Homebrew Digest Tuesday, 6 August 1996 Number 2135
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
nitrous oxides in beer (Andy Walsh)
nitrous oxide (Andy Walsh)
Club Competitions at fairs (keithzim at tgn.net)
RE: Alienating GABF patrons (Robert Paolino)
Wyeast 3944 Fermentation Time (Fred Hardy)
Oaken Kegs (Captain)
Robert Waddel's ethnic slurs (Jim Overstreet)
Cocoa or Contamination? ("John Penn")
Uncl: Re: Larry Jones (TXPHIL at VMETH5.OSSD.GIS.ML.COM)
contaminated beer ("Gregory C. Furlich")
Bernz-O-Matic O2? (Marty Tippin)
RE: Dry stout for Larry ((George De Piro))
re: Subject: alternatives to keg refrigerator (Dave Broughton - PICCO)
Subject: alternatives to keg refrigerator (Dave Broughton - PICCO)
Dry stouts from kits (John Keane)
Aeration and Growing Old, a bit of Light Science (Charlie Scandrett)
Fruit Beers (EDWARD SPADONI)
Frrrreessshhhh HOPS ("Don Van Valkenburg")
sulphites are NOT sterilants/seeded hops/Wyeast Scottish/American oak (korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com)
Fruit, Temp Controller (RUSt1d?)
electronic burner ignition ("Keith Royster")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 18:44:22 +1100
Subject: nitrous oxides in beer
This just caught my eye. It may be a little late but my
HBD delivery has been a little jittery recently.
David Eddington replies to Brian Colgan on his question:
>I have tried nitrogen oxide (whippets?) cartridges for my stouts
>in the past,and boy did they turn out great. I just got them
>from my local HB store,so I wouldn't know where else to find them.
I hate to be a foreteller of doom (great game), but this deserves
some comment.
A recent Brauwelt (1/96? I do not have it at hand) had an article on
how breweries could recover pure CO2 from the fermentation. One of
the main reasons given for doing this (as opposed to CO2 cylinders)
was to ensure the purity of the gas going into the beer. THE GASES
CONSIDERED EXTREMELY UNDESIRABLE WERE OXIDES OF NITROGEN. (stopped
shouting). Nitrous oxides can react with FAN in beer to form
nitrosamines, which are regarded as being nasty as they
have been shown to be carcinogenic. The authors were concerned
even about the minute amounts that could exist in bottled CO2,
let alone considering the effects of pumping pure nitrogen dioxide
into beer.
Now I do not know how deadly nitrosamines are, or how much would
be formed by gassing with NO2, or whether this is just lawsuit
paranoia. The question is, are you willing to risk creating
carcinogens in your homebrew for the sake of other perceived benefits?
Not me, that's for sure, but I am still not concerned about using
commercial bottled CO2, especially after contacting my CO2 supplier
several weeks ago to find out if their CO2 contained oxides of nitrogen
(answer no).
- --
Andrew Walsh CHAD Research Laboratories
Phone (61 2) 212 6333 5/57 Foveaux Street
Fax (61 2) 212 1336 Surry Hills. NSW. 2010
email awalsh at crl.com.au Australia.
Return to table of contents
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 18:59:09 +1100
Subject: nitrous oxide
Whoops.
My previous post should refer to laughing gas as
nitrous oxide, N2O, not nitrogen dioxide, NO2.
The rest of the argument remains the same. How
reactive is N2O with soluble proteins in beer? Who would
risk it?
(pity we can't cancel any more)
- --
Andy.
Return to table of contents
From: keithzim at tgn.net
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 06:15:52 -0500
Subject: Club Competitions at fairs
Am looking for information from any homebrew club which has held a
homebrew competition at a county fair. Would like as much info as
possible such as what was set up at the fair, was judging done at the
fair or beforehand etc. Send all info via e-mail.
Keith Zimmerman
keithzim at tgn.net
Return to table of contents
From: Robert Paolino <rpaolino at execpc.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 06:56:10 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: RE: Alienating GABF patrons
"Robert Waddell" <V024971 at Tape.StorTek.Com> wrote:
>Please pardon my rantings, but is this a copy of a FAX that I just sent off
With the exception of a couple of items, and maybe the tone in a couple of
instances, I'd hardly call it a "ranting." You have a legitimate complaint
and one that should be aired and discussed publicly, and in a much more
constructive manner than done by the AOB.
>American Beer Festival. The rule I am referring to is "No backpacks will
>be allowed into Currigan Hall".
I wonder what they have to say about camera bags. Or do they not want people
taking photographs of people having a good time at their event? What about
women's handbags?
>Dear Mr. Waddell:
>
>We have received your letter and regret that the Great American Beer Festival
>policy with regard to backpacks is so personally upsetting for you.
>
>In an attempt to clear up your many misconceptions, let me start by
Talk about condescending! And although AOB dismisses it as being "personally
upsetting" it's really simply a practical matter of being able to manage
personal possessions while keeping both hands free to sample beer, read
literature, take notes, and whatever else one may choose to do during the
tasting. A backpack is simply a very practical solution.
>As colorful as your descriptions of militia and terrorists may be, the
I have to agree that that part of Waddell's letter was irrelevant and
distracted attention from the real issue, and pretty conveniently for the
purpose of the GABF's response.
>laws. The police department and the security agency agree that back packs
>represent a substantial threat to our ability to envorce those rules. In
_You_ are hiring _them_ to provide security. They may offer whatever advice
they choose, but it is the festival's responsibility to make the decisions and
not to abdicate them to someone else. You do what is necessary and reasonable
to enforce the rules about what can/can't be taken out. If that means
inspecting bags for contraband beer as people leave, then do it. What's the
big deal? You post the policy at the entrance so people know that they can't
take beer out and to let them know that bags may be subject to inspection upon
probable cause to suspect a "beer violation." It's not going to be a huge
bottleneck because every single patron is not going to be carrying a backpack.
>the past there have been several documented attempts by attendees to
>remove beer from Currigan Hall--even during the Members-Only Tasting. The
The fact that you have "several documented attempts" suggests to me that your
security was effective enough to catch it without needing to impose new
rules that serve only to inconvenience your patrons.
>In closing, your concerns have been noted but due to the reasons cited this
>is not an issue that we will reconsider. If you personally find this rule
Yes, let's not let facts and reason get in the way. No need for an informed
debate.
(back to Waddell)
>As this is probably a volatile issue, the AOB and all, I think that any
>further thoughts on the matter be discussed in private E-Mail. If I am
Private email doesn't sound like much of a forum for open debate.
>The Liberal view would be: If someone is breaking the law, shut down the
>whole Festival. It must be societies fault. The lawbreaker is just a
>victim. Burn some incense, get them a healing stone, council them.
>
>The Conservative view would be: If someone is breaking the law, arrest that
>person, and prosecute him/her. Proceed with serious beer tasting. FINI!
Ummmm.... I don't see how this is either relevant or accurate. (And, if
anything, wouldn't it be the "conservatives" who are more likely to impose a
whole set of "law and order" prohibitions (like a prohibition on backpacks)?
"Liberal"? Why don't you look it up? I don't use _either_ label for myself,
I'm just responding to the two (inaccurate) descriptions used in the post.)
Why do you want to alienate the people _most_ likely to support your position
by getting into petty namecalling and mischaracterisation?
- - - - - -
The GABF is/has become a big "corporate" event. It may well also be quite a
good time if you like huge crowds, but if they are going to take that kind of
attitude, why would anyone want to support it? The AHA promotes the GABF as a
big "member benefit," but the response makes clear that they separate it from
any conception of member decision-making and that "they" call the shots. The
AHA does a lot of good things, but member participation in decision-making
doesn't seem to be one of their strong points.
There are plenty of well-run "home-grown" beer festivals and tastings (indeed,
many that are run by _membership_ organisations) that do not see a need for
quite so many rules and prohibitions. Obviously, there are some externally-
imposed legal requirements that need to be observed, but a festival organiser
needs to find the most liberal, least restrictive way to promote compliance.
Think globally, drink locally (in whatever locality you may be living or
visiting), and, by extension, enjoy locally-run beer festivals! I'll be
enjoying one of them this weekend.
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino rpaolino at earth.execpc.com
Madison
Have a beer today... for your palate and for good health
Vice President, Madison Homebrewers and Tastes Guild
For information, write to us at mhtg at stdorg.wisc.edu
Return to table of contents
From: Fred Hardy <fcmbh at access.digex.net>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 08:00:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Wyeast 3944 Fermentation Time
> From: mjkid at ix.netcom.com (Mike Kidulich)
> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 04:18:45 GMT
> Subject: Wyeast 3944, or How much longer does this go on??
>
> I Brewed a Belgian Wit end of June. I pitched a 1 qt. Starter of
> Wyeast 3944 (Belgian White Ale), to well aerated wort. Got extremely
> vigorous fermentation, started in about 6 hours, but the beer has been
> in the secondary 5 weeks, and is still fermenting! I have a layer of
> foam still on the beer, and a continuous stream of bubbles coming from
> the bottom of the carboy. The temp is around 72F, and the OG has gone
> from 1.050 to 1.018. Is this slow of a fermentation normal for this
No, but neither is it unusual. I had one go 8 weeks in the secondary. I
was ready to throw it out until I tasted it. It is almost gone now, with
only a few bottles left. It was yummy. The only bad effect is less head
strength and reduced haze, which I suspect is the effect of gravity on
heavier proteins over the extended secondary period.
Other brewers I have talked to lead me to conclude that the behavior of
this yeast is inconsistent at low (1 qt. starter) pitching levels.
Culturing up to a full gallon of starter seems to produce excellent
results. Let the starter ferment out. At pitching time, pour off the
starter liquid and use some of the new wort to get the yeast cake into
suspension. Pour and enjoy a "normal" fermentation.
Brew On ............. Fred
===========================================================================
We must invent the future, else it will | Fred Hardy
happen to us and we will not like it. | Fairfax, Virginia
[Stafford Beer, "Platform for Change"] | email: fcmbh at access.digex.net
Return to table of contents
From: Captain <captain at iquest.net>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 07:29 EST
Subject: Oaken Kegs
I've receintly acquired a couple of oaken kegs from a guy who used them to
brew pale ales in. He has moved away and I can't ask him questions about
them. They have bung holes with air locks in them and a spigot on the top.
They are filled with a liquid he said would keep them in shape between
brews. I have no idea whas this liquid is.
Does anyone have any experience brewing with oak kegs they could impart? I
assume I brew an ale and use this keg for the secondary fermenter, then just
dispense it directly from that. Does this sound like a good idea?
*********************************
"Beer... it's not just for breakfast anymore."
Jim Kirk
captain at iquest.net
*********************************
Return to table of contents
From: Jim Overstreet <wa5dxp at worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:59:19 +0000
Subject: Robert Waddel's ethnic slurs
It seems Robert Waddell cannot only not spell militia correctly, he throws
in the "Red-Neck" ethnic slurs, and implies all Southern Caucasians of
Scots-Irish ancestry are alcoholics. As a Caucasian of Scots-Irish
ancestry, I deeply resent this ethnic stereotyping, and demand an apology
from this creep. Also, if this bigot can document one instance (outside of
the ethnic-controlled news-media's anti-white yellow journalism) where one
"red-neck" militia member was ever convicted of bombing anybody anywhere, it
would be news to me.
I suspect that the GABF rightly banned backpacks, probably because so many
non-rednecks were carrying off "half the store" in said packs. Doth Robert
protest too much?
Return to table of contents
From: "John Penn" <john_penn at spacemail.jhuapl.edu>
Date: 6 Aug 1996 09:07:15 -0400
Subject: Cocoa or Contamination?
Subject: Time:8:48 AM
OFFICE MEMO Cocoa or Contamination? Date:8/6/96
I have recently tried two Chocolate beer recipes, Chocolate Stout from the
Cat's Meow and an extract variation of Papazian's Chocolate Porter. Because
of the concerns over oil in baker's chocolate I used powdered
cocoa--Hershey's. I made 3 gallon batches and the Stout has about 2oz. of
cocoa and the Porter had a whopping 7oz! I used a 2 stage fermentation with
the Stout and only a single stage with the Porter so it has a lot more
sediment. There is a whitish something at the top of the Porter bottles and
I noticed this in the fermenter too but nothing similiar in the Stout. The
Porters taste pretty good after a couple of weeks and the Stouts are
excellent but I'm wondering if the whitish haze in the Porter is due to the
cocoa or is the beginning of an infection. I'm hoping the difference between
the two is just the large quantity of cocoa in the Porter and the extra
sediment due to a single stage fermentation. When I put one bottle of Porter
in the refrigerator, the whitish substance seemed to dissapate--maybe it
settled to the bottom which would probably mean the beers are OK. I'll keep
an eye on them with time but was wondering what others have experienced in
making chocolate beers. TIA.
John Penn
Return to table of contents
From: TXPHIL at VMETH5.OSSD.GIS.ML.COM
Date: 06 Aug 96 09:08:47 EDT
Subject: Uncl: Re: Larry Jones
From: Phil Tully
*** Resending note of 08/06/96 09:04
Date: 06 Aug 96 09:04:07 EDT
From: <TXPHIL AT VMCMGC>
To: HB Digest < at commpost.ml.com:homebrew-digest-request@ aob.org>
From: Phil Tully
*rom:LarryJones
*ate:Mon,5Aug199615:11:28-0600
*ubject:Stout
Larry,
I have found the use of Roasted Barley (4-8oz for a 5 gallon batch) provides
that signature bitterness of a good stout.
BTW..please add your email address to your posting it would allow for private e
mail.
Regards
Phil Tully
Tully's Brew N Barrel, Verona NJ
brewer at email.novasys.com
Regards:
Phil Tully
212.647.3208
Return to table of contents
From: "Gregory C. Furlich" <gfurlich at pen.k12.va.us>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 9:25:50 EDT
Subject: contaminated beer
Help, my beer has the funk. The funk is a sour tasting skunky
smelling phenomenon. I have now lost four or five batches to
the funk. The beer usually becomes infected during racking,
either to a secondary or a bottling bucket. When I begin the
process the beer will smell and taste fine. By the time I am
finished it has been infected.
I have sanitized with both bleach and idophur. The beer is
fermented in the dark and in glass. I rack in my garage which
is quite dark. I know the symptoms indicate sunlight, but this
doesn't seem possile. I sanitize all hoses, racking canes, etc.
I am desperate for help. I feel emotionally invested in each
batch, and it is painful to keep losing batches. Feel free to
post or private e-mail any advice.
Greg Furlich
VA Beach, VA
Return to table of contents
From: Marty Tippin <martyt at sky.net>
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 08:29:42 -0500
Subject: Bernz-O-Matic O2?
The recent discussion of using the little oxygen cylinders sold by
Bernz-O-Matic for wort aeration sounded like a good idea; I've already got
the SS airstone and thought I would just buy the 02 cylinder and attach the
valve from my existing propane torch, and attach the airstone to the valve.
No such luck - the O2 cylinders are reverse threaded to prevent potentially
boneheaded things from happening.
So I saw the propane/oxygen torch Bernz-o-matic sells that the o2 cylinder
is intended for and thought I could scavenge the oxygen regulator from it.
Until I saw the price tag ($52!). Back to the drawing board.
As a last resort, I called Bernz-o-matic (800-654-9011) to ask about buying
the oxygen regulator assembly to replace my "broken" one (wink, wink) ...
Nope. You have to send the original back for reconditioning.
So does anybody know where I can get the O2 regulator for that kind of tank?
I know Liquid Bread is using the same one and I could get it from them, but
I'll give odds there's a cheaper source somewhere (the price of any common
item, once associated with a hobby, is mysteriously doubled...)
Ideas? E-mail is fine; I'll summarize...
- -Marty
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Marty Tippin | Tippin's Law #24: Never underestimate the
martyt at sky.net | power of human stupidity.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out my 2-Tier Converted Keg Brewing System Design Plans
and other homebrew gadgets at http://www.sky.net/~martyt
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to table of contents
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 10:22:35 -0700
Subject: RE: Dry stout for Larry
Larry threatens to stop brewing if he can't duplicate a dry stout.
His E-mail address wasn't included in the post, so I'm responding
here. I don't brew from extract and only ever did 4 or 5 batches that
way, so I can't offer much advice. It is true that you will get
better results by using light extract and using ample specialty malts
to achieve the desired flavors and color.
When using extracts it's tough to know things like what the final
gravity will be or how the beer will taste without knowing the grain
bill and mash schedule of the extract maker. They, unfortunately, do
not tell you these VERY important things on the label. That's why I
mash.
The best advice I can give is to get the book entitled "Stout." It's
the latest (I think) in the series of books about specific styles. If
the answer isn't there, you'll be hard-pressed to find it!
Good luck, keep trying!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
Return to table of contents
From: Dave Broughton - PICCO <dave at picco.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 07:58:31 PDT
Subject: re: Subject: alternatives to keg refrigerator
I use a small chest freezer. It has just enough room for 3 kegs and the CO2
tank. You can use cobra head taps if you don't mind opening the freezer door
or check out old issues of the digests if you want to mount taps on the
outside.
dlb
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| David Broughton (206)927-6910 x30 |
| Puyallup Integrated Circuit Company (206)927-6673 Fax |
| 33838 Pacific Hwy S., Suite 211 dave at picco.com |
| Federal Way, WA 98003 http://www.picco.com |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Return to table of contents
From: Dave Broughton - PICCO <dave at picco.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 08:00:36 PDT
Subject: Subject: alternatives to keg refrigerator
By the way the small chest freezer is about a third of the size of a
refrigerator (it may be less objectionable to your wife, it was to mine!)
dlb
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| David Broughton (206)927-6910 x30 |
| Puyallup Integrated Circuit Company (206)927-6673 Fax |
| 33838 Pacific Hwy S., Suite 211 dave at picco.com |
| Federal Way, WA 98003 http://www.picco.com |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Return to table of contents
From: John Keane <keane at cs.rutgers.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:12:25 -0400
Subject: Dry stouts from kits
In Homebrew Digest #2134 (Tuesday, 6 August 1996), Larry Jones writes:
Larry> I have been trying for about three and half years to brew a
Larry> dry stout that resembles the flavor of Beamish, Murphey's,
Larry> or Guinness. [...] In all my attempts to homebrew
Larry> such a stout I have usually been plagued by an aftertaste
Larry> that is too malty or vanilla like.
I had this problem with my "dry" stouts for a while, and though I have
a solution, I'm not sure you're going to find it helpful. What
finally really worked for me was going to all-grain brewing. If
you're not ready to try that, here are some things that might help:
1) Under-attenuation is pretty common in home brewing, and can leave a
sweet residual flavor. This issue has been discussed many times
before in this forum, but the three biggest factors are probably the
fermentability of the extract you are using, the amount of yeast you
pitch, and the degree of aeration of your chilled wort. You say that
you have tried different extracts, so try stepping up your starter
size and doing more aeration.
2) I have noticed that many, many "dry" stout recipes call for OGs of
over 1.040. In my opinion, if your OG is higher than that, you will
not get the dry finish you want. Try shooting for an OG of about
1.038.
I am puzzled by your assertion that your beer tastes appropriately dry
before bottle conditioning, but not after. This suggests to me that
perhaps you are not bittering sufficiently: the level of bitterness
does often decline during conditioning in my experience. Dry Irish
stouts are usually pretty quite bitter; you should be bittering at
around 40-50 IBU. Insufficient bittering might leave the beer with a
greater perceived sweetness than desired.
I was never satisfied with the quality of my stout until I started
all-grain brewing. What I was missing was a roasty graininess and,
yes, a truly dry finish. (Having achieved these things, I now find
myself moving back to brewing slightly sweeter, maltier stouts. Go
figure.) You might try partial-mashing as a step in that direction.
I would be happy to send you the all-grain recipe I use, and perhaps
you can modify it for extract or partial mash. Your post does not
include an email address, so if you want it, send me a note.
Good luck!
_John_
Return to table of contents
From: Charlie Scandrett <merino at buggs.cynergy.com.au>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 02:34:05 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Aeration and Growing Old, a bit of Light Science
Jack Schmidling posted,
>"Heavy Science"
>I forgot to hold out a gallon of wort from the last batch so rather
>than brew up a starter batch, I thought I would just take a fling at
>using the sludge from the previous batch. I never do this and always
>start with a new slant for each batch. I attribute the constistancy
>of my beer to always using new yeast.
>Well, I could not believe my eye when, two hours after pitching there
>was an inch of foam on the top and the beer (a lager) is ready to keg
>after 10 days.
>This brings me back to my aerations study a few years ago wherein I
>concluded that pitching lots of yeast has more impact on the onset
>of fermentation than any aeration one could possibly do.
That agrees with brewing science's understanding of what is going on Jack.
Yeast largly use oxygen for processing lipids (fatty acids) for growing. The
"lag phase" is the initial growing phase. You pitched the whole yeast
population of your previous batch so there was little need for growing or
O2, they just went back to work.
However, as in human populations, if we don't reproduce vigorously (am I
reproducing vigorously enough? Hmmm) then the population "greys", i.e. there
is a disproportionate percentage of old codgers/biddies and productivity and
efficiency suffers. Your starter based batches with high growth rates are
"better" due to a greater proportion of young yeast with healthier cell
walls. The health of the cell walls seems to affect flavour, Tracy Acquilla
seems to have much data on this.
Growth is usually FAN limited, lipid limited or O2 limited. In your case it
would be O2 limited which would leave you with excess FAN (amino acids) to
tempt bacteria, and an excess of fatty acids to promote staling and possibly
affect head retention. There is an upcountry microbrewer in Victoria,
Australia who does this and produces an aromatic, flavourful and headless
pilsener with a short shelf life.
So in summary, aeration promotes growth (ideally 4 or 5:1) which,
1/ Gives a age profile of your yeast as young as possible
2/ consumes most amino acids and simple peptides removing a source of
bacteria food
3/ dramatically reduces lipid concentration by using them to build cell walls
But yes, a vigorous fermentation can be obtained without aeration. (Notice
that I dared not touch the ester thread again.)
Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)
Return to table of contents
From: EDWARD SPADONI <SL9YN at cc.usu.edu>
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 10:56:49 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Fruit Beers
I'm fairly new to brewing and have a question about fruit beers.
I'm currently making a Raspberry Brew using Malt Extract, Real Raspberries
and a little crystal malt. I'm concerned about using real fruit because
the recipe did not call for any chemicals like they do for many fruit
wines. Do I have to worry about any infections and what not. I'm supposed
to put 24 ounces in right after boiling the wort (done) and another 24
in when I rack to secondary. Does the second 24 ounces need to be boiled
or heated or anything. I'd hate for this expensive raspberry batch to be
ruined by something. Any advice from anyone would be appreciated.
Thanks
Ignorant Ed
Return to table of contents
From: "Don Van Valkenburg" <DONVANV at msn.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 17:01:05 UT
Subject: Frrrreessshhhh HOPS
Miguel de Salas writes about his fresh picked hops:
>Now I find I haven't been able to use any of those hops. Whenever I use them
>I ruin the batch with very strong grassy flavours, like of tea made of fresh
>grass or roadside weeds
One common misconception about hops is that they should be FRESH like the
tomatoes and lettuce they buy. To the contrary they should be properly aged;
and this is where the confusion begins. How much aging is enough aging?
There is a good discussion on this in the current issue of Brewing Techniques
Magazine (Vol. 4, No. 4) in the letters to editor section.
I would recommend picking up the magazine, but to summarize comments by Ralph
Olson of HOPUNION. He said that samples sent to a brewery who was use to
German hops were reported to be too grassy and they preferred the German hops
(Germany doesn't use cold storage like domestic hop merchants). HOPUNION then
sent a second sample (from the same bale of hops) for further evaluation.
This time they were set out at room temperature for two weeks to oxidize in a
non-vacuum sealed package. The brewery reported back that they liked the
second sample much better and went on to say that they were more like the
German hops that they were use to buying.
Don Van Valkenburg
donvanv at MSN.COM
Return to table of contents
From: korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 12:33:33 CDT
Subject: sulphites are NOT sterilants/seeded hops/Wyeast Scottish/American oak
Dave writes:
>AlK says that sulfites in acid media ( like fruits and juices) don't
sterilize.
>I have read this several times here in the HBD and wonder what the origin is
of
>this statement, as I have read for many years in many books that acidic
>sulfites are sterilants. <snip> Please provide a primary reference.
On the contrary, I ask you to provide a non-amateur reference that says
they are *sterilants*. There are hundreds of pieces of bad advice in the
dozens of amateur beer and winemaking books. I am no more likely to find
a professional text or biology book that says that sulphites do not sterilize
than I am to find a physics text that says force does not equal mass times
acceleration.
The book you reference does not say they "sterilize." This is a very specific
term and according to Webster's (in our context) it means "to free from living
microorganisms." This is ideally what we would like, but short of pressure
cooking, we can't get our wort or must to this level in the kitchen. In labs,
there's also irradiation, but that's another topic.
The book you reference says "disinfect" and "antiseptic." According to
Webster's, "disinfect" means "to free from infection, esp. by destroying
harmful microorganisms." Sounds good, but "disinfectant" means "a chemical
that destroys vegetative forms of harmful microorganisms esp. on inanimate
objects but that may be less effective in destroying bacterial spores."
As I read it, a disinfectant does not sterilize, so "disinfect" is not
equivalent to "sterilize."
Webster's says something even more interesting about "antiseptic:" "a
substance that checks the growth or action of microorganisms..."
I would say that this is very close to what I posted about sulphites on
960711:
>Contrary to popular belief and many incorrect homebrewing books,
>metabisulfites (sodium metabisulfite, potassium metabisulfite, Campden
>tablets) are NOT sanitizers. They work by releasing [sulfur dioxide]
>gas when in an acid solution which INHIBITS the growth (but does not
>kill) yeast and many bacteria.
Then Dave writes:
>The bottom line is, however, acidic solutions of metabisulfite with a pH less
>than 3.0 are excellent sterilants for yeast and bacteria
No Dave... you added the word "excellent" out of the blue and substituted
(incorrectly) "sterilants" for "antiseptics." The REAL bottom line is
that sulfites may kill some yeasts and bacteria, but all we can count on is
that they INHIBIT the activity of pre-existing microorganisms and give our
cultured yeasts a chance to outcompete them for the nutrients and sugars.
***
On the subject of seeded versus unseeded hops, there is a fantastic article
by Gail Nickerson (and, I believe Alfred Haunold) in the first issue of
Brewing Techniques. While this is out-of-print, it is available at the
BT website (sorry, don't have the URL).
***
Russ writes:
>I was considering using Wyeast Labs' Scotch ale strain for this. Any comments?
Yes. The *Scottish* Ale strain has a tendency to give smoky notes to the
beer. This would be unwelcome in a Brown Ale, in my opinion. At the 1995
Chicago Beer Society (1996 AHA Homebrew Club of the Year) Spooky Brew Review,
I judged a Scottish Ale that was *too* smoky. I later found the brewer and
asked how much smoked malt he used... "none," he said... "Wyeast Scottish Ale
yeast."
***
Dave writes:
>Most American oak casks are used ( once) to produce whiskey. The
>whiskey, being high proof and a good solvent extracts all the vanillins and
>related flavor ingredients as well as the caramelized wood sugars from the
char
>to get its smoothness and brown-red color. The fusel oils are extracted from
>the whiskey into this charcoal on the wall, supposedly.
Perhaps most American oak casks are made to be used by the whiskey industry,
but it is incorrect to say that these are the only type of American oak
barrels available to homebrewers. First of all, whiskey barrels are charred.
What we want (whether we are brewing pLambic, Flanders Brown/Red or English
ales) is uncharred oak. If it is unlined, uncharred American oak casks you
want, ask your retailer to get them from L.D.Carlson. They have something
like seven sizes from 1 or 2 gallons up to 50 gallons.
I would be very interested in your source regarding the alleged extraction
of fusel oils from the whiskey by the charcoal. I don't see why there is
any incentive for the alcohols to pass into the charcoal. Furthermore,
what's so special about fusel oils (aka fusel alcohols, aka higher alcohols)
that they, and not ethanol, would be extracted from the whiskey? Try to be
brief.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas at lucent.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
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From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at li.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:54:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Fruit, Temp Controller
Iggy Ed on Fruit:
>Does the second 24 ounces need to be boiled or heated or anything.
>I'd hate for this expensive raspberry batch to be ruined by something.
I would strongly suggest pasteurizing the fruit. This will kill any
wild yeasts that may be on it (wild yeasts can ferment sugars not
normally fermented, causing gushers and bottle bombs).
The method I use is to place the fruit in ziplock bags and freeze. Then
boil a couple of gallons of water, turn off heat and drop the bags of
fruit into the water. Let sit for about 30 mins, remove from the water,
and mash the fruit between your fingers while still in the bag. Once
fruit has turned to juice, snip the corner off the bag and dump into
fermenter.
Temperature Controllers:
Can someone tell me a source for temperature controllers? I would like
to build a fermentation chiller (like described on Martys page). I would
like the controller to be able to control both hot and cold. I plan on
using this with ice in the summer and a heater in the winter. The controller
needs to be able to switch 115 VAC and control temperatures between 32F and
70F.
Note: I've seen the schematics for temperature controllers on the web but
electronics are not my gig. If anyone would offer to make a controller for
me I would gladly pay...
John Varady
Boneyard Brewing Co.
"Ale Today, Gone Tomorrow"
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From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster at ponyexpress.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:10:03 -0500
Subject: electronic burner ignition
Hello fellow homebewers! Yesterday I came up with a neat little
addition to my brewing setup and, since I've never heard it mentioned
here before, I thought I'd share...
The way that my system is built, it is difficult to access my burner
to light it when a full keg is on top of it. Even with a long
lighter, it is a stretch to get the flame close enough to the
burner, and I frequently found myself burning a knuckle or melting my
lighter on a boiling hot kettle when trying to re-light a burner that
had been been turned off. Not to mention the lighter running out of
fuel or wearing out.
Well, I was browsing through Lowe's yesterday (similar to Home Depot,
only not as good) and came across a replacement ignition switch for
gas grills. It only cost $10, so I figured I'd give it a whirl. It
is a very simple item that looks like a large spark plug and
generates an electric spark when its button is pressed. (For an
interesting visual effect, stick it on your tongue and press
the button. Besides seeing some neat colors & stars, it'll probably
also knock out your loose fillings!)
The only difficult part was mounting it, since it is designed to go
on a gas grill, not a ring burner. But I was able to securely wedge
it into place using an included metal extension tab. It sits right
up against the openings on top of my ring burner with the metal tab
extending back against the wall of my burner and fits very snugly in
place. Currently the wire and button are hanging loose, but as soon
as I can buy or borrow a 3/4" drill bit I will mount the button
permanantly on my 2-tier wooden frame. Now lighting my grill is as
simple as opening a valve and pressing a button! I am very pleased
with it.
Not sure how you would mount one on a jet burner, but I'll leave that
as an excercise for the reader. Enjoy, and let me know if you need
better descriptions of what I did.
Keith Royster - Mooresville, North Carolina
"Where if the kudzu don't gitcha, the Baptists will!"
mailto:Keith.Royster at ponyexpress.com
at your.service: http://dezines.com/ at your.service
Carolina BrewMasters: http://dezines.com/ at your.service/cbm
My RIMS: http://dezines.com/ at your.service/RIMS (rated COOL! by the Brewery)
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