HOMEBREW Digest #1988 Tue 19 March 1996

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Re: First wort hopping and decoction mashes (Jim Dipalma)
  Re: ftpmail (Spencer W Thomas)
  Lagering Pressurization / FWH ("Palmer.John")
  Filtering (Geza T Szenes/IPL)
  Advice on Cherry Beer (liquori)
  strange dregs ("Mark W. Wilson")
  DME/Reverse Osmosis Water (Dave Barker)
  Rissedorf Koelsch recipe ("Gabrielle Palmer")
  Filters/finings (Jim Busch)
  Oxygen Barrier Containers (Jeff Hewit)
  Guinness (Michael Coen)
  2,3 Pentanedione, La Chouffe (TMartyn)
  Advise for the lurkers. (Bucket99)
  Honey Wheat Beer. (Bucket99)
  Thanks for the response:hop downy mildew (Douhan)
  Keith's Newbie Advice (Kirk Fleming)
  Re: Advice needed for teaching a beginning homebrew class (Richard Gardner)
  Re: Predicting Final Gravity (JIM ANDERSON)
  zymurgy on cpbf (William E Steimle)
  Re: new yeast-1272 (WattsBrew)
  light ale (Chris Storey)
  wet-milling (Rob Lauriston)
  Prohibition revisited (Derek Lyons)
  Re: Breakers & Electricity & Suchlike (James M. Glenn)
  Hops types (Kathy Booth)
  yeast mutations (BOBKATPOND)
  Hangover cure (Dave Corio)
  CO2 regulators (dludwig)
  Straining (David Whitwell)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 10:38:25 EST From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma) Subject: Re: First wort hopping and decoction mashes Hi All, In HBD# 1985, Rolland Everitt writes: >Since reviving the thread on first wort hopping about a week ago >I have become thoroughly confused by Jim Dipalma's posts in which >he seems to refer to sparge and boil as though they were the same >process. What am I missing here? This is not the first person to tell me they are confused by my description of this procedure. I can't quite understand what all the confusion is about. Here's my original post on the topic: >>A few months back, George Fix posted here regarding a procedure called >>first wort hopping. I don't recall the digest# in which his post appeared, >>but the gist of it was that superior hop flavor and aroma could be achieved >>by adding a small quantity of hops to the kettle during sparging. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>About 2 months ago, I brewed an altbier with one of my brewing buddies >>(hi Scott!). I had just read Dr. Fix's post, and was interested in this >>procedure. We added 1/4 ounce of fresh German Hallertaur leaf to the kettle ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>at the beginning of the sparge, and left it in for the duration of the sparge, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>about 90 minutes (this was a 10 gallon batch). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ When I read this, it very clearly says the hops are added to the kettle (not the lauter tun) at the beginning of the sparge (not the start of the boil), and left in the kettle during sparging. I honestly don't know how to state that with any greater clarity. >Is first wort hopping nothing more than adding hops at the start >of the boil (something I have always done)? Don't we all do that? No, the hops are added at the start of the sparge, not the start of the boil, and allowed to steep in the wort for the duration of the sparge. This is done to provide hop flavor, *instead* of the traditional method of using a late addition. As far as adding hops at the start of the boil, no, we don't all do that. There are a number of advantages to boiling the wort for 15-30 minutes before adding bittering hops. I don't want to drift too far off topic, so I'll refer you to Jim Busch's excellent article on kettle reactions, which appeared in Brewing Techniques about 6 months ago. *************************************************************** Also in HBD# 1985, Bob McCowan writes: >Jim Dipalma mentions that Dave Draper says that many brewers boil for 15 >minutes or so before adding hops. This is to form the hot break, and >improves utilization, and is most effective for infusion mashes. > >In a decoction mash, a lot of the hot-break proteins are left behind in the >mash tun, Well, there is significant protein *reduction* caused by heat and mechanical agitation from boiling the decoction. The hot-break is the *coagulation* of soluble protein, I am not sure this is the same reaction. However, for purposes of this discussion, I agree that somewhat less protein would be carried into sweet wort produced with a decoction mash. >and the hops are typically added as soon as there is enough wort >to start a boil. I've heard that this is a typical procedure in commercial breweries, i.e., the kettle is fired up as soon as the bottom is covered with wort. The idea is that the sparge concludes just as the wort begins to boil, saving a great deal of time. I don't know if this is a typical homebrewer procedure, I certainly can't do it. I brew 10 gallon batches, it takes about 90 minutes to collect enough sweet wort. If I were to fire up the kettle as soon as the bottom was covered with wort, the wort would boil long before the sparge was done. > In my case first wort hopping consists of leaving the >flame off under the kettle during the sparge. Well, that would produce the same effect. >By this argument, when decoction mashing you should subtract the first-wort >hopping from the bittering hops. When infusion mashing, however, you should >not subtract the first-wort hops ( or maybe prorate them) from the >bittering hops. Hmm, an interesing point, and one I had not considered. With less protein in the sweet wort, there would be a smaller loss of utilization, and thus the IBU contribution would be greater, and perhaps should be subtracted out. For the altbier, I used only 1/4 oz of 5%AA hops, in a 10 gallon batch. Assuming 25% utilization (that number seems to work for me), I calculated 2.3 IBUs. Since it's likely I got something less than 25% utilization because of the break forming, I felt the < 2.3 IBUs was probably neglible, but since I'm an Anal Brewer(tm), I subtracted it out anyway. In a 5 gallon batch, or where more than 1/4 ounce of hops are used, or with protein-reduced wort from a decoction mash, the IBU contribution would be more significant, and perhaps should be subtracted out. OTOH, it may also depend on the style being brewed, i.e, don't subtract it out if brewing a Dusseldorf alt or an IPA, something that can carry a few extra IBUs. Clearly, the issue of whether or not to subtract out the IBU contribution from the first wort hopping is a complex one, there seem to be a lot of factors involved. Time for some more experiments... Cheers, Jim dipalma at sky.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:56:57 -0500 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: ftpmail No, I don't have any help with ftpmail. But if you've got web access, the archives are online at Spencer's Beer Page (http://realbeer.com/spencer) Follow the link to "Archive Sites". =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: 15 Mar 1996 08:00:06 U From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> Subject: Lagering Pressurization / FWH Dan Ritter wondered about any ill effects of force carbonating while finishing the lagering step in a corny keg: The are two scenarios I can picture, Dan, that may make this a poor idea. 1. There will be a not inconsiderable yeast layer on the bottom of the keg. Granted, autolysis of a refrigerated beer is not a big concern but any transport of the keg is going to stir it up, which may be annoying. Racking from a secondary means almost zero yeast sediment in the keg. 2. During lagering, there is a small amount of offgassing of sulfur compounds, and depending on your yeast strain, and the amount of time before carbonation, the pressurization may seal those in, so to speak. Both of these points are relatively minor potential problems, so I could just as well say 'Go for it and see how it works'. For my lagers, I rack from a glass secondary to a corny keg and then force carbonate. I do rock the keg a bit while initially pressurizing it, but only for a minute or two and only gently, rocking it from the top back and forth a few inches travel. (hmmm, good sentence John). I will rock it a little the next day too. Carbonation only takes a couple days. ** I First Wort Hopped a double batch of beer soon after George's first post. The batch was a Vienna recipe (12 gal) which I split into two carboys, pitching Wyeast Bohemian to one, and California Lager (ie Steam) to the other. They were fermented at different temp.s of course. In addition I removed a gallon of first runnings and boiled it vigorously with another ounce of Goldings to up the IBUs for the Steam batch, as well as adding a bit of caramelization. Anyway, First wort hopping means to put Hops in the bottom of the boiler and allowing the hops to soak as you collect the wort from the Lauter Tun, prior to beginning the boil. In other words, the Hops are soaking in warm wort during the sparge. After you have collected all of your runnings, you start the boil, and once you have achieved your boil, you add your Bittering Hops like any other brew. The difference is the warm soak of the First Wort Hops before the boil. So, on this combined batch, I put about an ounce plus of Styrian Goldings and Ultra in the Boiler as I collected my wort from my Mash/Lauter tun. The Sparge lasted about 45 minutes and the FWH soaked for that period of time in wort that was probably about 130F (exit wort was 150F, but there is a lot of Thermal Mass in the boiler.) My hop schedule was FWH/60/30 with about an ounce total at each step of Goldings, Fuggles, Mt Hood and Ultra. (I was cleaning out the Freezer). Anyway, the beers turned out very good, and true to style. The FWH was evident in the Hop Aroma which was comparable to my usual 60/30/15, but a bit more subdued. I havent had any of those beers lately (been sick) so I cant comment on the flavor profiles better. I will be sure to evaluate them at several different times over the weekend and post again on Monday. John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P johnj at primenet.com Huntington Beach, California Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/ Return to table of contents
Date: 15 Mar 96 9:02:25 From: Geza T Szenes/IPL <Geza_T_Szenes/IPL.IPL at notes.ipl.ca> Subject: Filtering It's interesting to follow the current thread on filtering. I can share my own experience; I'm a wine maker as well as brewer; therefore I have a Buon Vino minijet electric filter system, which sells for about $150 (all currency amounts in Canadian $), and a set of 3 filter pads cost around $3 for a one time use, enough to filter one batch (up to 10 gallons). Buying the filter pads in bulk can cut the costs in half, and often supply houses will also rent filters for about $8/weekend. It is possible to purchase a rental filter for about 1/2 the cost of a new one. The filter pads come in 3 degrees in fineness, unfortunately I can't recall the microns right now. The medium pad is supposed to remove 90% of the yeast, the fine pad is supposed to remove 100%. Anyways; as a kegger, I have filtered several beers using the medium pads, and I have not noticed a significant difference between the filtered & non-filtered product. None of my friends did either. I never used the fine pads, since I think that it would remove a little too much of the "character " from the beer in addition to the all the yeast. My guideline was to filter light ales, bitters, lagers, but not filter dark, black or high gravity beers, but it really depends on the time and availability of the filters. It takes about 15 minutes to filter 19 liters of liquid, and I filter directly from the secondary into my corny keg. Since I have not noticed a significant difference, I don't think that the added cost in time and filter pads are worth it. However it may make an intrinsic difference to the brewer knowing that the beer was filtered. What would be required is some scientific blind taste tests, where several beers would be served some filtered and some not to see if there is a more valid statistical evidence, as opposed to anecdotal. Currently I have 4 beers on tap and none of them have been filtered. Also if you are bottle conditioning, you should not filter as the yeast is required to complete the bottle fermentation. Of course you could filter to remove the fermentation yeast, and then introduce a different yeast for the bottle conditioning. As for Wines I believe that filtering makes a significant difference. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:34:47 -0400 (EDT) From: liquori at ACC.FAU.EDU Subject: Advice on Cherry Beer Dear Collective, I am a novice brewer interested in creating a cherry flavored beer. I am an extract/partial mash brewer and do not have the facilities for a lager , so I need to brew an ale. I am interested in brewing a beer that is more of a cherry beer, similar to Sam Adams Cherry Lambic (yes, I know it's not really a lambic)and not a Kriek lambic. I have looked through several books for recipes and may be brewing Papazian's Cherries in the Snow from NCJHB. What I would like to know is if anyone has brewed this before? Is there a better recipe out there? I am looking for a beer that is fairly sweet, is this a good choice? Most importantly, does anyone have any experience brewing with cherries (or other fruit) and hints on the process? I am an ambitious novice and am trying to discover any pitfalls before I begin. Any help would be greatly appreciated. TIA...Kevin...liquori at acc.fau.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 08:50:26 -0800 From: "Mark W. Wilson" <mwilson at ichips.intel.com> Subject: strange dregs I recently bottled a Weizen, 10 days after pitching a pre-started Wyeast 3056 (Bavarian wheat?). (OG 1.064, FG 1.019) about a 2:1 malt/wheat ratio. When washing out my carboy, I noticed some lumps (total of about 2 tablespoons worth) that were too large to go down the drain. They were dark brown and rubbery, looked and felt sort of like dense natural sponge. Beer smells and tastes ok (so far) Any idea what these blobs are? Effects of autolysis maybe? Or is this an occasional side-effect of the strain (3056 is usually a little chunky anyway, but I've never seen pieces this large and this dark in previous batches) -Mark Opinions my own. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 08:53:31 EST From: Dave Barker <dave_barker at jabil.com> Subject: DME/Reverse Osmosis Water I've brewed about four batches of ale and haven't been too impressed with my results. All the brews have had a similar taste. Not BAD, mind you, just not great. I've been told that I might expect that since I'm brewing with extract. I suspected that the cause might be the RO water. My local homebrew store tells me that there is no use in trying to treat the water because the DME should have all the attributes of the water used to make the DME. Is there any truth to that, or could I benefit from the use of gypsum and salts? TIA, Vid Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 14:17:28 EST From: "Gabrielle Palmer" <gabriellepalmer at e-mail.com> Subject: Rissedorf Koelsch recipe Hail Collective! Does anyone have any suggestions on formulating a 5 gallon extract/specialty grains recipe for Rissedorf Koelsch? All information appreciated; grains, hops, water treatment, amounts, etc. Gabrielle Palmer Die Design Standards Phone: (313)59-42107 PROFS ID: GPALMER6 Fax: (313)32-24359 internet: gabriellepalmer at e-mail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 14:35:48 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Filters/finings Bob McCowan writes about filtering: <I don't, and none of the homebrewers that I know filter their beer either. I know several very accomplished homebrewers who do filter, one as a routine procedure. <Given some time most of the yeast will drop out on their own. Some of the <brewpubs filter, but they often are serving beer within 2 weeks of brewing <it. Freshness is good, but I find that the brewpubs that rush their beer <and filter it tend to have lackluster beers. Maybe they're filtering out <too much, leaving the beer thin. Most of this is quite true. Most yeasts in most systems will eventually drop out. Some will almost never drop, like that Widmer Hefewiezen strain (actually a Dusseldorf Alt strain, but the vast majority of alts are also filtered). As for brewers pushing out beer in two weeks, this is prefectly normal and in some ways quite desirable. Most ale strains are done reducing and conditioning a few days after primary is complete, others can get smoother with a little time and cold conditioning. Id be suprised if Sierra Pale ale spends much time in a conditioning tank. As for lackluster beers from filtering, this can be a result of micro- filtration which is sterile filtration below 1 micron. I feel this is very undesirable. And John Palmer follows up with this: <So, for me and my beer, no filtering is needed. I dont see a need for finings <either. I may have a small amount of chill haze, but by and large, my beer is <clear. I remember Jim Busch commenting on his use of finings and planning on <using filtration. But Jim likes "Cask Conditioned Real Ale" which is consumed <only 2 wks or so after pitching. It really is a wholly different way of <producing and serving beer so fining and filtering are part of that <Style/Method. You see what I am saying? Just to clarify ;-) a point here. For cask ales one can use finings or not, but filtered beer is not cask ale. Since its rare that I can get to all the cask beer in a short time, it is typical for some of my cask ales to sit for weeks either in the 60F basement or in the frige. They are quite clear without finings, using American ale yeast or the super flocculant ATCC 1187. While I dont filter much beer, its a great tool to have as an option and I feel it improves some beers, assuming we are talking a 3-5 micron filtration and not sterile. A microbrewery Im an investor in, Victory Brewing, has a doppelbock online now. One of the brewers, who has a background brewing for a German style micro that never filters, prefers the unfiltered doppel. Our other brewer/brewmaster prefers the opposite, and his experience was with filtered beers primarily. Neither is right or wrong but there are definite production and storage factors involved with the choices. Beer that will be around for a extended time is best removed from the fermentation yeast to avoid the autolysis problem. Good brewing, Jim Busch Colesville, Md Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:05:59 -0500 From: jhewit at freenet.vcu.edu (Jeff Hewit) Subject: Oxygen Barrier Containers Does anyone out there know of an oxygen barrier container that is generally available? I've gathered that the plastic used in the basic Tupperware/Rubbermaid containers will not keep out oxygen, making them unsuitable for storing hops. Glass appears to be the best bet, but I'm hesitant to use glass in my freezer. The way my family tends to toss things around, it's just a matter of time before a glass container will break. I've seen clear acrylic containers, and wondor if they will be suitable for storing hops in a freezer. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Hewit Midlothian, Virginia Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 08:58:00 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Coen <COEN.MICHAEL at igate.pprd.abbott.com> Subject: Guinness Another quick question.........can anyone tell me how to contact the Guinness Brewery via the net????????? I ran into a local restaurant selling Guinness which was way too cold and not being pushed with Nitrogen.......... and not even served in a pint glass........... and the server had no knowledge of proper Guinness serving etiquette. I was under the impression that Guinness had very stricy guiselines on who could sell there products and that they had inspectore to insure such a high standard.........Thanks again............... oh, anyone interested in a sour mash technique to make a Guinness - like stout let me know if you want my suggestions..........gotta get to work.........Cheers!!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 17:11:17 -0500 From: TMartyn at aol.com Subject: 2,3 Pentanedione, La Chouffe Bob Waterfall wrote a couple of days ago: >there is a Belgian beer that has a very prominent 2,3 pentanedione character >snip >my guess is La Chouffe. Could be, but I don't think so. I was at the Brasserie d'Achouffe last week and in talking with Kris Bouwaert, the owner, understood that they use only malted barley and candi sugar (light and dark). We had a very comprehensive tour, and I didn't see any signs of honey containers. Still, Kris is a pretty shrewd marketing guy, and maybe has a few secrets. For example, I've read that La Chouffe is spiced with coriander, bog myrtle, and maybe one or two other spices, but Kris would only admit to the coriander. By the way,d'Achouffe is having a four day party August 14-17, 1997, celebrating their 15th anniversary (I think), and we're all very cordially invited! If you're going to be in Europe, consider making this part of your plans - some of the most beautiful countryside I've ever seen. On the topic of 2,3 pentanedione, I brewed an all-grain Munich Helles two years ago that reeked of honey. I pitched with Wyeast 2206, fermented at 48 degrees - all right by the book. However, I certainly underpitched and underaerated, and ended with a terminal gravity of 19, versus the 12 I was shooting for. The honey character was rather coarse and not particularly pleasant or smooth. Interestingly, there was no perceptible diacetyl, which I would have expected to be overwhelming. I also like using clover honey as an adjunct; it makes an interesting ingredient in Pilsners, and I've used it instead of candisugar in trippels. To my palate, though, it doesn't leave a perceptible honey character, but rather makes for a fairly dry and crisp beer that really shows off the hops. Question (finally) : If one wanted to brew a beer with some residual honey flavor, how would you go about it? Does anyone have any ideas about creating and controlling an appropriate 2,3 pentanedione level, such as is sometimes done with diacetyl, without creating a beer reeking of diacetyl? What fermentation conditions favor 2,3 pentanedione formation over diacetyl? Anyone? Tom Martyn TMartyn at aol.com Brattleboro, VT Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 17:55:44 -0500 From: Bucket99 at aol.com Subject: Advise for the lurkers. Hello all, Being a new brewer myself, I would like to pass along a few hints and observations for anyone that is new to brewing. 1. HBD is a GOLDMINE of information for the new brewer, it is better to learn from the collective experience of others than be in the dark on your own. 2. Local Brew supply shops are usually a good place for information also, KIRK's Brew supplies in Lincoln, NE is my only local outlet, and Kirk has helped me tremendously in improving my beer by his wisdom. (I apoligize for the shameless plug here). 3. Join a club or subscribe to Zymurgy (See above). 4. Support the hobby and pass along your knowlwedge to others. 5. Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew. (Most problems are not as bad as they seem, and most batches of beer will come out at LEAST drinkable in the end, despite the best efforts of new brewers to ruin them). Paul McFarland Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 18:05:49 -0500 From: Bucket99 at aol.com Subject: Honey Wheat Beer. Hello All, I am set to brew a Honey-Wheat beer this weekend and would appreciate your comments on the recipe. Frankly I believe it will turn out okay, but am worried it may be a little darker than I plan, what with all the fermentables involved. I am aiming for an American Wheat with a light color, and a finish that is balanced between sweet and bitter. I would appreciate comments on this recipe, E-Mail would be fine. (Bucket99 at AOL.COM) Paul McFarland Honey Wheat Ale Recipe: 3.3 Lbs Munton & Fison Wheat malt extract 3.3 Lbs Munron & Fison Light malt extract 1.0 Lbs Crystal malt 0.25 Oz Hallertauer Hops for bittering. 0.25 Oz Hallertauer hops for flavor. (NO AROMA HOPS). 2.0 lbs Clover Honey (Add to wort and boil for five minutes) 2 packets Muntons dry ale yeast (6 grams each) use a quart starter prior. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:58:26 -0800 (PST) From: Douhan <gdouhan at wsunix.wsu.edu> Subject: Thanks for the response:hop downy mildew Thanks to everybody who e-mailed me. Several people wanted to know more about growing hops. The Oregon State University extension service has a web site that gives good info on growing hops in the home garden. The address is http://www.oda.state.or.us/hop/exter104.html. Greg Douhan gdouhan at wsunix.wsu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 20:12:17 +0000 From: flemingkr at market1.com (Kirk Fleming) Subject: Keith's Newbie Advice In #1983 Keith advised brewers who have been intimidate by all-grain to 'just do it'. I just had to butt in and second that advice. All I want to say is that there is so much pleasure to be gained from doing a beer from scratch, and so little to be lost by not doing it "perfectly", there is simply NO reason not to. Well, there IS one more thing I want to say: 5 gallons is not a magic number and if you have been reluctant to do a grain-based batch due to equipment limits, then for heaven's sake do a smaller batch. Try 3 gallons! KRF Colorado Springs Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 22:47:59 -0600 From: Richard Gardner <rgardner at monarch.papillion.ne.us> Subject: Re: Advice needed for teaching a beginning homebrew class Michael Swan wrote: >But should I even use extract--since the beer will never be fermented, >shouldn't I just use colored water? And should I even boil the wort?--- How else can you effectively show them the fantastic results of a boilover? Also, if you are just using a kit without extra hops, probably just a 15 minute boil is adequate ensure sanitization, and will get across the important point to boil the wort regardless of what the little book of instructions say (I do NOT have much respect for whoever wrote those stupid little books). Other points I'd stress for beginners are: - Bottles - brown best, green OK. Anything that isn't twistoff is adequate, despite the instructions that say "returnable only" - Avoid buying "beer in a bag" or "beer machine" single step kits. - Sanitize, but don't worry too much. Beer was made for thousands of years before we knew about yeast and bacteria. - Avoid HSA, but aerate when cold when pitching yeast. - Don't clean the kitchen just before brewing - you'll disturb all the critters you don't want in the beer - they'll become airbourne, and settle into your wort. - It's acceptable to add your priming sugar as a batch add - and is much easier, rather than to each individual bottle (like the British kit instructions say). - AVOID adding large amounts of corn sugar to the recipe. Add plain malt extract instead. The big brewers do it because it is cheaper (might as well corrupt them towards drinking/making something other than megaswill). - Beer takes some time to mature. It will NOT taste all that great when you bottle it. NO, your beer is not ruined (I remember worrying too!). Good luck, and I hope you don't get too many phone calls after midnight! BTW, I've seen somewhere on the net a guide on how to teach a brew class that was good (check alpha.rollanet.org). Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 19:53:00 -0500 From: jim.anderson at execnet.com (JIM ANDERSON) Subject: Re: Predicting Final Gravity Subject: How to Predict the Terminal Gravity "Clark D. Ritchie" <ritchie at ups.edu> writes: >Does anyone know a good way to predit a recipe's terminal gravity? I >realize that there are a lot of variables involved (temperature, yeast >attenuation, ingredients, etc.), however there must be a good formula for >making a ballpark estimate. I've searched all over and can't find one. The >yeast FAQ has a lot of good stuff, but all of the equations require you to >know the FG. I forget my source, but the rule-of-thumb is 1/4 O.G. For example, with an O.G. of 1.044, a F.G. of 1.011 could be predicted (only the digits following the decimal point are used). Hope this helps. - Jim Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 01:56:32 -0800 (PST) From: William E Steimle <usteiw00 at mcl.ucsb.edu> Subject: zymurgy on cpbf I just got the fall '95 Zymurgy because they'd messed up my address over on the AOB computers. Anyway, my question has to do with the article on counter pressure bottle filling. I don't seem to understand their method of rating the cpbfs effectiveness in terms of air absorption. When they say they rate the fillers on a percentage above or below the two milliliter homebrew standard for air, are they saying that a positive percentage figure lets more air in, or that it is a better system for keeping air out? From the wording of the article, I would think it would be the former, but when I look at their tests, the expensive models (over $100) score positive percentages, and the $.20 version would appear to outperform all of them. Could someone shed a little light on this, because I find it kind of hard to believe that this is the case? Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 08:29:00 -0500 From: WattsBrew at aol.com Subject: Re: new yeast-1272 Thanks to all of you for the response to my request. I will try this new strain a few times and let the collective know what I think. WattsBrew (Bill Watt in Clarence Center, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 10:10:50 GMT From: Chris Storey <cstorey at mail.peterboro.net> Subject: light ale I'm a mash-extract brewer so far. I'm requesting a recipe for a lighter tasting ale. I can use less malt extract, but it might taste too watery. I do not want to make a Bud or Coors. You might as well drink water. Some of the people who drop in say that it sits too heavy. Maybe there is some adjunct I can add that will make it lighter, but not sacrifice taste or alcohol. My fermenter is 23 litres or 6 gallons. Thanks. E-mail is fine. Note: If you visit Ontario, try Upper Canada Lager. Pricey, but worth it. Chris in Cavan, Ont. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 96 08:12 PST From: robtrish at mindlink.bc.ca (Rob Lauriston) Subject: wet-milling Jim Booth <kbooth at isd.ingham.k12.mi.us> wrote about tempering of malt: >In the days of yore when I was a student in flour milling classes >at Kansas State U, tempering of grain before milling to toughen the bran >was a standard part of flour milling. <snip> >Would tempering of our home brewer malt reduce some of the >tannins in our home brew? Tempering is different then wet milling which >I understand some of the big boys use but it might accomplish much the >same. Has someone out there tempered malt? What does wet milling accomplish? I went on a tour of the United Canadian Malt plant in Peterborough, Ontario where they make malt extract. They do wet-milling and when you look at the mash, it looks as if the grains have not been ground at all since most of what you can see is husks that are completely intact. I was amazed. The plant manager provided the analogy of popping a grape out of its skin. The water just softened everything, I think he said. Sure would be a great way to keep down the dust when grinding! >From that it would seem that wet-milling or tempering has the potential to reduce tannins derived from malt husks, but I haven't tried it (yet). Might provide a good Silly Tricks story. The references to wet-milling I found talk about practical processing concerns such as faster runoff and an increase in extract, but nothing about the quality of the extract. Jim, is the toughening of the bran a matter of making it less brittle? Or making it relatively tougher by softening the rest of the grain? - Rob Lauriston, Vernon, B.C. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 08:47:16 -0800 From: Derek Lyons <elde at hurricane.net> Subject: Prohibition revisited >>The average number of alcoholic drinks that college students with "A" >>averages cunsume is 3.5 per week. The average number of alcoholic >>drinks that college students with "D" or "F" averages is 11 per week. >>I got this info in a nutrition class I had while at N.C. State. Sounds like propoganda to me... I maintained at 90+ average during my Navy training while consuming *far* more than 11 drinks a week. (And it was *NOT* an easy school. The equivalent of a BE in 34 weeks.) Return to table of contents
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by grove.iup.edu From: jmglenn at grove.iup.edu (James M. Glenn) Subject: Re: Breakers & Electricity & Suchlike A note on the electrics question: BREAKERS are NOT there to protect YOU - they were created to protect PROPERTY from fire! You can be toasted thoroughly, through and through, heart and brain absolutely dead, dead, dead, and the breaker will not trip. 14-ga. wire WILL handle a 20-amp load for a short period. When it heats up, though, resistance increases, thereby increasing the temp rise, thereby increasing the resistance, thereby...Get the picture? Ultimately (and fairly shortly, depending on peak load) the failure of the wire can be spectacular! To protect your BODY, use some form of "Ground Fault Circuit Interruptor." These come in various forms. The ones that are installed in your bathroom are perhaps the most familiar. There are breaker/GFCI combos that go into your distribution panel. My advice: Use the correct wiring for your installation. Use a GFCI Breaker. Have a certified electrician who KNOWS what s/he's doing either BUILD your installation or at the very least INSPECT AND TEST your jerry-rig BEFORE you energize it! If you don't want to mess up an existing (i.e., rented) structure and its components, invesigate plug-in or wire-in adaptations which incorporate GFCI breakers (contractors will install temporary panel/outlets with GFCIs at construction sites. For any at-grade use of electrical power, GFCIs are mandated by the NFPA's National Electrical Code.) We don't wanna read/hear the news of "Electrocuted Inventor Found Decomposed in Puddle of Sticky Wort, now do we??? Hope this helps some. Have you thought of propane camp stoves? I understand that combustion is complete and gives off only CO2 and water vapor. ====>James Glenn Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 17:57:22 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Booth <kbooth at isd.ingham.k12.mi.us> Subject: Hops types I'm trying to recreate the Budweiser beer of the 1940's, or earlier in the century. I've a 20% rice bill with 6 row malt, and an old fashioned lager yeast, and Budweiser said they used Saatz, Hallertau, Auscha and Backa hops. Has anybody out there know what comtempory flavor cousins to Auscha and Backa might be. I've never seen them and the recent article on hop linages in Brewers Techniques doesn't mention them. Thanks! Stupid brewer technique: I was boiling rice via the double boiler technique when I lifted the 16qt inner container with 8 qts liquid and 3# rice almost all the way out of the 20Qt outer boiler. Almost out wasn't far enuf because as I turned away I dragged the 20 Qt off the range top and it fell with just a couple of drops on the back of my legs, and a tidal wave of boiling water across the floor and under the refrigerator. You won't believe what the rebound wave swept into the next room (the carpeted dining room). I was so relieved that the boiling water (that fell without my awareness until it hit the floor), didn't douse my legs, I followed the AHA advice and celebrated until I quit shaking. Speaking of that AHA slogan, outsiders who have never had the context of a brewing disaster probably don't understand how appropiate it is. I think we ought to have a different slogan for the great uninitiated public and keep the "Relax......" as a private inhouse thing. Jim Booth, Lansing, MI Cheers Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:18:17 -0500 From: BOBKATPOND at aol.com Subject: yeast mutations From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu> >>As a rule 3 generations are probably enough for homebrewers. We can't >>possibly be as clean as a commercial setup, where they have heavy duty >>caustics and acid sanitisers and boiling water to run through all of their >>equipment, so we are risking passing an infected yeast on to another batch. >Yeast does not suddenly mutate after three generations in the brewery. The '>3 generation rule' is arbitrary and basically makes little sense. I >consider it to be a paranoid, over-kill safety measure somebody just dreamed >up. Contamination from wild yeasts or bacteria is an entirely different >problem from the selection of a mutant brewing strain, and thus should be >handled as a separate problem. It is an arbitrary rule but it does make sense. I agree that yeast does not suddenly mutate after 3 generations. But the infection factor definitly plays a role here, which is what I was alluding to. The cost of new yeast after 3 generations, is small compared to the cost of dumping your entire batch if contaminated. >>As far as mutations, it depends on the strain of yeast and how much you >>stress the yeast. High gravity beers stress the yeast and should not be >>repitched, some say dark beers also. >True, mutation rates are somewhat strain dependent, however "stress" doesn't >necessarily induce mutations and it's incorrect to assume that all mutants >will have greater fitness under a particular set of conditions and will thus >be selected. The vast majority of mutants won't dominate the population and >many are lethal, thus instantly self-destructing. While it's true that high >gravity worts stress the yeast, the main reason this yeast usually isn't >repitched is that high concentrations of alcohol weaken the yeast and one >should never start a fermentation with a weak culture. Since you are a skeptic here are some quotes for you. From "Brewing Lager Beer" Noonan, pg.74 "Because a ferment lacks nutrients needed by the culture yeast, or because the temperature or pH of the ferment does not suit the particular yeast strain, does not mean that wild yeast strains, mutations, or other microbes will not find the conditions ideal. Under normal conditions, one in a million yeast cells spontaneously mutates; under hostile conditions mutations increase dramatically." pg 146 "yeast mutations tend to adapt to a sudden temperature change more readily than culture yeast." I still believe stress does increase mutations, it will also weaken the yeast, a good point. >>Lager yeasts are more prone than ale yeasts. >>Some Weissen yeasts change rapidly and lose that clove-like flavor. >Are you sure about this (both statements, particularly the first)? Can you >provide a reference please? (I'm a skeptic, sorry.) From what I understand, >most strains of brewers' yeast are quite stable genetically. I can't at present give you a reference on this. Brewpubs do not use their lager yeasts nearly as many generations as their ale yeasts, Fix states this in Principles of Brewing Science. It is not entirely clear as to why in his text. If I can find another reference, I'll post it later. Bob Morris Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 20:02:43 -0600 From: Dave Corio <dcorio at inav.net> Subject: Hangover cure The only sure-fire hangover cure I ever found was pure oxygen. The pilot of our corporate plane saw me one morning in pretty sad shape. He put the cockpit oxygen mask on me for about a minute and within 5 minutes my head was clear and my tummy loved me again! I never got that potted often enough to look into a home supply, but I understand than many pharmacies have small tanks available. Don't worry! Have a home-brew! Dave Corio Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 1995 04:14:00 +0000 From: dludwig at mail.ameritel.net Subject: CO2 regulators >CO2 is *not* liquified when delivered in compressed gas cylinders. The >saturation pressure of of CO2 at 70 F is 853.4 psia, size K cylinders come >at about 850 psia when full, the 5 lb cylinders most homebrewers use are >filled to 500 psia. Not mine. I think you would be hard pressed to get 5 lbs of gaseous CO2 into a 5 lb CO2 tank. This is a good argument for purchasing a two gauge regulator. You can see for yourself what the supply pressure is and how it does not change when depleting the tank until the liquid has boiled off. Regarding two gauge regulators, if anything, I think from a safety perspective, it is useful to know whether you have high pressure on your regulator or not, especially when dealing with 500 - 800 psi. The cost of one gauge is $15 or less and any CO2 regulator that is sold that does not have ready provisions for a supply side pressure gage is worth passing over in my opinion. Cheers Dave Ludwig Return to table of contents
Date: 16 Mar 96 11:57:00 -0800 From: David.Whitwell at f255.n138.z1.fidonet.org (David Whitwell) Subject: Straining Oh great brewing collective... I just put my third batch in the primary yesterday, and I have a question about the one step of the whole process I'm not happy with yet. Whenever I try to strain the trub from the wort, I end up with a big mess. I'm brewing from extract, in a concentrated boil (2 gallons), using hop pellets. Here's what I've tried so far: Batch 1: While the wort was still hot, I dipped a sanitized strainer into the wort repeatedly, getting as much trub as possible. Problems: took forever, didn't remove cold-break material, messy. Batch 2: After cooling the concentrated wort in the boiling pot, I siphoned it into a strainer over the mouth of the funnel and into the carboy. Problem: Took a long time to siphon as the trub slowed everything down, strainer filled up, requiring me to pinch off the flow, dump the strainer repeatedly, messy. Batch 3: Used a "whirlpool" in the boiling pot to attempt to have the trub settle. Siphoned into another pot for cooling. Siphoned into the carboy to remove the cold-break material. Problem: trub never came out of suspension during first siphon, so there was no "trub cone" in the center of the pot, and after it was cooled, if clogged up the siphon hose again. Most of it is in the bottom of the primary now. So, given that I will continue to do concentrated boils, and that I don't have tons to invest into this silly problem, any creative solutions that have been useful for you? Thanks in advance, David - --- Blue Wave/386 v2.21 [NR] - -- |Fidonet: David Whitwell 1:138/255 |Internet: David.Whitwell at f255.n138.z1.fidonet.org | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his/her own. | | Via: hotlin.fidonet.org - Southern Oregon's FidoNet<->InterNet Gateway Return to table of contents