HOMEBREW Digest #1998 Sat 30 March 1996

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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Silicates (Pierre Jelenc)
  rotten egg odor during bottle conditioning? (Mike Uchima)
  Learned Alot About Grain.... (usbscrhc)
  Bottles (PET, twistoff) (Russell Mast)
  Optimum Temp for Yeasts (Michael K. Cinibulk)
  Brew-Pubs (Brian Dreckshage)
  Mushrooms in pilsner ??? (Steve Alexander)
  Rye in my beer ("Taber, Bruce")
  Re: Dishwasher Sanitation, High FGs (James M. Glenn)
  Amber Ale diversifies... (Hugh Graham)
  Interjection on mini kegs... (pbabcock.ford)
  New BreWater 1.05 ZIP FIle -- Installation Problems (KennyEddy)
  Lovibond Color (Brian S Kuhl)
  Copyrights. (Russell Mast)
  FWH, All-grain, variety (Neal Christensen)
  Wyeast attenuation (Algis R Korzonas)
  Water problems (Raymond Louvier)
  keeping my cool (Clay Crenshaw)
  RE: Taking the all grain plunge (Robert Servranckx)
  RE: Distillation (Art Steinmetz)
  M&F mailing address (Gregory King)
  Re: Iodophor/Thanks (Mark Kuebeler)
  Additives and Behaviour (Tom Fitzpatrick)
  NA Brewing (KennyEddy)
  Request recipe for Murphy's stout ("David Elm")
  Born again grain brewers (John Wilkinson)
  Beer in Carboy (George Hoenninger)
  100-year-old homebrew--top that! (from Carl Etnier) (Russell Mast)
  Filtering, cont (Jim Busch)
  Extraction efficiency pts/#/gall etc. (Ian Smith)
  Another PBW comment (Charles D. Ewen)
  Needed: Armchair analysis ("Frederick L. Pauly")
  Re: Iodophor/Thanks (hollen)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 10:25:20 EST From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu> Subject: Silicates in HOMEBREW Digest #1996 korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) asks: > the formula has changed and now it is > made primarily of Sodium Metasilicate. Hmmm... I don't know enough > chemistry to tell you if that, mixed with water, will make a sanitizer, > but I suspect it won't. Could some chemists chime in and verify this? Silicates are at best weak detergents (they "keep dirt in suspension" in laundry formulations); they are also strongly alkaline. Quite frankly, I don't think sodium metasilicate by itself would be of much value in either cleaning or sanitizing, certainly not any better than sodium carbonate. If there are other, non-inert, ingredients the story would be different, of course. Pierre Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 09:45:52 -0600 From: uchima at fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima) Subject: rotten egg odor during bottle conditioning? Bottled a "Steam Doppelbock" nearly two weeks ago (brewed with the Wyeast 2112 California Lager). Smelled fine at bottling time, and tasted pretty good. Just out of curiosity, I popped one open a couple of nights ago, to see how it was doing. It had a moderate amount of carbonation, and a pronounced "rotten egg" odor. Now, I know that some yeasts can produce this odor during primary fermentation; but it smelled clean at bottling time. Is it possible that the sulfury odor resulted from the *bottle* fermentation? Will it go away once the bottles are properly aged? Or do I need to rename my Steam Doppelbock to something more appropriate -- like "Stinkerator"? - -- Mike Uchima - -- uchima at fncrd8.fnal.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 11:45:59 EST From: usbscrhc at ibmmail.com Subject: Learned Alot About Grain.... Thanks to all who responded about my extract vs. grain question. Didn't mean to start a giant debate...For all other extract brewers who don't know much about all-grain, I thought I'd summarize: Most answers were identical and practical. Big plus with grain is the 'control' you get over all the variables. Big minus is the time it takes. I did, however, learn all about the process and it sounds fairly simple. Cost is also less, but equipment may cost you in the beginning. For the record, I use lots of grains to add variety to my extracts, and, as I said previously, am happy with the results. I'm sticking to extract, but may do an official 'partial mash' sometime soon. One more comment: I read about all kinds of sugars and creative additions to extracts on the digest, but haven't seen one that I thought I'd mention. For my last batch I was out of honey and used Maple Syrup (pure Vermont). I didn't overdo it and don't know if I even got the full effect, but it was a primo ale...Thanks to all for what I learned. It's a great forum. Howard - Baltimore Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 11:27:22 -0600 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Bottles (PET, twistoff) Shawn Scolack asks about PET bottles. Basically, they work great. I've never tried to re-use them more than once, so I can't comment on that. I can say, without a doubt, that they will not work well if you don't drink the beer within 3 months or so. Use these for your fast-maturing ales. I had one batch that went for over a year in a couple glass bottles and one in a PET bottle. The PET was totally roasted, oxidized to hell. The glass was fine. But, at 1 month, the same batch (in different bottles) was fine in both. Stephen Palmer asks about twist-off bottles. I've used them a couple times. They tend to break and leak more easily, and are generally a pain. If you can make them work for you, go for it. > Am I just lucky, or are failures few and far between? I had about a 10% failure rate with them. Even a 1% is highger than I like. > I figure if I have one failure > every couple of batches, thats acceptable compared to $15 a case for bottles > from my supplier... Shop around - you can find cheaper non-twist off bottles. (Or just drink beer from them.) -R Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 13:26:48 -0500 From: Michael K. Cinibulk <cinibumk at ml.wpafb.af.mil> Subject: Optimum Temp for Yeasts I have seen the FAQ on yeast posted at The Brewery, and it contains a list of Wyeast strains and some of their characteristics. But, I would like to know what the optimum temperature for fermentation is for the various strains. Anyone have this information? BTW, I tried American Ale II this weekend in a 1.056 OG American Pale Ale at 70 F (500 mL starter); now I know what is meant by explosive fermentation. Foam and yeast came spouting out of the hole in the fermentation lid once the air lock was removed! This is my first time using either of the American ale yeasts. Is fermentation always this active and rapid? I'm comparing with #1968 London ESB, the only other ale yeast I've used. Also, I never saw the answer, how _do_ you pronouce Wyeast? Mike Cinibulk Bellbrook Ohio Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 12:59:09 -0600 From: dreckash at ocdis01.tinker.af.mil (Brian Dreckshage) Subject: Brew-Pubs Las Vegas had one Brew Pub when I was there last fall. The "Holy Cow" Brew Pub/Casino did have a good selection of decent beer. You'll need to take a cab there (or drive) because the location is a bit out of the way from the strip (no big deal). Orange County has a number of good beer establishments. As mentioned "Goat Hill" has an awsome selection and just experiencing the place is worth the trip. Not far from there is a great little pub...good English beer on tap and good food. I just can't remember the name but they are normally listed in the "Celebrator". Also, Huntington Beach had a very good Brew Pub, just up from the pier. FYI, had a disappointing experience in Key West recently. Kellie's Brew Pub turned away a number of us beer hunters (after a long trip to there). It was odd, they were having a private party in the back but wouldn't serve us one stinking, single beer from their front bar. (They had plenty of employees around--what a bunch of jerks!) Happy hunting! Brian D. from the great beer wasteland of Oklahoma. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 14:22:49 -0500 From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com> Subject: Mushrooms in pilsner ??? Al Stevens writes ... >I think someone is pulling my leg. ... >He then said it couldn't be a real pilsner unless it had pilsner mushrooms in >it. He said that in the hills around Pilsen, grow some strange mushrooms, and >these are used in the beer. I went along with it, but I think he was serious. >Has anyone heard about this ?? or is this the start of another beer legend? As an active amateur mycologist (and mushroom hunter) as well as a homebrewer - I've never heard of this one. I think he's misinformed or pulling your leg. If anyone is considering trying wild mushrooms in their brew (or in a skillet) my suggestion is to get a POSITIVE identification from an EXPERIENCED MYCOLOGIST. A substantial proportion of the mushrooms you are likely to come across are poisonous. There are also quite a few species of Coprinius mushrooms that contain a chemical that will cause a problem (flushing, nausea, vomiting, possibly death) only if you drink alcohol within a few days after consuming the mushrooms! [My recollection is that the Coprinius tie-up or inactivate some of the enzymes that break down alcohol in your system.] There are several mushroom books in the bookstores that have incomplete, and in one case dangerously erroneous information regarding mushroom identification. Even with a good book, accurate identification requires practice. We all have better uses for our livers than having them destroyed by cyclopeptides from an Amanita. *** End of Public Service Announcement *** Back to brewing *** Stevea BTW there is some nice info & images on 'http://www.ijs.si/gobe/' re wild mushrooms in eastern europe (Slovenia). Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 09:13:00 EST From: "Taber, Bruce" <BRUCE.TABER at NRC.CA> Subject: Rye in my beer A few days ago I asked for suggestions on how to give my "lite" ale (all-grain) a "red" hue. The good people of the digest gave me a few suggestions and one of them intrigues me. Steve Alexander mentioned that rye will give a very red color, even a pink hue to the head. He mentions that it will impart a flavor, but I love to try different things. Can anyone give me pointers on using rye? I would like a reddish color contribution with only a limited flavor contribution. Also, if I can't find malted rye can I use unmalted and boil it for say, 30 minutes to gelatinize it? TIA, Bruce Taber Almonte, Ont. taber at irc.lan.nrc.ca Return to table of contents
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by grove.iup.edu From: jmglenn at grove.iup.edu (James M. Glenn) Subject: Re: Dishwasher Sanitation, High FGs In answer to Jon Vilhauer's original, and supplementing Steve Rosenzweig's followup on dishwashers: After about my third batch, I knew that the bottling process was getting in the way of my total enjoyment of this more-than-a-little-fascinating hobby - more specifically, WASHING the durned things. I resolved to find a better way, and the dishwasher was the answer. Convincing my significant other wasn't TOO difficult; the bottles were only the "oh, by the way" addition. Since she works out of our home, and doesn't particularly like washing dishes anyway... So we acquired a new Kenmore Ultrawash III portable. I remove the top rack and the center spraywater carrier and load two cases plus four, add a half cup of bleach to the prewash and fire that brother up, using 150-degree water. Twelve batches later, I'm totally convinced that it works BETTER than any other method. The spray definitely gets up inside the bottles. And the labels on Saranac Black & Tan bottles come right off, too. RE: previous questions on my high OG / high FG - I found that my brew thermometer was eleven degrees off, and my partial mashes were therefore much to high, resulting in (I now assume) extra-dextrinous/tannin-filled worts. They're aging into near-drinkability now, but my scotch ales and porters of that period are as heavy as heavy stouts, and the stout is danged near bulletproof. 'Spose if I save it til next Xmas, we can slice off chunks and spread it on toast! My, what a great learning process this has all been! Later beers, with a recalibrated instrument, have adequately high, predictable OGs that get down to the FG 1.010-1.015 area where they're supposed to be. I think I fixed THAT problem - on to the next! ====>James Glenn Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 13:40:19 -0700 (MST) From: Hugh Graham <hugh at lamar.ColoState.EDU> Subject: Amber Ale diversifies... Had a pleasant trip to central Washington state recently. The tourist, er, I mean ranchin', huntin' fishin' 'n minin' town of Winthrop has a pleasant brewpub with the tiniest frontage of any establishment of the kind that I have yet encountered. The porter, red, pale ale and A.N. other beer were all just fine and, as it was Hyakatuke night, I was seeing stars all night long, far from the city lights. Check it out next time you're East of the Cascades. Anyway, next day it was off to Roslyn and a swift pint in the Brick. The Roslyn Brewing company shows minimal beer name creativity and we had a choice between the Amber or the Dark. Both were drinkable to say the least. But the Amber! This had clearly been brewed with the specific intention of messing with Dave Brockington's proposed new Amber ale classification, (recent HBD, :)). It was very pale, yellow to straw colored with noticeable hop flavor. Unfortunately the brewery itself was not open (Sat and Sun afternoons only) so details are limited to my unqualified assessment and impaired memory but I found it intriguing that this beer was termed an Amber, from the color alone. Maybe they'd hooked up the wrong barrel.. . . Hugh The Outhouse Brewery currently is idle, except for Sideshow Melomel in the fermenter that follows tertiary. (Quaternary I assume). Yerpean Ale Yeast is being propagated for the weekend for a pale ale. A barleywine is being planned. And it's wheat beer brewin' time. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 16:02:44 EST From: pbabcock.ford at e-mail.com Subject: Interjection on mini kegs... Pat Babcock Internet: pbabcock.ford at e-mail.com Bronco Plant Vehicle Team - Body Construction Assembly Engineer Subject: Interjection on mini kegs... Hola, Cervesa-lings! Lleva me al puerta Negra Modelo... (Or something like that...) Ever notice the "taps" most stores sell WITH the mini kegs? A faucet and a can opener. You push the faucet in the bung, invert and puncture the keg (Yes, the Beer Kings are for us beer geeks. Most DESTROY the can in tapping it.) Being that the intent is to destroy the "big can" in emptying it, I feel no more guilt keeping them for the deposit than I would an aluminum Budweiser (Eegads! It even puts a foul taste in the mouth by TYPING it!) can. See ya! -p pbabcock at oeonline.com (No copyright desired, intended or possible. Anyone who sez I said this is a liar. And obviously drinks inferior beer. Remember: Automated flame operator at 1-800-SWIG-BUD) Copyright 1996 Rutwoessesetwoells Thingthatkeepsthesailoffofthedeck Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 17:50:10 -0500 From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: New BreWater 1.05 ZIP FIle -- Installation Problems After receiving reports of installation results varying from totally successful to complete failure, I've modified the SETUP.EXE to do as simple as installation as possible. If you had trouble installing BreWater and would like to try again, download the new (smaller!) ZIP file from the same URL: ftp://users.aol.com/kennyeddy/water/brewater.zip (~46K bytes) Unzip the file into any "temporary" directory or floppy and run SETUP.EXE Your \windows\system directory still needs VBRUN300.DLL. CMDIALOG.VBX (a Visual Basic library) is copied to your \windows\system directory, but no other files are. Should you for some reason still have trouble, you can try a "manual installation" by copying all the files into a new directory "c:\brewater" or whatever. SETUP.EXE can be discarded, and CMDIALOG.VBX should be move into \windows\system. Then manually create a program group/item. The executable is BREWATER.EXE. I apologize for any inconveniences you may have encountered. This latest ZIP file should solve those install problems. Ken Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 15:00:00 PST From: Brian S Kuhl <Brian_S_Kuhl at ccm.fm.intel.com> Subject: Lovibond Color Does anybody have a spreadsheet containing Lovibond color ratings of BOTH beer types AND Extracts of all types and various manufactures? On my first two batches, it was difficult to even get a close result between the canned stuff and bulk of the same manufacturer. IBU numbers for various beer types would also be appreciated. Mail to : Brian_S_Kuhl at ccm.fm.intel.com Thanks! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 17:29:35 -0600 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Copyrights. Al - I tried to send you e-mail in response to your letter about my copyright notice, but it bounced. Did you get my letter? Is there another address I can reach you at? -Russell Mast Copyright 1996 Algissimo Korzonas Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 16:33:52 -0700 From: nealc at selway.umt.edu (Neal Christensen) Subject: FWH, All-grain, variety I have one more question on first wort hopping (sorry). Someone earlier mentioned that a lot of folks apply heat to the wort kettle as soon as they have sparged enough to cover the bottom. I start to heat gently about a quarter full, and start to boil at three-quarter full. I add my first bitter hops at full and boil for one hour from there. The advantages are: no lag time to boil - when I sparge off, I'm boiling; the other advantage is the extra boil time at the beginning to form hot break. So, to at least maintain the first advantage, how hot is too hot for the FWH soak - should I not apply any heat? And, How much time is adequate for soaking before I get serious about heating the wort? On all-grain: For me the switch from extract to all-grain improved the product. Reasons could include: experience, better control of the process through better equipment, better control of the recipe, etc. I'm not sure of the exact reasons, but it got better. I do notice a typical flavor in a lot of extract beers - even in commercial examples. We have a BOP that also sells to the public. They only do extracts so far, but I would think they have better equipment than almost any homebrewer. Yet when compared to the two local commercial breweries, I detect a persistent flavor profile that I don't notice in either all-grain micro (one lager and one ale). I don't think it is a bad taste, just different than the all-grain beers that I am familiar with. On variety in recipes: Kelly Heflin mentioned the lack of choice in local grain selection and wandered about more variety. Russell Mast offered many good suggestions for additional ingredients that can be added to beer to affect results. I agree and recommend exploring all possibilities. However, I personally enjoy the challenge of varying the results of my brewing while limiting myself to following the old German brewing purity law (no affiliation, bla, bla :^) using only the basic four ingredients. This does not allow one to brew all styles of beer and does not fit with everyone's idea of a good time, but I like the results. Its amazing how much variation can be achieved while limiting ingredients to the basics. I think it helps me to learn to brew by limiting the factors that affect flavor, and by limiting my options for solving problems (i.e. clarity, water chemistry, enzymes, carbonation). Neal Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 10:58:59 CST From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) Subject: Wyeast attenuation In a recent post, I said that Wyeast "European Ale" (#1338) is their least attenuative yeast. Well, yes and no. In a brochure I got just yesterday, Wyeast #1968 "London ESB" is listed with the same apparent attenuation: 67-71%. Furthermore, "Belgian Lambic blend" is listed with an apparent attenuation of 65-75%. Just wanted to be accurate and compleat... Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 16:15:14 -0800 From: rlouvier at ix.netcom.com (Raymond Louvier) Subject: Water problems Hello all, I have a question I hope some of you chemistry majors can help me with. I have been tryin to brew lighter beers such as American light lager or actually I'm interested in brewing many light lagers, but I seem to not get it right. As far as I can tell my water is very high in bicarbonates but low in calcium. I've been trying to boil the water to remove the carbonates but while reading Dave Millers book the other night I read where you must have the right amount of calcium to precipitate out the carbonates. I just received a report from the city of Houston Water Department and here is the results: All are in PPM Silica 12 Sulfate 14 Phosphate <.1 Calcium 33 Chloride 28 Magnesium 8.3 Carbonate 0 Sodium 59 Bicarbonate 239 Potassium 2.1 Nitrate <.05 Total dissolved solids 395.2 Suspended solids 1.3 Total Alkalinity(CaCO3) 196 Hardness as CaCO3 116 pH 7.8 Chlorine Residual NR (?) Now I seem to have a bite to all my beers and I am wondering if I'm not getting any of the carbonates out from boiling and let sit over night. I'm really not sure about the permanent Hardness. I thought permanent hardness was carbonate and temporary hardness was bicarbonate but after experimenting on my own its obvious my chemistry lacks alot and I'm not sure which is which. I hope somebody from this great wealth of knowledge can explain this water problem in laymans terms. Also if I could be pointed in the right direction on what I need to do to my water to brew lighter beers. Thanks for all the help I've received just from reading this forum and I hope maybe I can get on the right track with this water. Private e-mail or post is fine. Again TIA. Ray Louvier rlouvier at ix.netcom.com Houston, Texas Home of the fighting Memphis Oilers! Anybody out there from Memphis I hope You enjoy cause this Buds(Adams) for you. Home H Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 00:19:44 -0500 From: ccrenshaw at mail.utexas.edu (Clay Crenshaw) Subject: keeping my cool OK, guys, (and ladies), lets see what you pull out on this one... My apartment hovers aroud 76-80 F, and I want to ferment at 65 F or so. Besides investing in a THIRD refrigerator, does anyone have any creative, or even obvious, solutions? Cheap is preferred, but not absolutely necessary. Also, has anyone had much success with a "prechiller" (additional coil immersed in ice bath) in an immersion-type chiller? Also, when using an immersion chiller, what kind of water pressure would be most efficient? Is fast-running water significantly more effective than slow-running water? Thanks for your thoughts, Clay - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Jazz is not dead...it just smells funny." -Frank Zappa - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 08:40:59 -0800 From: Robert Servranckx <Robert_Ser at ceo.sts-systems.ca> Subject: RE: Taking the all grain plunge Matt in Montreal says: >...What got me hooked was a friend of mine. He volunteered to come to >my house, bring any equipment I didn't have and show me how to do this >thing. In return, I supplied food and beer. This worked like a charm. >I couldn't believe how easy, and fun all grain was and I didn't have to >worry. I've since done this to someone else, who also became a convert. Speaking as the guy who became the convert, I obviously have to second what Matt is saying :-). Matt also volunteered to come to my place, bring his equipment and knowledge, and show me how it was done in exchange for home-made pizza and homebrew (and homebrew, and homebrew... ;-). I was amazed to see how easy and fun it actually was. I've been all-graining for over a year now, and I LOVE it. My brews are fuller, tastier and just plain better than before, and I find that I have *much* more control over the taste of the final product. The initial investment to go from extract to all-grain can be as little as 40$ for a home-made mash and lauter tun. You may of course spend more for a larger boiling kettle, a propane burner, wort-chiller, etc... It takes me about 5.5 hours for an all-grain batch (up from 3.5 hours), but this time is more fun and more relaxing than when I brewed with extract. My average cost per 5 gallon batch has gone down from about 25$ to about 12$. In my case however, the increase in the taste and quality of my brew is more important to me than the 13$ I save per batch. Go ahead and give it a try. Rob in Montreal Robert_Ser at ceo.sts-systems.ca P.S. Matt: you converted two guys, not just one... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 08:36:19 -0500 From: asteinm at pipeline.com (Art Steinmetz) Subject: RE: Distillation Sorry to come to this thread a bit late. While I like jumping on the Libertarian soapbox as much as anybody I'll simply provide some facts. You can find out quite a bit about still buidling in "The Lore of Still Building" by Howard and Gibat. Don't let the word "Lore" fool you (It's intended to fool the BATF). This basically a how-to. Noteworthy is how free it is of cautionary language like "don't try this at home or you'll die" that we've see a bit of on the HBD lately. So you need to pay attention to temperature. Okay. If I paid no attention to temp. when stroring meat I'd be asking for trouble too. Also "Making Apple Cider" ( I think that's the title) by Proulx and Nichols, published by Garden Way has a chapter on still building and distillation. This book should be widely available. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 11:56:57 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory King <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov> Subject: M&F mailing address Greetings HBD folk, All this recent talk about salt concentrations in brewing water has got me wondering what the amounts of these salts are in various malt extracts. I plan to write a letter to Munton & Fison asking about the salt concentrations in their extracts. Do any of you have Munton & Fison's mailing address handy? I will of course post any useful information I receive from M&F. If you are more interested in salt concentrations in extracts produced by another manufacturer, I'll be happy to write the same letter to them if you provide me with their mailing address. TIA, Greg King gking at arserrc.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 08:48:31 -0600 (CST) From: kuebeler at PICARD.tamu.edu (Mark Kuebeler) Subject: Re: Iodophor/Thanks Christopher M. Goll writes: > I have another idea to toss to the collective for critique: > > From recent HBD traffic, we seem to agree on approximately 12.5 ppm > iodine (1/2 oz iodophor in 5 gal) as a good sanitizing level. > However, trying to _accurately_ pour out 1/2 an ounce from a five oz > bottle (the size available at my local brew store) is a PITA, leading > me to add at least 3/4 oz to "make sure I've got it covered." While > my iodophor usage is not driving me to the poorhouse, it does seem > like a waste. I do most of my sanitizing with just 3 gallons of iodophor solution. I start with 3 gallons of water in the carboy or bottling bucket, and add 2 tsp of iodophor (this is about .33 oz., which results in a tad more than a 12.5 ppm concentration, but it's easy to measure). I let the container stand upright for 5 minutes to make sure the bottom surfaces get full contact. Then I lay the container on its side (the bottling bucket has the lid on, of course <g>), and give it a quarter turn every 5 minutes until all inner side surfaces have had full contact. To finish the carboys I set the carboy upside down in one of the gallon plastic buckets I buy extract in for another 5 minutes. This ensures the entire inner surface of the carboy is sanitized. Be careful when doing this last part; you have to cover the mouth of the carboy with one hand and hold the bottom with your other hand, so there's some risk of the carboy slipping out of your hands. Once the carboy is done, I pour half of the iodophor solution into a wallpapering tray for sanitizing racking canes and bottle fillers, and the rest into a plastic dishpan for doing hoses and little items. The empty carboy is set upside down in the bucket to drip dry and keep dust out until I'm ready to use it. I figure one 4 oz. bottle of iodophor usually gets me through 3 batches and part of a 4th. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 08:51:48 -0600 (CST) From: fitz at fasicsv.fnal.gov (Tom Fitzpatrick) Subject: Additives and Behaviour I'm sure most of you out there have stories you could tell about the effects of drinking cheap beer on one's behaviour. My wife gets particularly squirrely when she drinks beer with lots of adjuncts/additives/preservatives. Can anyone point me to any studies or reference material on how and/or why adjuncts/additives in beer affect us physically or mentally. My wife is taking a graduate course relating to alcohol use and thought it might be an interesting topic. Thanks for any help. - -- Tom Fitzpatrick Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 10:04:38 -0500 From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: NA Brewing Jim Mitchell pines: > The US offerings are dreadful - tastes boiled. Some of the European > recipies, are quite good. Can anyone help? They taste boiled because that's perhaps the most straightforward way to make NA beer -- take your finished/flat/unprimed beer, heat to ~170 for several minutes, then cool, prime, pitch a small amount of "bottling" yeast (the original colony is now dead from the heat), and bottle. >From what I have read, the NA processes of most breweries falls under the "trade secret" umbrella. Whether there is a real "process" or just simple dilution is not known to this brewer. NA homebrewing techniques I have read about include freezing beer & separating off the alcohol (questionable alcohol reduction & effect on character), heating to ~100F or so under vacuum (same as boiling but lower temperature prevents "cooked" taste; hop volatiles suffer but one can compensate by overhopping the recipe), simple diluting, brewing weak low gravity recipes, or mashing at the top of the temperature scale to minimize fermentable yield. I haven't tried any of these personally. Ken Schwartz KennyEddy at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 10:26:32 -0500 (EST) From: "David Elm" <delm at hookup.net> Subject: Request recipe for Murphy's stout Can anyone suggest an all grain recipe for Murphy's stout ? - -- David Elm delm at hookup.net (416) 961-9452 fax: (416) 961-8706 253 Wellesley St E TH#2, Toronto, Ontario, M4X 1G8, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 09:28:29 -0600 From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com> Subject: Born again grain brewers >What got me hooked was a friend of mine. He volunteered to come to my >house, bring any equipment I didn't have and show me how to do this >thing. In return, I supplied food and beer. This worked like a >charm. I couldn't believe how easy, and fun all grain was and I >didn't have to worry. I've since done this to someone else, who also >became a convert. Oh no! Evangelical grain brewers! I guess we will be o.k. unless they start getting TV programs. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 10:41:11 -0500 From: George Hoenninger <george at smarts.com> Subject: Beer in Carboy I am new to homebrewing and was looking for some friendly advice. My friends and I just tried an all-grain brew for the first time and I was windering to things: 1. how long should i let the beer stay in the carboy? 2. how long should it stay in the bottles? The beer I am brewing is a stout with a high alcohol content (recipe lists it at 9%). I am not sure if it helps so I will show the recipe: Ingredients: (5 gal.) 10 lbs. British Pale Ale Malted Barley 1 lb. Roasted Unmalted Barley 1 lb. Flaked Barley 2 lbs. Flaked Oats 1 lb. Chocolate Malted Barley 1 lb. Crystal 40L 1 lb. Black Malted Barley 2 lbs. Dark Malt Extract (For an X-tra kick) 3 oz. Centennial Hop Pellets (Boiling) 1 oz. Tettnang Hop Pellets (Finishing) #1028 Brewers Choice London Liquid Yeast OG 1.096 FG 1.024 Alcohol Content about 9.5% Any other information or helpful advice would be greatly appreciated. George Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 10:06:04 -0600 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: 100-year-old homebrew--top that! (from Carl Etnier) The 'bot has rejected the following post from Carl Etnier several times in the last few days. He asked me to try submitting it from my account. ============================================================== I just went through a stack of old unread HBDs and saw the posting from February where someone had found 10-year-old homebrew and wondered whether his beer was ruined. Better late than never--let me report on my experiences last year with 100-year-old beer. (_Everything_ is older in Europe.) Some of you will recall that I was on assignment a lot in Switzerland last year. I worked with an aristocratic German named Lustig, whose family has owned an estate in the mountains above Lucerne for centuries. He had just finished renovating the ruins of the von Spass family castle to make part of it livable again. In the cellar, he had come across six bottles of beer plus the brewing notes--forgotten homebrew! He showed them to me last fall when I was helping him move in. I could not read the old-style German script the notes were written in, but Lustig said solemnly, "Dis vas beered in eighteen hundret fife ant ninety." (He has the peculiar habit of saying "beered" when he means "brewed." In fact, "to beer" is a very versatile English verb for him. Once, when I ran out of beer and then brought home a case, he declared, delighted, "Now ees your home once more beered!") From the notes it transpired that this venerable beer was a bock, whose high alcohol content made its likelihood of surviving the century at least somewhat greater than a snowball's chance in a helles. I was amazed that the beer could survive in that cellar for 100 years, untouched by humans or other creatures. Rushing in where trolls feared to feed, I suggested we drink one of the bottles. Besides, it was the only thing to be had--we hadn't brought up any beer yet, commercial or homebrew. Lustig reminded me about the Swedish archeologist who tasted 300-year-old butter when the warship Wasa was rediscovered in Stockholm's harbor. The poor guy contracted some chicken-pox-like disease that had been eradicated for over a century. I assured him that no known pathogen survives in beer and selflessly volunteered to be the guinea pig, so we took the bottles to the renovated part of the castle ruin. What glassware is appropriate for a 100-year-old bock? I wanted something shallow and wide that would bring out the full profile of the beer, like a Chimay or Orval glass. Lustig took out instead a Bavarian Ludwig II stein. It was the anniversary of King Ludwig's death, September 31, and Lustig wanted to dedicate the bottle to his memory. The stein was one of those with the 19th century fairy tale king's face both on the side and on the translucent bottom. I uncorked a bottle and poured the dark liquid into (and onto) the monarch's mug. There was some carbonation left in the old bock; a little foam built a brownish white head. My heart beating rapidly from anticipation and nervousness, I lifted the stein to my lips and took a sip. Other than bitterness, all hops character was gone. The beer was somewhat stale, and there was just a hint of sourness where there should have been a little sweetness. Still, it was recognizable as a bock. "Lustig von Spass," I declared with satisfaction, "your ruin is definitely beered." Prost! - --Carl Carl.Etnier at abc.se A Kinetic Yankee in King Harald's Port Oslo, Norway P.S. I got Lustig to transcribe the brewing notes from old German script to modern letters, and I have a copy in one of my still- packed boxes. I'll translate the recipe and post it sometime. If you want to try brewing this before the northern latitudes' summer is upon us, let me know. With enough demand, I'll root around some and see if I can find it right away. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 11:10:46 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Filtering, cont Tom writes: <How does filtering affect biological stability? <A polish filter (5 micron) definitely leaves some yeast in the finished <product, which is desirable as yeast offers some biological stability. <A finer filter (1 micron) might remove all the yeast, but leave some <bacteria behind, free to do their dirty work. Sterile filtering (.22 micron) <would presumably produce a stable product. I ask this question with the <experience of having some filtered beers turn buttery and/or sour after <sitting in the keg for extended periods (> 2 months). I know, the solution <is to drink up! In an ideal world, everything is sanitized to the point where biological stability is not a problem. Maybe this is more of an issue in a home setting. I think a more important consideration is avoid oxidation of the beer as much as possible. Also, by storeing the filter in a weak sanitizer it should be biologically stable. "Although filtration can do an adequate job of removing much or the perm- anent haze, it can remove little of the chill haze." <I assume you're talking about 3-5 micron levels here? I don't get any <chill haze when filtering to .5 microns. Sorry, yes submicron filtration can clear up chill haze and this is the main reason .5 mics are routinely sold. Should of added rough, or polish or something to that line. <What do you use for sanitizing? Ive used the old B-brite, dilute iodophor and the Filter Store suggests chlorine based sanitizers. <I'm reluctant to use iodophor for fear of staining my nice, bright white cartridge. It shouldnt matter. Taste is what counts. < I have a set of "secondary" kegs with about 1/2" <cut off the down tube. Even if you don't filter this idea is nice since <it leaves the sediment on the bottom. Only a half-pint or so is lost. Agreed. All of my kegs have the dip tube cut. Most of my beers do clear in time and some cold conditioning. Brew on! Jim Busch http://wanda.pond.com/~clrleaf/victory/Victory.html Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 09:33:21 -0700 (MST) From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com> Subject: Extraction efficiency pts/#/gall etc. Dear collective, The question of extraction efficiency and the calculation of pts/#/gall has been bugging me for some time so I thought I'd ask for help ! When calculating the number of pounds used do you include the adjuncts such as crystal malt etc. ? (I mash the adjuncts with the base malt) When calculating the number of points do you use the gravity of the hot sweet liquor that was collected after sparging and if so do you have to cool it to 68 F to take a reading ? For the volume (number of galls) do you use the volume collected after sparging or the volume after boiling and hop additions etc (which is typically a couple of gallons less) ? Also a rule of thumb for end of sparging has been to stop when the sg of the runnings reaches 1.010 - is this measurement made at 68 F or at sparge temperature (140 - 160 F) ? I have been doing the pts/#/gall calcs based on the number of points of the wort after immersion cooling and dumping into the carboy. I have been using the number of gallons collected in the carboy and the number of pounds of base malt (ignoring adjuncts). Is this correct ? When is the appropriate time for doing the efficiency calculation and what is the 100% efficiency number ? Help ! Ian Smith isrs at rela.uucp.netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 12:05:53 -0500 From: cdewen at pipeline.com (Charles D. Ewen) Subject: Another PBW comment Recent HBD posts have praised the cleaning chemical PBW. Here's my experience: I acquired some old 5 gal SS kegs with dried product stains on the inside walls. An overnight soak with a 140F degree CTSP solution had little effect. The next night, I filled them with a solution of 1 Tbls PBW to 1 gal of _cold_ tap water, and left them in an unheated garage - the temperature was never over 45F degrees. The stains were gone in the morning. I like the stuff. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 12:02:20 -0500 From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m at galen.med.virginia.edu> Subject: Needed: Armchair analysis Well, I think I have a problem and would like your expert opinions. I have an Ale that leaves a dryish sensation on the roof of my mouth and it stays there a long time after swallowing the beer. This is a 10 gal. batch using 16# Klages 2row, 1# dextran, 1# 80L crystal, 16 hbu pearl 90min, 6 hbu cascade 30 min, 5 hbu cascade 15 min. The water is very soft so I added 4 tbs of gypsum to the mash water. Mashed 30 min at 108, 90 min at 158, pH stayed at 5.8 through the sparge with 180F . Question part 2. Noonan says if a hand full of grains tossed into water sinks then the grain is too old. Any comments or experience on determining if your grain is not fresh enough to use? Thanks Rick Pauly in Charlottesville,VA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 96 09:22:46 PST From: hollen at vigra.com Subject: Re: Iodophor/Thanks >>>>> "Chris" == "Christopher M Goll" <cgoll at cc-mail.pica.army.mil> writes: Chris> From recent HBD traffic, we seem to agree on approximately 12.5 Chris> ppm iodine (1/2 oz iodophor in 5 gal) as a good sanitizing Chris> level. However, trying to _accurately_ pour out 1/2 an ounce Chris> from a five oz bottle (the size available at my local brew Chris> store) is a PITA, leading me to add at least 3/4 oz to "make Chris> sure I've got it covered." While my iodophor usage is not Chris> driving me to the poorhouse, it does seem like a waste. I have two methods. The first would be to use a syringe at 3cc per gallon. The second, which may not work for most people is to use a plunger dispenser (since I use gallon bottles of iodophor, these are readily available). I put a piece of cut hose on the plunger to get it to only make a partial stroke. This arrangement is calibrated using water until one plunger stroke will dispense the right amount of iodophor. When using this method, however, I am using 25ppm because I do a final rinse. dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119 Email: hollen at vigra.com Senior Software Engineer Vigra, Inc. San Diego, California Return to table of contents

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