Homebrew Digest Monday, 22 July 1996 Number 2117
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Wild Hops and Storage ((JIM ANDERSON))
UV Light ((biohazrd))
Musings (Jack Schmidling)
Boiling wheat? (Bill Giffin)
Observations ((Lin Harper))
Message Status ("MCI Mail X.400 Service")
NOKOMAREE at aohell.com ((Clark D. Ritchie))
Plastic vs. Glass / BreWives (KennyEddy at aol.com)
Jethro's Final Word on "Stupid" (Rob Moline)
Re: Stop Sending Issues of Homebrew Digest (KenKolski at aol.com)
NOKOMAREE at aol.com (pbabcock.ford at e-mail.com)
Unmalted Wheat-Orange Peel/Odor Removal/Chimay Beer Glasses/14 oz Pints/Wheeler's Porter (Rob Moline)
Oktoberfest (HuskerRed at aol.com)
NOKOMAREE, fear, loathing & SILENCE! (Charlie Scandrett)
Hops, early production, when to pick? ((Waymon Witherspoon))
Lite Extract Brews ("John Penn")
Good pH meter ("Kieran O'Connor")
Mash temp H2O additions ("MacRae Kevin J")
NOKOMAREE nonsense ((BRIAN WURST))
Re: more dumbness! (Bill Rust)
Brew Knowledge (Jim Busch)
Re: NOKOMAREE at aol.com (Mark Montminy)
Miller beer ((George De Piro))
NOKOMAREE at aol.com (Michael Caprara)
Do I understand? (Richard)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jim.anderson at execnet.com (JIM ANDERSON)
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 96 19:26:00 -0500
Subject: Wild Hops and Storage
Thanks to all those who responded (publicly and privately) to my
questions regarding wild hops and storage of hops.
Most felt that the hops I mentioned were likely a known variety rather
than being truly "wild." Also noted was the possibility that the
presence of male plants might affect quality and usefulness. The
consensus (with which I wholeheartedly [Sorry, Miller!] concur) is that
I should just give 'em a try. Will do -- I'll probably make a foray in
early August, and I'll post my results sometime in the future.
My next question concerned freezing UNDRIED hops, prompted by a quote
from one of Charlie's books. Only two people responded that they had
actually done so, and both reported good results. However, they also
noted that they did NOT perform comparison tests between dried and
undried hops. I guess I'll take that burden upon myself. The
overwhelming majority responded to the effect that "Yes, hops should be
dried -- there must be a good reason because it's always done that way."
No offense intended, but I can't buy that line. In a perpetual search
for improving our craft (and our products), I think we ALL owe it to
ourselves to tinker and experiment to see if we can't do even better.
(I find it curious that the "Just Try It" attitude did not extend to
THIS subject!)
To my mind, one of the best features of HBD is that we can find out if
others have tried things we've got in mind, and avoid reinventing the
wheel when possible. Since no one has reported doing a comparison test,
I'll do one myself and I'll be glad to report my results, most likely in
several months. Unless, of course, those "wild hops" of mine are a
complete waste of time to begin with ..... <g>
Thanks once again to all those who responded. I hope I haven't stepped
on any toes here. Or even stubbed my own, for that matter!
- Jim
Return to table of contents
From: biohazrd at graceba.net (biohazrd)
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 10:14:50 -0500
Subject: UV Light
Daniel and Gary
The ultimate treatise on skunking of beer by UV light is available in the
latest issue of Zymurgy. This article is great, explaining all right down
to the chemistry of the phenomenon.
Living in Sunny South Alabama, I can skunk a brew between my backdoor and
the chicken house on a sunny summer day. And skunky brew goes real well
with the Fowl odors at the chicken house.
Ron and Sharon Montefusco
(Biohazard Brewery) (Daniel, I'm retired military too)
Drink To Your Health
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From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 09:41:50 -0700
Subject: Musings
Three cheers for Pierre!!!
Everytime I use gelatine, I boil the brewing water that
I add to make up my ten gallon batch and wait some random
period of time to allow the water to cool down to 170F.
At one point, I even monitored the temp with a thermometer
just to make sure I didn't "kill" the gelatine.
I did however, take the liberty of using 170 vs the
"standard" 160 to assure that anything that came off the
thermometer got Pasteurized.
...
Some mighty wierd stuff going on here but the dummy one is
getting dangerously close to my territory.
...
What I really wanted to talk about is my recent "discovery" of how much easier
it is to deal with the Digest in usenet than via email. I could actually go
away for a few weeks (but probably never will) and not have to hire someone
to clear my mail box. I can read/scan/ignore them at will and it seems the
NS reader works more efficiently reading news than mail.
It would obviously also make life much simpler for the janitor if all readers
who have access to usenet would get their digest that way.
So as my favor for the day, I hereby DEMAND that all the DUMMIES with
usenet feeds immediately cancel their subscriptions to the HBD and get
it the SMART (my) way. It really is DUMB to have it mailed.
js
p.s. Since putting up my web page, I feel like the Maytag repairman.
No more DUMB questions in my mailbox :)
- --
Visit our WEB pages: http://dezines.com/ at your.service/jsp/
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From: Bill Giffin <billg at maine.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 12:51:14 -0500
Subject: Boiling wheat?
Good morning,
>> Marty Tippin says:
Crush unmalted wheat separately from other grains. Add water to cover and
boil 30 minutes, adding more water as necessary (the grains soak up a lot!).
Stir often and watch for scorching.
<<
Unmalted wheat will gelatinize at about 150 F. There is no reason to
boil the wheat. Why bother with unmalted wheat in these beers? I
think that a better and simpler result could be had by using all wheat
malt to replace the unmalted wheat. But if you must use unmalted
wheat; a simple way of coming by it is to just use flour from your
pantry. Just be careful when you dough the flour in so you don't ball the
flour.
Jehro didn't have to apologize.
Bill
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From: lin2 at ix.netcom.com (Lin Harper)
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 11:19:07 -0700
Subject: Observations
To Fellow Subscribers:
I subscribed to HBD last week. I am very new to homebrewing and
enjoyed MOST of what I've read and if I start to read something
offensive I generally scroll on down to where I can read something that
is not offensive. I take exception to the use of words like stupid and
dumb and such. The folks in the altercation have the right to call
each other what they want, but I don't have to like it or read it.
I see from the apologies in Sunday's edition that there are some
honorable people that contribute to this forum.
So, anybody got a recipe for Breckenridge India Pale Ale yet?
Lin
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Date: Sun, 21 Jul 96 13:42 EST
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From: ritchie at wnstar.com (Clark D. Ritchie)
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 12:00:51 -0700
Subject: NOKOMAREE at aohell.com
All,
A few of my comments in reference to the recent flame:
Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>:
"I vote that Shawn unsubscribes NOKOMAREE at aol.com."
Here, here.
Jay Williams <jayw7 at airmail.net>:
"This gentleman hopefully has his flame shields up. He is most likely a
really short guy with an smallish, dysfunctional penis, and has a smallish,
dysfunctional brain to match."
Please Jay, there is no need to stoop to NOKOMAREE's level. (BTW, apology
accepted. Too bad the digest doesn't have the cancel feature anymore, eh?)
Jay Williams <jayw7 at airmail.net>:
"While the question may silly may silly to some, the beginning brewer would not
ask them if he knew the answer."
Many-a-wise teacher has told me that "the only stupid question is the one
you don't ask".
Does anyone else think that NOKOMAREE at aol.com may in fact be John Carey
(careyj at clan.TartanNET.ns.ca) ala HBD #1969's "It's not beer" thread? ...CDR
________________________________________________________________________
Clark D. Ritchie, ritchie at wnstar.com http://www.wnstar.com/ritchie/
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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 15:15:05 -0400
Subject: Plastic vs. Glass / BreWives
The ShyGuy boldly asks:
<<
I figure the glass is better for the first, since the wort is still pretty
warm, and plastic is ok for the second. any opinions?
>>
IMHO you have it backwards. Plastic is oxygen-permeable to an extent. Since
primary ferments are usually up within a week or so, your chance for
oxidation is limited; plus the active yeast can help reduce the free oxygen
that does get in. A secondary will normally last longer, and with little in
the way of active yeast, oxidation becomes a concern.
******
Ron Montefusco's wife is a brewer's fantasy (and I mean that in a nice way):
<<
she's happy and I've got a great
all-grain setup including Malt Mill, Brewpot, 135,000 BTU Burner, Carboys
etc.
>>
My wife simply resorted to brewing her own beer with MY setup!!!?!?!? I,
sucker.
******
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy
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From: Rob Moline <brewer at kansas.net>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 15:50:17 -0500
Subject: Jethro's Final Word on "Stupid"
At 04:47 PM 7/20/96 -0400, you wrote:
>HEY ROB!
>COOL!
>I love your threat!
>Go ahead...................
>END IT!
>Then what??????? Got a better forum for your brewery?
>P.S. WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE!
>Why can't you come up with something else other than a swear word?
>Perhaps you're too d^^^b.
>I challenge you to write something sensible.
I accept your challenge...I am truly sorry for losing my cool and
stooping to the level of using vulgarities on The HBD...this is
unforgiveable, and my embarrassment and humiliation are indeed great....
As for the notion that I could have any impact, by what you perceive
to be the threat to cease my participation in the digest, is of course
laughable and ridiculous. I have re-discovered the power that word's can
have, and all the more smartly by the great discomfort I have felt for the
last few days, as a result of my posting. To use your words, sir, I was stupid.
That being said, never let my original emotion be mis-understood. I
deplore the concept expressed by you in your denunciation of those of us who
are not as blessed by God with your natural abilities to master the art and
science of brewing. Yes, I agree that the "Keep it Simple Stupid" approach
to brewing has merit. But I most vehemently am intolerant of those who
publically chastise others for asking questions to enhance their
understanding. The character "Jethro Gump" was created as a result of what
I felt to be similar decrying of what I felt were simple approaches to my
profession. While, of course, there is the need for the scientists to push
the envelope of our technical understanding, I feel that what has worked
best for me has been a simplistic approach, such as you espouse.
As for getting a better forum for my brewery, I doubt that if this
had ever been my intent, I have any possibility of success. I don't think
that there are any readers of The HBD who are in such a geographical
location to have access to the Little Apple. In terms of commercial
advertising, I have indeed, missed my target audience, and wasted my time,
should this have been my goal.
No, sir, I am a small brewer, who learned more of my art from the HBD than
from any other source and am fiercely proud of this forum and what it has
done for me. Why, then, wouldn't I feel inclined to returning the favor, and
reporting on those practices I employ in brewing? Why wouldn't I feel
inclined to share my passion for the subject with others? Why wouldn't I
feel inclined to encourage those who ask for my advice on their own pursuit
of brewing as a profession? Why would I bother to get so upset at comments
such as yours? Perhaps, I am, just too dumb.
To conclude, sir, I re-state my shame at my personal behaviour. I am
deeply embarrassed and am ready to acknowledge as quite correct, any
denunciations of my actions. I deserve them. But never let my outrage at
your efforts be mistaken for any thing other than that, outrage.
I have met the enemy, and he is me...
Most humbly,
Jethro Gump
Cheers!
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
"The more I know about beer, the more I realize I need to know more about
beer!"
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From: KenKolski at aol.com
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 19:02:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Stop Sending Issues of Homebrew Digest
Thanks for all the info. I have a pretty good catalogue of stuff, but I'm
getting behind in my reading.
Thanks again!
Return to table of contents
From: pbabcock.ford at e-mail.com
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 19:05:56 EDT
Subject: NOKOMAREE at aol.com
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your Luger...
I believe America Online charges only by time. However, time is exactly what
it takes to download a boat load of notes...
However, I think that that is just what our new friend wants. I vote for the
page-down key. Anyone second?
See ya!
Pat Babcock pbabcock at oeonline.com
http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
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From: Rob Moline <brewer at kansas.net>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 19:10:33 -0500
Subject: Unmalted Wheat-Orange Peel/Odor Removal/Chimay Beer Glasses/14 oz Pints/Wheeler's Porter
"The Jethro Gump Report"
Biohazrd at graceba.net asks about Wit ingredients-
South Bay Homebrew Supply (310)-517-1841 has Curacao Bitter orange
peel, Sweet Orange Peel, and Coriander, as well as Belgian Candi Sugar, in
light amber and dark. I have never bought from them,but intend to when I get
around to doing a Wit. As for un-malted wheat, I have no ideas, but believe
that Briess may offer a flaked wheat. I am planning on using DWC wheat. I
note that Marty Tippin has a source. How about it Marty?
M.Bryson2 at genie.com speaks on odor removal-
I often get such pickle buckets from the restaurant side, and have
used them for general purposes, such as carrying caustic soda to various
vessels. It does take quite a while for the smell to go, even with the use
of caustic at 160 F, but your advice on sunlight is well founded....it works
for me. A couple of days in the front takes the smell down to barely
perceptible levels.
Chimay Beer Glasses-
One of my customers was lucky enough to travel to Belgium for the
holidays and visited Chimay. He was curious about some black opaque Chimay
beer glasses he saw there and wrote to the brewer. He received the following:
Dear Mr. Hamscher,
Thank you for your recent letter. I'm glad that you enjoyed your
visit and I hope you will keep a good souvenir of what I feel is quite an
exceptional small brewery. In answer to your question concerning the
conspicuous black glasses in the tasting room, in fact these are used in
analytical "blind" taste tests. The idea is that the tsater is not
influenced by the physical aspect of the beer and only by the flavour
characteristics. We use them often when we make a small modification or to
try a new raw material in the production process. The taster is presented
with 3 glasses, two of which are the same and the third which is different
in some way (of course, he or she doesn't know in what order they are
presented). The taster then has to determine which of the three glasses is
different. According to the number of correct answers given by the taste
panel, I can determine if the change in flavour (if any) is significant or not.
............................
Yours sincerely, Paul Arnott
14 Oz Pint Glasses-
I just received word from attorneys for the Kansas ABC, and to date
they have never had a case involving under sized pints, as is also the case
for the Dept of Consumer Affairs, who state they would most energetically
pursue any such allegations. Either Kansan publicans are too honest, or we
Kansan's are too dumb to know the difference.. ;-)
Graham Wheelers Porter-
The publisher of "Homebrew Today" also mentioned to me that Mr.
Wheeler has a recent addition to the bookshelves out...."Brew Classic
European Beers,"...I'm told the Daniel Bradford of "All About Beer" magazine
is the US distributorfor thsoe who wish to read more from him. No
affiliation, just sell AAB at the pub.
Chairs!
Jethro
Cheers!
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
"The more I know about beer, the more I realize I need to know more about
beer!"
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From: HuskerRed at aol.com
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 23:45:07 -0400
Subject: Oktoberfest
Hello Friends-
The one of the Brew Clubs that I belong to, Kansas City Bier Meisters,
is putting on an Oktoberfest (what a novel idea). Paul, the
coordinator, wants most of the beers to be traditionally and authentic
(and a few other beers to round out the selection). The problem is
that we don't quite know what all is traditionally. Of course there
is the Vienna / Oktoberfest / Marzen category but we are wondering
what other styles are traditionally served. I would guess that wheat
beer would be served but what about something like a helles bock? Does
the celebration has changed along with the times? I'd think they would serve
a little of everything.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give.
Cheers,
Jason Henning
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing
ps Anyone know what's in Milo-Marzen#2?!? Congrads George, how bout a copy
of your recipe?
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From: Charlie Scandrett <merino at buggs.cynergy.com.au>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:13:00 +1000 (EST)
Subject: NOKOMAREE, fear, loathing & SILENCE!
Some have suggested unsubscribing Noko, others a flame hail. I suggest neither.
I have studied fear and it's expression, agression, for some time for a book
I co-authored. No matter how much I understand the processes, I still have
"hot buttons" people can press, Noko annoyed me.
This behaviour is sometimes called "battered child syndrome", where a victim
will provoke an aggressive response rather than suffer the fearful pain of
being ignored. Logic, disapproval, rejection mean nothing to them, isolation
is the greatest fear for such people.
I don't care what Noko is afraid of,
I don't need to analyse him/her,
JUST IGNORE HIM,
He needs your response or he will find it somewhere else,
Remember this, every response invites him back,
Collective self-discipline, just do it!
Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)
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From: mwithers at atc.boeing.com (Waymon Witherspoon)
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 04:43:18 -0700
Subject: Hops, early production, when to pick?
To all of those here on the East Coast who grow their own hops...
I have a delema... My hop vines are producting cones early this year.
Infact, I am debating on whether to pick them or not. Has the cooler
damp weather caused the hops to cone early?
Also, how does one tell that it is ready to pick? I have cut two open
and found that lapulin glands are small but pale yellow. I have also
done the crush test (the hop stays flat). How does one tell beyond these
two tests for ripeness?
My total production will be in the volume of 2 - 1 gallon baggies (heavy
hop production and size - some cones are 2-3" long).
Thanks
Mark Witherspoon
witherspoonm at pgate.he.boeing.com
mwithers at atc.boeing.com
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From: "John Penn" <john_penn at spacemail.jhuapl.edu>
Date: 22 Jul 1996 08:25:51 -0400
Subject: Lite Extract Brews
Subject: Time:7:59 AM
OFFICE MEMO Lite Extract Brews Date:7/22/96
As for brewing lighter beers for the wife from extracts, its a matter of
adding less malt, hops etc. to get the style you'd like. Just look for kits
or recipes for the style you'd like. I've only been brewing less than a year
and likewise I like a variety of styles while my wife prefers lighter styles.
I recently tried the Cream Ale recipe from the Cat's Meow with 4#of malt
syrup and 1# of rice syrup (a slight variation) and with the lightly hopped
beer it was a nice lighter summer ale which we both like. Papazian's Palace
bitter was another good one we both liked but I'd recommend doubling the hops
to about 12HBU. The first time I made it I used Hopped malt extract,
skipping the boiling hops part, and found out later on a web page giving the
bitterness levels of Hopped extracts that I used about twice as much hops as
the recipe called for. We both preferred the extra hops.
Cat's Meow: I also have noticed the variety of quality in the
descriptions of recipes on the Cat's Meow but have tried a few with good
success. I prefer the fuller descriptions of the beers, recipes,
instructions etc. in a book like Papazians. But, if you look at the
ingredients, descriptions, etc. on the Cat's Meow and avoid ones that say
"mistake #1", or something similar you can probably find some good recipes.
"Alex's Scotch Ale" (Scottish) has a short description which I tend to avoid
but the ingredients looked good so I tried it and liked it. Thanks
Alejandro. Whoever put the Cat's Meow together--Good job. Obviously, view
the recipes with discretion and extract brewer or all grainer you can brew
just about any style of beer you'd like. While partial grain/all grain
sounds interesting I will be an extract brewer for quite some time. With
small kids, its hard to find more than a couple of hours straight to brew.
So thank goodness for the quality of extracts, books, recipes, and digests
like this.
John Penn
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From: "Kieran O'Connor" <koconnor at syr.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 08:30:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Good pH meter
Hi All:
I've had very good luck with a pH meter by a manufacturer called Newport.
It cost me 55$ US, and I've used it for 3 years. The electrode is the
original one.
The nice thing about this meter is that it reads temperature, and also
*adjusts* for temperature. That is key: pH is dependent on the
temperature of the sample. Any pH test done above 70 F (I believe 70 is
the right temp) has to be compensated for, just like a gravity reading
needs to be adjusted if the sample is above 60 F.
I highly recommend this meter. Give hte company a call for a spec sheet:
1 800 newport
Kieran
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kieran O'Connor
koconnor at syr.edu
Syracuse, N.Y. USA
In vino veritas; in cervesio felicitas.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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From: "MacRae Kevin J" <kmacrae at UF2269P01.PeachtreeCityGA.NCR.COM>
Date: Mon Jul 22 08:35 EDT 1996
Subject: Mash temp H2O additions
Hey now,
I'm fairly new to all grain brewing and would like some guidance.
I mash in a 10gal Gott cooler, but many recipes say add heat to move between
temperatures.
My questions are:
1. Is it ok to add additional boiling water to reach the desired
temperature, or would this make the mash too thin?
2. Is there an easy formula to calculate the amount of boiling water to move
from current temperature to desired temp?
Thanks,
Kevin MacRae
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From: brian.wurst at aquila.com (BRIAN WURST)
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 96 08:01:00 -0600
Subject: NOKOMAREE nonsense
I cannot believe the whining about NOKO's posts...you folks must have
some damn thin skin! Are NOKO's posts more annoying than the (nearly)
endless thread about mash temps from Al and Dave? I think not!
There's a button installed on every computer for such posts...the
PageDown. Use *it* rather than posting about how offended your
sensibilities are.
Brian Wurst (brian.wurst at aquila.com)
"Nature has formed you, desire has trained you, fortune has preserved
you for this insanity." -Cicero
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From: Bill Rust <wrust at csc.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:18:33 -0400
Subject: Re: more dumbness!
Morning Brewmeisters:
NOKOMAREE at aol.com: wrote:
>What's wrong out there?
>Is everybody dumb?
> Doesn't anybody use common sense? (Which doesn't seem to be so common
>now-a-days?)
>Here's another example........... the level of ber in a bottle should be the
>same as a commercial beer. Perhaps 3/4 inch from the top????
>Period!
>Don't analyze it to death!
>Why would you?
>It is purely dumb!
>Just do it!
Just a couple of points...
1) If no one analysed anything, nothing would ever get better, progress
would cease. We would all still be wearing skins and carrying clubs. Sure,
it's possible to over-analyse, but there are no absolutes.
2) What, you heckle from the dark and don't give your name. Coward! Try
putting you name to your posts, and it might make you think for more than 2
seconds before responding. Lighten up, for crying out loud!
Skol.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Rust, Master Brewer | If you don't have anything nice to
Jack Pine Savage Brewery | say, don't say anything at all.
Established 1985 (NACE) | - YOUR MOM
-------------------------------------------------------------
- ------------------------------
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From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:50:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Brew Knowledge
Dear NOKOMAREE,
It is obvious that you have enormous knowledge of brewing issues and
science. Im sorry that the recent submissions to HBD have not challenged
your intellect to its true power.
In the interest of raising the level of discussion on the HBD, I was
wondering if you could help me to understand more about the process
of brewing.
Could you explain to me the process of Strecker Degradation as it
relates to melanoidin formation, with particular emphasis on its
influence to malt flavoring compounds, its presence in Munich malts
and the importance of the Amadori compound in this reaction?
Please respond directly to the HBD as we need to raise the S/N ratio.
It seems to have shifted towards the noise side of late.
Thanks, I look forward to your knowledge,
Jim Busch
There should be a law against getting up before 6 AM. Bob Dole.
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From: Mark Montminy <markm at dma.isg.mot.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:50:57 -0400
Subject: Re: NOKOMAREE at aol.com
On Sat, 20 Jul 1996 15:24:14 EDT, Domenick Venezia writes:
>I vote that Shawn unsubscribes NOKOMAREE at aol.com. Anyone else agree? The
I thought of that, but in past experience with trolls, it'll just come back
under another name.
>Perhaps we should all let NOKOMAREE know what we think of his attitude.
Which is exactly what gets his rocks off. Not that they'd give a hoot, but
you'd get more mileage out of informing postmaster at aol.com.
If he can't ruffle our feathers, he'll go find another group to pick on. If I
read his posts, I shake my head in disbeliefe that people actually get a kick
out of doing this, delete it, and move on to a worthy post.
- --
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Motorola ISG (508)261-5684 Email: markm at dma.isg.mot.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four. Unless
there are three other people."
-- Orson Welles
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From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:52:03 -0700
Subject: Miller beer
This is in response to a post on a recent HBD.
<On pedestal>
There is good reason to write Miller's brewmaster (David Ryder
miller at execpc.com). It is not that we should insult their product, but
rather criticize their marketing. They do the public a disservice by
taking advantage of the average person's lack of beer knowledge and
disseminating misinformation.
The average beer drinker in this country doesn't even know that hops
are a plant! Perhaps I'm too insulting, but what barbaric images
enter their minds when they hear, "heart of the hops!" It helps us
as brewers AND consumers to educate people's minds and palates.
Aren't you sick of paying over $7.00 for a 6-pack of beer? Aren't you
annoyed when you attend a wedding at a beautiful catering hall with
excellent food, only to be offered Heineken or Bud?
I dream of a day when most people in this country (USA) will know
enough about beer to want a diverse selection of quality ones. Only
then will prices fall, flavors improve, and selection grow.
We must strive for this, or move to Europe! I'm monolingual, and I
like it here (for the most part), so that's not a real option.
Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, but I do feel strongly about this.
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
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From: Michael Caprara <mcaprara at awwarf.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 08:15:16 -0600
Subject: NOKOMAREE at aol.com
This guy/gal has GOT to go! If the HBD is too basic for his/her skills, then
stop posting. Let beginners ask questions. I have been brewing 8 years
and am an all-grain snob. BUT, I gladly answer beginner questions.
I think NOKOMAREE is mad because their beer hasn't advanced to the
second round in years (if ever!) and they are blaming the beginners.
So, NOKOMAREE, just keep using your blue ribbon malt and cane sugar
and maybe one day you will learn what a hop is.
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From: Richard <oh2dogs9 at idt.vivid.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 10:26:30 -0400
Subject: Do I understand?
If I send you articles you'll publish them in the homebrew digest?
If that is correct, I would like to submit this one
How Do You Spot the ADDICTION?
The addiction of which I speak is beer. Sure most people like beer, but
some of us (myself included) have this addiction. Does that mean that I
and people like me are lushes? No, I don't think so. It's always
tempting to over generalize, but in this case I believe it's true.
How's does the addiction begin? Well with me it began with the
realization that there is more to beer than Budweiser and Miller. This
early exploration began with trying as many different brands as
possible. I remember buying brands such as Rolling Rock, Straubs,
Coors, Olympia, Maximus Super, etc. This should have meant variety but
it wasn't. At first this exploration only seemed to support the theory
that beer is beer and it all tastes the same, i.e., like Budweiser.
It wasn't really until my first foray into homebrewing that I began to
encounter strange and new names for beer such as porter and stout. I
discovered that beer could have a color darker than recycled Clydesdale
piss and could have a variety of tastes. Eventually the beer
renaissance hit, and we can now purchase a variety of beers other than
the mass produced American stuff. The variety barrier is much easier to
break now a days.
Things have gotten progressively worse since then. I am now fully
addicted to beer and brewing. Reprinted here by the permission of no
one as a public service are the top ten beer addiction warning signs:
10. You lay awake at night dreaming up new beer recipes (some of them
weird) such as watermelon lambic.
9. You make vacation plans around beer stops such as breweries,
brewpubs, and beer fests.
8. Your main criterion when buying a house is whether it has a basement
to set up your home brewery.
7. Your ideal vacation is beer camp.
6. You read everything you can on beer and brewing.
5. Your mother-in-law knows about no. 6 and sends you weekly clippings
from magazines, newspapers and any other printed media.
4. Your mother-in-law plans for your week-long Thanksgiving holiday
visit by planning your beer itinerary to include the newest brewpubs and
breweries since last year's visit.
3. You have three "fridges" and only one is for food.
2. You seek out flea markets and yard sales due solely to the
possibility you might find a cool beer glass or breweriana.
1. You know what the hell breweriana means.The addiction of which I
speak is beer. Sure most people like beer, but some of us (myself
included) have this addiction. Does that mean that I and people like me
are lushes? No, I don't think so. It's always tempting to over
generalize, but in this case I believe it's true.
How's does the addiction begin? Well with me it began with the
realization that there is more to beer than Budweiser and Miller. This
early exploration began with trying as many different brands as
possible. I remember buying brands such as Rolling Rock, Straubs,
Coors, Olympia, Maximus Super, etc. This should have meant variety but
it wasn't. At first this exploration only seemed to support the theory
that beer is beer and it all tastes the same, i.e., like Budweiser.
It wasn't really until my first foray into homebrewing that I began to
encounter strange and new names for beer such as porter and stout. I
discovered that beer could have a color darker than recycled Clydesdale
piss and could have a variety of tastes. Eventually the beer
renaissance hit, and we can now purchase a variety of beers other than
the mass produced American stuff. The variety barrier is much easier to
break now a days.
Things have gotten progressively worse since then. I am now fully
addicted to beer and brewing. Reprinted here by the permission of no
one as a public service are the top ten beer addiction warning signs:
10. You lay awake at night dreaming up new beer recipes (some of them
weird) such as watermelon lambic.
9. You make vacation plans around beer stops such as breweries,
brewpubs, and beer fests.
8. Your main criterion when buying a house is whether it has a basement
to set up your home brewery.
7. Your ideal vacation is beer camp.
6. You read everything you can on beer and brewing.
5. Your mother-in-law knows about no. 6 and sends you weekly clippings
from magazines, newspapers and any other printed media.
4. Your mother-in-law plans for your week-long Thanksgiving holiday
visit by planning your beer itinerary to include the newest brewpubs and
breweries since last year's visit.
3. You have three "fridges" and only one is for food.
2. You seek out flea markets and yard sales due solely to the
possibility you might find a cool beer glass or breweriana.
1. You know what the hell breweriana means.
BY: RICK FOOTE, Chicken City Ale Raisers Gainesville, GA
>From "Rebel Yell" Our newsletter
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