HOMEBREW Digest #1192 Thu 29 July 1993

Digest #1191 Digest #1193


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  HBD Subscription (r.wize)
  homebrew supply shop ?? ("BRIAN OWENS")
  Aeration (Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171  28-Jul-1993 0932)
  Extract efficency / Diacetyl Rest (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  jever thanks/low head retention/spiced beers (Chris Pencis)
  My First Batch ("Palmer.John")
  Re: American Standard Lager (Rick Myers)
  Re: Hot Water Heaters (Jeff Frane)
  FUN (Jack Schmidling)
  Correction, Bud bashing (Jeff Benjamin)
  New Brewer (Philip . Miller)
  Re: innoculating a starter from a petri dish (Todd Gierman)
  I'm back/Brewing careers/Chiller h2o/Mash thickness/Zima (npyle)
  St Louis Pubs/Bars (BadAssAstronomer)
  large SS brew put available (Bart Thielges)
  misc (Jim Busch)
  Wort Chiller Efficiency ("John C. Post")
  Re: Lager under water (Mark_Davis.osbu_south)
  Dallas beer info - Thanks! (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer)
  Dallas beer info - Thanks! (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer)
  Brussels Trip (roberts735)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Jul 93 17:39:00 BST From: r.wize at genie.geis.com Subject: HBD Subscription I would like to receive the HBD. My address is r.wize at genie.geis.com Thx alot, Rick Wize Return to table of contents
Date: 28 Jul 93 07:54:00 EST From: "BRIAN OWENS" <8160OWENS at indy.navy.mil> Subject: homebrew supply shop ?? Hi All, Long time listener, first time caller. My question goes to the Brew shop owners (and anyone else interested). Do you have any data that would tell what size population would support a homebrew supply shop? Has a market survey ever been conducted to determine this type of information? What size is the city you live in, and how many homebrew shops are in the area? Thanks for any info you can share. Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 09:37:36 EDT From: Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171 28-Jul-1993 0932 <macneal at pate.enet.dec.com> Subject: Aeration If you are doing a partial boil and dumping the hot wort into cold water you probably don't have to worry too much about aeration (unless you've preboiled your cold water). Pouring the hot wort through a sanitized strainer will also aerate it (as well as help remove hops and break material). I used this method for a full boil after cooling with a wort chiller and it seemed to work OK. If you don't like the strainer idea and want to siphon, you can simply put the lid on without an airlock and shake well. Other folks have used an aquarium pump and aeration stone. Someone the other day suggested that washing bottles in a dishwasher would merely sanitize and not sterilize. He was right, but sanitizing is all that is really necessary and is all bleach/iodine/whatever solutions will do anyway. Keith MacNeal Digital Equipment Corp. Hudson, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 08:48:24 EDT From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com Subject: Extract efficency / Diacetyl Rest Re: Extract efficency - I was under the impression that measuring the pre and post boil extract effiecency would result in unequal values. That the post boil value would be lower due to the precipitation of break materials. Has any one measured this? Do they differ? By how much? Re: Diacetyl rests - I too use the method described in Noonanan's book on lagers. I do a primary at 45F, diacetyl rest for 3 days at 48F then rack to 2ndary and "Hunter lager" at 40F I then chill to near 32F for the last week before kegging to percipitate out yeast and haze. Re: Brewing Techniques I too agree it is a fine magazine and that the 40 or so pages is a lot of material. I am not an AHA member, but doesn't the $29 sent to the AHA cover annual dues and the subscription to Zymurgy? I too agree that the "don't worry" philosophy gets old fast. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 9:14:36 CDT From: chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis) Subject: jever thanks/low head retention/spiced beers Hey everyone - first I want to thank everyone for the responses to my question about Jever...I believe I received something like 15 or 18 responses (please forgive my not responding to each individually). I now own a copy of Michael Jackson's Pocket Guide where the virtues of Jever are detailed - and yes, Fresia is in the northernmost regions of Germany (including the Fresian Is.). Here's my questions: I seem to be having trouble with head retention in all of my beers including store bought Sierra Nevada Summerfest et al. I believe cause may be residue in my glassware. However, I wash the glasses in the dishwasher with Cascade detergent - I use energy saver settings for the dry cycle. Let me clarify problems - there is sufficient carbonation in everything - the bubbles form about a 1/2-1" head on pouring but quickly subside to no more than 1/16" head to none at all. Any ideas....is this paranoia? Secondly - I am considering brewing a spiced ale for Christmas this year (its early but a few good months in the bottle and it takes me a while to get going anyway). I have done thread searches on back issues of the HBD and have looked in the Cat's Meow and have yet to see a clear agreement among brewers/recipes (*is such a thing possible*) as to the best way to add the flavoring: dry to the boil, dry hop, spice *tea*, or gloegg. Opinions (open the flood gates...)? Note: I am an extract brewer and am looking for o.g.s from 1040-1060. One last thing - I was watching STNG last night and it occurred to me to wonder just how the stardates are calculated...any answers? Sorry for the longwindedness ... thanks in advance good luck and good beer Chris ====================================================================== |Chris Pencis chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu | |University of Texas at Austin Robotics Research Group | ====================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: 27 Jul 1993 16:05:13 U From: "Palmer.John" <palmer#d#john at ssdgwy.mdc.com> Subject: My First Batch Hello Bruce (and all you other Bruces; "Crack Two") I made my first batch of Homebrew a month ago, and it is yucky. It was a kit beer from our local brew shop, Fun Fermentations in Orange Ca, and was supposed to be an American Lite beer. The batch seemed to have a cidery smell and taste the day I bolttled, (took me forever to get the at #&$#*! siphon to work) and after a month of aging, it doesn't taste any better. The beer has great color, a nice head, but the flavor is reminiscent of swamp water cider vinegar. Does anyone have a clue? Had a similar batch? I am wondering if my fermentation temperature was too high, it was often in the upper 70's in the house, probably 78. Yes, it was an ale yeast. BTW, I had a bottle of Paulener Salvator the other day, and it had some of the same flavor tones as my beer. Was that bottle of Salvator too long on the shelf at the store ie. light damaged? Is that why it tasted like mine, or is mine actually good? (nah) And another thing, Has anyone ever noticed the laxative qualities of homebrew in general or is this another symptom of my first batch? John Palmer PS. I am really bummed that the Beer Hunter won't be on the Discovery Channel again, I only have a couple episodes taped, and have been waiting to get the others. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 9:28:07 MDT From: Rick Myers <rcm at col.hp.com> Subject: Re: American Standard Lager > One thought: maybe we have been too harsh on Zima because we have > been judging it against our standard criteria for beer. I don't think > that Zima claims to be beer, but a malt beverage maybe (?), and it's > probably labeled "malt liquor" because of the goofy alcohol laws we > have in this country. So maybe Zima isn't bad for the *style* > (whatever the hell that may be...), just like Bud is an excellent > example of the American Standard Lager. > > Not! I definitely agree with the "Not!" part. Bud is NOT an example of the "American Standard Lager", it is "American PREMIUM Lager" (yeah, right). Examples of "standard" lagers are Schlitz, Pabst, etc. Rick "Will NOT drink Bud for food" Myers Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1993 09:14:19 -0700 (PDT) From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane) Subject: Re: Hot Water Heaters Jack Schmidling responded to Jim Busch: > > >From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> > >Subject: Hot liquor tanks > > >Has anyone converted a hot water heater into a hot liquor tank? I > have two options: 220V electric with 2 elements or a gas fired unit. > > One problem with a closed water heater you may want to think about is the > fact that chlorine and other volatiles in the water have nowhere to go. In > an open vessel they evaporate continually. > > It beats me why this should be a problem. Jim is simply suggesting using a hot water heater to provide very hot water for mashing, sparging, etc. Why should this be a chlorine problem? In answer to Jim's question, at least one of the McMenamin brewpubs in Oregon uses exactly this system -- lots of pipes running out of that water heater that aren't standard! Jack, every hot liquor (water) system I've seen in a brewery is closed. - --Jeff PS. I made it to one day of the AHA conference, attending the Board of Advisors meeting and judging in the 2nd round of the competition. All of you stay-at-homes will be glad to know that the weather yesterday was gorgeous (in the 80s), the programs were interesting, the beer was excellent, and Portland is better than wherever you are. Today, of course (I'm back at work), it's cloudy, it'll probably rain, and all the beer has spoiled. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 11:14 CDT From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: FUN Aint if fun seeing an article the morning after you submit it. Knew something good had to come from the AHA conference. Got all those loudmouths away from their keyboards. :) < for the benefit of the humor impaired. re: Brewing Techniques >I too have received and started reading BT #2. The editor pledged to keep advertising always less then 50% of the mag's content. Apparently, a few people wrote in letters complaining about the size of the mag., but, when added up, it compares favorably to others. It will be interesting to see how long BT keeps that pledge. Money and sometimes survival have a strange way of making people forget their pledges. If a non-profit group like AHA has degenerated to 90% ads, what do you expect from a for-profit company like BT? At the moment, BT can survive on fewer ads because they don't pay contributors for articles. And remember, it is alway easy to get fresh new articles for a new publication but down the road, they will have all the usual problems of getting stale. BT is a breath of fresh air but only subscribers and a much higher subscription rate can keep it pure if combined with a rigid policy of ad restriction. However, ad sales people just do not say NO to one more ad. >From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca> >Subject: Hot water tanks >You can use a hot water heater, but not connected as a household water heater. Connect the water input line as usual, but leave the top outlet open, perhaps with a wide clear open tube connected to the top outlet. Sounds like you have re-invented the EASYSPARGER. Not sure why one would want to heat a large amount of water and just let it sit or have to keep it hot till needed. The ES allows a continuous flow of hot water at any desired temp, evaporates the chlorine, takes up only about .5 cuft of space and needs to contain only one gallon of water. >In HBD #1190 Jonathan Gibbens asks: > How do you sufficiently aereate your wort before it goes into the fermenter? In glass it's easy . . . The simplest method is to fill a one gallon jug and shake this a bit and then just glug it into the fermenter. With two jugs, you can be filling one while glugging the other. The only problem is that this works so well, you will have to beat down the foam to get all your wort in and you must, of course, use sanitized jugs. I did this for years with great success but now I have a pump and a narrow nozzel at the end of the hose which provides aeration as it squirts into the fermenter. >From: atzeiner at iastate.edu >Subject: innoculating a starter from a petri dish >I just started culturing yeast and have two ale yeast cultures in petri dishes..... I was wondering if it was possible that there was enough yeasties in the glob that I picked up to make a decent starter in only a few hours. How much yeast should you pick up to innoculate a 6 or 7 oz starter?? You can, theroetically, innoculate a whole batch with a single cell but this and your approach are not recommended for a very good reason. One cell of culture yeast would be competing with many cells of uninvited stuff, even in a sanitary environment, and would probably lose the race to get established. The larger the amount of culture and the smaller the batch size, the better the prospects of winning. I would not start more than 50 ml or so with a loop-full of culture. When this is fermenting, you can start 200 ml and to do it right, start 500 ml with this. I would never attempt to start a batch with less that 500 ml of working wort. You would be much better off to transfer the petri culture to slants and use these to start your starter. I cover the slant with wort and use this as a one time, pure culture starter. The petri stage can be eliminated entirely if you are confident of the qualtiy of the original slant culture. Just transfer a single innoculation to a half dozen slant tubes and use these to start others. You don't have to go back to the original unless you screw up or something changes. js Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 10:26:52 MDT From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com> Subject: Correction, Bud bashing Whoops, I just noticed an error in my previous post that might be confusing. > > 2. When calculating my extraction efficiency, do I use the gravity of > > the wort fresh from the tun or after the boil? > > Assuming you add no water during the boil, both measurements should give > you pretty much the same thing. The amount of water evaporating will be > proportional to the increase in gravity. The above statement is not correct. The gravity before the boil is usually quite different from the gravity after the boil. After all, one of the purposes of the boil is to increase the gravity. What I meant was that the total number of points stays constant. Using the v*p=T formula, if T is constant, then v and p are inversely proportional. So obviously if v goes down, p (gravity) goes up. > So maybe Zima isn't bad for the *style* > (whatever the hell that may be...), just like Bud is an excellent > example of the American Standard Lager. > > Not! We hear a lot of "Bud bashing" in this forum. Having drunk my share of Bud, Miller, Old Style, Red White & Blue, Huber, etc., I'll step out on a limb and defend the megabreweries (he says, as he dons his asbestos undies). Most serious beer people pooh-pooh the "American Standard Lager", but that style certainly fills a niche. The term "lawnmower" beer is not inapproriate, as a Budweiser is exeactly what I feel like drinking after mowing the lawn on a hot day. Why not just drink water, some would say. To my palate, the slight bitterness of American swill is more refreshing. I would also challenge many skeptical homebrewers to brew a lager as light and clean as a Bud. Ingredients are quite different from your average homebrew (uncured malt, adjuncts, etc.), you need techniques to minimize wort darkening and esters, and sanitation is paramount, as the slightest off flavor or aroma will be noticeable. In fact, early in my homebrewing career I tried to brew a Bud clone, and didn't even manage to come close. Becoming a homebrewer actually increased my appreciation of what the big boys do. - -- Jeff "still use Milwaukee's Best mostly for cooking" Benjamin benji at hpfcla.fc.hp.com Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado "Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium." - T.S. Eliot Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 11:48:25 CDT From: pmiller at mmm.com (Philip . Miller) Subject: New Brewer Dennis asks: >Does anyone know if _The New Brewer_ is of the same "quality" as >Zymurgy? It's published by the Institute for Brewing Studies (all in >the same office as the AHA, and others) and is billed as a "must-have" >for anyone interested in or working in the micro/brewpub field. My wife bought me a subscription to NB last year as a present. While the magazine still has a fair amount of advertising (but it's INTERESTING advertising because it's for bottling lines and 2 bbl systems rather than cans of syrup), the content is better than the average Zymurgy article in my opinion. Typically there will be an interviews or articles written by microbrewers about some facet of running a brewery. A couple of issues ago, a brewer talked about cobbling together a bottling line and the difficulties therein. This issue, there was a very interesting article about a pair of brewpub owners philosophy of running their business. (Basically, they said to concentrate on the food and atmosphere because just having good beer won't pay the bills.) There are also opening and closing notices of breweries across the country as well as a page or two describing events of general interest to the brewing community (such as pending legislation.) If I were a microbrewer or a brewpub owner, I think I'd find the $55 subscription fee worth my while but NB falls somewhat short of a "must- have". Since much of the information in NB doesn't pertain to me, I'll probably let the subscription lapse.... Phil Miller pmiller at mmm.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1993 13:11:01 -0500 From: tmgierma at raphael.acpub.duke.edu (Todd Gierman) Subject: Re: innoculating a starter from a petri dish atzeiner at iastate.edu (Tue, 27 Jul 93 12:18:56 CDT) writes: >I just started culturing yeast and have two ale yeast cultures in petri >dishes. Out of curiosity, I used my innoculating loop to scrape up a glob of >yeast and put it into a starter bottle(~1/2 full 12 oz. beer bottle). I didnt >really see much sign of fermentation, but after about 3 or 4 hours I looked at >it and it seemed to have yeast sediment in it. I was wondering if it was >possible that there was enough yeasties in the glob that I picked up to make a >decent starter in only a few hours. How much yeast should you pick up to >innoculate a 6 or 7 oz starter?? > That must have been some glob! Generally, a good starting volume when picking colonies (globs) from agar is probably no more than 2-4 milliliters of media (wort) - remember, less is more. You will see yeast sediment in your container (usually a small one, e.g. test tube) and bubbles trapped at the surface by the next day. At this point the volume can be increased 10-20 fold and then doubled each day thereafter, until you reach your pitching volume (1-2 liters). Why start with such a small volume and work your way up? Well, when culturing unicellar organisms such as yeast, bacteria, or animal cells, a minimum cell density is often required in order to promote and maintain vigorous growth. The stimulation of growth and metabolism requires the presence of factors that are secreted into the media (in this case secreted by the yeast into the wort). A low cell density probably means a low level of growth factors. Thus, you may experience either no growth or an incredible lag time, when inoculating large volumes. The schedule that I have suggested for increasing your culture volume requires nearly a week. Some planning ahead is required. You could start a culture anytime, work it up to a liter, allow the yeast to grow to saturation, and then stick the culture into the refridgerator for a week or two, until you are ready to pitch. Such a scheme would supply you with an excellent pitching culture, allowing your fermentation to get underway quite rapidly. Certainly, 1-2 liters seem like quite a lot, but those 40-ml Wyeast pouches are quite a little, though many people do get by with that amount. When picking from a plate, I would suggest that you pick more than one colony. Each colony originates from a single cell. Many commercial yeast cultures contain more than one strain of yeast (e.g. Whitbread). The fewer the colonies picked the better the chance that you have eliminated a strain from your culture (you know what that means). Pick from a region where many colonies have grown together. Scrape your loop along the entire region and inoculate your culture. Hope this proves useful. Todd M. Gierman Department of Microbiology Duke University Medical Center Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 11:15:22 MDT From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: I'm back/Brewing careers/Chiller h2o/Mash thickness/Zima Well, I return after a few weeks off to change jobs. In the meantime, I've brewed a wonderful American Pale Ale called Pyle Style Pale Ale. It is all-grain, using Mt. Hood and Cascade hops. If there is interest, I'd be glad to post the recipe. Jim Busch said in the last digest: ><questions about extract & a brewing career, snip > >First, if you are serious about being a pro brewer, you should really >switch to all grain brewing ASAP. Its not that much harder or expensive >and you will start to learn what its like to do the real thing. > >Secondly, we need more brewers with backgrounds in Chemistry. This is >not enough by itself, but you can augment this knowledge by inrolling in >Seibels short course in brewing technology or whatever they call it. It >is a 12 week course in Chicago. Before or after this, work in a brewery >doing anything to gain knowledge/experience. I agree completely. If you are serious about it, get serious about it. You won't impress any brewmeisters with a background in extract brewing. I have heard of some brewpubs that extract brew but I can't imagine how they make a profit; also, there are very few of them. That said, read on: I went to a Brewer's Dinner at the Walnut Brewery in Boulder last month and ate, drank, and talked with the Brewmaster, Head Brewer, and Assistant Brewer. It was a wonderful evening, with awesome food and a brewery tour to boot! The Brewmaster, Mark Youngquist, is a young professionally trained brewer who really knows his stuff. He was very impressive, although he basically works in a management/advisory role now. He sets up new breweries (ala the Rock Bottom Brewery in downtown Denver; also a new one is opening in Minnesota, I think), fixes up old ones (Boulder Brewing Company, now Rockies Brewing), and solves problems. The Head Brewer is an ex-kitchen guy, who knows food at least as well as he knows beer. He, with the Assistant Brewer, brews all of the beer sold at the brewpub. I think they brew twice a week, which are 12 hour days to do two batches. The rest of the time is maintenance, stocking, cleaning, etc. etc. The Assistant Brewer was off to Minnesota (I think) to become the Head Brewer at the new Rock Bottom and a new assistant brewer was introduced. This guy had no, absolutely no, brewing experience. I was more than a little surprised. I guess the lesson learned is: anyone can get a job in a brewery if you are willing to do a lot of hard work for, I guess, very little pay. If you stick with it, you can learn a lot and go places. Jim also comments on Robert Pulliams questions: ><From: Robert Pulliam <Robert_Pulliam at aja.rand.org> >Subject: Various questions > ><1. For a 30 foot chiller, what might I expect the temperature of the > exiting water to be. Must I use a hot water rated hose? > >Close to water temp. I don't think this clears it up. The exiting water will start out being very close to boiling with an immersion chiller. This is because you place the immersion chiller in the pot while the boil is still active (to sanitize the chiller). The temperature will quickly drop several 10's of degrees for the first few minutes and eventually approach the temperature of the tap water. counterflow chiller will be a bit different, I think, since the exit water is only in contact with the hottest wort for the last few seconds. This one will probably cause the exit water to start out something less than boiling and remain near this temperature until all of the hot wort is siphoned. ><2. When calculating my extraction efficiency, do I use the gravity of > the wort fresh from the tun or after the boil? > >after. It doesn't matter (now watch me contradict myself!). In theory, if you use the before-boil gravity, use the before-boil volume. If you use the after-boil gravity, use the after-boil volume. The number should be the same. The real question is whether to include losses such as liquid trapped in the kettle hops, or break material left behind in the boiler. Since everyone is most concerned with the efficiency of the mash/lautering process, I propose that the before-boil numbers be used to ignore the later losses. An overall efficiency could be calculated which would indicate where your losses are occurring, but I suggest this is only important to commercial operations. And remember: In practice, the difference between theory and practice is greater than it is in theory. ><3. Is there an advantage to using a thick mash compared to using an > extremely thin one that would give me say 7-8 gallons on first > runnings without having to add additional sparge water? > >Thin is Ok up to about 2 litres/lb of grain. This is the short answer. I've read about this a bit and, from memory (this is probably a bad idea), I recall that thick mashes favor one enzyme, while thin mashes favor the other (good, I didn't try to name which was which!). In practice, if you have a mash tun without a heat source (or even if you do!) you can have both. Start out with a thick mash (maybe 1qt/lb). When the temperature drops below your desired range, add hot water to bring it up to temp, which of course thins the mash. You can do this several times. At the end, you can add lots of hot sparge water to bring the temp up to mashout range. Then, you can drain the entire contents of the tun without adding sparge water. This method, and variations on it work for me, a professed lazy brewer, but my efficiency is only around 23-26 points per pound of grain. This of course doesn't bother me in the least since I have more time to play with kids and wife while brewing. About Zima: you guys are all up in arms about nothing. It is not beer, they don't sell it as beer. They sell it as a new alchoholic beverage. It tastes sweet, with some citrus overtones. It does not taste like beer, not even like Coors Light. It is selling like crazy, too. Don't worry about it; it keeps the barley farmers in business, which is good. Glad to be back. Hope you all are glad to have me, or at least aren't unsubscribing at too fast a rate! Cheers, Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1993 13:20:20 -0500 (CDT) From: BadAssAstronomer <STOREY at fender.msfc.nasa.gov> Subject: St Louis Pubs/Bars Hi everyone I have plans to be in St. Louis in a couple of weeks. I have plans to drink beer while I'm there, and it won't be Bud. If there are any brewpubs or bars that I should look up, please e-mail me at storey at fender.msfc.nasa.gov Boy! This is a great service. Not too many forums in which you can ask it's members which bars to hit! thanks scott Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 11:31:15 PDT From: nexgen!bart at olivea.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Bart Thielges) Subject: large SS brew put available This weekend at a flea market I found a very large stainless steel brew pot. It is about 28 inches diameter and 20 inches deep. It has two handles and a faucet in the side about 1/2 inch from the bottom. It is used and rather dinged up, but usable. The guy who is selling it said he used it to cook large batches of soup. "You can put the whole pig in !" he exclaimed. He was asking $40 for it. If you live in the San Jose, CA, USA area and are interested I can get his phone # to you. You would have to see it in person to be sure it is what you want. I doubt he would be willing to ship it. (Is there a way to limit broadcast of a message like this to only homebrewers in a specific geographic area ?) Bart Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 14:43:52 EDT From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: misc I wasnt too clear on a few points made yesterday. Heres an attempt to clarify things: RE: counterflow chilling, the exit temp of the chiller water can be quite hot. I have 12 feet of prechiller that exits over 100F, then feeds 50 feet of main line chilling. This water wasnt measured but is still warm. The great part of this thing is it doubles as a wort pipeline between my brewery in my backyard and my cellar. <From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: CO2 First of all, this will only work if we assume that the source tank was a siphon type, i.e., dispenses liquid CO2 and not the type one could use for beer dispensing. If you use a top venting tank, all you get is gas and will only get the 800 psi that is in the source tank. This might be enough to dispense a bunch of beer but nowhere near what you would get if filled with liquid CO2. It's like filling a tire from a compressor that is shut off. When the tire pressure equals the tank pressure, that's all you get. I should of prefaced my comments with: I use four CO2 tanks in my brewery. 3 are 20# tanks used for carbonating and dispensing. The fourth is a small tank that I use for traveling (I hate to lug a tank as big as a 5 gal keg). I can get enough gas into a small tank from a 20# to dispense several 5 gal kegs so this is a convienent way to put gas into a travel tank. It is certainly impossible to "fill the small" tank from the big one. <Just tried the dry-hopping technique described in the recent Zymurgy. Whole hops (used Hallertau in a weizen) A nit here since I am a weizen nitter: If you dry hopped it, it isnt a weizen! It may be an excellent american wheat ale though. Good brewing, Jim Busch DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1993 13:13:26 -0800 From: "John C. Post" <jpost@ llnl.gov> Subject: Wort Chiller Efficiency Jeff Benjamin sez... > 1. For a 30 foot chiller, what might I expect the temperature of the > exiting water to be. Must I use a hot water rated hose? >Well, the closer the exiting water is to 100C, the more efficiency you're >getting. I've never measured the temp of the water coming out of my >40-foot counterflow chiller, by I can empirically say that it's *hot*. I don't agree, at least about the hot exit water indicating efficiency. What is important is the total energy transfer, which happens much more efficiently with a greater delta T between the cooling water and the hot wort. Chillers are by definition more efficient at the first contact point than the last. A high flow rate of cooling water with a minimum delta T OF THE COOLING WATER between outlet and inlet can be more efficient than a lower flow rate and higher delta T, since the efficiency along the length of the chiller is more constant and representative to the initial efficiency. I could be wrong, but this always worked out on the ranch.... john post jpost@ llnl.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1993 13:22:29 PDT From: Mark_Davis.osbu_south at xerox.com Subject: Re: Lager under water (The caps are made of regular steel or maybe tin, but not stainless or aluminum, and are coated with some sort of anodizing (I guess from the color inside only.) I know they aren't SS or Al because the magnet in my capper holds onto them. In the process of capping, the cup that seats the cap may scrape off enough of the coating to expose the underlying metal. While this rust would only be on the outside, it would make you think twice about drinking the contents. I suggest capping a couple bottles of water and testing it out first.) I had the same problem except I had rust on the bottle caps of the brew that had been aged for an extended time, so someone suggested putting petrolium jelly on the caps to keep them from rusting. I have tried this and it works. All you need to do is take an old rag and put some petrolium jelly on it then rub a little on each cap after the bottling is finished, it's easy if you have the bottles in a case container. Mark Davis <Mark_Davis.osbu_south at Xerox.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1993 15:25:00 -0800 From: mfetzer%ucsd.edu at chem.UCSD.EDU (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer) Subject: Dallas beer info - Thanks! Thank you, Craig, Keith and Jay!! The info I received was right on the nose, and I'm quite sure I couldn't have found these places without your help. To the net: the folks above responded with pointers to my query 'where to drink in Dallas'. The info I got was, there aren't any brewpubs yet (just recently legalized) but there are some pubs worth going to. Number one for any Dallas visitors: The Gingerman 2718 Boll St. Dallas TX (214) 754-8771 Right behind Hard Rock Cafe off McKinney Ave. 50+ beers on tap, and a lot more than that bottled. Number two: Head to the West End. Plenty of bars, pubs, lots of outdoor nightlife, at least in July. :) Live bands playing free outdoors, at 1am on Sundays and Mondays (the two nights I was there)??? Is this normal? Wow. There's a brewery there, whose products I didn't get a chance to sample, but they're available at the Outback Pub, an Aussie/English/yuppie style pub. I received recomendations for Flip's restaurant and the London Tavern, which I also unfortunatly didn't have time to see. I sampled 3 Texas brews: Shiner bock, which is not bad but not impressive. An American bock, basically, but you justhave to have it if you're down there. :) Celis White, the finest American brewed (as opposed to American style) wheat beer I've had. It rivals it's Bavarian ancestors, and is unlike the American wheats made by e.g., Widmer. Celis Grand Cru, an interesting attempt at a Belgian style. It's too light in color and body to be a true Grand Cru, but they really have the flavor down. How do they do this? Anyone know? It tastes like a true lambic. I'd love to get a bit of that into the raspberry ale I just made. A must try! Thanks again to the folks that responded to my query. Made life so easy to zip around a town I've never been too, but knew exactly where to go in. :) :) :) Michael __ Michael Fetzer pgp 2.2 key available on request Internet: mfetzer at ucsd.edu uucp: ...!ucsd!mfetzer Bitnet: FETZERM at SDSC HEPnet/SPAN: SDSC::FETZERM or 27.1::FETZERM Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1993 15:42:23 -0800 From: mfetzer%ucsd.edu at chem.UCSD.EDU (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer) Subject: Dallas beer info - Thanks! Thank you, Craig, Keith and Jay!! The info I received was right on the nose, and I'm quite sure I couldn't have found these places without your help. To the net: the folks above responded with pointers to my query 'where to drink in Dallas'. The info I got was, there aren't any brewpubs yet (just recently legalized) but there are some pubs worth going to. Number one for any Dallas visitors: _The Gingerman _2718 Boll St. _Dallas TX _(214) 754-8771 Right behind Hard Rock Cafe off McKinney Ave. 50+ beers on tap, and a lot more than that bottled. Number two: Head to the West End. Plenty of bars, pubs, lots of outdoor nightlife, at least in July. :) Live bands playing free outdoors, at 1am on Sundays and Mondays (the two nights I was there)??? Is this normal? Wow. There's a brewery there, whose products I didn't get a chance to sample, but they're available at the Outback Pub, an Aussie/English/yuppie style pub. I received recomendations for Flip's restaurant and the London Tavern, which I also unfortunatly didn't have time to see. I sampled 3 Texas brews: Shiner bock, which is not bad but not impressive. An American bock, basically, but you justhave to have it if you're down there. :) Celis White, the finest American brewed (as opposed to American style) wheat beer I've had. It rivals it's Bavarian ancestors, and is unlike the American wheats made by e.g., Widmer. Celis Grand Cru, an interesting attempt at a Belgian style. It's too light in color and body to be a true Grand Cru, but they really have the flavor down. How do they do this? Anyone know? It tastes like a true lambic. I'd love to get a bit of that into the raspberry ale I just made. A must try! Thanks again to the folks that responded to my query. Made life so easy to zip around a town I've never been too, but knew exactly where to go in. :) :) :) Michael __ Michael Fetzer pgp 2.2 key available on request Internet: mfetzer at ucsd.edu uucp: ...!ucsd!mfetzer Bitnet: FETZERM at SDSC HEPnet/SPAN: SDSC::FETZERM or 27.1::FETZERM Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 18:13:10 EDT From: roberts735 at aol.com Subject: Brussels Trip A close friend, and business associate is going to Brussels for a week, and asks what beers to bring back for me? If you could select three or four, what would they be? Thanks Bob RobertS735 at aol.com Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1192, 07/29/93