HOMEBREW Digest #2488 Wed 20 August 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  A-B/Seaworld-Ohio/what to drink in NE Ohio (Steve Alexander)
  Dorky Guinness Joke (John Goldthwaite)
  Hop backs (Darrell)
  entry fee for commercially run HB contests (dbrigham)
  RE: Chocolate in beer (George De Piro)
  Kidney Stones, Gout and Stout - pt1 (Steve Alexander)
  Off taste -- third batch is a charm ? (Richard Levenberg)
  Airstones in kegs (Guy Mason)
  Grades of CO2 (Darrell)
  p-decoction ("Rich, Charles")
  Specific Gravity contribution of fruit HBD 2485 ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  RE: A-B American Hop Ale / Alcohol Question ("Verbal Blakey")
  Kidney Stones, Gout and Stout - pt 2 (Steve Alexander)
  Temperature for fermenting weizen (John Rezabek)
  plambic, 16 ounces (Paul Niebergall)
  Potatoe wine and the dangers of wood alcool ("Jacques Gauthier")
  How can I make a maltmill??? (Tom Krivec)
  HBD Delivery (Paul Niebergall)
  overnight mash/Dave Line (John D Elsworth)
  5l mini-kegs:  summary on web site (Jim Graham)
  Florida and the "b" word (AlannnnT)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:27:50 +0000 From: Steve Alexander <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: A-B/Seaworld-Ohio/what to drink in NE Ohio Arnold J. Neitzke writes about the Anheuser-Busch 'Beer School' at Seaworld Ohio... >When it came time for the "fresh beer" sampling, they poured a bud in one >cup and a "old" bud in another cup, I guess I wouldn't make a very good >beer judge, because I didn't taste any difference. One of the financial magazines, Forbes, had an interview article with August Busch the 4th in the past year. During the interview the reporter was also presented with a fresh and an old A-B product to taste, he preferred the older beer! >The reason for using beechwood aging, is that the yeast clings to the >curled wood chips, exposing more beer to the yeast, allowing for a faster >aging process of 24 days. Ahh yes, the traditional 24 day lagering period - no wonder it's called the 'King of Beers'. It's so easy to confuse 'Bud' with the Czech product of the same name (read dripping sarcasm here). >Of course he had to slam the micro's because they do ales which are >easier to do , even though he had a pale ALE sitting on the table, from a >micro! An article last year in Barron's (another financial rag) indicated that A-B was pushing their distributors very hard to not carry other brewers' products, particularly micros other than Redhook, which has an A-B affiliation. This is all very sad. A-B certainly has the commercial brewing science down to an art, employing some of the worlds finest brewing scientists, and they certainly have the means to produce truly wonderful beers. Instead of taking the battle to the tastebuds of the consumer they instead choose to 'dump' on their successful competition and block the distribution channels and purposely confuse consumers about the causes of 'skunkiness' in beer via their TV ads. How pathetic. The real problem at A-B is that even their new mega-micro clone beer products, like the pale ale mentioned, are targeted at a mass audience - in other words no one. I somehow doubt that the guys(or gals) who originally developed Kindl Weiss, Celis White, Duvel, Spaten Ur-Marzen, Grant's IPA or, for a closer-to-home example, Rob Moline's recent Barleywine went to the malls to performs consumer taste tests and feedback sessions before releasing their products. Instead, one brewer with some insight, experience and vision made some critical choices and some incremental improvements to produce a beverage with true character. 'Nuff said, A-B's an easy target on this forum. >So if your on the east side of Ohio and want to see some rather large >fish :), take the 30 minutes for some mild amusement, and get a certified >beermaster certificate, I got mine :) My office is 10 minutes from Seaworld-Ohio, but I somehow doubt that I'll make the 'Beermaster' re-education camp. If you're in North-East Ohio my first suggestion would be to include a stop by the Great Lakes Brewing Company for some of their award winning ales, especially their superb 'Edmund Fitzgerald Porter' - just west of the 'West Side Market' in Cleveland, maybe 25 minutes from Seaworld but well worth the trip. Liberty Brewing, Crooked River(micro/no pub) and Lift Bridge are other area micros well worth a try. There is a lot to do in Northeast Ohio besides Seaworld, but I won't bore the HBD collective. sorry for the rant - just had to, Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:08:03 -0400 (EDT) From: ir358 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John Goldthwaite) Subject: Dorky Guinness Joke One day an Englishman, (John) a Scot, (Ian) and an Irishman (Bono) walked into a pub together. They each proceeded to order a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints, and were stuck in the thick head. The Englishman pushed his beer from him in disgust. The Scot fished the offending fly out of his beer and continued drinking it as if nothing had happened. The Irishman too, picked the fly out of his drink, held it out over the beer and then started yelling, "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT YOU BASTARD!" I've got to pass this experience along to all the Stout lovers. Recently was catching the Jazz Mandolin Project and a friend bought me a pub draught. This is the first time I had tried one of the newfangled cans. To tell the truth, it was awful. No mouthfeel,no roasted anything, watery and lame. It had some hop bitterness, but that was it. I assume this is due to the Americanization factor, but I sure wish the folks at Guinness would just send us their original Irish formulation instead of the weak stuff I tried. Hell, my extract clone put this stuff to shame. Has anyone else had this experience, or did I just get clunker? Really, if there had been a fly around, I woulda held him up and forced the rest of my glass down his little throat. Hasta Lumbago people. JG Gumby. - -- "Gonna drink all day, gonna rock all night, The law come to getcha if you don't walk right..."[Garcia/Hunter] Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:18:32 -0600 From: Darrell <darrell at montrose.net> Subject: Hop backs James R. Layton writes: "Can anyone propose a better term for one or the other so that we all understand what is meant without further explanation?" How about a Hop Back for the device to separate hops from the boiled wort (I believe that is the original meaning), and "Infusion Hopping" for the process of "infusing" a boiled wort with unboiled hops (or would you be infusing the hops with the wort?). Whatever the case, I think it's appropriate. Webster's definition of "infuse" suits this to a "T". - -- Darrell Garton Montrose, CO Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 97 15:18:42 EST From: dbrigham at nsf.gov Subject: entry fee for commercially run HB contests There is a local (Northern Virginia) chain of large (read *GIANT*) wine/beer outlet stores called Total Beverage. Not the best prices, but usually a very extensive collection of imported and microbrewed beer. Well just recently in local advertising they have a plug in for the '1st Annual Total Beverage Homebrew Contest'. The following category entries are listed: ALE, LAGER, PALE ALE, PILSNER, PORTER, STOUT, SPECIALTY/FRUIT & SPICE One entry per person per style. Recipe becomes property of Total Beverage. Judging: Six certified Master Brewers will rate the various styles of beer by the guidelines set forth by the American Homebrew Association. $25 entry fee. 1st Place - Gold Medal and $500 2nd Place - Silver Medal and $250 Overall Winner - Grand Champion - Platinum Plaque - $1000 ************************************************************ OK - I have some problems with this: - since when do those listed styles encompass all the styles in the AHA 'guidelines'? - does the recipe become the property of Total Beverage for every entry or only the winners? - if you add up the prize money you get $1750, divide that by $25 per entry and you only need 70 entries to pay for all the prize cash (and what - 4 more entries to pay for the plaque?) - so what do they need all the rest of the money for? Typically HB contests in this area bring far many more entries than 70. I'm used to club run contests, and paying less than $10 per entry. You'd think these folks would be able to cut an even better entry fee since they can provide the venue (very large stores). Does anyone else have experience with contests run by retailers/beer associated businesses? If so, does the advertising for this contest sound all that unusual? Thanks for letting me bend your (electronic) ear! Dana Brigham National Science Foundation dbrigham at nsf.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:28:29 -0700 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) Subject: RE: Chocolate in beer Hi all, Sam posted a question about brewing with chocolate. He described the horrible mess that he made in his kettle by doing a partial boil and using baker's chocolate. He wonders if a full boil and cocoa powder will change things for the better. I have used chocolate on several occasions, and have used solid, powdered, and "Dutched" powdered cocoa. I will summarize what I have learned: 1. Keep your hop rates VERY low and use a high mash temp or extract that is relatively unfermentable (Laaglander extra light comes to mind). The bitterness from the chocolate is VERY strong and unpleasantly clinging. You need a lot of sweetness to balance it. I would use no more than 2 AAU's of hops in a 5 gallon batch of beer with a SG around 1.055 or so. 2. Solid chocolate (ie, Baker's chocolate) is the messiest to work with, but the powders aren't all that much better! In all cases I have ended up with a thick layer of deep brown sludge in the fermenter. Just plan on losing a lot of beer at racking time, and rack carefully so as to avoid both the sludge on the bottom and the oil slick on the surface. On the bright side, you won't get all that much Kraeusen (if any), so you can fill the primary a bit higher than you normally would. Note that Dutched powder DID allow a Kraeusen to form, so don't over fill the carboy if using that. 3. Don't use sweetened chocolate: the sugars will ferment out completely and dry out the beer, accentuating the bitterness of the chocolate. 4. Baker's chocolate and regular cocoa powder are similar in the taste they give beer. Dutched cocoa is processed with alkali, which seems to mellow it a bit (it isn't quite as bitter as the other forms). I've never tried a partial boil when using chocolate, so I can't help you there. A full boil definitely wouldn't hurt, though. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:57:42 +0000 From: Steve Alexander <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Kidney Stones, Gout and Stout - pt1 Bob Sutton asks about kidney stones and beer. First off I don't have a medical background, nor am I a biochemist tho' I often play one on HBD. Use any of the information I supply only with concurrence from your physician. YMMV, objects in mirror may appear closer, all caveats apply. >When the urologist stopped by to check on my >progress, he stated that I should increase my >fluid intake to help flush these pesky buggers >from my system. Gee - I thought - a nobrainer - >until he passed on the NIH recommendations to >reduce BEER intake if your predisposed to kidney >stones (whatever that means). >Well I can easily deal with the reduction of >asparagus, collards and rhubarb in my diet... Avoid sorrel too!! Lots of oxalic acid. >but BEER? >It seems to me the NIH has taken a wrong turn >somewhere. For you chemists out there, kidney >stones are typically formed from calcium >oxalate. Since I haven't brewed with oxalic acid >- and my calcium hardness is no worse that >drinking water in many parts of the world - I'm >puzzled by the reasons to reduce beer intake >maybe the NIH was thinking "Bud"). Harrison's 'Principles of Internal Medicine,' a standard medical reference notes a number of causes for kidney stones. Most stones are calcium oxalate, 30% are associated with elevated calcium in the urine that may be a familial trait or due to several specific illnesses, elevated oxalate levels are rare. More commonly high uric acid levels cause the precipitation of calcium oxalate. Less often stones are uric acid (sodium urate actually) and this is also due to high uric acid levels in urine. I've been looking at this same problem lately since my brother was recently diagnosed with gout, the painful formation of uric acid crystals in the joints due to excess uric acid levels. Several other HBD questions related to gout have come up in the past few years. The root of all of these problems is excess uric acid, or hyperuricemia. Uric acid is the normal breakdown product of purines that we eat and the ones that our bodies create. The purines are the nucleic acid bases adenine and guanine. Very nearly 50% of the bases of all RNA and DNA are purines. Excess uric acid (3.5-7 mg/dL is normal level for males) can have a number of causes. Hyperuricemia affects about 3 per 1000 humans. Only a small subset of this 0.3% have problems (0.015% of the pop gets gout for example). Some less likely causes include impaired renal function, therefore lower uric excretion rates which cause the increase. Various genetic glycogen storage defects can cause hyperuricemia - apparently prolonged hypoglycemia causes the accumulation of organic acids (like lactate) which interferes with kidney function in eliminating uric acid. Serum acidosis from other causes can create the same problem. Prolonged starvation - the same. Excess nucleic acid degradation from several sources can be a cause - so chemotherapy and some forms of cancer can elevate uric acid levels. Excess purine synthesis by your own body, and subsequent catabolism of the excess purine into uric acid is the most likely cause in an otherwise healthy individual. There are several common minor genetic defects that can cause this. To make a long story short, there are three probable defects. One of two distinct enzymes involved in producing purine precursors, for some reason, cannot be properly inhibited, so your system produces too much purine. The excess must be degraded into uric acid for elimination. Alternatively a salvage enzyme is underactive and the excess substrate level of 5-phospho-a-d-ribosyl-1pyrophosphate (PRPP) causes an increase in the activity of the purine generating enzymes again. Avoiding purine rich foods is the recommendation . Most organ meats such as liver, sweetbreads(thymus), brain and also anchovies (another good reason to hate anchovies) are on the "don't" list. Milk is OK, it apparently contains an enzyme that degrades some of the purines. It surprises me, but I'm told that eggs are OK. I would have expected a lot of RNA/DNA in the yolk. I don't know what else constitutes a low-purine diet, but avoiding heaps of RNA/DNA is the point. Looks like Bob has a good excuse to avoid liver and asparagus! more ... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:40:10 -0700 From: Richard Levenberg <richardl at Adobe.COM> Subject: Off taste -- third batch is a charm ? Fellow brewers, Hello and sorry in advance for the long post. I am very new to this and only have two brews under my belt. I love the hobby ( and the beer ) though and have been lurking on this mailing list since Nov '96. My first brew was a total flop. I still dont know for sure but I got the yeast from a brewery down the street from where I work and I think the yeast/trub mixture was so hoppy that it blew the bitterness scale to the point of undrinkability. I threw it all out save two bottles if anyone is interested in testing my theory. It also had an off taste that I will talk about. My next brew was a batch from TNJOHB and I way underdid the hops out of fear. The batch came out pretty good with absolutely no hop signature ( I will be less cautious next time ) but still had this strange aftertaste. My new theory is that the aftertaste is from high fermentation temperatures ( I live in Concord, CA and couldnt get the brews below 75 in most cases ). Both brews fermented fast and furious for about three days and carbonated well in the bottle. I dont think I had any infections ( no clear signs ). My question is there a good way to taste the extremes of the tastes that an off beer will have ( without poisoning yourself ) without becoming a judge. One of my early theories about the first beer was chlorophenols but I found that Vicks Throat Spray, which I absolutely cannot stand, contains phenol, smells like phenol and tastes like phenol. The first brew was NOT contaminated with phenols. I am looking for something like this for all the tastes a beer could have esp. high fermentation temperature examples. CP says high fermentation could create winey, clovely like flavors and my mind says yeah thats right, winey and clovey, but I cant really say. I know what I like but there is no way for me to equate the description of problems in books and FAQs with the actual smell and taste of problems unless I have smelled and tasted an example ( like Vicks ). In hopes that my theory is right, my wife bought me a used refrigerator that I am going to use for the next brew ( with a refrigerator controller ) to keep it at 65 degrees. At least I will know the difference between beer fermented at 78 degrees and beer fermented at 65 degrees. TIA. richardl Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:44:18 -0400 From: Guy Mason <guy at adra.com> Subject: Airstones in kegs Greetings, I'd like to hear from anyone out there that uses an airstone to carbonate their kegged beer. How do you set it up? Is it worth the money? Easy to use? etc. Thanks - -- guy Some people look at the world around them and say "Why" I look at the world around me and say "Huh?" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:16:32 -0600 From: Darrell <darrell at montrose.net> Subject: Grades of CO2 There have been a number of questions regarding "Is all CO2 created equal?" Here's what I know: Bottom line: CO2 is CO2. The only differences in the gas industry that I know of are Medical Grade CO2 and Ultra High Purity CO2 for the semiconductor industry. These two grades of gas are simply tested for purity, but typically come from the same source that the beverage/welding/industrial grade comes from. This is usually the case with Argon, Nitrogen, and Oxygen as well. Industrial grade oxygen and Medical grade oxygen cylinders both get filled from the same bulk liquid tank. The grading is simply done as a test on the gas in the cylinder to ensure its purity. Typically, when a high grade of gas is required, one uses a cryogenic tank, and pulls the vapor off the top of the tank, ensuring a very high degree of purity. Unlike gases such as nitrogen and oxygen, CO2 is a liquefied gas in the cylinder. When you use your CO2, you are getting it from a liquid source -- very pure, unless your cylinder has become contaminated by suck back from a bank, or some other problem (fairly common...). I know of no "lubrication", or other such treatments to CO2 for beverage or fire extinguisher use, as one poster surmised. When a distributor asks if it is for beverage, I would assume he is either curious, or checking to make sure that it isn't for medical use, since that is the only use that would require any type of certification. There is noise that the FDA may eventually impose some sort of "food grade" certification for CO2 used for food and beverage , but currently, I can find no such requirement. By the way, should such a "food grade" certification become required, the cost of your CO2 would surely increase. However, since there is no difference in the gas, just the certification, if you are not using the gas in a commercial application, you can buy "welding grade" and do whatever you d at #!m well please with it!! (Emphasis on the "not in a commercial application"!!!) FDA regulates commercial applications, not what you cook in your kitchen for your own family. - -- Darrell Garton Montrose, CO Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:26:14 -0700 From: "Rich, Charles" <CRich at saros.com> Subject: p-decoction A couple of people have asked how I go about p-cooking the first runnings. Since there is potential here for a terrific mess, not to mention harm, I'd recommend that anyone contemplating it should be well acquainted with how to use their cooker/canner first. Don't let this be your first excursion into pressure brewing. If you're just beginning, try canning some jars of sweet wort for yeast starters until you're comfortable with how your canner works. Be sure to taste one to see what flavors develop. When I p-cook the first runnings I actually fill the cooker directly, leaving about a gallon of headspace. The riskiest part is during the ramp to boiling since the release valve is open and a bubbling boil can occur which could foul it. I bring it to boiling carefully so as not to bubble much, and let it vent steam to evacuate the air in the headspace. This is standard practice for canning in general. After about five minutes of venting I throw the release and pressure begins to build immediately. Under pressure there is no bubbling and the risk of fouling drops. Also, since very little heat is needed for pressure cooking the wort doesn't scorch even though it's in contact with the heating surface. Cooking grains is a different story. They must be covered, either with a piece of foil, or as I do it, in their own separate vessel with lid, inside the canner. This double boiler approach also guarantees that there will be no scorching as could occur if they were placed directly inside the cooker; my main reason for it. The p-cooker I use is well built and maintained and has good safety features. I'm very comfortable using it as a tool and know how it behaves in use, but I respect steam too much to get lax about it. The airspace evacuation stage is the one to pay the utmost attention to. I'm not sure how kitchen pressure cookers with jiggling weights would work, since during their intermittent hisses they let the pressure drop a little, possibly enough to foam up which could lift hotbreak into the vent. If one uses these I'd recommend a generous headspace to start with. In an earlier post I'd stated that one would reduce b-glucans (gums) with a peptidase rest. Erase that, please. Nail them with a rest around 95-100F. Regards, Charles Rich (Seattle, USA) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:45:27 -0700 From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com> Subject: Specific Gravity contribution of fruit HBD 2485 Brian asked about specific gravity from fruit: There's a page at the Brewery in the library called Sugar and Acid Content in Fruit which can be of some help. When I copied it for my notebook more than a year ago it was at http://alpha.rollanet.org/library/sugacid.html. This has doubtless changed with the Brewery move. This gives percent sugar, you can back calculate how much in the fruit you will add, and figure out what the contribution will be. For instance, I made a mead with 11 lbs of blackberries at 8% sugar, in a 3 gallon batch, this is .9 lbs total sugar from the fruit, about .29 lbs/gal at 46 points/lb/gal (for sucrose), about 15 points contribution. Very approximate, but you can see it takes a lot of fruit to make much contribution to gravity. Most fruit sugars are also highly fermentable (mainly sucrose and fructose), so won't leave much sweetness. The end result is that you are left with the flavor essence of the fruit with little or none of the sweetness which is a lot of the perception we have of fruit flavors - if you want fruit beer to taste like one perceives fruit to taste, you need to leave non-fermentable dextrins, ferment at very high gravities to leave some sugar unfermented due to yeast "tiring out", or pasteurize before fermentation is complete. I've yet to succeed at making a fruit beer which tastes like fruit to me - my attempts have tasted good, but not like what I think fruit tastes like. A little off the subject at the end, here, but hopefully still useful to you. BTW, the mead is delicious. -Grant Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei Des Moines, Washington Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 21:17:22 -0500 From: "Verbal Blakey" <blakey at fgi.net> Subject: RE: A-B American Hop Ale / Alcohol Question Mark Rose wrote about A-B American Hop Ale: > Was this a trial offering of a beer for marketing purposes? Or, does anyone > know anything about this beer? I believe this beer has been rolled out nationally, but it may only be available on tap. Information on all A-B specialty beers is available at //www.hopnotes.com. - --------------- I have a question concerning calculating alcohol content. I was reviewing Kent Tracy's Alcohol and Calorie Calculation Table at //realbeer.com/brewery/infobase/AlcCalTables.html, which lists % alcohol as a function of two variables, OG and FG. However, FG is usually measured after fermentation is complete and before priming. Wouldn't the yeast produce additional alcohol as they worked on the priming sugar to carbonate during bottling? Seems like this should factor into the equation somehow. Or, is the table calculated assuming you will add 3/4 cup priming sugar per 5 gallons? Thanks. Mike Blakey "Beer is the answer. What was the question?" Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:13:19 +0000 From: Steve Alexander <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Kidney Stones, Gout and Stout - pt 2 Hyperuricemia - Why is beer a problem ? Barley is about 0.2% to 0.3% nucleic acid by weight, malt is about 0.18% by weight. Seeds have a lot of RNA/DNA. During malting and mashing the DNA and RNA are largely depolymerised and released into solution. At least 95% of the nucleic acids are soluabilized in mashing. About 6% of the nitrogen in wort is from the purines. This means that 'normal' wort might contain 15 to 20 mg/dL of purine bases and result in very nearly the same level of uric acid added to urine - several times the desirable level!! To make matters worse, yeast are chock full of RNA and so any residual yeast will add purines to the beer. Here's the good news, yeast can consume the purine free bases (adenine and gaunine) in wort and so fermentation and careful removal of yeast can decrease the purine levels of beer. The bad news is that yeast cannot consume the nucleosides of purine (the base with an sugar attached). The goal is clear, to brew a wort with minimal nucleosidic purinals and then to get maximum consumption of the purinal free bases by the yeast. This should leave a beer with minimal purines. 'Malting and Brewing Science' states that "Highly kilned malts yield worts containing a higher proportion of nucleosides [base-sugar] than worts from moderately kilned malts, which are richer in free bases. In neither type of wort are nucleotides [sugar-base-phosphate] present. Thus it is concluded that [...] nucleosidases may be inactivated in kilning." In other words all the base compounds are dephosphorylated but the enzyme responsible for the producing free bases guanine and adenine are denatured in highly kilned malts. Highly kilned malts here doesn't just mean dark malts. Instead British 'pale ale' malts are considered to be highly kilned because after drying at a lower temperature they are 'kilned off' at a temperature of about 120C, about 20C higher than German and American lager or pale malts. A 'solution' might be to always include a significant portion of low kilned malt and perform an extended 'nucleosidic' mash rest then provide an optimal yeast growth environment. The enzymes from the lager malt portion can thus convert the nucleosides into free bases, and the yeast can (hopefully) use up the free bases in the growth phase. I need to do some more research on the uptake of free bases by yeast - right now I'm basing this on a paragraph in M&BS. The identified enzyme involved in the conversion of purine nucleosides to free bases is Adenosine Ribohydrolase(EC3.2.2.7), which is not specific for adenosine, but can operate on Gaunosine as well.. This has been isolated from barley malt.. This enzyme has a pH optima around 5.0 and a temperature optima around 58C though a bit lower temperature might be desirable for a mash rest. There may be additional enzymes involved as well such as EC3.2.2.1 which operates best at higher pH (6-8) and around 40-45C (non barley source). - --- Experimental Guidelines for an *Attempt* at Low Purine Brewing -- 1/ Always include a good proportion of low kilned lager malt (say 25% to 50%). 2/ An unacidified mash-in rest around 40C *might* be useful. 3/ An acidified (normal mash acidity, pH 5.0 to 5.5) nucleosidase rest at 55C to 58C, perhaps 30min, longer when a lower percentage of lager malt is used. 4/ Provide a good yeast GROWTH environment so the yeast will use the free bases. This might include oxygenation, cold break inclusion and underpitching. This is somewhat counter to ideal brewing practice and may be a flavor compromise. 5/ Remove yeast scrupulously. (Clarify well, possibly filter, force carbonate rather than bottle condition) - -- Some Guesstimated Guidelines on Choosing Lower Purine Beers -- 1/ Avoid beers with a 'pale ale' base malt as opposed to 'pale' or 'lager' base malt. Select beers made with large proportions of low kilned malt. 1b/ Avoid beers made with all or mostly vienna or munich malt as the nucleosidase survival is doubtful. 2/ Avoid hefe-weizen and other yeast-cloudy beers. Select clear and well filtered beers, or at least carefully decant bottle conditioned beers. Avoid drinking yeast. 3/ Select beers that have seen a protein rest as this also degrades nucleosides. 4/ Lower SG beers start out with proportionately lower initial purine levels in the wort. Drink accordingly. I suspect that all commercial beers of Great Britain and Ireland, and their more authentic domestic clones are on the bad list. Marzens and Hefe-weizens are on the bad list. Pilseners, most other lagers (except marzens), and domestic (US) ales are probably much better choices. - -- Does any know the current quantitative methods for measuring the purine bases, nucleoside and nucleotides? Can anyone supply more info on the utilization of free bases by brewing yeast (like is there a good means to induce it, inhibitors)? Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 13:05:18 -0400 From: John Rezabek <rezabeks at alpha.wcoil.com> Subject: Temperature for fermenting weizen Steve Jackson expresses concern about fermenting a weizen at 68 deg F as opposed to 64 as advised by maybe Ray Daniels. Are you aiming to make a traditional Bavarian Hefe-Weizen? From what I gather, the higher fermentation temperature will simply heighten the production of the characteristic banana / clove flavors. If you're using the Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen Yeast, or the Yeast Lab W51, I hardly think you can go wrong. Even my starters come out tasting like a Paulaner. Well, a warm flat Paulaner. Last year Russell Mast <ramst at fnbc.com> wrote: "Use the Weihenstephan Wyeast or a similar pure-strain wheat yeast. Ferment at lower temps (40-50) to emphasize phenols, higher (50-70) to emphasize esters, but expect plenty of both. (sp. 4-vinyl guiacol and isoamyl ester, aka clove and banana. 4-vg doesn't taste like cloves to me, but that's a side issue.)" These yeasts ferment vigorously for me (pitching at least a 2 liter starter) so I would expect even greater activity at 68 - 70 deg F. John Rezabek rezabeks at alpha.wcoil.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 13:44:08 -0500 From: Paul Niebergall <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: plambic, 16 ounces Home Brewers, A couple of thing have lead me to think I should try a plambic beer soon, so I had some questions. First - I found some bottles of Chapeau Fraises Lambic (Brewery De Troch Wambeek) on sale for half price. They had raspberry, strawberry, and peach left on the shelf, so I bought a few bottles of each. Believe it or not, they were marked with an expiration date that had long past (like a year ago), so they were on sale. Doesn?t this stuff get better with age?. Shouldn?t they have doubled the price instead of cutting it in half? Anyway, after tasting a few, I decided that it was the beer I wanted to make. My wife, who hates beer, even liked the stuff (O.K., so I told her it was a new brand of wine cooler). I would like to know if anyone out there considers the Chapeau brand to be good or bad, and why. Since it is the only kind of fruit flavored lambic I have tried, and I now have half a case of the stuff, It?s probably going to be what I judge my plambic against. My in-laws grow lots of raspberries. Since it will be about this time next year when I will be able to get some more (hopefully about five pounds), I thought would start the plambic this month and then add the fresh raspberries next harvest season. Is this the right timing? Last fall, my kettle was boiling away and I realized I was short on hops (oops, should of checked the supply closet first). Luckily, the local liquor store just happen to have a display (meager as it was) of some basic home brew supplies. They had some pelletized Saaz hops which I purchased and ran home to my awaiting kettle. Unluckily, when I opened the package they were rotten. We?re talking rancid, total limburger cheese smell. Anyway I didn?t use them, and like all good homebrewers who never through anything away, I still have them. Is this really what I am supposed to use in my plambic? Is there a point when hops get too old? (It?s not like there?s maggots growing on them or anything, but they sure smell bad) The latest Zymurgy article suggests using Boon Gueuze for a starter culture to make a plambic. I checked my bottle store and they just happen to stock this brand. If anyone has tried to use Boon Gueuze for a starter, please let me know how it turned out. I am particularly interested in whether I would have to add any pure cultures of bacteria and or yeast in addition to the starter (I?ve heard this could make my lambic one-dimensional because the organisms in the Boon Gueuze bottle would be only the ?late to take hold bugs?) Someone wrote in the last Fridays HBD that 16 fluid ounces of water does not equal a pound. Well it?s pretty darn close. Water weights about 8.32 pounds per gallon (at room temperature, at sea level, not during a hurricane, blah, blah, blah). Well that comes out to about 1.04 ounces (that?s weight or force ounces) per fluid ounce (volume ounces). So if you have 16 fluid ounces of water, it weights about 1.04 pounds. Unless you have a calibrated digital scale ($100 +), you ain?t going to notice that extra 4 one-hundredths of a pound. And you thought English units of measure don?t work out as neatly as the metric system. Sorry for the bandwidth and TIA Paul Niebergall (pnieb at burnsmcd.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 18:51:12 -0400 From: "Jacques Gauthier" <Jacquesg at CAM.ORG> Subject: Potatoe wine and the dangers of wood alcool Hello everyone, While reading a potatoe wine recipe I came upon this part: "Potatoes are not by themselves very suitable for winemaking since they lack flavour and produce a portion of Wood Alcool. Potatoes are in fact better used in conjunction with other ingredients... The part that conserns me is the mention of wood alcohol. When I was in Chemistry in College (over 10 years ago) I recall my teacher mentionning that some chemists would sometimes distill comestible alcohol from wood alcohol but that the distillation had to be done at an exact temperature. To do otherwise would put a quantity of wood alcohol in the resulting alcohol which can cause blindness. Now, preferably, I wouldn't want to have any wood alcohol in my wines. Can someone tell me what causes the potatoe to produce wood alcohol ? Are there other fruits/vegetables/grains which have a similar danger of producing wood alcohol ? (I find the process of wine/beer making interesting however I don't want to lose my sight over it). Jacques G. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:41:15 +0200 From: Tom Krivec <Thomas.Krivec at grz08u.unileoben.ac.at> Subject: How can I make a maltmill??? I have been in homebrewing for about two years now. I always did all grian batches, but always had problems with grinding the malt. So I am thinking about making a maltmill by myself. My question is: has anyone out there in brewing-space ever made a maltmill? I could need any info about mills & how to construct them. Please mail privat: Thomas.Krivec at unileoben.ac.at Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 10:44:31 -0500 From: Paul Niebergall <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: HBD Delivery Why doesn't the HBD get delivered on the weekends? Saturday morning I posted an artical and noticed there was 73 articals already "in the que". It's now Sunday and the current HBD is still stuck on Friday. I've noticed that this has been a problem for over three weekends know. What's the deal? Paul Niebergall Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 13:12:27 -0400 From: elsworth at connix.com (John D Elsworth) Subject: overnight mash/Dave Line Last week a question was posted about mash times, specifically why a shorter mash time was not adequate if starch conversion had apparently reached completion. I am interested in the answer to this, and suspect that the answer maybe that some of the other reactions that are occurring are necessary or desirable. However, I would like to pose the opposite question to the collective, that is: is it OK to mash much longer if it is convenient? I am thinking of the overnight mashes that Dave Line reported (in his books written in the 70's) that he used for most of his brews. With this schedule all reactions would be complete, so what is the disadvantage, if it helps you by being able to start a mash before work, or before bed, and finishing the other step later. Of course, the grain bed temperature will have dropped to about room temperature (unless heat is applied during your absence), and this will make it necessary to elevate the temperature of the sparge more than usual. I grew up and started brewing in England, and I remember that Dave Line's books came as a bit of a revelation to most brewers, who had been extract brewing and never imagined all grain mashing as something to be done at home. One of my other books from that era (by W.H.T. Tayleur) prefaced a brief description of how to mash at home by quoting Mr. Punch's famous "advice to those about to marry - don't". Another historical note that may be of interest, and the reason why Dave Line in Britain was able to blaze this trail, is that home-brewing has always been legal in the U.K., although from 1880-1963 home brewers were required to take out an annual licence (for 1 pound) and record all mash, sugar and cereals used. These records were subject to scrutiny by inspectors who charged a duty on the amount of beer that could have been made from these starting ingredients. This system was abolished in 1963 and caused an immediated increase in home-brewing. John Elsworth elsworth at connix.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 13:00:11 -0600 (CDT) From: Jim Graham <jim at n5ial.gnt.com> Subject: 5l mini-kegs: summary on web site First off, my apologies for the delay in getting this out. First, I wanted to make sure I'd gotten all the replies. Then, I wanted to make the summary something more...like a web page that, hopefully, will be a good reference site some day. Then I ended up so busy I didn't have much time to do any of the above.... :-( Anyways, it's past time to make the bits that are done available. You can get the summary of responses to my questions, as well as bits I pulled from a few other issues of the HBD, at http://www.gnt.net/~n5ial/mini-kegs.html Remember, this is *NOT FINISHED*. If you find any typos, HTML errors (I'm not an HTML guru!), etc., please let me know. I'll try to work on it more as I have more to add, and more time to polish it up. Btw, if anyone doesn't have direct Internet access, and/or just doesn't have a web browser, let me know and I can send you an e-mail copy. Later, --jim - -- 73 DE N5IAL (/4) MiSTie #49997 < Running Linux 2.0.21 > jim at n5ial.gnt.net || j.graham at ieee.org ICBM / Hurricane: 30.39735N 86.60439W Jack: DS B+Bd+O+W Y+G 1 Y L W C+ I+++ A++ S V+ F- Q++ P++ PA PL-- SC++++ Shadow: DS B+C Y+B 1 Y L++ W+ C+ I+++ A++ S+ V-- F+++ Q++ P++ PA++ PL+ SC++++ Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 18:06:21 -0400 (EDT) From: AlannnnT at aol.com Subject: Florida and the "b" word Just in time to keep the thread from dying: Vacationing in the Florida Keys last week I saw an item on the Miami news report. It seems a man was stricken with Botulism and nearly died. No apparent cause was discovered. Should we call the hospital and see if the man is a homebrewer? Anyone living in Florida who sees a follow up report might want to post a source of the virus if one is mentioned. My two cents worth.- While the chance of getting sick from botulism may be less than the chance of winning the lotery, if you do infect yourself, your chance of dying from it may exceed 20%. I don't do anything that has a one in five chance of killing me. Return to table of contents
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