FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  re: boil ALL the water (Jim Grady)
  Growing hops (Greg J. Pryzby)
  Unboiled brew water (The Ice-9-man Cometh)
  Re: Beginner questions ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  reusing yeast (Michael Gildner)
  chiller for fermenter (jim busch)
  Bananabrau revisited (David Pike)
  Crystal vs. Caramel, divers (Joseph Nathan Hall)
  Re: Aluminum Pots, White Spots on SS. (Bill Szymczak)
  Boiler Precipitate Removal ("John Cotterill")
  Re: Beginner Questions (korz)
  Carmelization/clorine/DMS (korz)
  Stuck ferment -- oops. (korz)
  Yeast nutrients,mini-kegs,molasses,stuck fermentations from Micah ("Bob Jones")
  used terms (Victor Reijs)
  lager yeats at higher temp. and stuck fregmentation (Victor Reijs)
  Re: sake (Victor Reijs)
  adjuncts and enzyme sources (Mark Garti  mrgarti at xyplex.com)
  William Mares "Making Beer" (fjdobner)
  Small Batches (Chris Cook, NMOS Quality Engineer - (301)386-7807)
  Al's Special London Ale (korz)
  The Big 1K (dbreiden)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 8:04:00 EDT
From: Jim Grady <jimg at hpwalq.wal.hp.com>
Subject: re: boil ALL the water

In #995 Tom Dube asks about Dave Miller's recommendation to boil all the
water that gets into the fermentor and writes:

> The reason he gives for boiling is the presence of chlorine in tap water.
> Does this make sense?  Would boiling the tap water increase the
> chlorine concentration, or does it really help?

The purpose here is to get rid of the chlorine.  In his previous book, "The
Complete Handbook of Homebrewing," he recommends pre-boiling all water for
15 to 30 minutes to drive off the chlorine.  IMHO, it is a function of your
water supply.  When I lived in Lexington, MA, the water was quite good
and I could add it directly to the fermenter and the beers were fine for
my untrained palatte.  When I moved to North Andover, MA, I could smell the
chlorine in the water & the water dept. said the chlorine level was 0.7 ppm -
swimming pools range from 1 - 2 ppm.  I started boiling the water then; I
did not try a batch without boiling the water.

I would call your water department.  If you have Miller's previous book, he
lists all the minerals & gunk to ask about.  I found our water department
very helpful.

- --
Jim Grady                  |"Talent imitates, genius steals."
Internet: jimg at wal.hp.com  |
Phone: (617) 290-3409      |                    T. S. Eliot

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 7:57:10 EDT
From: gjp at virtech.vti.com (Greg J. Pryzby)
Subject: Growing hops

Due to unfortunate circumstances I have been away from brewing (and the 
digest) for a year. The good news is that I will be able to start brewing
again very soon.

The question I have is concerning growing my own hops. 

I am going to be moving to a place that I think will be great for growing
hops. Anyone who is growing their own, I would appreciate some pointers
(when, what, how, etc).

I will be living on the side of a moutain (I think of it as a hill, but it
is listed as a mountain) west of Washington DC, if that makes a difference.

- -- 
Greg Pryzby                                               uunet!virtech!gjp
Virtual Technologies, Inc.                                gjp at vti.com
Dulles, Virginia
Herbivores ate well cause their food didn't never run. -- Jonathan Fishman

******** Ask me about SENTINEL, The Ultimate Debugging Environment ********

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Date:    Wed, 21 Oct 1992 8:46:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: SMITH at EPVAX.MSFC.NASA.GOV (The Ice-9-man Cometh)
Subject: Unboiled brew water

>From: dube at GROUCHO.CS.NYU.EDU (Tom Dube)
> I have always added
>the extra few gallons of water straight from the tap to the
>fermenter.
>
>The reason [Dave] gives for boiling is the presence of chlorine in tap water.
>Does this make sense?  Would boiling the tap water increase the
>chlorine concentration, or does it really help?

Boiling tap water will drive off dissolved chlorine gas, which is what most
water utilities use to disinfect.  It will increase chlorIDE concentration,
which is generally not relevant to brewing because neither the original nor
the final concentration is very large.

I suspect that this problem is what is making my beers unpleasant.  All my
brews have had the same underlying nasty taste, despite my changing of many
variables (including going from dry to Wyeast).  At a brewclub meeting,
this taste was described as "medicine-y", and according to Dave's book,
chlorine residue can cause this problem.  One variable I have never changed
is that I add my 2-gallon boil to 3 gallons of cold tap water.  I intend
to boil all my water for the next batch to see if that fixes the problem.

Interestingly, none of my meads have had this taste.  This I do not
understand.  I would give a lot to make just ONE good batch of beer,
to prove to my friends that homebrew is not intrinsically bad...though
I like even my medicine brew better than Bud....


james
smith at epvax.msfc.nasa.gov (Internet)
"armchair rocket scientist graffiti existentialist
 deconstruction primitive performance photo-realist"


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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 10:27:19 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Beginner questions

J. Fingerle writes:
 > I used the Munton and Fison Stout Kit (3#5ozs).  It calls for 
 > 6 cups (2#3ozs) of spraymalt, which the clerk at the store 
 > said was unnecessary and recommended using 6 cups of the corn sugar
 > supplied with my kit instead.  I did this.  First, what is 
 > "spraymalt?"  Secondly, everything from Papizon to the NBS catalog
 > recommends against the use of that much corn sugar.  Is this correct
 > and why?

"spraymalt" is dried malt extract.  It is sometimes more convenient
than the canned stuff, especially since you can measure out arbitrary
amounts. 

Sugar is disrecommended because (1) it adds no body or flavor to the
beer, just alchohol, and (2) it can contribute to the development of a
"cidery" flavor.  In any case, 6 cups of sugar will contribute
significantly more alchohol than 6 cups of malt extract.

 > Also, the instructions on the label said add the softened malt, the 
 > spraymalt, and 1 gallon of boiling water to the primary and stir.
 > Again the same sources I've been reading almost universally recommend
 > adding the malt to boiling water and then continuing the boiling 
 > on the stove for some amount of time.  What's the difference?  Is this 
 > necessary?
You don't want the heat turned on while you are adding the extract to
the water.  If it is, you run a big risk of burning some of the
extract, as it immediately falls to the bottom of the pot, and needs
vigorous stirring to mix it into the water.  If you are using a
pre-hopped kit (as it seems you were), you really only need to get the
ingredients hot enough to kill nasty micro-organisms.  The sugar
certainly needs no more boiling. 

Boiling accomplishes two purposes: (1) it coagulates some proteins in
the malt extract, and (2) it extracts bitterness from the hops.
Purpose 2 has already been done in the manufacture of your kit, and to
some extent so has purpose 1.  You will get more crud (technically
called "trub", pronounced "troob") if you boil it for a while.  This
is stuff that could otherwise end up making your beer a little cloudy,
and could perhaps contribute some off-flavor notes in the long run.

On the other hand, if you are going to boil it, I would add more than
1 gallon of water.  Otherwise you run a significant risk of
caramelizing some of the sugars, darkening the wort and coarsening the
flavor.

 > bottled on the seventh day.  I opened one last night (its been a week)
 > and it was pretty good.  I will, of course, continue to let this batch 
 > age.
This is the bottom line, of course.  If you're happy with the end
product, then you did fine.  If, you want to continue to make better
and better beer, then some of the points covered above may help you to
do that.

=Spencer W. Thomas 		|  Info Tech and Networking, B1911 CFOB, 0704
   "Genome Informatician"	|  Univ of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu	|  313-747-2778, FAX 313-764-4133

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 09:01:24 EDT
From: mmlai!lucy!gildner at uunet.UU.NET (Michael Gildner)
Subject: reusing yeast


Hello,

I split a package of Wyeast into two starters about 2 months ago
and brewed a batch with the first starter and put the other in
the fridge in a sealed bottle.  I'm thinking of brewing again 
and I'm alittle unsure of how to use the refridgerated starter.
Should I boil up some malt for the yeast and try to get it 
bubbling again or are there any better suggestions? 

Thanks,
Mike Gildner
gildner at mml.mmc.com


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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 11:50:28 EDT
From: jim busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: chiller for fermenter

I am interested in building a chilling unit for my fermenter. 
Short of installing a glycol unit, does anyone have some 
ideas on effective chillers?  I am considering pumping
chilled water through copper lines, either submerged in the
fermenter, or wrapped around/jacketed.  Any innovative-   
do-it-yourself concepts out there?  Any basic refridge 
tips I should be aware of? Thanks, 
		
Jim Busch
busch at daacdev1.stx.com

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 8:59:28 PDT
From: davep at cirrus.com (David Pike)
Subject: Bananabrau revisited


bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss) writes:
> Unlike the first batch, this latest batch does not have the obnox-
> ious banana esters.  One other difference between the two batches
> was that the latest batch had 2 lb raw cane sugar in it.  Could the
> (relative lack of) simple sugars lead to the production of banana
> esters by the yeast?  Were all those banana estery batches people
> experienced also all-malt brews?  Did anybody use an appreciable
> amount of sugar in a batch fermented with yeast belgian, and notice
> excessive banana esters?  If so, what kind of sugar was it?
> 

We just recently made a Belgian Dubbel using this yeast, and 1lb. of
Demarara Sugar from the Cellar, with absolutely no banana taste or smell.
So maybe the sugar idea has some merit.
Lots of phenolics though, true to style. Hard to distiguish it from a
Chimay red. Get the Dubbel recipe from Rajotte Belgian Ale book!

Dave
davep at cirrus.com
> 


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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 12:37:35 EDT
From: joseph at joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Subject: Crystal vs. Caramel, divers



I'm still looking for an answer to my "Crystal vs. Caramel" question
of a week or so ago.  Again, George Fix implies that there is a difference
between "crystal malt" and "caramel malt" in his Vienna book, but
he doesn't tell us what that difference is.  Since I have not seen
this distinction made in any other book on brewing I've read, I'd
like to know exactly what the difference he recognizes is.

**

) From: dube at GROUCHO.CS.NYU.EDU (Tom Dube)
) But, looking at the "beginners" section of Dave Miller's 'Brewing
) the World's Great Beers', I see that he recommends boiling all
) of the water that ends up in the fermenter.  I have always added
) the extra few gallons of water straight from the tap to the
) fermenter.
) 
) The reason he gives for boiling is the presence of chlorine in tap water.
) Does this make sense?  Would boiling the tap water increase the
) chlorine concentration, or does it really help?

Boiling tap water removes chlorine very quickly.  Boiling is not necessary.
Aeration will remove it.  In fact, letting tap water stand in an open pot
for a couple of days or so will do it.  (I wouldn't recommend this,
though!)  Chlorine diffuses out of water fairly quickly at room temperature.
(It's not a matter of how soluble chlorine is, it's the fact that
there isn't any chlorine in the air.)

In general, chlorine in tap water will rarely be a problem.  Some
city water systems, however, have high chlorine levels and/or use
chloramines (chlorine + ammonia) to protect water.  The type of beer, 
water hardness, etc., all taken together determine whether you will
have a chlorophenol problem in your beer.

My suggestion is that if your beer tastes like Listerine, try boiling
your tap water.  I don't think that chlorophenol problems tend to
be subtle.

Sodium thiosulfate can be used to remove chlorine (and other
halogens) from your tapwater, although I haven't heard this recommended
for homebrewing.  A carbon filter is also 100% effective, and may
remove other impurities as well.

**

) From: Robert Pulliam <pulliam at monty.rand.org>
) [...] Also (and I know that this has
) probably been beaten to death) could someone let me know why no one
) uses Aluminum pots to brew with.

Many folks do.  In fact I have heard many more people say that they
brew successfully using aluminum than I have heard complain about
it.  Maybe the people who had problems with aluminum are silent about
it, I dunno.  (Maybe they can't remember.  :-) )

The heavy restaurant-grade pots are at least OK for the production
of beer.  Wine (with a lower starting pH) I don't haven't tried and
don't know about.  Don't bother trying a cheap aluminum pot.  Most 
"aluminum" is alloyed with one metal or another, and this apparently 
greatly affects its acid resistance.  I would avoid "shiny" aluminum
and go for either anodized (black-gray) or the dull silver finish
found on other restaurant-grade aluminum pots.

The problem you may have with aluminum is a marked metallic taste,
resulting from aluminum dissolved by the acid in your wort.
Apparently different people have different sensory thresholds for
this, so if you brew in aluminum and are unsure about your pot, take
some of your brew to several other folks for tasting.

In many respects, aluminum is far superior to stainless steel for
cooking.  In particular, your wort will never stick (under normal
conditions) to the bottom of a heavy aluminum pot, since aluminum
is an excellent conductor of heat.  You will also find that the hop
resins, caramelized wort, etc., at the surface of the liquid (the
"boiling ring") are much easier to scrub off, usually only requiring
a plastic scrubber with a little water and detergent, since they are 
not burned on.

uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe at uunet.uu.net
2102 Ryan's Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052
- -----My employer isn't paying for this, and my opinions are my own-----

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 13:55:42 EDT
From: bszymcz%ulysses at relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: Re: Aluminum Pots, White Spots on SS.

In HBD995 Robert Pulliam asks

> but extract will do just fine).  Also (and I know that this has
> probably been beaten to death) could someone let me know why no one
> uses Aluminum pots to brew with.

My wife (who, being Italian, cooks a lot of tomato sauce, and
also has a minor in chemical engineering)  told me that boiling
something acidic like tomatoes or wort can cause chemical
reactions with the aluminum to occur.  That is, the acid can eat
into the aluminum, initially causing pitting, and if boiled
long enough can actually compromise the structural integrity of
the pot.  Even worse, aluminum (carbonate?) or something
like that can get into your wort->beer->stomach->bloodstream.  

Also, in HBD995 John Cotterill asks:

>I was looking at my SS boiling kettle yesterday and I noticed the inside
>bottom is coated with some hard white crud. ....
>Even if its not a real problem, I want to remove it.  Does anyone know what
>works best for getting rid of the white stuff???

I had the same problem a few days ago.  After trying to scrub them
off with a bleach solution, B-Brite, and finally with a steel wool
soap pad without any luck, I again consulted my wife.  She told me
to try boiling some white vinegar in the pot, and like magic it
worked.  It even removed the small specks of rust which
I had on the bottom of my SS pot.

A few days ago in HBD993 Rob Bradley comments:

>Using Wyeast 1056 in my SNPA (a recipe similar to last season's ales)
>has knocked about 6 points off the final gravity.  I kind of miss the
>extra body, and the unexpected FG has thrown my hop/malt balance off.

I had a similar, but perhaps more drastic experience with a batch
of stout I bottled last Friday.  I was using Papazian's Dark Sleep
Stout recipe which calls for 

   6.6 lbs John Bull dark malt extract syrup (unhopped)
   1   lb dark DME
   1/2 lbs roasted barley
   1/2 lb black grain malt
   1/2 lb crystal malt
   2 oz bullion hops (boiling)

When I brewed this batch last year I used one package of dry
Edme ale yeast and obtained
       OG = 1.057
       FG = 1.028
This batch was very full bodied, relatively well balanced, and had
a pleasant licorice flavor.  For my new batch I used the same recipe
but used yeast A1 from Dr. Schiller's Yeast Culture Kit, which
I believe is the same as WYEAST 1056.  For this batch the starting
and final gravities were
      OG = 1.053
      FG = 1.014  !!!
Considering the amount of unfermentables in the recipe this final
gravity must be near some theoretical limit.
The difference in starting gravities is due to the fact that this time
I was fermenting a little more than 5 gallons (about 5 1/4 gal.)
While bottling, I tasted some of the new batch, which needless to
say was quite a bit dryer (similar in dryness to Guiness), but
was very clean tasting (not clear like Jack's lager).  Other factors
which may have influenced these results were:
1. The yeast for the new batch was pitched from a 1 liter starter,
   while the dry yeast used in last year's batch was simply
   sprinkled on top.
2. The new batch was fermented in glass carboys with 
   primary fermentation lasting 3 days, and secondary another 8 days.
   The previous batch used single stage fermentation for 13 days
   in plastic.

Bill Szymczak  bszymcz at ulysses.nswc.navy.mil

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 11:00:37 PDT
From: "John Cotterill" <johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com>
Subject: Boiler Precipitate Removal
Full-Name: "John Cotterill"

Thanks to all who responded to my questions about removing the white 
precipitate on the bottom of my boiler.  The consensus is that the stuff
is calcium carbonate.  The following suggestions were given as a means of
removal:                    
                           1)  Vinegar
                           2)  Lime-a-way plus detergent wash
                           3)  Caustic Soda
                           4)  Brillo pad plus elbow grease

Thanks again gang.  I'll start with the vinegar.
JC
johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 12:58 CDT
From: iepubj!korz at ihlpa.att.com
Subject: Re: Beginner Questions

Jimmy writes:
>Hello everyone, I hope you don't mind some questions from
>a beginner.

Not at all.  We all started as beginners.

>Two weeks ago, I bought my equipment kit and brewed
>my first batch.  I followed the instructions on the can of malt
>but almost everything I've been reading since I brewed tells me
>that I should not have followed them.  The specifics:
>
>I used the Munton and Fison Stout Kit (3#5ozs).  It calls for
>6 cups (2#3ozs) of spraymalt, which the clerk at the store
>said was unnecessary and recommended using 6 cups of the corn sugar
>supplied with my kit instead.  I did this.  First, what is
>"spraymalt?"  Secondly, everything from Papizon to the NBS catalog
>recommends against the use of that much corn sugar.  Is this correct
>and why?

I offer that the clerk at your store gave you misinformation.  This is
unfortunate.  One of the great advantages of buying from a store rather
than mailorder is, that you've got a person who can advise, taste your
beer, advise again, etc.  It's too bad that the clerk at the store was
not as well informed as they should have been.

Onward.  Spraymalt is another name for Dried Malt Extract.  It is
basically the same as Extract Syrup except that *all* the water has
been removed.  About 20% of the weight of Malt Extract Syrup is water,
so it only has 80% of the "strength" of dried malt extract, pound for
pound.

You're right about the corn sugar.  Virtually everyone (except the
industrial brewers) agree that all-malt is best and that corn sugar
should be left out of your beer recipes.  Some, such as some Belgian
beers and some English beers, call for non-malt sugars like Candi sugar
and Demerara sugar, but generally, they are a small percentage of the
fermentables.  Why?  Because corn sugar ferments out to a cidery (like
apple cider, or even lemonade) flavor.  I tasted a homebrewed "beer" in
Canada last year that tasted like watered-down apple cider -- you guessed
it -- more than 50% of the fermentables were from corn and table sugar!

>Also, the instructions on the label said add the softened malt, the
>spraymalt, and 1 gallon of boiling water to the primary and stir.
>Again the same sources I've been reading almost universally recommend
>adding the malt to boiling water and then continuing the boiling
>on the stove for some amount of time.  What's the difference?  Is this
>necessary?

Munton & Fison (I have been told and have reason to believe based upon
my use of M&F) malt extracts require a shorter boil than most malt extracts.
Perhaps this is because M&F boils their wort longer before concentrating it
into a syrup, but I've gotten very little hot (and cold) break from my
M&F Syrup batches.  If you are adding boiling hops, you still need a 60 minute
boil if you want to get ~30% utilization of your hops.

The purposes of the boiling are:

1. to sanitize the wort (the water-extract-hop soup),

2. to isomerize (i.e. make soluble) hop oils from any hops you added to
the boil,

3. to coagulate large proteins so they don't cause haze in your finished
beer (this is called hot break), and

4. in the case of all-grain beers (beers primarily made from grains rather
than from extract), to boil off excess water (i.e. after extracting all
the goodies from the grains, you've got 7 gallons of wort, but you want
to make a 5 gallon batch).

>In any event, the beer seems OK so far.  Bubbling through the lock
>began at about 48 hours, reached its peak activity at about 80 hours
>and stopped by the fifth day.  After checking with the hydrometer, I
>bottled on the seventh day.  I opened one last night (its been a week)
>and it was pretty good.  I will, of course, continue to let this batch
>age.

You did not mention any priming sugar.  Some recipes, and I don't know
if M&F recommends this, suggest that you bottle when the gravity drops
to a particular level and then relies on the remaining sugars to carbonate
the beer.  This is not the most reliable method of carbonation.  I suggest
that you let the beer ferment out completely (I wait till the airlock
bubbles less than 1 bubble per 2 minutes, but that's probably excessive),
siphon the beer into a sanitized food-grade bucket, add priming sugar
(boil 1/2 to 3/4 CUP of sugar in two cups of water), stir gently to
mix and then bottle.

Al.

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 13:35 CDT
From: iepubj!korz at ihlpa.att.com
Subject: Carmelization/clorine/DMS

Mark asks:
>what is carmelization?

Chemically, I can't tell you, but empirically, it is the darkening (toasting)
of sugars.

>how does it happen?

The heat you add to the mash kettle, decoction kettle or boil kettle causes
it.

>what do you do not to get it?

Don't add too much heat and stir, stir, stir!

>do you ever want it?  if so why?

Some styles of beer (Lambics, for example) rely on some caramelization for
flavor -- it tastes like..., well..., caramel!  An HBD poster a few years
ago suggested using gravy browning to add caramel flavor and color.  You
can also get it from using darker Crystal malts (also called Caramel malts!).
You can use it to your advantage (not in Pilsners :^) but it's a bit tricky.
I suggest using Crystal malts -- they are much more repeatable.

and then later:
>what is DMS?  how is related to brewing?

DMS is dimethylsulfide.  It smells like cooked sweet corn or (some say)
cooked cabbage.  In most styles of beer, it is undesirable even in small
quanitities and undesirable in all in larger quantities.  It comes
primarily from the malt itself and can come from bacterial infection.
One reason for boiling that I forgot to mention in my earlier post is
that boiling drives off DMS.  DMS is created from it's precursor, which
is inherently in the malt (some malts have more than others of this
pre-cursor, S-methyl methionine) during kilning, mashing, boiling and
cooling.  However, most of it is boiled off during the boil or scrubbed
out by CO2 during the ferment.  From the time you turn off the heat in
the boil, till you cool below 140F, more DMS is being created.  The two
things you can do to minimize the creation of DMS in your final product,
is to maintain good sanitation and cool the wort from 212F down to below
140F as quickly as possible (with a wort chiller of some kind).

Also, Tom asks, why boil your tapwater:
>The reason he [Miller] gives for boiling is the presence of chlorine in
>tap water.  Does this make sense?  Would boiling the tap water increase the
>chlorine concentration, or does it really help?

Chlorine is quite volatile and will boil off, so boiling decreases the
concentration of Cl.  Another reason to boil all your water is to kill
any bacteria that may be in it.  Another reason for doing a full boil
is because a lower gravity boil will increase your hop utilization --
something you must compensate for when trying to duplicate a full-boil
recipe while using a partial boil.  I suggest everyone should have a copy
of the Hops Special Issue of Zymurgy -- turned to Jackie Rager's article
on hop utilization every time they formulate a recipe.  I do.

Al.


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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 13:45 CDT
From: iepubj!korz at ihlpa.att.com
Subject: Stuck ferment -- oops.

Yesterday, I wrote:
>GREG PYLE believes that he has a stuck ferment because his 15 gallon
>batch has stopped at 1.020:
>
>        [stuff deleted]
>>I have been told that if you multiply a recipe by more than two, stuck
>>fermentation is unavoidable because the centre of the carboy has a much higher
>>temperature than the sides of the carboy thereby damaging active yeast. Is
>>there anyone who knows how to avoid these problems for brewing batches over 5
>>gallons?

I forgot to address what I wanted to address!  I don't believe "the centre
of the carboy has a much higher temperature than the sides of the carboy
thereby damaging active yeast."  A few degrees higher won't harm yeast, but
I don't think there's even a several degree difference.  Consider that the
warmer wort would rise and draw cooler wort in from the bottom -- if indeed
the centre is warmer than the sides, that's GOOD, I would say.  In such a
case, the center would indeed rise and draw cool wort from the bottom and
thus sides, and therefore create convection currents -- this would rouse
a flocculent yeast.  However, I don't think the temp differences are big
enough to do this.

Al.

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 11:55:34 PST
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Yeast nutrients,mini-kegs,molasses,stuck fermentations from Micah


 
 Sorry, I haven't been responding much lately, I did see that post with 
 the nutirent questions but later forgot all about it. Also there have 
 been several E messages about this to me I 'll post an answer.
  Most definitly do not use that yeast nutrient with the urea base.
 These are really cheap nutrients and they are based in the idea that yeast
 can directly metabolize ammonia in the presence of nitrogen, hence urea!
 Unfortunately it doesn't smell or taste good IMHO. (some may be accustomed
 to this taste) In the past this has been a huge problem for mead makers 
 resulting in several year aging times for the urine smell to go away. 
 This is not viable for beer with its lesser shelf life. I have actually
 met mead makers and hbers who thought that the ammonia smell was supposed
 to be in the flavour profile of their meads and even liked it.
  I use Diffco's nitrogen base nutrient for yeast. I've noticed that
 others on the HBD use this as well, perhaps a posting would help 
 find a source in your own local.
 
 
 >This past weekend I acquired a 2 1/2 gallon mini-keg called a "Reynolds
 >Tapper."  It has a built-in tap (labeled "Falstaff" which I assume is some
 >cheap Yankee beer :) and is barrel-shaped, meant to lie on its side, cask-
 >style.  It is filled from one end, and the sealing cap has some funky
 >valves and a gas cylinder in it.  It looks like the idea is, you fill this
 >with beer, stopper it, and charge the cylinder with enough CO2 to dispense
 >the brew.  Neato.
 
 A few years ago one of the guys from the club got one of these little kegs
 and brought it to me to figure out. What I ended up doing was altering
 the CO2 cylinder in it to be refilled by the owners CO2 set up on his
 draft system. This was done by removing the exsisting "bicycle" type
 valve and drilling it out to accept an 1\8 NPT (pipe thread) this was
 then adapted to an pin lock fitting purchased from FOXX Equipment. The
 resultant little keg proved quite useful for outdoor activities.
 
 
 >I'd like to prime with molasses.  Papazian suggests 1 cup/5 gallon batch.
 >Unfortunately, he doesn't specify the type of molasses.   As many of you have
 >guessed, the beer is Yorkshire's Old Peculiar and the list of fermentables
 >includes 2#s dark brown sugar.
 >I have 12oz. of Brer Rabbit dark `full flavor' molasses I'd like to use. The
 >question is, how much?
 
 If your making an Old peculiar copy I suggest that you use Lyles black
 treacle instead. It will give the proper flavour profile. Use no more
 than 6 ounces, 3 should be enough as it is very strong flavoured by not
 especialy fermentable. Lyles treacle syrup is a common item in British
 import shops.
 
 
 >Subject: Stuck fermentation?
 
 >I have acquired 2 15 gallon carboys for brewing beer.  I have used them for 
 >three batches now and I have had problems with each one.  Each time I have 
 >brewed in them, I simply took a 5 gal recipe and multiplied all of the 
 >ingredients by 3. After the secondary fermentation, the specific gravity 
 >would be about 1.020. This would normally mean stuck fermentation.  I can 
 >usually get the fermentation going again if I stir up the bottom vigorously.
 >I have been told that if you multiply a recipe by more than two, stuck 
 >fermentation is unavoidable because the centre of the carboy has a much higher 
 >temperature than the sides of the carboy thereby damaging active yeast. Is 
 >there anyone who knows how to avoid these problems for brewing batches over 5 
 >gallons?
 
 I have been brewing 15 gallon batches for several years and find them easier 
 than fives. I am guessing that the problem is that you didn't at least
 triple the amount of yeast that you pitched when you tripled the other
 ingredients. This story about the vessel size is a crock of #% at #%, if
 it where true AB in Fairfeild would be in trouble, their fermenters are
 1600 barrel each (1600*31=gallons). So I say use lots of yeast. Ten percent
pitching rate works great for me. 

micah  10/20/92

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 20:22:24 +0100
From: Victor Reijs <Victor.Reijs at SURFnet.nl>
Subject: used terms

Hello all of you,

Because I am coming from Euroep, I have sometimes some problems with
your wordinngs;-). Could somebody help me with the following:
grist
quart
2#s dark brown sugar
DMS
wyeat 2112

I known that these could be basic items for you, but I have never
heard about them.

Thanks for your explanations.

All the best,

Victor

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 20:36:55 +0100
From: Victor Reijs <Victor.Reijs at SURFnet.nl>
Subject: lager yeats at higher temp. and stuck fregmentation


Hello all of you,

I think that it will not be a problem to use lager yeast at room
temperature. All the wine/beer yeast belong to the same family and
these work between 5 to 30 degree Centigrade. Yeast will go dead above
40 degrees Celsius. The lager yeats is only a yeast which will also
fregment at low temperatures, while normal yeast will not do it (like
wine yeast).

What yeast needs at the beginning of its live is oxigen. With out that
it can not multiply. So if you are making a lot of beer, be aware that
the water you are using has enough oxigen in it (water which has been
cooked will have a low oxigen content, so stir this water heavily!).
Another reason why a fregmentation can stop is that there is no sugar
any more. There are beer which will stop at 1020 (depending on the
type of ingredients and type of producing the malt.

I do not expect that yeast will go dead in the middle of a barrel,
because of the temperature. THe water will always circulate (due to
the temperature and due to the formation of CO2). But if you think it
is the temperature, measure it;-)

All the best,


Victor

- ------- End of Forwarded Message


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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 20:40:52 +0100
From: Victor Reijs <Victor.Reijs at SURFnet.nl>
Subject: Re: sake

Hello Will,

This is not a recipe but it is perhaps addition information! If
possible you can by at Japanes or Indian shops stuff which is called
'koji' or 'ragie' (these are the words we are using in Holland). This
is a kind of yeast which is able to fregment the strach of the rice.
After booling the rice for an hour and cooling it down one can put the
'koji' in the rice+water. After some 4 days it will taste sweet and
then the fregmentation will start.

If you get good results, please let us know.

All the best,


Victor

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 16:15:15 EDT
From: garti at mrg.xyplex.com (Mark Garti mrgarti at xyplex.com)
Subject: adjuncts and enzyme sources

i want to do a mini mash of some adjuncts to convert
their starches to sugars.  if these adjuncts don't have
their own enzymes i realize that they must come from
another source.  this other source can be chemical or
from a malt.  are these enzymes depleted by the reaction
they are catayzing? is temp the only enzyme destruction
mechanism?  can 1-2 pounds of adjuncts be converted with
the enzymes from 1/2 pound of malt or wheat?  do you need
to use roughly equivalent amounts?  do adjuncts such as
crystal or choclate, whose starches are mostly converted
or destroyed benefit at all by being included in this mini
mash?  ie do any starches remain and would inclusion
reduce help in the reduction of haze?  
Thanks
Mark    mrgarti at xyplex.com

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 16:12 CDT
From: fjdobner at ihlpb.att.com
Subject: William Mares "Making Beer"


A book entitled "Making Beer" by Willian Mares was issued this year. A
very nice easy reading book. As opposed to the many "how to" books that
enable us to improve/learn in hombrewing, Mr. Mares takes it one step 
further and adds some great personal stories of the hows and whys he
got into homebrewing. His stories begin though when the market for basic
homebrewing implements was very thin and so were the offerings.

I especially liked his replacement line for Mr Papazians "Relax. Don't
Worry. Have a Homebrew" nostrum. Mr. Mares line is "Pay Attention.
Worry Intelligently. And Have a Homebrew When You're Done." Words 
I can at least partially relate, except for that last bit.

I will probably have more to say about the book after I have finished.


Frank Dobner

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 17:30:31 -0400
From: cook at uars.DNET.NASA.GOV (Chris Cook, NMOS Quality Engineer - (301)386-7807)
Subject: Small Batches

When I wrote about trying 1-gallon, experimental beer batches, I didn't
think I would get the number of responses that I did.  I know you're
heard it before, but I still have to thank all the people who have
emailed be with suggestions and support.  I really didn't expect the
personal attention.

One question that many people asked was why I wasn't simply joining or
forming a larger group of homebrewers and trading recipes.  Five of us
could brew 5 batches and trade.  This would be much less work than five
individual experimenters making 25 little batches.

Unfortunately, that's not my answer.  Too much pride, I think.  Who
among us, if they were going to share their beer with, say, four other
skilled and knowledgeable beermakers, would brew a simple, possibly bad,
experiment?  Even shared, a batch is too much work to waste on
questionable, experimental stuff.

I know, I know, I (and my four friends) should have the emotional
fortitude to be able to avoid this 'Blockbuster' mentality.  I can't
speak for my friends, but I don't.  I simply wouldn't experiment as
monotonously as I need to.

Could you and 4 friends make 5 simple ales (five gallons each) with
1/2#, 1#, 2#, and 4# of Caravienne, along with a control batch, just to
see how the malt affects the taste?  How about batches mashed at 149,
152, 155, and 158?  I don't mean you any harm, but if you and your
friends have that kind of stamina, I think you should consider hanging
around with a different crowd.

Besides, everyone does this differently, and the noise from these little
differences could easily overshadow the experiment.  I know that my
methods aren't perfect, or even right, but at least they're consistent. 
Even if the five of us started with the same ingredients and directions,
I'm pretty sure the differences would embarrass us all.

Some of the small-batch suggestions are very interesting.  One person
gave directions for doing the mash in the microwave.  Fantastic!  Who
could pass up trying that?  There were several variations on the
'coffee-can(s) taped together' lauter tun, although (given the small
thermal mass) I'm going to try to modify a 1 or 2 gallon thermos.

The one question still hanging in my mind is about Hop utilization
rates.  I've gotten contradictory suggestions about hop bitterness. 
Obviously there's been some research on scaling up from the common 5-
gallon batches to pilot brewery scale; I seem to remember that huge
breweries don't have to use anywhere near the hops rates we use.  Anyone
got some quick hints?

I'm still waiting for the Belgian malts to arrive, so I haven't started
yet.  Once I get moving, I'll be able to tell you more detail on the
mechanics.

Chris Cook
Cook at uars.dnet.nasa.gov

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 17:05 CDT
From: iepubj!korz at ihlpa.att.com
Subject: Al's Special London Ale

Due to numerous requests, I am posting my best yet recipe for
a clone of Young's Special London Ale.  Here it is:

Al's Special London Ale

6.6 lb     M&F Unhopped Light Malt Extract
1 lb 10 oz Laaglander Light Dried Malt Extract
1 lb       Crushed 2-row british Crystal Malt ~40L
1/2 tsp    Burton Water Salts
5.5 gal    Chicago Tapwater
2.1 oz     Northern Brewer Pellets (6.2%AA) (60 min boil)
1/4 tsp    Irish Moss (15 min)
0.5 oz     East Kent Goldings (whole) (5 min boil)
0.5 gal    Boiled Chicago Tapwater (added after boil to adjust OG)
8 oz       Starter from Wyeast #1028

1 oz       East Kent Goldings (whole) (dryhop last 7 days before bottling)

1/2 cup    Corn sugar for priming

Procedure particulars:
Steeped crushed crystal malt in a grain bag while the liquor + Burton Water
Salts went from tapwater temperature up to 165F.  Removed grain bag and let
"wort" drain out of it.  After boiling down to 5 gal, OG was 1071, so I added
the additional 1/2 gallon of boiled water (not a big deal, but hop utilization
would have been different with a 6 gallon boil).  By the way, Chicago water
is quite soft -- I suspect distilled would be close enough.

Fermentation in glass, with blowoff, at 68F.

Dryhops simply stuffed into the primary after fermentation ended, seven
days before bottling.

OG=1064
FG=1022 (yes a bit heavy, but yummy)

Comments:
Closest attempt yet to Young's Special London Ale.  Could use a bit
more diacetyl.  At the 1992 AHA National Conference, Charlie said:
"Great London Ale!"

Al.

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 19:12:24 -0500
From: dbreiden at dsuvax.dsu.edu
Subject: The Big 1K

I know I'm 4 issues early, but if there are any big parties planned for 
the 1,000th issue of the Digest, I'd love to attend!  So if any bashes
are planned near Pierre, SD, let me know.

*sigh*  something tells me I'll simply have to lift a pint in relative
isolation ....

- --Danny

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #996, 10/22/92