mead (melomel?) was brewed up last
Sunday.  Several contributing factors inspired me to try a mead.  First,
honeybee researchers at SFU sell exceptional raw honey every year at a
reasonable price.  Second, the very good bartlett pears were available at
as decent price and ginger goes very well with them.  Lastly, all this talk
of the banana/fruit/caramel flavours created by Wyeast belgian and its
ability to ferment to high alcohol therefore providing aging potential. 
The thought of these flavours coming together was more than I could stand. 
The basic composition followed the proportions published in the excellent
article in the latest zymurgy issue.

Pear/ginger mead/melomel/metheglin (take your choice)

5 lbs pears, seeds and flower end removed and frozen so they would breakup
easier
5 lbs raw new honey (wildflower/raspberry/blackberrry blend)
3 oz. finely ground fresh young ginger (more lemony than mature ginger)
1 primed package Wyeast belgian #1214
1/2 tsp. pure ascorbic acid (to keep the pears from going brown and because
it tastes like lemons)
1/2 tsp. Difco yeast nitrogen base (yeast nutrient)
16 cups water

Everything but the yeast nitrogen base was put into a big pot and brought
up slowly to 200 F and kept there for 20 minutes to pasteurize and extract
the ginger flavour and allowed to cool down naturally (about 2 - 3 hours). 
Next time, I'll extract the ginger with boiling water a few times to get
more ginger flavour out and add as part of the water used (the ginger
flavour is only sparingly soluble in water).  The final specific gravity
was 1.100.  Any comments/questions/suggestions would be gratefully
appreciated.
YIELD: about 2 gallons in the primary

 ...p.s. It was bubbling like crazy 24 hours later and the banana was
evident when I opened the yeast envelope.  This weekend ginger beer!
Eric Urquhart (eurquhar at sfu.ca)
Centre for Pest Management, Dept. of Biological Sciences
Simon Fraser University, Burnaby , B.C. Canada


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #986, 10/08/92