HOMEBREW Digest #2849 Wed 14 October 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Spray on Sanitizer (Badger Roullett)
  BIG Carboys ("silent bob")
  240 volt gfci's (AlannnnT)
  RE: source for CO2 cylinders (Robert Arguello)
  lactic vs. phosphoric acid (Al Korzonas)
  1998 HBD Name-Dropping Award (Al Korzonas)
  Re: Polder Thermoprobes (Robert Arguello)
  ireks ("Bayard W. Wenzel")
  Re: Pewter... (Tim Anderson)
  Liquor to Grist Ratio (Troy Hager)
  drilled stoppers (Scott Murman)
  Al K's Book, pewter ("Rick Wood")
  Re: Censorhip/Pumpkin Beer (Scott Murman)
  No hot break (Jim English)
  240V GFCI, grounding (fridge)
  spam!! ("Dave Olson")
  Re: Brewer's Gold hops (Gary H Nazelrod)
  Re: Brewer's Gold hops (Jeff Renner)
  Clarification (Steve Jackson)
  R.I.P -- Westchester Brewing Co; White Plains, NY (John Biggins)
  Fruit Flies, stop the stoppers (Paul Niebergall)
  Wyeast 2565 - Excessively Slow? (Charley Burns)
  Queen of Beer - Competition Results (Charley Burns)
  Hops aroma and flavour problems (Eric Reimer)
  240V (Jeremy Bergsman)
  co2 ("Spies, James")
  RE: Subject: 240V GFI ("Bonnell, Doug")
  Outatown, ("David R. Burley")
  Re: Fruit Flies ("John A. MacLaughlin")
  Olde Brew from Rampant Badger (Badger Roullett)
  RE: Source for keg parts (John Wilkinson)
  first wort hopping (Al Korzonas)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:13:19 -0700 From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com> Subject: Spray on Sanitizer Greetings, and Salutations... I was wondering if you could help me with a thought. What do people use a spray on, and use right away sanitizer? and what ratios? I know some people use this for quick sanitizing of funnels, taps onsite, etc. I have heard of bleach solutions, idofor solutions, etc. what ratios though? to be used in spray bottle. TIA, Badger *************************************************** Brander Roullett aka Badger Homepage: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger In the SCA: Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven "It had to be a linguistics professor who said that it's man's ability to use language that makes him the dominant species on the planet. That may be. But I think there's one other thing that separates us from animals. We aren't afraid of vacuum cleaners." --Jeff Stilson Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:13:47 PDT From: "silent bob" <holdenmcneil at hotmail.com> Subject: BIG Carboys Hey all, I saw the post mentioning BIG carboys (in my mind anythig greater than 7 gallons). If someone has a source of these I would be interested. Any thing to minimize the number of dishes to do! TIA Adam ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:23:12 EDT From: AlannnnT at aol.com Subject: 240 volt gfci's Doug wrote>> What concerns me is the lack of a ground leg on your standard 240V outlet here in the US. I know that for all intents the neutral leg is the same as ground, but is that good enough and are there GFI breakers available for 240V? Doug, The brand new codes for 240V dryer hookups in the US call for 4 wires, including a 'neutral' and a ground and the two 'hot' legs. So you could wire your heater with a new style 4 wire dryer outlet and plug. They are not expensive. This gives you two 'hots', a common and a ground. More importantly- the neutral wire you are talking about in the 3 wire 240 system is NOT a neutral. Only the 3 wire 120, or the 4 wire 240 has a neutral. Be careful! Three wire 240 is not the same as three wire 120. Both insulated wires in the 240 system carry current to the device, {if using romex} the bare wire is, of course, the ground. If using wire in conduit, you need to check which two wires are hot. The difference is sort of semantic, but you don't someone out there thinking that the "white" wire in the 240 box in their three wire dryer outlet is not always hot, 'cause it is. Best Brewing, Alan T Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:48:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com> Subject: RE: source for CO2 cylinders Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Scott Murman wrote: >I'm probably going to buy myself a keg setup for X-mas, and I was >wondering if there was a good source for CO2 cylinders and gauges. >I'm wondering about both $$ and safety issues (certification, etc.). I >can't imagine that there isn't a commercial outfit that specializes in >gas that could provide a new setup with all the safety checks for a >reasonable price. Anyone been down this road? Here's what I have going Scott.... I have an agreement with a local fire extinguisher service company. They provided me with a 50LB co2 tank and a 20 LB tank. I paid a $25.00 REFUNDABLE deposit for the tanks. I use the 50 lb tank until it is empty, then call the company for a full tank. It takes them a day or two to deliver the new 50 pounder and in the meantime, I use the 20 pound tank. When they deliver the full 50 pounder, I pay them only for the gas which comes to $19.00. When the 20 pounder finally gets empty, they replace that with a full one for $16.00. As you can see, the bigger the tank, the cheaper the gas! One benefit of this, (besides the obvious), is that you don't have to worry about certifications etc. The tanks belong to the fire extinguisher service folks and that is their worry, not mine or yours. Look in your local yellow pages under "Fire Extinguisher". I'll bet you can get a similar deal going, although you might not be able to get them to deliver the gas for free, I definitely lucked out there. You might have to take the cylinders in for replacement yourself. ******************************************************************** Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com> CORNY KEGS FOR SALE! $13.00 each http://www.calweb.com/~robertac/keg.htm ProMash Brewers' Software - http://www.calweb.com/~robertac/promash ******************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:10:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: lactic vs. phosphoric acid Scott writes (quoting me): >>Lactic acid is preferable to phosphoric (the other common acid used in >>the mashtun), actually. Both will lower pH, but calcium lactate is >formed >>when you add the former and calcium phosphate when you add the latter. >>Since calcium lactate is more soluble than calcium phosphate, you end >>up with more calcium in your wort (in the boiler and fermenter) when you >use >>lactic acid. This calcium is important for reducing oxalate haze and >>promoting yeast flocculation. > >Al, >This is the first time I've heard this. In fact, I'm sure I've read to >the contrary, although I can't recall where at the moment. If your mash >already has significant (or let's say sufficient) calcium, is it still >advantageous to use lactic acid? The reading I've done recommends >phosphoric acid as some phosphor compound (don't recall which, but I think >this is widely recognized) is beneficial as a yeast nutrient. My water is >high in calcium carbonate, which is the exact reason I need to acidify. >So, I'm already calcium-rich. What does lactic acid buy me? FWIW, I use >phosphoric acid now. I'm not a chemist, so I'll leave it to them to post on the actual reactions, but I do know that the result of adding lactic or phosphoric acids, if you have sufficient calcium in the mash/wort is that calcium lactate or calcium phosphate are formed. The latter is virtually insoluble in wort/beer and so it will flocculate out taking precious calcium out with it. I believe that those who have said that the phosphoric acid results in some yeast nutrient are probably not aware of the chemistry. As far as I know, given enough calcium, I don't believe any phosphate would be available for yeast nutrition. If you have just enough calcium, then yes, lactic acid will keep more of it in solution and less in precipitates than phosphoric. If you have an abundance of calcium, then I believe that whichever acid is cheaper may be better. However, there is the issue of two hydrogens versus three and the issue of varying concentrations (the lactic acid I get is 88% whereas the phosphoric is only 10%). Perhaps the chemists could comment on these also? Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:05:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: 1998 HBD Name-Dropping Award ...and the 1998 HBD Name-Dropping Award goes to (envelope please)... John Adams for "GABF: Trip Report" in which John name-dropped: 11 breweries, 8 bars and brewpubs, 25 people, and 15 commercial beers all in one post! Congratulations, John! ;^) Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:21:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com> Subject: Re: Polder Thermoprobes Duff Hickman wrote in part: >I also had one of these thermometer/timers start to give wacky readings >after 1 or 2 uses. I think the problem is that they are designed for use >in roasts, etc that are in the relatively dry environment of a heated oven. >Assuming that you have the same model as mine, the upper end of the probe >is just crimped onto the shielded wire and not sealed. >To test this theory and attempt to remedy the situation, I stuck the probe >into an oven and heated it to 300F to dry it out. >It appears to work OK now, but I don't think I'd advise a friend to buy one. Your theory is correct Duff. These probes are not sealed in any way beyond the crimp. The woven stainless steel mesh covering the lead is actually one of the conducters for the thermistor. Liquid getting past the crimp enters the body of the probe and creates havoc. The fix is to allow to dry for a number of days or you can force dry in a medium oven. PREVENTION: Starting 1 inch beyond the crimp and extending 12 inches along the wire, liberally coat the stainless mesh with silicon sealant, (the clear aquarium grade). Make the coating as smooth as possible. Allow to cure for a day or so then cover the silicon with shrink tubing. After this is accomplished the probe can be completely immersed without trouble. Robert A. ******************************************************************** Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com> CORNY KEGS FOR SALE! $13.00 each http://www.calweb.com/~robertac/keg.htm ProMash Brewers' Software - http://www.calweb.com/~robertac/promash ******************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:31:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bayard W. Wenzel" <biomorph at moloch.mse.tay.dec.com> Subject: ireks Al K. sez: >Rob writes: > >>Does anybody know where to find specifics, ie. malt analysis, on the Ireks >>line of malts. Although Vinotheque tells me that Ireks is a large >>maltster/grower, a brewing buddy and I find it strange that there is no >>info easily obtainable, such as on the WWW. > >Weyermann makes much (all?) of Ireks malt and as far as I know, the former >importer of Ireks (Crosby and Baker) has switched over to buying directly >from Weyermann, so I'm not sure if you can even get Ireks malt anymore >(you can still get their malt extract, I believe). i just called up vinotheque (you can get the phone number via www.vinotheque.net, why they're a .net is beyond me), and inquired a bit into the ireks situation. according to the nice fellow there: a.) ireks makes their own malt, and sells to weyerman b.) weyerman's is more highly modified than ireks; he recommended decoction mashing ireks for best results c.) he imports ireks directly, in 20 ton lots he even offered me lot specs! what a sweetheart. i suspect the proximity of vinotheque to crosby and baker may be significant- by offering variety, vinotheque can likely maintain market share against its (likely larger) competitor. best, bayard Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:29:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Anderson <timator at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pewter... I recently received a shiny new pewter beer mug as a gift from coworkers in the U.K. (And a wonderful gift it was. I never thought I'd drink beer out of something opaque, but this gets daily use). I no longer have the box it came in, but I do remember that it was made in Sheffield and it clearly stated that it was lead-free. tim == Please ignore the advertisement below. Thank you. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 02:28:57 -0700 From: Troy Hager <thager at bsd.k12.ca.us> Subject: Liquor to Grist Ratio Fellow brewers, Was reading up on stout in the Lewis book and he suggests using "a liquor-to-grist ratio of 2.5:1 to 3:1 ... for infusion mashing." Can anyone clarify this for me? I usually mash at about 1-1.5 qts. per lb. of grain. He doesn't state any units. I have noticed that most homebrew books and publications use qts:lbs. I'm confused. Private email is good. Thanks! -Troy Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:35:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> Subject: drilled stoppers I picked up a two-hole stopper for my ehrlenmeyer flask today at the local lab supply shop for the princely sum of US $0.40. I can't emphasize enough the usefulness of searching out a local lab supply house, and building a raport with them. I go to mine quite frequently, and they know me by name, and know I'm using the stuff for brewing. Flasks, stoppers, stir plates, pH strips, barb connectors, lab quality thermometers (for less than $5!!), test tubes, microscopes, brewing salts, etc. You get the idea. They have a whole storeload of stuff that we brewers use, it's cheaper than any other source, there's usually one in every decent-sized city, and they'll never turn away business. Or ..., you could spend $3, 30 min., and 5 ml of blood trying to bore through a stopper yourself. -SM- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:17:33 +1100 From: "Rick Wood" <thewoods at netpci.com> Subject: Al K's Book, pewter Hello All, I have been pestering Al K regarding the publication of his next book, Vol 2. He says not to expect it for a year or more. I for one am looking forward to it, as I enjoyed the Vol 1. Regarding the discussion of pewter: Antique Pewter is an alloy of Tin (>90%) and Lead. Obviously, this is not food grade. Modern Pewter may have Antimony, Copper, Cadmium as well as Tin (and Lead). Again, Pewters with Cadmium are not food grade. The Lead is used to give a dark color as well as to prevent pitting. Cadmium is used in increase the "polishability" of the product. Modern Food grade pewters contain Tin (~92%), Antimony (~8%) with maybe a percent of Copper. Antimony free Pewters may contain Silver, Bismuth and Copper as well as the predominant Tin. Lastly, there are some Aluminum Alloys which have the appearance of Pewter and are food grade. These may contain Silicon and Magnesium as well. The Aluminum "Pewter" is considered food grade. Regards, Rick Wood "Brewing on Guam" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 23:14:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> Subject: Re: Censorhip/Pumpkin Beer >> P.S. I have a list of topics and posters that I feel are a not >> sufficiently contributing to the S/N ratio. Who do I send it to for >> consideration? " > > I'm sorry, and please take me off your list! Anyone willing to tackle pumpkin beer will never be on any of my lists! Not that I would ever keep one in the first place. BTW Spencer T., it was a joke! Jeff Tonole, HBD lurker (hi Jeff you're on the HBD) and I made a pumpkin brew a few weeks back, and had a heck of a time (in both senses). I think Jeff is going to post a synopsis that makes him look good one of these days. > Topics: > Will more pumpkin give more "pumpkin flavor?" Uhh, yes. Unless you use a cucumber, and then you'll get more cucumber flavor. > Will more residual sweetness enhance the pumpkin flavor? I like to stick with plain pale ale malt and pumpkin. I like the orange color, and use the pumpkin as sort of a crystal malt. If you use crystal malt, you get more of a brown coloring. The problem becomes lautering. As you increase the percentage of pumpkin to get more flavor (we used 50%), you get a larger lauter headache. We tried rice hulls, but the pumpkin just laughed at them. > Am I the only one who makes beer INSIDE pumpkins? Someone here used the pumpkin to lauter in. Stuck a slotted copper manifold in the bottom of a XXX-large one, and mashed inside. Was that you? > Might I have extracted undesirables by including the pumpkin rind? Undesirables in pumpkin beer?! > Eric (Tryin' to sneak one by SM) Fouch Fat chance. -SM- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:17:58 -0400 From: Jim English <jimebob at mindspring.com> Subject: No hot break Brewed a Redhook ESB clone yesterday and got no hot break that I could see. This has happened before but I haven't kept thorough enough notes to be able to state categorically what the effects might have been on the afflicted brews. Shame on me, I found my thermometer was reading 3 degrees F low after I was done brewing! Never again! I've seen the light. Could the temperature problem (vis a vis mashing temp., sparge water temp) cause this situation? What can I look forward to as far as effects on my finished beer? I seem to lose too much heat out of my mashtun (cheap cooler with copper manifold) and so have relied on pulling a sort of decoction (liquid only), about 2 qts and heating it on the stove to 168-170F and adding it back in to try to raise/maintain the temp. during the mash. Sometimes I do that several times rather than thin out the mash too much. Comments? Let's talk brewing, it's that time of year. Let's leave the real technical treatises for the dog days of August. TIA JRE Duluth, GA. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:54:47 -0400 From: fridge at kalamazoo.net Subject: 240V GFCI, grounding Greetings folks, I had hoped to see a post from an electrician to help clarify the the 240V GFCI questions, but since questions continue, I'll see if I can shed some light on the subject. I'm not a licensed electrician although I have done a lot of electrical installation and troubleshooting related to industrial equipment. I also do a large amount of electrical/electronic control system design and construction as part of my current employment. It is true that the neutral conductor in both 120V and 240V circuits is connected to a terminal strip in the distribution panel that is physically grounded to the panel housing, as is the ground conductor. The panel is then grounded to a rod driven into the earth. Many 240V circuits have both neutral and ground conductors since the powered equipment needs 120V for controls or for other purposes. Many others don't use a neutral since the equipment requires only the 240V. A ground conductor is still required. The neutral conductor is part of the electrical current path and may be shared with other electrical devices. Any electrical resistance or opening of the ciruit in the neutral wiring path will place a voltage on the neutral conductor with respect to earth ground. If a person were to touch the neutral and earth ground, he/she becomes the ground conductor and will receive a shock. A separate ground conductor is connected between the panel ground terminal strip and the conductive chassis or housing of the connected equipment to carry off any stray voltage that may accumulate. Please ground *everything* in a brewing system. A plastic hot liquor tank with an ungrounded heating element creates a *very* dangerous situation. Any stray voltage will be conducted away by the person who touches the liquid contents of the vessel. I have no first-hand experience with 240V GFCI's. Ken Schwartz (Kenny Eddy), however, has done much with electric kettles and such and has stated that 240V GFCI's are available but are expensive. He has divided his circuitry into two 120V circuits and installed two 120V GFCI's. See his web site for further info and a wealth of related information. Try http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/ Any electricians lurking out there that can shed more light on the subject, please speak up. Hope this helps! Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo fridge at kalamazoo.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:15:05 -0500 From: "Dave Olson" <Dolson at metrosales.com> Subject: spam!! >Has anyone else recently been getting hit with more spam than usual? I'm >not on the web, and most of my mail is from HBD, MLD, and CLD, plus a few >family and friends. >Most of this unpalatable meat is from YAHOO origins. Any suggestions? I too have been recieving spam! I usually get mail related to advertising and marketing as that is my profession (my e-mail address has the word "sales" in it). I usually get an unsolicited mailing with a Yahoo domain. There is no way to unsubscribe. As far as I can see, by unsubscribing you are affirming the spammer that you recieved their mail and probably read it. I started recieving spam shortly after my first post. - --dave-- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:04:00 -0400 From: Gary_H_Nazelrod at tst.tracor.com (Gary H Nazelrod) Subject: Re: Brewer's Gold hops In HBD 2848 "Jay Krause" <krause at galis.com> asks: >A simple question I hope. I am having trouble finding Brewer's Gold hops >in any form. What would be a good substitute for this variety? I do not know what would be a good substitute. But Just Hops has them listed on the web at http://www.realbeer.com/hops/justhops.html. I do not know if they currently have them in stock. No affiliation, just a satisfied customer. Gary Nazelrod Silver Spring MD Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:12:54 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Brewer's Gold hops "Jay Krause" <krause at galis.com> asks: >A simple question I hope. I am having trouble finding Brewer's Gold hops in >any form. What would be a good substitute for this variety? In _Using Hops: The Complete Guide to Hops for the Craft Brewer_, Mark Garetz suggests substituting "Northern Brewer, Galena, or any other bittering hop to your liking." He also says that its aroma is "not highly regarded, but reasonably neutral in character." I think that flavor of boiling hops can come through even after a long boil, so you might get some differences. He says that Bullion shares the same wild Canadian ancestor as Brewer's Gold, so it might be a good choice, although its "High oil content means that aroma may come through stronger if boil times are short or when used in a very light lager." He also says that Galena was bred from open pollination of Brewer's Gold. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:03:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com> Subject: Clarification In HBD #2847 (Oct. 12, 1998), Bob Poirier wrote: >>>> PS - Regarding the concerns about censorship of the HBD, after reading all the posts to date on this issue, though I understand where Steve Jackson is coming from, I personally don't believe that the HBD is going to become a Nazi/communistic-like entity <snip> <<<< Just for clarification, that wasn't me. Aside from this, I haven't offered any comments regarding the now twin-headed "C-word" (Clinitest and censorship) debate. I have my opinions, but I'm keeping them to myself (my mother would be amazed). -Steve in Indianapolis _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:20:53 -0500 From: jbbiggin at mail.med.cornell.edu (John Biggins) Subject: R.I.P -- Westchester Brewing Co; White Plains, NY Well, the inevitable happened. The 1st Brewpub in Westchester County north of NYC, the Westchester Brewing CO (WBC) has gone belly up after months of financial difficulties. Even though the beer rapidly became sub-par & did not have many of the "staples" required for repeat business (a simple red, pale, etc..), it is still sad to see such a business depart. The good news is the far better Fireworks Brewery around the corner is still going, but I'm shy to say if its going strong. Whenever I go there at nights on weekends (I don't live in the area any more, so I can't vouch for attendence) it's sparsely populated. Perhaps they get good lunch business from the stock brokers in the surrounding area? Oh well...another brewpub bites da dust. RIP! BTW...I never did get my "free" mug after having my WBC preferred customer card swiped WAY more than the minimum amount. Didn't treat your regulars well...no wonder you went Chapter 11. But they had GREAT bourbon chicken wings! Wish I can get the recipe. ------------- John B. Biggins Cornell University Medical College 1233 York Ave; Apt 19D Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center New York, NY 10021 Graduate School of Medical Sciences (212)717-0158 Student -- Program in Pharmacology "Science, like Nature, must also be tamed With a view towards its preservation. Given the same state of integrity It will surely serve us well." -- Neil Peart; Natural Science (III) -- Permanent Waves Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:31:54 -0500 From: Paul Niebergall <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: Fruit Flies, stop the stoppers Allen W Senear makes some excellent points concerning fruit flies in beer: >Mike Maceyka replied: >>"Inocclulated it with bacteria: absolutely. Contaminated it, i.e. >>will this ruin my beer: yes, in all probability." {snip} >I believe that this experience once again reiterates one of the basic >rules of brewing: Although there are many things, especially >lapses in sanitation, that can ruin your beer, few of them will do so >every time; until you have irrefutable experimental evidence (ie >tasting) that your beer is definitely bad, don't despair or dump, it >may well be fine, or at least good enough for the uninvited house >guests who have printed up stationary with your address and phone >number on it. I recently had one of my early batches finally >transform itself after five months in the bottle from something I >could drink but with little enthusiasm into a pretty good beer >(unfortunately I drank over half the batch while it was still only in >the tolerable stage.) Allen has discovered a contradiction in thinking among HBD readers. Allow me to elaborate further. Let's think about this fruit fly thing from another angle. What if you took a fruit fly and dipped it in isopropanol to sterilize it (o.k., it is dead now, but forget about that for a moment). After sterilizing the fruit fly, rinse it in distilled water and then dip it into a tiny amount of frothy yeast starter that has been previously prepared. Now take the yeast coated fruit fly and place it in a carboy along with five gallons of your favorite boiled and cooled wort. How many people out there in HBD land would exclaim that I was crazy and that there is no way you can get any fermentation at all from less than a pin-head sized drop of yeast? However, what you have just done is inoculate your wort with probably a million times more yeast cells than the number of bacteria cells present on an average fruit fly. Why is it that we think that it takes nothing less than a couple of billion yeast cells to make a good batch of beer, and yet a few bacteria will absolutely ruin a batch of beer? Keep this sanity check in mind next time you are contemplating a couple of hundred dollars for a laminar flow hood, or a couple thousand dollars for an autoclave. Drilling stoppers: I think this is the next candidate for censorship. Why is there so much interest in this topic? Geez, just send me adollar bill (to cover postage) and your address, and I will send you a brand new, commercial quality, pre-drilled stopper for free. Please indicated what size you would like. Brew on, Paul Niebergall 10621 Oak Kansas City, MO 64114 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 98 07:52 PDT From: caburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns) Subject: Wyeast 2565 - Excessively Slow? Here's from Wyeast's web site: 2565 Kolsch yeast A hybrid of ale and lager characteristics. This strain develops excellent maltiness with subdued fruitiness, and a crisp finish. Ferments well at moderate temperatures. Flocculation low; apparent attenuation 73-77%. (56-64o F) I pitched a 1 quart starter into 5 gallons of Alt (always experimenting) at 1.050. After 2 weeks at 60-62F its only down to 1.024. Still bubbling away at about 4 glubs per minute. I raised it to 70F to see if it would speed up. Still getting 4 glubs per minute. Is this typical of this yeast? Charley (impatient again) in N.Cal Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 98 08:28 PDT From: caburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns) Subject: Queen of Beer - Competition Results The 1998 "Queen of Beer" is Susan Ruud of Harwood, North Dakota. Her "Gravitator II" took the Best of Show honors. Congratulations, Susan! Results of the 1998 Queen of Beer Homebrew Competition are now available on our website, at: http://haze.innercite.com and what a nice time it was. Jack Russell brewery hosted the judging in the Sierra foothills. Its apple season and there were crowds all day at Jack Russell to watch us drink beer, eat barbecue and have a great time on a perfect early fall day. Charley (paying homage to the Queen) in N. Cal Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:15:35 -0400 From: Eric Reimer <eric at etymonic.com> Subject: Hops aroma and flavour problems Hi all, I have been having on going problems with hops flavour and aroma. Specifically keeping it in my beer for longer than a couple of weeks after the beer has begun to be consumed. This problem occurs for all of my beer recipes (both ale and lagers). My current method of making beer includes all grain mashing (by infusion), full wort boils for 75 minutes, immersion chilling, stepped up liquid yeast. My typical beer is an ale (different styles) which is fermented at temperatures recommended by the yeast manufacturer. I typically package my beer in bottles by adding 3/4 cup sugar in bulk to the bottling bucket, bottling, and waiting until their is evidence of carbonation (yeast cake in bottom of bottle). I don't have co2 for purging the bottles.:( As for hops, I have tried pellitized and flaked. The hops always smells very fresh before it is used. (I.e. I'm not using stale hops.) I have tried first wort hopping, and adding hops from 30 minutes to flame-out for flavour and aroma (depending on the recipe). I like a big hop nose and flavour. While the previous, gives me what I want for the first couple of weeks after I begin opening the packaged beer, it quickly disappears until very little remains. Older bottles (say a couple to a few months) have just about zero aroma and very little flavour. Finally some questions: * why is the hops aroma and flavour disappearing? * can an infection cause this? * is the problem related to how I package my beer? I.e. must I keg or use co2 in packaging to keep the hops aroma and flavour longer? Any info on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Eric Reimer Barking Dogs Brewery London, Ontario (Just a couple of hundred kilometres NE of Jeff Renner) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:52:32 -0700 From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: 240V Two incorrect statements have been made about 240V systems in the last 2 days. The neutral in 240V wiring is NOT the ground. Like many 120V circuits, some 240V circuits do not have a ground, but some do (IMO all should). Also, removing the neutral will not always allow the appliances using the circuit to work. For example, my new electric oven requires 4 wires: "+" 120, "-" 120, neutral, ground. It uses the +/- 120 pair to apply 240V to the heating elements and convection fan. It uses one of these and the neutral to apply 120V to the electronic control circuitry, and the ground to ground the chassis for safety. I'm concerned that some things said here might lead someone to attach the neutral wire to exposed parts such as kegs or heating chambers. These parts should always be grounded! (Electrically the ground and the neutral are the same, but they take different paths to the panel. If the neutral is broken, current can travel through the ground rather than through you. Hopefully the current through the ground is high enough to trip the breaker so that you realize something is wrong. Even more hopefully, you have GFCI so that that trips no matter what the current is or where it's going.) I have read here that 240V GFCI breakers exist but are very expensive. I have learned that even 120V GFCI breakers are a ripoff compared to a GFCI plug, which can be used to protect a whole circuit as long as it is wired in the first position and the rest of the circuit wired from it. I paid ~$45 for my 120V GFCI breaker, but a plug costs ~$10. Therefore I wonder if 240V GFCI plugs exist. I imagine they don't given the lack of need for such an animal. BTW, you can't gang 2 120V GFCI units to make 240V. - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at stanford.edu http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:57:04 -0400 From: "Spies, James" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> Subject: co2 All - Scott asks about co2 tanks . . . Try a local fire extinguisher company. I bought a reconditioned 15# cylinder, hydro-tested, filled with co2, and complete with manifold (valve and threaded fitting) for $65. Refilling it (which I have done only once in the 1.5 years that I have owned it) costs about $11. I have carbonated countless kegs and 2-liter PET bottles without a refill. Bigger is definitely better here, since a 5# tank costs about as much to refill as a 15# tank. The only drawback was that the fire extinguisher has a 5-footed base much like a 2-liter PET bottle, so I had to build a rolling stand for it to avoid falls (a good idea anyway). The shop will hydro test it for you (which is the legal/certification hoop you must jump through). Mine included this in the price of admission. It's also a neato red color . . . Hope this helps, Jay Spies Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:01:19 -0600 From: "Bonnell, Doug" <DBonnell at BreeceHill.com> Subject: RE: Subject: 240V GFI >From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) > >I always thought the "neutral" was the ground on a 240V outlet. If you >eliminate the "neutral", the 240V still works. We need an electrician to >clarify this. I'm not an electrician, but the residential breaker panels that I have seen do have neutral tied to the ground bus. However, this doesn't really mean that neutral and ground are "the same thing". Both return current, but one is intended to be the return path (neutral) while the other (ground) is a safety return path and is not used for normal operation. The GFCI measures the current going out the "hot" leads and compares that amount against the current flowing into the neutral. If they vary by more than a few milliamperes, the GFCI trips. Obviously, if the neutral isn't getting all of the current, then some is "leaking" out somewhere. For safety, it had better be "leaking" back down the ground path, not through your body! So, the circuit to your brewing equipment must have 4 wires, two "hot" wires for the 240V source, one neutral and one ground. >I am using plastic containers for my HLT and my kettle, so I haven't worried >about grounding, however, when I switch to metal kegs, I will be very >concerned about grounding. The only thing standing between you and the 240V >is the insulation inside the heating element, and it is under stress of the >very hot heating wire at the core. I would be certain to ground the keg as >well as the metal cart. A good model to use when wiring 240V for brewing equipment is to use the NEC's model of wiring a whirlpool bathtub or hot tub. All exposed metal within 10 feet of the bathtub must be grounded to a common bus bar, preferably at a manual disconnect box where the main 240V line meets the wiring from the appliance ( tub, brewing equip., etc.). It's been about 5 years since I priced a 240V GFCI. Seems to me they were around $200 US at the major home improvement places such as Home Depot. I hope this information helps. Doug Bonnell Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:08:39 -0700 From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: Re: 240V GFI rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) wrote: >>> I always thought the "neutral" was the ground on a 240V outlet. If you eliminate the "neutral", the 240V still works. We need an electrician to clarify this. <<< Sorry Ron, all you get is an EE, so I'll apologize in advance ;-) The neutral is derived directly from the center of the 240 V winding of the distribution transformer (back on the pole). This connection is also grounded at the base of the pole, hence the name "grounded conductor". The grounded conductor, or neutral, is intended to carry full rated circuit current. Three conductors are brought into your home; two hots and a neutral. In your panel, connections between the hot legs gives you 240 V branch circuits; connections between either hot and the neutral gives you your 120 V circuits. Typical wiring designs alternate branch circuits between the hot legs so that the overall 240 V service is essentially balanced. Another intentional grounding connection is made at the panel; here the neutral (ground*ed* conductor) is bonded to the ground (ground*ing* conductor). This ground is the source of the green (or bare) wires that are run along with the circuit conductors to provide an alternate path for fault currents (as opposed to say, through the electricity-harnessing homebrewer) when something goes wrong. Grounding conductors are not intended to carry currents on a regular basis, but it's a good thing to have them there when they're needed. A single-pole (120 V) GFI monitors the net current flowing through its circuit, essentially comparing the current coming into the load on the hot lead to that returning from the load on the neutral. If the net current is not zero (i.e. some fraction of current is flowing on an alternated path (water pipes, refrigerator frame, wet concrete floor, etc., the device interrupts the circuit. This is what you want as under the right conditions a milliamp (0.001 amps) is enough to do a person in at 120 V. Note that a regular old circuit breaker would require > 15 amps before it interrupts the circuit. A 240 V GFI would work on the same principle, only between the hot legs. I have not actually seen one of these, and a check of the Grainger on-line catalog does not show any, but another HBD poster has suggested that they are available. Can anyone else confirm this? Randy in Modesto (eagerly awaiting the *2nd* annual Northern California Homebrewers Festival) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:23:57 -0400 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Outatown, Brewsters: Lim Liddil did some tests, thanks for reporting your experience, as I did mine. I never trust tests on commercial brews as edifying, since we really don't know what has been done to them, even though we might think we do. For example, Lactose is not fermentable but is reducing. I'll be outatown for a couple of weeks and unable to communicate, so I'm not ignoring any e-mail. I catch up when I get back Thanks and... Keep on Brewin', Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 Dave_Burley at Compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:48:00 -0400 From: "John A. MacLaughlin" <jam at clark.net> Subject: Re: Fruit Flies In the Mead Lovers' Digest this past summer there has been a thread on fruit flies which I found particularly helpful because it contains descriptions of inexpensive and effective ways to get rid of them. The Digest archives and FAQ are available for anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu in pub/clubs/homebrew/mead. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:04:15 -0700 From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com> Subject: Olde Brew from Rampant Badger Greeting Malt Headed Ones... I mentioned a while ago that i was shooting for an Arts and Sceinces Competition. I got my Stuff together enough to actually enter, and i will now share my research. I did fairly well, getting nice solid scores (average about 30/50) with good high scores in documentation, which is what i was focusing on. If interested you can view them at http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/as-comp.html I did several brewing entries... Complete list below... A 1503 English Ale Mr. Webbs Small Bragot Honey Chamomile Amber Ale, and its inspiration in period. On making a 1615 Hippocras The use of heraldic titles, mundane, and the SCA. 16th century paned trunk hose. <not webbed yet> Badger *************************************************** Brander Roullett aka Badger Homepage: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger In the SCA: Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven "It had to be a linguistics professor who said that it's man's ability to use language that makes him the dominant species on the planet. That may be. But I think there's one other thing that separates us from animals. We aren't afraid of vacuum cleaners." --Jeff Stilson Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 98 12:38:57 CDT From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: RE: Source for keg parts Harold Dowda asked about a source for keg parts. The best source I have found is South Bay Homebrew Supply (800) 608-BREW. Call if you don't have their catalog or can't find the part you need in their catalog. I have found they have even more stuff than they list. I have no connection with them other than as a customer. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins2wss.dsccc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:02:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: first wort hopping Allen writes: >First Wort Hopping (FWH), but several issues seemed unresolved at that >point. One question that seemed to be left hanging was what kind of >bittering levels (IBU) one would get from FWH. Have any of you who have >been experimenting with FWH gotten a better handle on this recently, so >that we would know how to plug FWH into the various >methods/algorithm/programs for calculating IBU. Should these hops be >considered to been added to boil for some particular time (90', 60' 30', >10')?, or at some fraction (1.5 x, 0.5 x, etc) of their alpha acid >content. I have but one data point to add to this discussion, but I'll post it again. I got (based upon my tasting, although I've pretty good at this) about 20% utilisation from whole first wort hops, steeped during the 45 minute runoff and then boiled 70 minutes. Another way to look at this is that I got about 2/3 or 66% of the IBUs that I had expected from the 70 minute boil. This one data point is pretty weak without other supporting evidence, but if I were do use FWH again, I'd simply multiply my expected utilisation by 2/3. As an aside: Personally, I felt that the FWH added no aroma, and a lot of hop flavour. I typically add hop flavour with additions at T-15 and my gut feeling is that I would rather put the flavour hops in the boil for 15 minutes rather than 70 minutes. Perhaps there might be more polyphenol (tannin) extraction? Maybe? I didn't notice an excessive amount of astringency in that FWH beer and I used quite a bit of hops (3+ ounces of Saaz for 5 gallons), so maybe polyphenol extraction is not a concern. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
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