HOMEBREW Digest #2395 Fri 11 April 1997

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  digital thermometers (UTC -04:00)" <rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com>
  Where to classify Strong Scoth Ale with Rye? (Jim Means)
  Brown vs Green bottles. ("Rodroy Fingerhead")
  Recipe - Request for comments (Charles Burns)
  PID temperature control for RIMS ("Keith Royster")
  What makes a nut brown a "NUT" brown (Curt)
  gravity (Scott Campbell)
  Hot water (Scott Dornseif)
  Partial-mash recipe request ("Ellery.Samuels")
  1997 GAzBF Results ("RICHARD DRAKE")
  Fix mash schedule /  more decoction stuff / Adnam's yeast ("Louis K. Bonham")
  Re: Steeping versus Partial-Mash (Dave Riedel)
  fast maturing beers (James Murphy)
  Wahl-Henius (Glenn Raudins)
  Cooler mash tun/Aluminum brew ware (Joseph Bonner)
  starch grits/gelatinization (BAYEROSPACE)
  More pressure decoction ("Charles Rich")
  all-grain extraction (Dave Whitman)
  Hop Profiles Pt V (John Goldthwaite)
  RE: Digital Thermometers ("Jim Thomas")
  Mead ("Ted Major")
  UK Admiral Hops ("Penn, Thomas")
  Re: Black-N-Tan (Scott Abene)
  bathroom scale ("Bryan L. Gros")
  First Notice: Boneyard Brew-Off, Champaign-Urbana ("Joel Plutchak")
  Grain analysis ("Layne")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 07:55:27 EDT From: "Rich Byrnes USAET(UTC -04:00)" <rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com> Subject: digital thermometers Greetings all! Someone asked about digital thermometers yesterday and I thought I would throw in my $.02. If this is the Polder thermometer with timer, temp and temp alarm it is a GREAT unit, if you take the necessary precautions. Although nowhere in the documentation does it warn against immersing your probe in boiling or HOT liquid, don't do it! I verified with their cust. service dept. yesterday that the braided portion of the probe is not heat proof and the wires inside (well, the insulation) could melt and short the probe. The solution is quite simple and much better. First, straighten the curved portion of the probe, use a vise to make it nice and straight. Now, go to your friendly hardware store and buy 3 things, a 30" lavorotory pick up tube (in plumbing section), a compression fitting for that tube (3/8 if memory serves) and an end cap for that fitting. attatch one end of the comp fitting to the pickup tube, slide your probe through the tube until the end sticks out about 3", drill a small hole in the center of the end cap (just big enough to push the probe through, don't remember what size) and apply Dow Dap silicone to the inside of the cap so that any gap between the hole you drilled and the actual probe won't leak into the tube. Now throw some teflon tape on the compression fitting and screw the endcap on with your probe. As a precaution take a hose clamp and clamp the dangling braid to the top of the tube so that it doesn't pull out. Voila! You now have a 30" long RIGID probe for measuring different heights in your mash, I would order an additional probe ($10) just to keep around the brewery for measuring wort samples and other things that a 3' long probe would make difficult. Polders 800 number is 431-2133, the thermometer is model 632 (or polderwire at aol.com) The total cost for this modification is under $10 Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen \\\|/// phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com (_) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 07:57:58 -0400 From: Jim Means <jrmeans at diamond.nb.net> Subject: Where to classify Strong Scoth Ale with Rye? Hi folks, Just bottled a Strong Scotch Ale last night. Difference in the recipe is a pound of flaked rye. Turned out great! Dark brown, malty and clear with a backgrounded "rye" taste. Yumm! Just wondering where in the AHA style guidelines this might fall, in case I entered it in a competition. Is it still a "10b"? Jim in Pittsburgh Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 05:38:18 PDT From: "Rodroy Fingerhead" <sjbh64 at hotmail.com> Subject: Brown vs Green bottles. Homebrewers: This has probably been covered here in detail, but I'm new to homebrewing so I apologize for my ignorance. I'm about to try homebrewing and I have been saving green bottles from a popular European beer. Now I'm hearing that brown bottles are better. Here's the rub, the beer will be stored in a dark place, so perhaps this is a moot point. Any advice? Thanks Rodroy Fingerhead Twenty four hours in a day - twenty four beers in a case - Coincidence? - --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 97 05:51 PDT From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: Recipe - Request for comments Here's what I have so far for my "nut" brown recipe. Please comment as this is my first American Brown. I know, its too dark, but how's it gonna taste? Bubba's Brown Ale Malts/Sugars: 0.25 lb. Belgian Special-B 1.00 lb. Cara-Pils Dextrine 4.00 lb. DWC Munich 6.00 lb. Hugh Baird Pale Ale 2.00 lb. Crystal 80L 0.25 lb. Roast Barley 0.25 lb. Chocolate Hops: 0.75 oz. Chinook 10.0% 60 min 1.00 oz. Cascade 4.5% 5 min 1.00 oz. Mt Hood 6.5% 30 min Mash Temperature: 158F Wyeast 1056 at 62F Charley Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 08:55:23 +0500 From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster at pex.net> Subject: PID temperature control for RIMS Hello HBD! I've recently made some improvements to my RIMS system that I wanted to share with everyone. I have recently added automated temperature control to my RIMS as well as upgraded my heating chamber (the first one was undersized). The automatic temperature control is achieved using a PID temperature controller from Omega Engineering (www.omega.com). Dion Hollenbeck first mentioned the idea of using a PID to me a few months ago (thanks for the idea, Dion!) and since I have not heard of it mentioned before I thought I would share my experience. This nifty little device is perfect for those who don't want to or can't build their own Rodney Morris style temperature controller. In fact, I'd venture to say that it is a better device than any other RIMS controller on the market for two reasons: First, it actually learns how your system reacts to heating and it adjusts itself so that it reaches your set point as quickly as possible without overshooting it. Other RIMS controllers I've seen on the market require constant observation during temperature boosts so that you can cut the power back a few degrees prior to reaching your target temp and then it just maintains the temperature. The PID, on the other hand, is completely automated both during the boost ("ramps") and during temp maintenance ("soaks"). PID stands for Proportional, Integral, Differential, so it is actually using calculus to "know" when to begin backing off on the power so as not to overshoot your target temp. Furthermore, it has an auto-tune mode where it learns how your system reacts to heating (for example oil would take longer to heat than water) and it fills in the P,I, and D variables so that it can reach your setpoint as quickly as possible without overshooting. You just dial in your set point temp and walk away while it "ramps and soaks". If you are doing a step mash then you just set a timer and after it goes off you dial in the next target temp and walk away. Second, it has a digital LED temperature display. This is just neat because you can visually keep an eye on your mash temperature without having to check a thermometer. Plus you can watch the temp rise and then hold steady as the PID does its magic. This same digital display is also used when you dial in your target mash temp. Anyway, I just wanted to share this idea with everyone. If you are interested in more details, I have updated and improved my RIMS web page (address below). Information including photos, where I bought the parts, prices, and specific part numbers are included. I've done a lot of updating of my RIMS web page so even if you've seen it before I'd appreciate some feedback regarding the general look. Happy Brewing! Keith Royster - Mooresville, North Carolina "An Engineer is someone who measures it with a micrometer, marks it with a piece of chalk, and cuts it with an ax!" mailto:Keith.Royster at pex.net http://dezines.com/ at your.service - at your.service http://dezines.com/ at your.service/cbm -Carolina BrewMasters club page http://dezines.com/ at your.service/RIMS -My RIMS (rated COOL! by the Brewery) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 09:27:59 -0400 From: Curt <curtcip at interstat.net> Subject: What makes a nut brown a "NUT" brown - --I'm working up a recipe that hopefully comes close to DownTown Brown from the Lost Coast Brewing Co in Eureka CA. They call it a "nut" brown, I call it malty and chewy, lightly hopped and yummy. Any advice on giving it a "nutty" flavor (no I won't add pecans).-- Asks Charley. I've found that adding small (1/4 pound per 5 gal) amounts of choc malt or toasted malt (20 min or so at 300 or so) adds a nutty flavor. Curt Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 07:26:36 -0600 From: Scott Campbell <scampbell at landstroms.com> Subject: gravity A couple of days ago a friend and I were bottling our first partial mash (English bitter). I figured it was ready for bottling because of the minimal amount of activity in the air lock. We did not take a hydrometer reading until the priming sugar and beer were in the bottling bucket (oops). Our first reading was 1.02 which was a little high for our tastes. We decided to take another reading at the end of bottling thinking that the first reading may have had an overdose of priming sugar. To our surprise the second reading was almost 1.04. This really blew our minds. Does anyone have any idea why this might have happened. Your comments would be greatly appreciated. S. Campbell Rapid City, SD Ale Riders Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 09:17:11 -0500 From: Scott Dornseif <roundboy at wwa.com> Subject: Hot water Randy: The "reasons" given to me for not using hot water from the tap are: 1): The hot water picks up more lead from the plumbing than cold water. 2): The water picks up more mineral content while being stored in the "crusty" tank. #2 does NOT make sense to me. Anyway a $15 whole house water filter with a $4 carbon cartridge will remove enough lead and chlorine from your water to make it safe more usable and quite tasty. It may remove some of the mineral content you want in your beer, but if you are into treating your brew water anyway... AND If you "plumb the filter with tubing and use a female hose connector on the "in" side you can use the filter 'bout anywhere, kitchen sink, outide hose etc. Scott Dornseif roundboy at wwa.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 97 13:37:48 EDT From: "Ellery.Samuels" <esamuel at mvsb.nycenet.edu> Subject: Partial-mash recipe request I am looking to move from all extract brewing to using the partial mash technique. If you have a recipe that you have tried successfully I would appreciate your sending to me (e-mail ok) with directions for time, temp., etc.. Any hints, suggestions in this area, whether you send recipe or not, would be greatly appreciated. Thanx, Ellery Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 97 19:15:44 UT From: "RICHARD DRAKE" <HARDROCKENGR at msn.com> Subject: 1997 GAzBF Results I would like to thank all those brewers, judges and stewards that participated in the 1997 GAzBF Homebrew Competition. The list of the first three places is as follows: 1997 GAzBF Winners list Beer Style First Second Third Barley Wine Greg Scharrer John Vogt Nilsen Paul Lachmanek Belgian/French Ale James Gregg James Ortegus Mitch Hill Belgian Style Lambic Stephen McMillan Greg Scharrer Not Awarded Mild and Brown Ale Paul Gunn Brian Haggit Allan Toogood English Pale Ale Zachary Hilgers George Fix Allan Toogood American Style Ale Ron Thomas Brad Cross Greg Scharrer English Bitter Jim Volker Zachary Hilgers Randy Denofsky Scottish Ale Not Awarded Michael Wilberding Michael Fennessy Porter Greg Scharrer Alan Toogood Zachary Hilgers English & Strong Greg Scharrer Miguel Padilla Not Awarded Scotch Stouts Stephen McMillan Arthur Moore Miguel Padilla Bock Greg Scharrer Randy Drwinga Paul Gunn German Dark Lager Chris Hamilton Paul Claassen Ron Thomas German Light Lager Not Awarded Randy Drwinga Not Awarded Classic Pilsner Greg Scharrer Dave Hinkle George Fix American Lager Doug Chaffee Greg Scharrer Steve McClain V M O Carl Wargula Not Awarded Not Awarded German Style Ale Dave Hinkle Randy Denofsky Paul Lachmanek German Style Wheat Paul Claassen Steve McClain Greg Scharrer Smoked Beer Ted Rosenzweig Charles Vigorita Charles Scott Fruit and Vegetable Brian Haggit Randy Pote Randy Pote Herb and Spice Matt Stinchfield Zachary Hilgers Randy Drwinga Specialty Beer William Lee Charles Vigorita Greg Gregory California Common Diane Ramey Carl Gustafson Steve Newton Traditional Mead & Terrance McCarthy Randy Drwinga Zachary Hilgers Braggot Fruit and Vegetable Scott Barzona Not Awarded Not Awarded Mead Cider Ron Kloth Greg Scharrer David Holt Rick Drake GAzBF - Organizer Brewmeisters Anonymous - VP BJCP- Certified hardrockengr at msn.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 14:26:07 -0500 From: "Louis K. Bonham" <lkbonham at phoenix.net> Subject: Fix mash schedule / more decoction stuff / Adnam's yeast I've noticed a number of people refer to Dr. Fix's preferred mash schedule as "40-60-70"; i.e., a first rest at 40C (104F), followed by rests at 60C (140F) and 70C (158F). This is not correct. As George says: http://realbeer.com/spencer/FAQ/Fix-mash.html > I strongly prefer moderately modified malt for lager beer, > and I have found that a protein rest at 50C (122F) has > numerous advantages. I have done test brews with a 40-50-60-70 > schedule, but little is gained in yield over a 50-60-70 program. > I personally am going to stick with the latter since among other > things half of the 3 gals of transition water can be used to go > from 50 to 60, while the other half can be used to go from 60 to > 70. George confirmed the 50-60-70 scheudle in materials he presented in a seminar I produced a few years ago. On the decoction thread, Dr. Fix recently sent me a copy of an article with lots of very interesting data on a number of points that Dr. Pivo (sorry about that earlier misspelling, BTW), Steve A., and other have raised. Check it out: G. Sommer, "Trials for the Optimisation of Mashing Procedure," Brauwelt International 1986 (1), p. 23. This article details Henninger-Brau AG's evaluation of infusion v. decoction mashing, both in laboratory and brewhouse conditions. (It concludes that the qualitative differences in beers produced with decoction vs. infusion mashes were "extradinordinally small," and that, "based on a large number of tasting trials it could be confirmed that the taste was not changed" by converting from decoction to infusion mashing. This article contains lots of good info on other aspects of mashing, incluing the 50-60-70 schedule and data that contradicts the notion that thick mashes contribute anything *except* in the rare case where you need to do a protein rest. Well worth reading. Finally, I'm still searching for a source of the yeast used in Adnam's Extra. If anyone knows of a commercial source for this or has a sample in their yeast bank, please drop me a line. Louis K. Bonham lkbonham at phoenix.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 12:54:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Riedel <RIEDEL at ios.bc.ca> Subject: Re: Steeping versus Partial-Mash John Sullivan <sullvan at anet-stl.com> writes that he feels steeping specialty grains is "not a sound method for a brewer looking to advance his technique" because "Steeping grains is: > Limiting (i.e. you cannot steep all types of grains) > A crapshoot (you do not know how much extract you will get) > Potentially Problematic (unconverted starch)" I don't agree with this. Understanding the benefits of moving to steeping as a method requires that you keep in mind that the brewer is likely coming from 'kit-brewing'. Steeping allows much greater control over the brewing process than does kit brewing. I think it's the natural step in improving brewing technique and understanding. True, you cannot steep all types of grains, but crystal, chocolate, roasted barley and black patent offer the improving brewer with a myriad of recipe possibilities. As for the extraction crapshoot, I hardly think this is going to cause any loss of sleep; the amount of additional points is minimal. Unconverted starch is only a problem if 'mash- only' malts are steeped. >It is a simple move from steeping to partial mashing. Partial mashing Perhaps this is true in retrospect to an all-grainer, but I beg to differ. Steeping takes little more than 30 mins to accomplish. You generally heat your brewing water to dissolve the extracts before boiling anyway, so the added time is from crushing and steeping. Partial mashing is far more time consuming. The mash itself takes more than 30 mins, then there is recirc., runoff and sparge to consider. It also requires additional equipment and it is much more involved technique-wise. To a newbie who is already finding the tasks of cleaning and sanitizing arduous, I think the move to partial mashing is a big one. John then states: >somewhat in the same fashion as you would for an all grain batch. Though >a partial mash provides additional fermentables, the objective of the >technique is to improve the flavor of your beer. Partial mashers should Despite lacking the obvious possibilities of improved body, head-retention and maltiness (say by the addition of Munich malts), steeping is a great way to achieve flavour enhancement. While I do not in any way disagree that moving to partial-mashing has it's advantages, I don't think it's necessarily a better choice than moving to steeping. I like the steeping method because it's also a good way to introduce the use of hops rather than hopped extracts. If you are a newbie that has his sights on becoming an all-grain brewer as fast as possible, then by all means jump into partial-mashing right away. But, be aware that your brew day will increase in complexity considerably. If you are simply interested in improving your understanding of recipe formulation and what ingredients 'make a porter taste like a porter', I don't hesitate to recommend the steeping method. Here's to great beer by whatever method you choose, Dave Riedel Victoria, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 13:54:11 -0700 (PDT) From: James Murphy <murphy at gordy.ucdavis.edu> Subject: fast maturing beers Hi all, A friend will be getting married in mid-May and just asked me if I could brew some beer for the wedding. Given the short notice (5 weeks), I'm pretty limited on the types of beer I can brew. I'm interested in some feedback on 2 or 3 styles that will mature quickly enough to be ready for the wedding. I plan to brew some sort of ale this weekend, give it 7 days in the primary, about 7 days in the secondary and 3 weeks to mature in bottles (I don't have kegs). My limited experience has been that some ales need much more than 3 weeks to mature, at least that's been the case for my "darker" ales such as porter and brown ale. I'm guessing that a lightly hopped fruit ale using fruit extract might work ok since the extract might cover up any of the "harshness." Any other suggestions on styles, or even general guidelines for what I should/shouldn't do? Thanks, Jim Murphy -- Davis, CA jjmurphy at ucdavis.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 14:29:00 -0700 From: Glenn Raudins <raudins at lightscape.com> Subject: Wahl-Henius JohnT6020 at aol.com writes: >Jeff mentioned that he was following a Henius-Wahl schedule. That >reminds me that I posted a request a couple of weeks ago requesting >information on where I might be able to obtain copies of the H-W >series of books. Wahl-Henius published the "American Handy Book of the Brewing, Malting, and Auxialary Trades." (They may have published other items also.) Brewing Techniques has been working on re-publishing this book. Here is the response I got from Brewing Techniques: "We are still planning to publish this work, though it won't be until late 1997. The project is huge, and if we are to do it "right" (complete unabridged republication) we will have an expensive book with a limited market. We are definitely still pursuing it, but it must of necessity take a back seat to our regular business (BrewingTechniques magazine and the Brewers' Market Guide)." Glenn raudins at lightscape.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 18:50:58 -0400 From: bonnerj at rockvax.rockefeller.edu (Joseph Bonner) Subject: Cooler mash tun/Aluminum brew ware Hi all, First, thanks for all the great advice and discussion. I've learned a lot in three or four short months. In HBD #2393, John Sullivan <sullvan at anet-stl.com> gave a nice explanation on how to use a "lemon ade" cooler to partial mash. This brought to mind some questions I have about moving into partial- and all-grain brewing. I've been thinking about converting a Gott cooler into a mash/lauter tun and I've done a lot of searching through the HBD archives and the Brewery's technical library. One of my questions is how much does tun size (i.e., volume) affect mashing. Specifically, is a five gallon cooler going to be too big to effectively partial mash? I'm thinking in terms of the depth of the grain bed. Is there a minimum amount of grain (and mash water) that needs to be used? Economically, purchasing and modifying a five gallon cooler makes a lot of sense (at least to me). When the time comes when I'm ready to go all grain, I'll be equipped. This of course begs another question: If I'm going to invest the time and do a partial mash, why not go to a full mash? In shopping around, the Gott coolers seem to be very elusive, at least in NYC. The new Kmart near Madison Square Garden does carry Igloo coolers, however. (We're very proud of our new Kmart.) Are these comparable to the Gott? TIA. Any and all comments, suggestions and advice will be greatly appreciated. Private e-mail is fine. I'll post a summary. - ---- In HBD #2391, Russ Brodeur <r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com> noted some apprehension about using an aluminum pressure cooker for decoctions. Russ, I think the rumours that link Al with Alzheimer's have been greatly exaggerated (apologies to Mark Twain). <soapbox> I think this may turn out to be another case of junk science, right up there with cold fusion. </soapbox> AFAIK, there has been no direct evidence pointing to a causal link between the two. Although the cause is still unknown, most research into the cause(s) of AD focuses on genetic factors--it is inherited in some families--and the role of proteins in the brain that seem to contribute to the formation of the tangles and plaques that are the hallmarks of the disease. I think you'll be OK. Personally, I think life's too short to worry about getting AD from aluminum. In fact, one researcher plotted age of onset of AD against population lifespan and figured that if people lived to be 130 or 140 years old, everybody would develop Alzheimer's! (Although, this I also take with a grain of salt.) Joe Bonner New York, NY mailto:bonnerj at rockvax.rockefeller.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:56 -0600 From: M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE) Subject: starch grits/gelatinization collective homebrew conscience: charlie s wrote: >No, it doesn't make sense because gelatinisation is necessary for starch >flour to be converted by enzymes into simple reducing sugars. Balling is the >same problem as uncrushed malt, it impedes gelatinisation. Excess flour >usually causes an fairly impervious top dough that makes lautering difficult. yes, but would you agree that *if* you could avoid the balling problem, that extremely finely ground malt, not including the husks, would saccharify quicker (like, before all the enzyme population is decimated) than very coarsely ground malt? this is the ideal that al k was referring to. this idea comes from different homebrewing books and articles, where the "ideal" crush is said to be crushing the non-husk portion of the malt as finely as you can without destroying the husk too much. six roller malt mills are employed to get closer to this ideal crush. otherwise why would the big guys use six roller mills? what sort of tremendous "balling" problems are the big guys using six roller mills having? maybe they should all switch to two roller mills. maybe the problem is that they've never heard of two roller mills. we should really help anheuser out and reveal to them the superiority of the two roller mill. jack, how many maltmills(tm) do you think anheuser would need? several thousand i would think. ******************** i wrote: >>I routinely find starch grits in my lauter tun, after the sparge is over. >>this represents lost extract. If these pieces of starch had been more finely >>ground, they would have been available to the enzymes to convert, and more >>extract would be the result. >No, a homebrewer will never grind down flour to a single starch granule size >and then crush that so that enzymes may attack it. This is called >"micronised flour", not even a MM can do that for a homebrewer! It must be >GELATINISED, I think this is your problem . let me first say that, yes, i totally agree that starch must be made available to the enzymes before they can convert it. we really don't much mention gelatinization in this forum; it seems like it's implied most of the time. but, are you arguing that i would *not* get better extraction if i were somehow able to grind those starch grits more finely? to me it seems like there is starch inside that starch grit that never got gelatinized and subsequently saccharified. i propose that a "more ideal" crush would lead to more gelatinization, saccharification, and thus extract. the starch grits i find in my lauter tun have been through a decoction mash and usually a 2 hour saccharification rest between 151 and 156 F, typically. how is it that gelatinization is my problem? how can i better gelatinize these starch grits without a better quality crush? (smaller grits/preserving husks) should i stand by the mash tun and stir for two hours? ************** i also wrote: >>Now, why do i get a negative reaction for starch from the iodine test even >>though i'm finding starch in my lauter tun? because as soon as a little >>piece of starch breaks off the big starch grit, it gets converted. Actually, >>the enzymes are gathered round the starch grit like sharks around a whale, >>tearing off pieces and converting them simultaneously. charlie responded: >No, enzymes are not piranhas, they are catalysts. Starch needs to be in >solution in the form of a SOL or GEL. Insoluble but wet starch (ie >ungelatinised) can be helped (when wet)in becoming a GEL by alpha amlayse, >but heat does the job more effectively and faster. okay, i admit that's probably an inaccurate analogy. you wouldn't see a jacques cousteau film in a microscope, but the basic point i was trying to make is that you can't get starch to saccharify (or, first, gelatinize) if it's bound up in a big starch grit. it needs to be physically broken out, either by gradual gelatinization from the outside (the sharks), or by physically crushing the grit into pieces to expose more surface area for gelatinization and subsequent saccharification. i'm not mashing at 140 degrees, charlie. i'm not sure why you believe my problem is primarily with gelatinization. my mashes don't gelatinize as much as they should because i have big starch grits from a two roller mill. that's a crush problem first. the gelatinization problem comes after. this whole discussion started with al k describing what the ideal (impossible) crush would be like. of course, practically you can't achieve it, but i still agree with him that the ideal we should shoot for is grinding the inner portion of the malt as finely as possible and leaving the husks intact. we're never even going to get close to it with the equipment we have. this ignores the balling problem because with a two roll mill you're probably going to have problems with finely ground husk before you run into a lot of flour and balling difficulties. this is my experience. brew hard, mark bayer Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 22:38:45 -0700 From: "Charles Rich" <riches at halcyon.com> Subject: More pressure decoction Greetings, Just a follow up. I pressure canned four jars of decoc this sunday to watch their keeping qualities over a month or two. Frankly, I'm so confident of their keeping qualities that I kind of wonder why I'd bothered. But I planned to present it to other palates and get their opinions, too. Tuesday, several members of a local homebrew club tasted it and the reaction was unanimous, a truly great tasting decoc. Huge flavor, no bitterness or tannins, and a big, complex malty profile. Some thought I had been joking until they tasted. The idea of canning decoction may appeal to those using smaller pressure cookers or canners, since a few jars could be put up at a time until enough are laid by for The-Big-Decoc. I found that nursing little quart jars of mash through protein rest and saccharification before cooking was a pain but manageable. A half-pound (250g) of grain and a half-quart (500ml) of water fills a quart (1L) jar about 2/3's after cooking. 1-1/2 pounds (700g) at the same ratio should fill a half-gallon (2L) jar nicely. Three pounds should fill a gallon jar. I reserved one jar after cooking them all for forty minutes at 250F (121C), and I cooked it another twenty minutes to note the difference in browning. It wasn't much different. The practical cooking time appears to be between twenty (earlier post) and forty minutes at that temp. It becomes very brown. When cooking grains and especially legumes (not in my beer) in a pressure cooker you must keep them covered inside the cooker to prevent sputtering bits from obstructing the pressure gauge and vent. A big piece of foil works fine. A loosely lidded jar is safe. Blocking the vent or guage can result in a deadly accident, so read the instructions. I've had email problems since friday, if I haven't responded to your recent mail, please send again. Take care, Charles Rich (Seattle, USA) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:12:27 From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com> Subject: all-grain extraction In HBD#2394, Tim Watkins asks for advice on low all-grain extraction yields. Tim, there are two fundemental things that can lead to poor yields: 1. poor conversion of starch to sugar 2. poor washing of sugar out of the grain bed Your negative starch test suggests that (2) is the problem, although I don't know how much I trust that test. To check for poor washing, try tasting little bits of the grain from different areas of your tun after lautering. It should taste grainy, but not sweet. I caught a problem in my tun design this way, finding a region of my grain bed that was very sweet after lautering. Turned out that was a dead flow spot that didn't get properly extracted. Correcting this boosted yield 10% from 27 to 30 pt*gal/lb. I wouldn't expect uneven flow in a zapap-style tun, but who knows? Increasing the depth of water above the bed (while restricting outflow) might help get into any dead spots you find. Another thing to do is monitor the SG of your runnings over time. If they aren't falling off, that's a sign that the whole bed isn't being effectively washed. If the gravity of your final runnings is high mashout will probably help, as would slower sparging. Getting a better crush could help conversion if your crush is too coarse. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:48:44 -0400 (EDT) From: ir358 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John Goldthwaite) Subject: Hop Profiles Pt V Nugget--Domestic--All Purpose Selected from a cross between Brewer's Gold and a high alpha male. Alpha Acid: 12-14% Beta Acid: 4-6% Aroma: Quite heavy and herbal, spicy. Storage: 70-80% Used For: Extremely bitter. Medium to Dark ales and lagers. Subs: Chinook, Galena, Cluster Perle--Domestic--All Purpose Derived from English Notheren Brewer, new to the U.S. industry. Alpha Acid: 7-9.5% Beta Acid: 4-5% Aroma: Pleasant, slightly spicy Storage: 80-85% Used For: Minty bittering and good "green hop" aromas. All non- pilsener lagers, wheats Subs: Northern Brewer, Cluster, Galena Polnischer Lublin--Imported (Poland)--Finishing Another source of the classical noble-aroma type hop with long and strong traditions. Widely believed to be a clone of Saaz. Alpha Acid: 3-4.5% Beta Acid: 2.3-3.8% Aroma: Mild and typical of noble aroma types. Storage: 40-55% Used For: Finishing Subs: Czech Saaz, Tettnang Pride of Ringwood--Imported (Australia)--All Purpose At the time of release in 1965 it was the highest alpha hop in the world. closely associated with such famous beers as Foster's Lager. Alpha Acid: 7-10% Beta Acid: 5.3-6.5% Aroma: Quite pronounced but not unpleasant, citrus-like. Storage: 45-55% Used For: Finishing, very flavorful. Pilseners, Continental Used For: Disregard above. Predominantly bittering but with interesting aromatic qualities. British ales, Australian- style ales and lagers. Subs: Centennial, Galena, Cluster - -- BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 8:21:11 CDT From: "Jim Thomas" <jim.thomas at telops.gte.com> Subject: RE: Digital Thermometers Brewers, In HBD 2393, Mac asks about a digital thermometer he saw at a barbecue shop. I offer the following... I have a feeling from the description he offers, that the thermometer unit is the same one I have. It's white plastic, with a large LCD display, with timer and temperature readouts, with a shielded metal probe. Mine is made by Polder, and I purchased it from Kitchen Bazaar for $30. I used mine several times before encountering some problems. In fact, the problems led to my return of the unit for another. This is what happened: It would read accurate temperatures "ramping up," that is, monitoring strike water temp, checking mash temp etc. But, once the probe was removed from the hot water/mash, the temperature reading would ramp down partially. So in other words, removing the probe from a 155 degree mash into a 72 degree environment, the temperature readout would never go below, say 95 degrees. It just seems to get stuck. There is nothing predictable about this at all. I'm on my second unit and it's doing the same thing. Problem I have now, is that Kitchen Bazaar in Dallas has gone out of business, so I don't have an easy way of returing it. When this thing worked, though it was great. My advice: If this unit is made by Polder, buyer beware. Jim Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:59:57 -0400 From: "Ted Major"<tmajor at exrhub.exr.com> Subject: Mead Latelty there have been several posts asking about mead making. The mead digest covers such topics in detail.. To subscribe, send a message with a body that reads "subscribe" to mead-request@ talisman.com. To provide a little further help, here's a recipe my wife and I have had great success with, which I found in a 14th C English MS. Boil one gallon of honey (Sourwood is my favorite if you can get it, but grocery store honey works in a pinch) with four gallons of water for about 15 mins while skimming the foam that rises. Chill the must, and add to the dregs left in the primary (or secondary) fermenter from a batch of your favorite ale. Aerate and let ferment to completion, racking once or twice as you think necessary. Bottle when complete. I like to prime with a half cup of corn sugar for a light carbonation, but the choice of still or sparkling is up to you. Breow hael! Ted Major Athens GA tmajor at exr.com Return to table of contents
Date: 10 Apr 1997 10:04:36 -0400 From: "Penn, Thomas" <penn#m#_thomas at msgw.vf.lmco.com> Subject: UK Admiral Hops Thanks to Dave Riedel for the hop survey-what I thought would be a mundane exercise yielded some interesting info because of how the results were presented. I have to note that the popular hop varieties are parallel to the hops used in two popular craft brews, Sierra Nevada (Perle/Cascade) and Sam Adams beers (EKG and others). A question: I have some UK Admiral hops (13.3% alpha) left in my freezer, and I can't find any info on them. I believe that they're best used as a bittering hop for stout-can anyone provide any insight? Tom Penn Bordentown, NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:23:57 -0500 From: Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com> Subject: Re: Black-N-Tan KennyEddy at aol.com Wrote: >Subject: Black-N-Tan > >A further speculation on the Floating Guiness phenomenon is that perhaps the >dissolved nitrogen in draft Guiness helps suspend the liquid at the top of >the glass? I went through a big Black and Tan phase a couple of years ago... I found it almost impossible to pour a good Black and Tan until I went out and got a Nitrogen (75%) Co2 (25%) mix tank. I too feel that the dissolved Nitrogen helps suspend the Guinness on top of the Bass... I actually took the time to pour the Ale with a standard Co2 tap and then pushed the Stout with the Nitrogen (75%) Co2 (25%) mix tank. Can you say anal retentive??? Well it worked great. Any of you science types out there got a good tech. explanation of Black and Tans? C'ya! -Scott "Where's me God Damn Bagpipes and Plaid" Abene ################################################################ # ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT # # Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com> # # http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) # # OR # # http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/ (Brew-Rat-Chat) # # "Get off your dead ass and brew" # # "If beer is liquid bread, maybe bread is solid beer" # ################################################################ Return to table of contents
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> Subject: bathroom scale Rick wrote: >George, you should report these jokers to your state's Department of >Commerce's division of weights and measures. It is illegal in all 50 >states to use a spring-based uncompensated scale like a bathroom scale >for retail trade..... These people are perpetrating retail fraud on their >unwitting customers. Just like when I order a pint at a brewpub and I get 12 ounces in a drink-mixing glass.... - Bryan grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu Nashville, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:32:27 -0500 From: "Joel Plutchak" <joel at bolt.atmos.uiuc.edu> Subject: First Notice: Boneyard Brew-Off, Champaign-Urbana Announcing the 3rd Annual B.U.Z.Z. Boneyard Brew-Off Brewers, start your kettles! Judges, mark your calendars! The Boneyard Union of Zymurgical Zealots (B.U.Z.Z.) is organizing our third annual homebrew competition. The competition is sanctioned by the American Homebrewers Association (AHA) and the Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP), and is registered as a Midwest Homebrewer of the Year event. When: Saturday, June 14, 1997 What: Any homebrewed beer or mead. For purposes of this competition, "homebrewed" is defined as any beer not brewed in, by, or for commercial facilities or organizations. Brew-on-Premises shops are considered to be commercial facilities. Where: The address to which entries should be sent will be posted in May. Entries: Standard AHA 1997 Style Guidelines for beer and mead will be used to judge entries; no sake or cider will be judged. Categories may be combined or collapsed at the discretion of the competition staff, though every attempt will be made to award ribbons in each category. Additional special category: No One Gets Out Alive High Gravity Brew-Off Sole Requirement: Starting gravity over 1.070. Entries will be judged strictly on potency and overall drinkability. Winner of this category will not be eligible for Best of Show, but will receive a special trophy. *** PLEASE NOTE: Entries accepted May 27 through June 9, 1997 ONLY! *** Walk-ins allowed with prior notice if entry forms are received during the above period. On-line entry forms and further shipping instructions will appear here and at at <http://starfire.ne.uiuc.edu/buzz/contest3.html> in early May. Fee: $5 per entry; $4 per entry for four or more per brewer. 2 bottles per entry; standard AHA bottle requirements apply: 10 - 14 ounce, crown capped, plain brown or green glass with no raised lettering or other distinguishing marks. Sponsors ======== The B.U.Z.Z. would like to thank the following sponsor(s): * Picadilly Beverage Shops, Champaign IL * Two Brothers Brewing Company, Warrenville IL For more information about becoming a sponsor, contact the Competition Organizer. Judges welcome! We plan a raffle, Frdiay evening gathering, dinner Saturday evening, and all the usual B.U.Z.Z. festivities. Please contact the Judge Director or Competition Organizer for more details. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Organizer: Registrar: Joel Plutchak Daniel Juliano email: plutchak at uiuc.edu email: dan at starfire.ne.uiuc.edu 916 W. Charles Street Champaign IL 61821 (217) 359-4931 (eves & wkends) <=== preferred (217) 333-8132 (M-F, 8am-4pm) Judge Director: Troy Jesse email: tjesse at students.uiuc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:07:53 -0700 From: "Layne" <wetpetz at oberon.ark.com> Subject: Grain analysis Hey folks, I was glad to see the grain analysis post Steve Alexander put on the list as I have some questions about some of the information I was sent on the grain I just bought. I'm totally new to using grain as I have only done extract brews so far and I would like to use the grain I have for partial mash brews. This grain is from Canada Malting Co., Sask. 2-row pale. This is what I was sent; 81.5% Extract DFG 4.0% Moisture FAN 11.5% (What does FAN stand for?) % Protein Soluble 42 - 44% (What does this mean?) ASBC 1.5 - 1.7 (EBC 2.8 - 3.3) (What is color in Lovibond?) Dias. Power 120 I plan on using this grain for partial mashes with oats, wheat, or by itself for several types of grain. I paid $12 Canadian for 11 pounds (5Kg). ($8.60US). If someone has a way to convert EBC or ASBC to Lovibond I would love to have the formula. There was no information on Alpha Amylase. What does F/C and S/T refer to as posted in Steve's analysis information? TIA Layne Rossi wetpetz at oberon.ark.com Campbell River, BC I wonder how many folks in the brewing hobby entered "Boat Race" drinking contests back in College/High School? *********************************************************** To try and fail is better than failing because we didn't try! *********************************************************** Return to table of contents