HOMEBREW Digest #2378 Wed 19 March 1997
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Hop Rhizomes (UTC +01:00)" <d_peters at e-mail.com>
RE: HBD distribution list (AJN)
Cold Plates (Mark_Snyder)
Re: Imperial Stout (DGofus)
HSA question ("Bill Rucker")
boiling sparge / $5 kegs / pedios, homos, & heteros ("Keith Royster")
Request for Recipe Critique - Vienna Lager (decoction) (Charles Burns)
recipe request - lemon lager (Hal Davis)
Beer Keg Boil Kettle ("ron white")
Re: Corn Meal vs. Flaked Maize (Jeff Renner)
Need for Mashout and Mash length ("Tom Galley")
Clogged EZ-Masher screen (Steve)
Hops and Dogs ("Layne")
Spamming (Mike Hughes)
Re:Buckwheat in Beer ("A.S. Tomb")
mashout (korz)
American classic pilsner (Charles Rich)
RIMS equipment for sale (RUSt1d?)
Re: decoction at mashout (Steve Alexander)
Multiple Kegs on same tank & source of Cornie Kegs (Eddie Kent)
Gravity change equations, HBD 2375 (Hugh Graham)
Comments and questions... (John Mattson)
Spaniard's Inn (Spencer W Thomas)
Prima Pils (Jim Busch)
Re: Using corn meal (dugarm)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 02:49:25 EST
From: "DAVID T. PETERS GERMANY(UTC +01:00)" <d_peters at e-mail.com>
Subject: Hop Rhizomes
I noticed the recent discussion on Hops. I am interested in planting some
Hops later this year when I return to the United States. I am wondering a
couple of things.
1. What types of Hops will grow well in the metropolitan Detroit area?
2. What can you use these hops for? Strictly flavor and aroma? since you
can not calculate AA %.
3. What time of year is the right time to plant the hops? I need to know
if I should order them before returning to the states or not.
If the second point is true, then I guess that I will have to decide what
type of hop I prefer to use for this purpose and what will thrive in Michigan.
I have done some brewing here in Germany. Supplies are somewhat available.
But, I look forward to getting back to America and getting a recharge on my
brewing enthusiasm from the F.O.R.D. Club.
TIA for your help in sorting out my problems.
REGARDS, DAVID T. PETERS E-MAIL: d_peters at e-mail.com
FORD OF GERMANY
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:00:55 -0500 (EST)
From: AJN <neitzkea at frc.com>
Subject: RE: HBD distribution list
> From: "Karl F. Lutzen" <lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org>
>
> However, I cannot vouch for any previous "owner" of the list. What they
> have done with it is unknown to me.
>
> ==================================================================
> Karl Lutzen lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org
> System Administrator
> The Brewery http://alpha.rollanet.org/
>
Well... The previous onwer used majordomo software. This allows anyone
to send a command to get the current list membership.
I did this before the move just out of curiosity and it worked!
_________________________________________________________________________
Arnold J. Neitzke Internet Mail: neitzkea at frc.com
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 06:51:29 -0500
From: Mark_Snyder at WMX.COM
Subject: Cold Plates
Mark Snyder
03-18-97 06:51 AM
I've completed my corny keg system and am trying to find an easy way to
serve cold beer away from the home. I recall the "cold plate and igloo
cooler" dispensing systems from my college days and thought this might be
the way to go. I assume they are still used and available. Does anyone
know of a source for the cold plate, since it would be easy enough to make
up the cooler system once a plate is acquired?
I know I could probably work one up by using 25 feet of copper tubing, etc.
however the plate would be more convenient and possibly easier to clean.
Thanks in advance.
Mark_Snyder at wmx.com
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 07:59:11 -0500 (EST)
From: DGofus at aol.com
Subject: Re: Imperial Stout
I am planning to brew an imperial stout, but I need some help and guidlines.
I understand that it needs to age for a long time(6-12 months). Is it best to
age in a glass fermenter, or is it best to bottle and let age in that? What
about the actual brewing, anything that I need to know or do different. I am
a new hombrewer and do extract brewing.
**** Thanks in Advance ****
Bob Fesmire
Dgofus at aol.com
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 08:09:30 +5
From: "Bill Rucker" <brewzer at peanut.mv.com>
Subject: HSA question
HBD'ers,
I have a question that arises after completing my 3 vessel system and
brewing with it for only one batch. I use gravity to drain the sparge
liquid into the boiling kettle. Realizing that this liquid is above
the desirable temperatures to avoid HSA, one would think it best not
to add air whilst moving it around.
I had a problem, not big one thank goodness, where during the sparge
with a piece of flexible tubing connected to the outlet of the mash
tun that eventually backed up to the top of the tube and slowed the
sparge flow to nothing. There is probably several ways to avoid this
but it brought a question to my feeble mind. Wouldn't boiling (which
is the next step) remove the air from the wort thus negating the
effects of introducing air to the fresh wort in the first place?
I would be interested to hear some opinions or even scientific
explanations. I have read with curiosity how some folks just do it,
let it pour that is, and some go to great lengths to prevent it. I
have done it both ways in the past with no seeming ill effects. Can
this be explained?
Thanks for all the help that I received while building my system
from all who responded to my questions. The system works like a dream
and I couldn't have expected it to work any better. For those who
might be interested, it is a 3 vessel converted keg system using a
recirculating method. The recirc goes through a coil which is built
into the sparge tank. I can get temp increases through the coil in
excellent time. Singular data point, first batch, 104 - 140 in about
15 minutes. The delta temp between mash inlet and outlet was never
greater than 6 degrees. System provided 33 pts/lb/gal. Gotta like it!
Look forward to hearing some info on the HSA thing.
Cheers,
Bill
#########################################
Head brewer and proprietor,
Hellfire Home Brewery,
Somersworth, NH
If Brewing is living, Beer is life!
#########################################
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 08:30:09 +0500
From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster at pex.net>
Subject: boiling sparge / $5 kegs / pedios, homos, & heteros
Jeff Renner, responding to the mash out thread, says:
> Note that some HBDers, most notably Jack Schmidling, have reported
> sparging with boiling water with no resulting haze. My guess is
> that liberated starches remain trapped in the top levels of the
> grain bed if there is no stirring of the bed. Middle and lower
> levels of the bed remain cooler than the critical temperature.
A *LOT* of people I know, including myself, sparge with boiling
water. 'Tis true that sparge temps should be kept around 170dF, but
after being sprinkled through the air out of my rotating sparge arm,
the water is significantly cooled. I have measured the temp of the
grain bed during the sparge and it has never been significantly over
170dF.
- ------------------
Nathan Moore <moorent at bechtel.Colorado.EDU> asks about cheap kegs
and co2 cylinders
> I keep reading/hearing stories about people finding $5 Cornelius
> kegs and $15 5lb CO2 cylinders. I searched the archives and still
> don't have a clue about were to find these.
We have a used restaurant supply store here in Charlotte that has
corny kegs for $5 and 20# CO2 tanks for $25 (plus about $10 to
recertify them if necessary). It is basically a junk yard that
specializes in restaurant equipment. It can be a gold mine for
other homebrewing gadgets too. Check your yellow pages for
restaurant supply stores.
- ------------------
Regarding the recent thread on "pedios (homo/hetero) - why?"
Geez guys, this is a brewing related forum! Not alt.sex.perverts.
.....talk about wasted bandwidth.
- ------------------
Keith Royster - Mooresville, North Carolina
"An Engineer is someone who measures it with a micrometer,
marks it with a piece of chalk, and cuts it with an ax!"
mailto:Keith.Royster at pex.net
For information about the 1997 U.S.Open homebrew competition, visit
http://dezines.com/ at your.service/cbm/usopen/
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 97 05:46 PST
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: Request for Recipe Critique - Vienna Lager (decoction)
I'm calling this Victory Vienna because it will represent my "victory"
over the decoction process. What does the collective think about this
recipe? Wherewill it fail to meet the style? Does this single decoction
process sound ok? Is 130F a waste of time? Should it be 120F or 140F
instead? And what about Rachel...
Victory Vienna
For 5 US Gallons:
Predicted Starting Gravity - 1.052
Predicted Ending Gravity - 1.013
Predicted Color (srm) - 13.0
Approximate Hop IBUs - 26
Malts:
3.00 lb. DWC Lager 2-Row
3.00 lb. DWC Munich Dark
5.00 lb. DWC Vienna
Hops:
0.50 oz. German N. Brewer 8.8% 60 min
1.50 oz. German Hallatauer 3.8% 15 min
Dough-in with 11 quarts of water at 145F for first step at 130F for 15 minutes
Pull one third (is this enough?) of thick mash and combine with 3 quarts of
water in kettle.
Bring decoction up to 160F over 12-15 minutes.
Rest decoction at 160F for 20 minutes.
Bring decoction to boil and boil for 20 minutes.
Return decoction to mash bringing main mash up to 155-160F.
Rest main mash for 45-60 minutes or until converted.
Sparge, boil for 10 minutes.
Add bittering hops. Boil 45 minutes, add flavor hops and IM.
Boil 15 min, chill, pitch.
The last question I have is yeast. Its really too warm now for me to use a
true Lager yeast like Wyeast 2206 Bavarian. How about California Common
Wyeast 2112?
7-15 day Primary from 58-64F.
21 day secondary at 40F.
14 day lager at 33F.
Comments Please.
Charley
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 08:12:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Hal Davis <davis at planolaw.com>
Subject: recipe request - lemon lager
While visiting Portland on vacation, I tasted a number of yummy beers, but
one rather unusual one piqued my fancy. I had a Saxer Lemon Lager and really
enjoyed it. Later (in Yakima, Washington) I tried to pick up a six of the
stuff, and couldn't find the same brand. They had something else, and
something called Lemon Jack. The Lemon Jack (featuring a yellow jacket with
an eyepatch) tasted like "Champale does hard lemonade" and it was thrown out.
I just searched Cats Meow, and although it had a fairly high number of hits,
only one appeared to be a beer that used lemon as an ingredient. I am
baffled why a number of them were "hit" with "lemon" because I couldn't find
lemon in the recipe or description anywhere. The one hit was a tribute to
Pete's Summer Ale, with a "hint" of lemon. I'd like to duplicate the In Your
Face lemon I got from the lemon lager.
Help, anyone?
Hal Davis
Proprietor, the Safety Brewery, Plano, Texas
Member North Texas Home Brewers Association
Ignorance can be cured.
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 08:17:42 -0600
From: "ron white" <knotreel at concentric.net>
Subject: Beer Keg Boil Kettle
I am having no luck in finding a used keg (15 Gal) that I can modify to
make an boiler.
Is there a mail order souce? I live in Louisiana is there a source in the
Baton Rouge, New Orleans , or Houston area ?
Ron White
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:26:38 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Corn Meal vs. Flaked Maize
In Homebrew Digest #2377 (March 18, 1997), Russ Brodeur
<r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com> wrote:
>Subject: Corn Meal vs. Flaked Maize
>
>I am about to embark on my 2nd "Classic American Pilsner" attempt. My
>first was outstanding, IMHO, although it was a bit on the strong side
>for my taste (OG = 58). I used 2 lbs flaked maize and 7 lbs DWC pils
>malt with a single decoction to go from 135-154 F.
>
>For my second attempt I would like to lighten it up somewhat, and I am
>shooting for an OG ~ 1.052 using 6 lbs DWC pils and 2.5 lbs corn meal.
>I chose corn meal this time because: 1) it's cheap and 2) I plan on
>using a single decoction anyway wherein I can boil the ! at ##$ out of the
>corn meal to cook it, if necessary.
>
>I have never used corn meal in a mash before. Is this a Bozo no-no due
>to inferior quality?? Other than that I can't see any reason why it
>wouldn't work out just fine.
Glad to hear you're happy with this great style. I used corn meal in
January and it worked fine, although some of it ended up under the false
bottom, causing no problem. It is finer by a good bit than brewing grits.
I'd suggest using the cereal cooker mash like the big boys do, and as I
did. Add 10-25% crushed malt and rest it at saccharification temperatures
for a bit, then boost it and cook it for 45-60 minutes. The malt helps
avoid a huge lump, as does using enough water. Meanwhile, about 15-30
minutes before you're done boiling the cereal mash, mash in the balance of
the malt for a protein rest. That way you don't overdo that step waiting
for the corn to cook. Then add the cereal mash, which just might boost the
main mash temperature to where you want it. Keep boiling and cold water on
hand to adjust, and proceed as usual.
You are getting great conversion if you got five gallons at 1.058 from 9
lbs. of grain. I trust you know that your first recipe was 22% corn and
this second one is nearly 30% and that this is intentional.
I recently special ordered brewers grits and got "Briess Insta Grains (R)
IYCG Yellow Corn Grit (Instantized)." This cost about half of what flaked
maize cost. I called Briess to make sure that "Instantized" meant
pre-gelatinized, and that they could go straight into the mash without
cooking, and was told it did. Our club split the bag and at least one
brewer had no trouble. However, I want to cook anyway for possible flavor
changes, so I will. It turns out that they came from Briess's food
division not the brewing. I suppose they may just be grits like they eat
down where they say "you-all."
I hope you will enter this brew in some competitions. It is recognized as
a style now in the category "Classic Pilsner" along with German and
Bohemian Pilsners, but we need to enter to keep it.
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:36:35 -0600
From: "Tom Galley" <galley at sperry-sun.com>
Subject: Need for Mashout and Mash length
Jeff Renner wrote:
Addendum: After posting the above and cc'ing John, he
replied wondering if
this meant that the mash time was more critical than he had
thought. I
hadn't thought about this aspect. I usually mash 1-2
hours, but used to do
overnight mashes in the oven with no apparent
overconversion. Any thoughts
from the readership? Is wort stabilization more
theoretical than real. Is
a 1-2 hour mash effectively stabilzed?
I don't think that the mash length results in over
conversion. My mash time is typically around 1.5 hours,
because I am boiling, cooling, and reheating my sparge
water at the same time. I have found no particular
difference between 1, 1.5, and 3 hour mashes. Converted is
converted, at least in my modest experience.
I have experimented a bit with lower temperature sparges
(i.e. no mashout), and found that the effect was lower
extraction efficiency without creating a particularly dry
beer. I concluded that mashout was optional, as long as I
accounted for the slightly reduced efficiency.
Conversely, I also have found that I can increase
efficiency by mashing out at 168F and sparging at 175F
without releasing excessive tannins, if I keep my ph real
low (<=5.0). This has become my standard practice although
more by habit than anything.
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:53:28 -0600 (CST)
From: Steve <JOHNSONS at UANSV5.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Clogged EZ-Masher screen
I just caught up on reading some previous digests and came across two recent
posts: one from Paul S. in #2371 and another from Craig Rode in #2373 --
both talking about problems with the screen on the EZ-Masher (TM) getting
clogged with grain and adjunct materials and slowing down the sparge
process. Well, I, too, am a happy customer of the EZ-Masher and have
been brewing all-grain batches with it since July '96, and noticed some
slowing of my sparges, particularly right after doing an Oatmeal Stout
around Christmas this past Dec. I thought that I had been doing a fairly
thorough job of cleaning it each time, but when I finally got around
to disassembling the whole thing prior to a no-sparge demonstration for
our brew-club this weekend, I realized that the screen was VERY clogged.
My solution was to soak it in a washing soda (sodium carbonate) solution for
about a half hour, then scrubbed it with an OLD toothbrush that I use to
clean my grain mill rollers. The best method seemed to be to push the
bristles, rather than scrub, because the bristles would go through the screen
and allow the debris to be rinsed out from the inside. One last thing that
helped was to use some long Q-tip type cleaners to run along the inside to
get the rest out. Resulted in quite a lot of brewing crud in my sink!
I think I'll clean this screening every 2nd or 3rd brew session to keep it
from building up. Oh, yeah, the no-sparge method drained off very well,
and we'll be evaluating it next month and compare it with some similar
sparged batches with the same grain bill and yeast. We'll post our
results here.
Steve Johnson,
Music City Brewers
Nashville, TN
p.s. An empty carboy is just an oversized flower vase...keep those carboys
filled!
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:21:32 -0800
From: "Layne" <wetpetz at oberon.ark.com>
Subject: Hops and Dogs
In Home Brew Digest #2377
John Penn wrote;
"As for hop plants, for those in MD, the homebrew store in Columbia, MD
is taking orders for the next month or so? If I didn't have a dog, I'd
consider it myself but I'm worried about the dog/hop poisoning problem."
Whoa, back up, please!
Dogs get poisoned by Hops? Are other animals affected as well? I've been
considering planting hops and have started looking for a source to buy
some. Now I'm looking for information on this new BIG problem.
There are several dogs around as well as; horses, sheep, rabbits and deer
that like to frequent my yard and unfortunately the fenced in garden area.
How exactly are the dogs affected? Can they be affected by dried hops? If
anyone has some answers or would be able to direct me to some additional
reading I would appreciate the help.
Private e-mail is best, I'll post an appropriate summary for HBD readers.
Thanks all,
Layne Rossi
wetpetz at oberon.ark.com
Campbell River, BC, Canada
And now.... Back to BEER!
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:31:23 -0800
From: Mike Hughes <mikehu at synopsys.com>
Subject: Spamming
Greetings -
Karl Lutzen Writes:
>You can rest assured that if you receive "junk" email, it did not
>originate from the HBD distribution list that is currently being
>maintained by Pat Babcock and myself.
>However, I cannot vouch for any previous "owner" of the list. What they
>have done with it is unknown to me.
I too have been receiving un-solicited email advertising homebrewing
supplies. This started after the AOB took over the digest. Can't help
but wonder if the reason they offered to manage the digest was so that
they could get their money grubbing hands on the list. I think it
stinks.
Mike H.
Portland Or.
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:04:47 -0600 (CST)
From: "A.S. Tomb" <astomb at ksu.edu>
Subject: Re:Buckwheat in Beer
>
>Buckwheat in Beer?
>>Since Rick Gontarek asked about the use of Buckwheat in beer it occured to
me that many home brewers may not know that buckwheat in addition to being
one of the favorite characters in the "Little Rascals" is a widely
cultivated flowering plant in cool temporate regions. It is NOT related to
wheat. Buckwheat (Fagopyrum esculentum: Polygonaceae) is a relative of
smartweeds and knotweeds that has been selected for larger seeds and more
starch and albumen. It should work, but I have no idea what flavors it will
impart. The flavor of cooked buckwheat is very subtle.
>Dr. Spencer Tomb
>Division of Biology
>Ks. State Univ.
>Manhattan, KS 66506
>astomb at ksu.edu
>
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:08:17 -0600 (CST)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: mashout
Jeff writes:
>Addendum: After posting the above and cc'ing John, he replied wondering if
>this meant that the mash time was more critical than he had thought. I
>hadn't thought about this aspect. I usually mash 1-2 hours, but used to do
>overnight mashes in the oven with no apparent overconversion. Any thoughts
>from the readership? Is wort stabilization more theoretical than real. Is
>a 1-2 hour mash effectively stabilzed?
I too believe that mashout is pretty much to reduce viscosity and not to
do anything to the enzymes. I believe that Malting and Brewing Science
says that beta-amylase denatures after 2 hours at 150F. So, we have one
of three scenarios:
1. we want a fermentable wort with few dextrins,
2. we want a dextrinous wort with low fermentability, or
3. we want something in between.
If 1, then we mash at, say, 150F for two hours. If any enzymes are still
active after two hours, well, then we welcome them to keep munching because,
after all, we wanted a fermentatble wort, didn't we?
If 2, then we mash at, say, 158F for an hour or so. I'm quite certain that
there will be virtually no beta-amylase still active after 20 min and if
the alpha-amylase is still active, it probably means that there is still
some starch left (well, it is possible for alpha amylase to cut some links
such that there a fermentable sugar is produced, but statistically this
is a far smaller effect on the fermentability than the action of beta-
amylase). A mashout would only be denaturing alpha-amylase whose continued
action would affect fermentability very little if at all.
If 3, then, well, presumably, we have chosen the temperature such that
all the beta-amylase will poop-out sometime during the mash... that's why
this wort will *not* be "highly fermentable." Therefore, only alpha-amylase
remains to be be denatured by the mashout (see "If 2" above).
So, that brings us back to: mashout is unlikely to have any "stabilizing"
effect on the fermentability. I think that long ago, someone made a
presumption about this effect of mashout and never really thought it through.
I know that even professional texts say that mashout (even the boil)
deactivates enzymes, but consider the three scenarios and see if you can
suggest a case where mashout would really be important for determining
the fermentability of the wort. I don't think such a case exists.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:22:13 -0800
From: Charles Rich <CharlesR at saros.com>
Subject: American classic pilsner
In HBD #2377 Russ Brodeur asks about corn grits
I made my first attempt at Jeff Renner's American Classic Pilsner three
weeks ago and I used corn grits, the coarsest I could find, which was a
polenta grind from the local health food co-op. A good deal at $0.50
per pound verus $2.00/lb. for flaked maize at the brewstore. I used a
4:1 water:grits to cook and thought it came out very thick, next time
I'll go 8:1. It spooned out thickly like, well polenta, or mashed
potatoes but broke up and mixed in well enough when I stirred it in at
mashin.
One trick I've heard of that I didn't do this time is to add about a
pound of your base malt to the grits when cooking and hold for a
mini-rest at about 150-158 to liquify the existing free starch. The
bulk of your corn starch doesn't gelatinize until about 180+ degrees or
higher, where amalases will have long since denatured, but supposedly
this still helps. I stuck the cereal pot in a pressure canner to cook
it all quickly and evenly, for about fifteen minutes at 15lbs. If
cooking it on a stovetop I'd just bring it to boil and stirr
occassionally until it tasted nicely cooked. Mailllard reaction?
The wort was very sweet with a light pleasant sweet corn note, not
objectionable. I haven't tried the resulting beer yet but I think
already that I'll develop the recipe for a beer that my american-beer
drinking friends will also enjoy. It's certainly the cheapest beer I've
ever made. I'm also considering mashing with hominy grits at least once
to see where the flavor goes. Might possibly be good in a rye beer if
used with a light touch.
Cheers to all
Charles Rich ( Seattle, USA)
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:48:07 -0800
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at li.com>
Subject: RIMS equipment for sale
I have a BrewCraft RIMS controller and heater for sale.
(Brewcraft Ltd., (214)446-3406; Compuserve 76004,1610)
I paid $149 for the controller and $79 for the heater.
I would like $110 for the controller, $50 for the heater.($135 for the
pair).
The controller is new, still in the box (it burnt out after 4 batches
and I
sent it back. It was replaced and returned to me, but I never opened
it).
I am selling these as I prefer to direct heat my sanke kettle with
propane.
The heating unit does not do the job for the brew length I use (12-13
gallons) but it works great for 5 gallons batches.
Jim Busch, can you give me some pointers on making my own Moonglow
Weizenbock?
My recipe thus far is 50% Belgian Wheat Malt, 30% Crisp 2-row, 20% Dark
Munich
brewed to 1065 SG with 15 IBUs Saaz for bittering. I plan on triple
decoction
mashing and using oat hulls to aid the sparge. Should I avoid boiling
the oat
hulls with the decoction and just add them at the start of the sparge?
Will I
even need them? I am planning on using Wyeast 3068 and fermenting at
65F.
If I can't get dark munich malt what portions of Belgian Munich and
Chocolate
malt will get me close to the flavor profile of dark munich?
Any one around Philly wanna come to an all grain session? I am thinking
of a
Saturday invite to all interested, probably 4/19. I have several kegs of
brew
that need emptying and I am having a problem kicking them myself.
Afterwards
we could hit the brewpub across the street.
Reply to eve at charon.ogi.com (my email addr is currently whacked...)
John Varady in Lafayette Hill, PA
"The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program"
http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady/index.html
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:54:30 -0500
From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Re: decoction at mashout
Jeff Renner answers and asks ...
>>>The point of mashout is to destroy enzymes and stabilize the wort.
...
>Whisky makers do not mash out since they want to
>maximize the fermentables, which of course results in more alcohol. The
>conversion continues during runoff in this case.
Minor nit, but US whisky mfgrs don't even sparge till much later, but
pitch or add a 'holdback' right onto the hot thin mash, where it
ferments and continues to mash simultaneously.
>Addendum: After posting the above and cc'ing John, he replied wondering if
>this meant that the mash time was more critical than he had thought. I
>hadn't thought about this aspect. I usually mash 1-2 hours, but used to do
>overnight mashes in the oven with no apparent overconversion. Any thoughts
In practice beta-amylase(BA) is significantly inactivated by the end
of conversion in a mash hotter than 150F. Alpha-amylase(AA) is a bit
more heat stabile, but it will have a limited half-life in hotter
mashes. Exactly how much and how fast is dependent on a wide array of
conditions for these two enzymes. If you are doing an overnight mash
at say 154F, you can count on the BA dissappearing/diminishing on cue,
but the AA may continue to operate much of the night.
AA breaks 1-4 glucose bonds - but in some branched dextrins of the
sort remaining in wort, the AA molecule cannot geometrically arrange
to get it's 'working end' or functional site in place to break the 1-4
bond. AA is also more likely to break the middle than the end bonds
of a long-chain polysaccharide.
In practice this means that AA will break more long chain
polysaccharides into small ones rather than breaking dextrins and di-
and tri-saccharides - tho' it measurably does both. AA will not be
able to decompose certain branched dextrins at all, but will certinaly
degrade others. This last justifies mashout after conversion IMO.
Steve Alexander
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:14:59 -0600
From: Eddie Kent <ebk1 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Multiple Kegs on same tank & source of Cornie Kegs
I am about to buy a kegging setup ( to keg beer for my wedding
reception) and I wanted to be able to run 2 kegs off the same valve and
tank setup -anyone have any suggestions as to what has worked for them.
I am also trying to find plans for a homemade jockey box somewhere on
the web. Also, I was wondering if anyone knows of a good source of used
or refurbished 3 or 5 gallon cornelius kegs. I live in the
Houston, TX metro area. Please reply by private e-mail
<ebk1 at earthlink.com>.
Thanks in advance for the help!
I just bottled my first all-grain batch using Dr. Fix's no sparge method
to brew an IPA and it's terrific!!
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:09:50 -0700 (MST)
From: Hugh Graham <hugh at lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Subject: Gravity change equations, HBD 2375
Seems like you're on the right track.
Mass transfer (in this case transfer of sugars into
a mobile water phase) is a first order process
and the integration of a first order
decay equation (rate proportional to 1/[concentration])
gives an exponential concentration decay curve. Gravity is
of course a measure of sugar concentration.
But your analysis implies the assumption that
the mash is continuously and perfectly mixed,
i.e. the sugar concentration throughout the mash is
constant.
In practice this is not the case with homebrew sized mashes. The first
part of the run off will be at a constant high gravity until the sparge
water passes throught the mash bed and starts to reach the collection
manifold. (We chemical engineers describe this type of fluid flow as
'plug flow' as each little packet of fluid passes through as a separate
'plug' with no 'back-mixing'. Chanelling can mess this flow regime up).
Once the sparge water front, now containing some sugar reaches the
bottom of the mash the gravity if collected wort will at first drop
rapidly to a level determined by how well this sparge water is rinsing
residual sugars from the mash.
A first order decay process such as that you describe will then occur. (I
think!) Unfortunately the actual rate of decay of the wort gravity will
depend on mass transfer coefficients, lauter tun geometry and global and
local flowrates so a definitive equation will be hard to derive.
So, I envisage an initial plateau in the gravity
followed by a sudden drop then a gradual decay.
A model of this type should be around in chemical engineering
literature but the collection of data to produce an actual
predictive equation would require some experimentation.
Maybe we should all collect a data set (wort gravity vs. time,
imagine cooling all those samples for the hydrometer..)
Way to chemical engineer though!
Hugh
|--Hugh Graham Dept. of Chemical and Bioresource Eng--|
| Colorado State University, Ft. Collins CO. |
|-hugh at lamar.colostate.edu, hg798502 at engr.colostate.edu-|
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:16:55 -0800
From: jmattson at cport.com (John Mattson)
Subject: Comments and questions...
Hi,
I'm new to HBD since Dec of 96 (I wonder how many of us ended up here as a
result of receiving the $69 plastic bucket and carboy beer kit for Xmas).
My wife thinks she has created a monster. Hmmmmm...... I wonder why?
I started out with a stainless stock pot on the electric stove in the
kitchen, fermented in the closet or garage, and bottled when the beer was
done. Maybe I did get the fever. In less than 3 months, I have converted a
couple of kegs (stainless ball-valves... also plumbed for a permenant
thermometer to be added later) in anticipation of going all grain 10 gal
batches soon. Because I have a 1/2" NPT nipple welded in, will I need to
build my own EM screen or can I buy just that part somewhere?
Five gallons doesn't last long enough to get really good. Everytime someone
comes over, we end up sampling, and while it is not bad, it never has time
to condition and get really good until I'm down to my last 1 or 2 bottles
which taste great. I guess I need to brew harder, longer, and more at a time!
Now I am garage brewing on a propane cooker, and have also recently finished
procuring everything necessary for kegging (two ball-lock corney kegs, and
the C02 bottle, but only have 1 set of hoses so far). I hope to find a 3 or
4 valve manifold with individual shutoffs to mount inside the old fridge so
I run 2 or 3 kegs at a time with a single CO2 line into it from the outside.
Any ideas where I can find one reasonably priced? I think I've made pretty
good progress in only 3 months.... I must admit I've learned a lot just
lurking here!
Here are a couple more questions:
1. I have cleaned my kegs first by soaking overnight with a cup of vinegar
and hot water (disassembled dip tubes/connections soaked them separately).
Then I rinsed and soaked for sereral hours with baking soda. I rinsed the
baking soda and checked them several hours later, to discover that the pop
smell was just as strong as before I started cleaning them. I think one of
them previously contained Sprite, and the other had Dr.Pepper in it. The
one with Dr.Pepper had kind of a carbonated odor in it that stung my nasal
passages when I smelled it. I have since moved them outside with the tops
off for a couple of days, and they smell ok now, but I'm afraid as soon as I
close them up again the smell will come back. What should I try next? I
have a lager in the garage now that is ready to keg.
Oh.... Also I read somewhere that when I keg my beer I need to add spraymalt
or sugar... I use corn sugar in bottling, but if I am carbonating with C02
in the keg, do I still need to add sugar?
2. My next question is about yeast.... one of the biggest problems I've had
so far is getting fermentation to start in a reasonable amount of time.
I've had problems 4 out of 7 times with very slow starts (I had to dump 5
gal. after a stuck fermentation that I tried repitching several times). I
think maybe I've been doing something wrong, or shocking the yeast when I
pitch it. I have only used dry yeast so far, but I imagine the same applies
to smack-packs. I understand that the yeast can be shocked in the wort if
the temperature changes more than 8 degrees or so in a single day. Is
pitching time any different in regard to shocking the yeast? If I rehydrate
the yeast in a sterilized cup with boiled water cooled to 40 to 45
centigrade (104 to 115 degrees farenheit), wait 10 minutes or so then stir
before pitching, is it a shock to the yeast to pitch it into wort that is 65
to 70 degrees farenheit? Should I wait until they are the same temperature?
There is even a greater difference going from 104 to 115 degrees rehydrating
the yeast to 50 degree farenheit lagering temperatures in the garage. Any
advice?
3. One last question.... I strain the cooled wort with a funnel and
strainer as I pour it into the carboy. With someone else's help, I cover
the clean carboy top with a piece of plastic wrap, hold it in place with one
hand over the top, and shake it to try and aerate the wort. Should I shake
it before I pitch the yeast, or does it matter? Also, would it be better to
shake the carboy a little before it is completely full (while there is more
air in the headspace), then fill it the rest of the way and shake again?
suggestions?
Any advice or answers to my questions would be greatly appreciated.
John "The new home brewer in Kelso, Washington"
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:13:47 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Spaniard's Inn
Jim Booth lists:
The Spaniard's Inn Spaniard's Rd, NW3 0181-455-3276
Assuming I'm remembering right, I visited this pub as part of "The
Perfect London Walk" (Ebert & Curley, 1986)
I don't recall the beer as being anything special, it's a Charrington
pub.
The walk was very nice, though, starting in Hampstead, going across
the Heath, visiting a "stately home", and back down to the famous
Victorian cemetary (the name of which is escaping me, now.)
=Spencer
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:10:52 -0800
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Prima Pils
Bill reports:
<So you can imagine my good fortune when I
<visited that small decoction brewery in Southeast PA, Victory
<Brewing Company in Downingtown and tasted their reformulated
<Pils. WOW!!!!! Man am I glad it is now available in bottles.
<I've read HBD comments where people proclaim "it screamed Saaz."
<Well, it did. I encourage anyone in the area to check it out.
<Question to Jim Busch ... how do you guys *do that*? Do you dry
<hop? A Huge late addition? Any bittering hops? Any insights on
<the hop rate, schedule, and variety(s) used would be appreciated.
Glad you enjoyed Prima Pils! Its one of my favorite pils these days
and what tends to keep me from drinking my own homebrew!! Must give
credit where its due, Ron Barchet and Bill Covaleski. Hops, all Saaz
for now. This will change in the future as Victory blends in other
noble hops for complexity and consistency of taste. Victory only uses
whole hop flowers and I think this helps in a beer like a pils. Lots
of essential oils from all the hops. All I can divulge is that the
beer is made with a rediculous quantity of hops added in several
additions including FWH. A hopback is used and the beer is not dry
hopped as this tends to impart different hop character than what most
look for in a German pils. I really enjoy this beer when served in
the slow pour fashion as done in much of Germany, it takes about 12 minutes
to pour and decarbonates the beer a tad but the wispy creamy head that
stands on top is nirvana. I really think that well made Pils will be
the next IPA of lagers in craft brewing. The mid atlantic has several
reputable versions to offer.
Prost!
Jim Busch
http://www.victorybeer.com/
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:43:38 +0000
From: dugarm at mail1.mnsinc.com
Subject: Re: Using corn meal
>
Russ Brodeur asks about using corn meal instead of flaked maize in a
American pilsner recipe.
I would advise against it, because of the oil content of the corn
meal. When American brewers first experimented with corn they did
use corn meal, but suffered from head retention and stability
problems because of the oil in the corn meal. Instead of corn meal,
I'd use corn grits. When you do the cereal mash, don't forget to add
the 10% of the malt to the cereal mash. This is essential for
liquifying the starch: the one time I neglected this I burned the
grits rather badly. Smoked pre-prohibition pils, anybody?
Another idea would be to use corn starch. This ought to be boiled to
gelatinize it as well, but I've just added it to the mash, at the
cost of lowered extraction and some chill haze.
Whatever you do, don't try using instant potatoes for that Oh Spud!
Potato Pilsner. Even with rice hulls, the mash sticks remarkably.
Adjunct Boy
Delano DuGarm
Arlington, Virginia
dugarm at mnsinc.com
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