HOMEBREW Digest #2848 Tue 13 October 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  My First Decoction (Jim Bentson)
  Recent HBD Noise Level (Jim Bentson)
  Brewer's Gold hops ("Jay Krause")
  re Fruit Flies; First Wort Hopping; The C... Debates (Allen W Senear)
  Exterminator Recipe (Charles Burns)
  Stopper borers/Source for keg parts ("H. Dowda")
  Put up or.... (Steve Potter)
  Re: oxidised starters/budget "Carbonators"/HSA and other musings (Jim Graham)
  Re:source for CO2 cylinders (Gary H Nazelrod)
  DC Water (James D Thompson)
  No Subject (Lou.Heavner)
  What beverage goes with Spam? (PAUL W HAAF JR)
  PET storage (PAUL W HAAF JR)
  RE: Pewter ("Timothy Green")
  RE: RIMS turbulence & trapped air (LaBorde, Ronald)
  RE: Subject: 240V GFI (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Re:Re>New Brewer Questions (Gary H Nazelrod)
  Review of "Clone Brews" Book (Jim Bentson)
  Censorhip/Pumpkin Beer (Eric.Fouch)
  lactic vs phosphoric/propane cookers (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
  Drilling stoppers (Badger Roullett)
  KEGS (Badger Roullett)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:56:28 -0400 From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at longisland.com> Subject: My First Decoction Hi All A few weeks ago I did my first decoction ( a single) and was amazed at how easy it was. I attribute my success to two things. First, the incredible amount of information I learned from this forum and from the archives. This allowed me to plan out what I needed to do well ahead of time. The second is that I have brewed enough all-grain's that I have gotten to the point where I can completely predict my required water usage prior to brewing. There is something almost magical in watching the sparge tank run dry within one quart of my target collection volume. This ability to manage your water allows you to set your mash and sparge water up the night before and have it ready the next day. No additional water is needed Some of the things I did that helped are listed below. They probably are most applicable to the 5-6 gallon batch size I brew: 1) For properly crushed malt ( based on my brewpub apprenticeship), I found that approximately 1 quart of water per pound is almost completely absorbed and leaves a very thick mash. 1.1 quarts per pound was what I used and was much more stirrable in the decoction pot. I therefore set my mash water volume to this level , premeasured it the night before and added the necessary gypsum.The remaining water was acidified to a pH of 5.8 for sparging. On brew day I took a small amount of the sparge water ( 4 qts ) and set it to boil in the kitchen so that I had both hot and cold sparge water handy for temp. changes and/or thinning as needed. One interesting point is that the gypsum treated mash water was cloudy and some of the gypsum precipitated out two hours after it was added BUT the next day the water was clear and all the gypsum dissolved!! Overnight pre-treatment of your water might be useful to do for any mash schedule to allow for complete dissolution of the gypsum 2) I mash in my boil kettle and have a separate stainless steel lauter-tun. After many all-grain brews I would still use this set up even if I had a Gott cooler ( ie use the kettle as a mash-tun and the cooler as a lauter-tun) just based on the ability to control mash temperature increases better through heat addition without thinning the mash. I use a small (35K) multi-ring ( three gas valves) burner so scorching is no problem.For the decoction I pulled about 70% of the grain with a strainer and then added sufficient liquid to just fill the voids as per Steve Alexanders discussions. It worked out real well. 3) Have a sufficient number of large pots on hand. As I have moved up in my brewing life I have acquired a 12 qt, 20 qt and a good 38 qt pot. If I were starting my equipment I would get a 16qt and 20 qt cheap pot to complement my brew kettle.I used the 12 qt for the decoction pot and the 20 qt for the mash-tun. The big kettle was used to get all my sparge water heated while the mash proceeded. The decoction could be done on a kitchen stove this way with better control of the heat. I used my propane burner for the decoction. 4) Plan,plan and plan. Decoction is not hard but requires the brewer to keep tighter control on his timing since you actually have two different parts of the mash on different schedules that need to come together at the same time, while still needing to heat water etc. The main thing is to think out on paper exactly how much time each step should take and exactly what pots are in use at any stage. I made a time-line list that I was able to hit right on the head. 5) The decoction added 1 hour to the time of an equivalent single infusion and probably only 20 min to the two-step infusion I usually use.The beer ( a wheat beer) tastes really good. I can see an improvement in flavor. Just watching the change in the decoction mash as you boil it is worth the trouble. The mash goes from the normal mash appearance to an almost liquid appearance as the boil progresses. 6) When mixing the decoction back in to the main mash, do it slowly and stir well, checking the temperature frequently. This is the only part that I almost screwed up as I expected to undershoot my required mixed temp. and dumped the whole decoction into the mash-tun, stirred and hit 80 degC!! A quick dose of cool sparge water mixed in got me back to my intended target and the fermentation went to expected completion so no harm seems to have been done. All in all it was easy, a lot of fun and worth the effort though definitely not for the inexperienced in my opinion. Jim Bentson Centerport NY Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:09:07 -0400 From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at longisland.com> Subject: Recent HBD Noise Level Hi All; A quick comment on the rising noise level from the two "C'' debates. My views are as follows; 1) The Clinitest issue is finally undergoing a long overdue outside,controlled experiment that will benefit all. Al and Dave both seem satisfied. No one is to blame for the delay in this test but ourselves. Most of us sat back and watched the debate build without getting involved in actually performing the necessary tests on our own brews. Any testing by one of the principals in the debate would have probably been viewed suspiciously by the other. Compare our lack of involvement to how many people are actually brewing Alts as a result of the debate about the grain bill of that beer. 2) My reading of last weeks posts tell me that Steve Alexander and many other readers have a legitimate concern about the possibility of the filtering of message content. At the same time I read the steering committees responses and I do not feel that they are trying to do anything sinister here. I think that both sides have now stated their cases and each side should therefore be aware of the concerns of the other faction. As such, I suggest we should be able to drop the issue of censorship until such time as any real proof of an attempt at censorship arises. 3) My last point is that it probably required all the acrimony about Clinitest to actually get the necessary people involved simply because as Louis pointed out, this type of testing work is really time consuming. It is well known that a crisis is often needed to move personal relationships out of a "stuck" pattern of behavior. Let us consider all that has passed to be our own "crisis" and move on to new brewing ideas and recipes. Jim Bentson Centerport NY Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 19:10:14 -0500 From: "Jay Krause" <krause at galis.com> Subject: Brewer's Gold hops Hi all, A simple question I hope. I am having trouble finding Brewer's Gold hops in any form. What would be a good substitute for this variety? Also has anyone purchased anything from "Southern Stainless"? They have a 10 gallon brew kettle for only $120. TIA Jay Krause Keeper of Jay's Beer Label of the Week http://members.tripod.com/~beerlable This week's label is "Eichbaum" Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:46:56 -0700 From: Allen W Senear <senear at seanet.com> Subject: re Fruit Flies; First Wort Hopping; The C... Debates FRUIT FLIES: Mark A Bayer asked whether fruit flies in his starter would lead to a gross infection. Mike Maceyka replied "Inocclulated it with bacteria: absolutely. Contaminated it, i.e. will this ruin my beer: yes, in all probability." I did this experiment inadvertently back at the end of August (just about the time I was applying for a position in a lab studying Drosophila developmental genetics). I had built up a starter in several steps, allowed it to go dormant for about three days, then poured off most of the old beer and added new wort before starting my brew day. I discovered the flies in my starter many hours later as I was about to pitch my yeast (Wyeast 1968, London ESB) into my first all-grain version of my Boulder Drop Bitter. At this point (it was late enough in the evening that I couldn't run out to any of the local HB shop for some dry yeast) I didn't really have any other option than to pitch the starter (minus the two flies) and hope for the best. A quick taste of the starter didn't turn up anything too disastrous. Yesterday I opened the first bottle and I was very happy with the product (thanks to Marc Battreal, Regan Pallandi and Barry Ward for their responses a few months ago to an HBD inquiry of mine that helped in formulating the recipe.) Was the starter contaminated? I am sure it was, to some extent. Did it matter in this case? Probably not appreciably, unless my beer was infected some unidentified bacteria or wild yeast that added a special something extra so that I will never be able to repeat this success. Perhaps I was OK because I had already built up enough yeast in the starter that the infecting microbes couldn't compete efficiently, or perhaps they got in late enough that high ethanol levels inhibited their growth. Would I intentionally infect my beer with fruit flies? No, and I wish the flies would realize it is no longer summer in Seattle and depart from my kitchen / brewery. Maybe this incident will teach me to have a couple of packets of dry yeast on hand for the next time I have a starter problem (but that was several weeks ago and I haven't done anything yet.) I believe that this experience once again reiterates one of the basic rules of brewing: Although there are many things, especially lapses in sanition, that can ruin your beer, few of them will do so every time; until you have irrefutable experimental evidence (ie tasting) that your beer is definitely bad, don't despair or dump, it may well be fine, or at least good enough for the uninvited house guests who have printed up stationary with your address and phone number on it. I recently had one of my early batches finally transform itself after five months in the bottle from something I could drink but with little enthusiasm into a pretty good beer (unfortunately I drank over half the batch while it was still only in the tolerable stage.) By the way since Marc Bayer's tag said "Boeing", I wonder if he is also a Seattlite; did we perhaps share the same fruit flies? FIRST WORT HOPPING: Awhile back there was a fair amount of discussion of First Wort Hopping (FWH), but several issues seemed unresolved at that point. One question that seemed to be left hanging was what kind of bittering levels (IBU) one would get from FWH. Have any of you who have been experimenting with FWH gotten a better handle on this recently, so that we would know how to plug FWH into the various methods/algorithm/programs for calculating IBU. Should these hops be considered to been added to boil for some particular time (90', 60' 30', 10')?, or at some fraction (1.5 x, 0.5 x, etc) of their alpha acid content. Now that I am doing all-grain brewing I am going to try FWH for an IPA I'm brewing at the end of the week. I'm not so concerned about this case, since I know I will have lots of IBU, plus or minus a little. But for other beers/styles we need to hit a fairly tight target of IBU, so I would like to know for future efforts. THE C... DEBATES: I abhor censorship - I once stuck my neck out (a little) by appearing on local TV denouncing the fatwah against Salman Rushdie (I hope all the fundamentalist Moslems who read HBD will forgive me). But I see the arrangement Louis Bonham made with Al K and Dave Burley as an entirely different beast than censorship. Their Clinitest debate had narrowed down to a question about a single fact that is easily amenable to experimental investigation. (I had been working on formulating the appropriate experiments in my head, but unfortunately don't currently have available to me the necessary facilities to do the experiments properly.) As a scientist I see these types of debates occur all of the time. After a limited run of debate the response of the community is generally along the lines of "enough already, shut up, and do the damned experiment, then you can talk more." I will continue to enjoy Al and Dave's comments on other subjects, look forward to seeing the results of Louis's experiment (and those of others?), and wouldn't be surprised to see the debate continue, in a slightly different form, after we are all a little wiser. Free discussion is generally great, but in some circumstances (and I think this is one) only experimental data can real push our knowledge forward. Allen Senear Big Water Brewing Seattle Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 98 05:07 PDT From: caburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: Exterminator Recipe Per a number of requests, here's the Exterminator IPA and Mild recipe (parti-gyle): 18.5 lbs Halcyon Pale Ale 3 lb Hugh Baird Pale Crystal 1 lb Caramalt (45L) .75 lb Malted Wheat .5 oz Chinook (whole) 12.5%AA First Wort Hopped 1.0 oz Columbus (whole) 15%AA 60 min 1.0 oz Centennial (whole) 11%AA 15 min .5 oz Chinook (whole) 12.5%AA Knockout - 10 minute hot steep 6.5 gallons hard water at 168F = 154F mash for 60 min Sparge with 11 gallons total liqor. Draw 7.5 gallons preboil for IPA - start the kettle. Mash 1 lb (additional) pale ale with 1 lb chocolate at 148F during IPA sparge. Mix chocolate/pale into mashtun. Continue sparge into the second kettle for the mild. Mild hopping .75 oz whole EKG 60 min, .25 oz EKG 10 min (whole hops). Next time take only 6.0 gallons for ipa and dilute to preboil volume. Or just use less malt. IPA fermented with 12 oz slurry of Wyeast 1056 at 63F for 2 weeks. Dry hopped with 1 oz Cascade for 10 days (next time do full 2 weeks dry hop, or put cascade into keg). Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:35:41 -0400 From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at scsn.net> Subject: Stopper borers/Source for keg parts The stopper borers made of tubing are exactly what we have used in the lab for years. For a home made one, from copper tube, it may be helpful to use the stiffer grades of copper stick, if you can find it in your needed size. The soft tubing stuff we use for chillers etc may bend in use (YRMV). Also, the handle problem can be solves with a copper 'T' and some more tubing to make a 'T' shaped implement with a good hand hold. You can use one of these (no handle) drills with an old fashioned manual drill which can be mounted for heavy or frequent use. I am having trouble finding parts for my keg collection. Specifically the tank connectors and parts (poppets, springs) for the tank side of the system. Also, does any one have a source for the pressure relief valves on the keg tops? Thanks. Harold Dowda Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:02:30 -0500 From: Steve Potter <spotter at meriter.com> Subject: Put up or.... Dear Collective, I find very interesting that the names of the vast majority of those who feel the need to spring to the defense of either an uncensored HBD or the decision of the committee do not appear on the donor's page. Perhaps it is time to consider starting to help pay the freight for the resource we all hold so dear. For those of you who are interested, checks should be made out to Pat Babcock and sent to: HBD Server Fund PO Box 1966 Rolla, MO 65407 I know another contribution is on my list of things to do. Steve Potter Madison, WI Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:29:11 -0500 From: Jim Graham <jim at n5ial.gnt.com> Subject: Re: oxidised starters/budget "Carbonators"/HSA and other musings In HBD #2846, From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> writes: > Jim writes: > > [my description of making cheap, homebrew carbonator-style caps] > A question for you: have you stored beer in these for more than a week > or two? Does the rubber of the valve stem (which is probably butyl, > certainly not food grade and rather icky-smelling) impart any aroma > or flavour to the beer? What if you store it on its side (so the beer > actually touches the rubber)? Can this extract any unpleasant or > perhaps even dangerous compounds from the rubber? Chemists? I have stored beer for long terms in 2L PET bottles (trying to compare various specialty grains and their contribution to, in this case, a pale ale) back when I could only work with one batch at a time). However, as I recall, I stored the beer with the normal PET bottle cap. Then again, I did store it pressurized, and the only way I'd be able to do that is to leave the tire-valve carbonator cap on, so..... Anyways, as to the flavor after a month or so of storage, on its side, pressurized with CO2 (set at 30 PSI), with the homebrew carb. cap..... It tasted just like it did out of the keg. No hint of any problems from the rubber, no hint of oxidation (but this changes once you open the bottle, obviously---drink it fast, or toss it!). Oh, one other thing. Every now and then, I like to make up some carbonated water (I like to take that to work) in a 2L PET bottle. One time, I made some up and forgot about it for a couple of weeks. It still tasted fine. I normally use these for short-term (less than 24 hours...usually less than 12 hours) storage, btw, but have definitely gone at least < 1 week with no problems. Oh well, time to eat breakfast and get this holiday brew day rolling (brewing ESB, and if my old, tired 1056 gets going, also brewing my red ale...if not, perhaps a Bavarian lager...that yeast is very happy). Later, --jim - -- 73 DE N5IAL (/4) Ft. Walton Beach, FL graham at tybj2.eglin.af.mil || jim at n5ial.gnt.net MiSTie #49997 === Do not look into waveguide with remaining eye === Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:59:09 -0400 From: Gary_H_Nazelrod at tst.tracor.com (Gary H Nazelrod) Subject: Re:source for CO2 cylinders In HBD 8547 Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> asks: >I'm probably going to buy myself a keg setup for X-mas, and I was >wondering if there was a good source for CO2 cylinders and gauges. >I'm wondering about both $$ and safety issues (certification, etc.). I >can't imagine that there isn't a commercial outfit that specializes in >gas that could provide a new setup with all the safety checks for a >reasonable price. Anyone been down this road? I did not shop around for best price, but I easily found a reliable company. In the Washington DC area there is Roberts Oxygen (no affiliation). I have seen their trucks on the streets for years. They are a big supplier of gas products. They are listed in the yellow pages under "Carbonic Gas" and also under "Oxygen". When I went into the store and said I wanted a CO2 tank; the guy there immediately asked if I wanted it for homebrew. They sold me a full 5 lb. tank and a dual gage. I think the price was ~ $150. (~3 years ago) When My tank is empty, I give them $18 and my tank and they give me a full tank. I never have to worry about getting my tank recertified. The only use I see for the high pressure gage is to let you know when you are out of liquid and only have gas left (almost empty). Sometime after I bought my tank and gage I looked at the price at a HB shop, the prices were similar. Gary Nazelrod Silver Spring MD Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:17:34 -0400 From: brjamesop at juno.com (James D Thompson) Subject: DC Water I just resubscribed to HBD after a few year's absence. Some things are the same and make me feel at home (arf, controversies about commercialism and the nature of HBD) and some things different (even more technical than before, it seems - many of the entries I haven't the foggiest what the issue is!). Anyway, glad to see HBD is alive and well. My brewing buddy and I are living in Washington, DC for a few months, but before heading back out to California we'd like to get a couple more beers brewed. We're experienced, but not especially sophisticated brewers, using malt syrup extract base with some specialty grains, you know... A simple question for DC homebrewers: water quality? Does the water here need treatment, or is it pretty hard already? If Yes, needs treatment, what works best for the unsophisticate? You may reply in private if you like. Thanks! Br. James Thompson, O.P. Dominican House of Studies Washington, DC brjamesop at juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:23:27 -0500 From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com Subject: No Subject From: "Penn, John" <PennJE1 at SPACEMSG.JHUAPL.edu> {snip} 4) Wet shirt cooling.. Cooling with a wet T-shirt can shave 5-10F off the fermentation temperature and you can add a fan blowing on the shirt to increase cooling. Do you have a wet bulb/dry bulb thermometer to determine what the temperature difference is in your area? The cooling effect depends on humidity. If you live in a low humidity area this may not work for you. You gave the impression that it did not work at all but what were your circumstances and how much of an effect were you expecting vs. what you got? {snip} OOPS! I'm sure you meant that this will not work well in high humidity. The effect is heat removal by evaporation. The driving force is humidity or moisture concentration in the air. Less moisture in the ambient air means more water can evaporate from the T-shirt, towel, or whatever. At 100% relative humidity or the dew point temperature, no moisture will evaporate and no cooling will occur. So don't try this in a shower. ;) The fan helps by dispersing the air around the fermenter where local moisture concentration might otherwise build up. Cheers! Lou - Austin, TX Look at Ricky geaux!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:28:50 -0400 From: haafbrau1 at juno.com (PAUL W HAAF JR) Subject: What beverage goes with Spam? Has anyone else recently been getting hit with more spam than usual? I'm not on the web, and most of my mail is from HBD, MLD, and CLD, plus a few family and friends. Most of this unpalatable meat is from YAHOO origins. Any suggestions? Paul Haaf haafbrau1atjunodotcom ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:15:37 -0400 From: haafbrau1 at juno.com (PAUL W HAAF JR) Subject: PET storage Well, I think I set a record for PET beer storage. I have two bottles left of a summer honey wheat ale I brewed in June. The first is a 2L bottle. I cracked it last week, and the beer tasted the same as in July. I used glass and PET. Currently, the half filled bottle has a Carbonator on it. I'll taste test for scientific purposes real soon. I also made a spiced ale back in Jan or Feb that I opened recently. It was just as over spiced as the first bottle. I also did not notice any other flavor degradations in either beer. Hope this info helps. On another note, early this summer I brewed a honey wheat ale that I flavored with orange extract. At first, the orange was overpowering. This past weekend, one of the few remaining bottles was opened and consumed at a party. This was a 22 oz glass bottle. Very little drinking was done at this party (my 2 yr old's b-day), and the pizza had not yet arrived, so taste buds were not being sacrificed in large numbers. The beer was tasted by four people and was well received, but the orange was almost impercectable. The moral of this story is that time can heal many but not all heavy handed batches. Just my two cents plain with a beer chaser. Hoppy Trails Paul Haaf haafbrau1atjunodotcom ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:32:53 -0400 From: "Timothy Green" <TimGreen at ix.netcom.com> Subject: RE: Pewter Currently, the only new pewter that is allowed to be sold in the US is what is called lead-free pewter. What the actual composition of the alloy is I don't know It looks somewhat like traditional pewter except that the metal is a slightly lighter color. Tim Green Mead is great... Beer is good... (But beer is much faster) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:52:55 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: RIMS turbulence & trapped air From: AKGOURMET at aol.com >Does >the entire loop need to be completely purged of air? Will it purge by itself? It is a good idea to purge all air from the loop. When I start to brew, I run heated liquor into the mash tun, then turn on the pump and purge all air out of the loop. The loop remains free of air if there is no leak anywhere in the system. The grains are stirred in at this time, and when I begin the circulation, the loop is already purged of air. >If there is a small amount of air and turbulence around the T-fittings or the >ball valves, what effect will that have on the wort? Seems like necking down >would be ok, but what about going from 3/8" into 1/2" pipe? I guess it would >depend on flow rate and the amount of backpressure. What has been the >experience of other RIMS users? With just liquor, the initial pumping and circulation will move so rapidly that any air will be flushed out. If all the air is gone, it doesn't seem to be a problem with necking down, but do be careful to allow enough passage for any stray grains that may go whizzing by. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:00:46 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Subject: 240V GFI From: "Doug Otto" <dotto at calweb.com> >What concerns me is the lack of a ground leg on your standard 240V >outlet here in the US. Because of the liquids involved and the amount of >metal hardware, I'd like to run GFI on the circuit but have never seen such >an animal for 240V. I know that for all intents the neutral leg is the same >as ground, but is that good enough and are there GFI breakers available for >240V? I always thought the "neutral" was the ground on a 240V outlet. If you eliminate the "neutral", the 240V still works. We need an electrician to clarify this. I am using plastic containers for my HLT and my kettle, so I haven't worried about grounding, however, when I switch to metal kegs, I will be very concerned about grounding. The only thing standing between you and the 240V is the insulation inside the heating element, and it is under stress of the very hot heating wire at the core. I would be certain to ground the keg as well as the metal cart. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:16:18 -0400 From: Gary_H_Nazelrod at tst.tracor.com (Gary H Nazelrod) Subject: Re:Re>New Brewer Questions In HBD 2846 "Penn, John" <PennJE1 at SPACEMSG.JHUAPL.edu> does a good job of answering a Matt's new brewer questions. However I noticed 1 error. Does that mean we only got $0.0171 instead of the intended $0.02? :-) >4) Wet shirt cooling.. Cooling with a wet T-shirt can shave 5-10F off >the fermentation temperature and you can add a fan blowing on the shirt >to increase cooling. Do you have a wet bulb/dry bulb thermometer to >determine what the temperature difference is in your area? The cooling >effect depends on humidity. If you live in a low humidity area this may >not work for you. You gave the impression that it did not work at all >but what were your circumstances and how much of an effect were you >expecting vs. what you got? This method works better in low humidity than it does in high humidity. In low humidity there is greater evaporation. The evaporation is what is removing the heat. The fan helps because it removes humid air near the wet T-shirt and replaces it with less humid air from the surrounding area. This new lower humidity air near the T-shirt can now increase the evaporation rate back to what it was before the evaporation increased the local humidity. Gary Nazelrod Silver Spring MD PS John's answer was mostly right, so I guess we got more like $0.0189 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:42:11 -0400 From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at longisland.com> Subject: Review of "Clone Brews" Book Someone requested a review of " Clone Brews" by Tess & Mark Szamatulski- published by Storey Books Vermont - 1998 (ISBN 1-58017-077-3). $14.95 in paperback I purchased this book last week and have read most of the material in it. I have NOT used any of the recipes as of yet but plan to try some shortly. Here are my first impressions: "Clone Brews" was written by Tess & Mark Szamatulski, the owners of the "Maltose Express" homebrew supply shop in Monroe Connecticut. It is primarily a source for recipes which claim to replicate commercial beers. The book contains 150 recipes laid out in a very eye-pleasing format. One unique feature of the book is that each recipe has three different versions; a) Extract + special grains recipe, b) "Mini-Mash recipe and c) "All-Grain" recipe, all on the same page. The recipes are given in full for the extract version with alterations to the extract recipe for the other two mash methods given in an "Alternate Methods" sidebar. One very rare and nice touch, for each beer there is a suggested serving temperature and style of serving glass listed as part of the recipe. These recipes represent beer from all over the world. They include beers from Africa (9), Asia (10), Australia and New Zealand (6), the Caribbean (4), Central America (4), Europe (86), the Middle East (4), North America & Mexico (25) and South America (2). All in all, 50 different countries or islands are represented and the book is worth its price just for the information given on so many beers. The recipes are presented in order of their region and country of origin. For those interested in a particular style there is a very strange "Beer Style" cross-reference in the back. As an example of what I mean by strange, Red Hook ESB and Harpoon IPA and are listed under the "Style" headed "American Ale" but Anchor Steam is dubbed "Esoteric". Thus the "Style" in the author's list has more to do with the country of origin than the actual style. This in spite of the fact that the AHA style guidelines are given as an appendix in the book. The book starts with some very short sections of suggestions concerning the process of making the beers and methods for calculations of color, bitterness, grain bills , yeasts and hop selection etc. The section on water treatment is poor. The authors state that they include water treatment notes in the recipes "where needed", however the only treatment I found in glancing through the recipes is to use Burton salts in some English Ales. The authors comments in the second paragraph in this section encourage the brewer to use their water "as is" if it tastes good. Following this logic,a novice brewer with hard water might attempt to brew a Pilsner Urquell with no water treatment. This needs some form of correction in later editions. Following these introductory sections, the assumptions used in formulating the recipes are nicely grouped on a single page just before the recipes start. The recipes themselves are the core of this book. Each recipe is for 5 gallons and takes up exactly one page. A recipe starts with a header box giving taste impressions of the target beer. This is followed by the target original and final gravities, the bitterness in IBU's, the color (as a SRM number) and the percent alcohol by volume for the beer for the homebrewed version (not the commercial version). The recipes themselves follow, laid out in two colors, one for the process steps and one for the ingredients. Rather than grouping the ingredients all in one place, the authors chose to intersperse the procedural steps and the ingredients. Depending on your own personal preference you may like or dislike the fact that the ingredients appear in order of usage rather than being grouped separately as grain, hops etc. As for ingredients, each recipe suggests a very particular brand of extract or type of grain to be used. A 70% mash efficiency is assumed in the all-grain grain bill. Unfortunately there are no water profiles or suggested treatment schedules for most of the beers given in this book. The hop schedule is presented for pellet hops in HBU's with the assumed alpha acid percentage given for the quoted weights. Some suggested hops, such as Northdown may be difficult to find. A hop substitution table is included as an appendix for those instances. There are two suggested yeasts for each beer with a first and second choice given. Only Wyeast yeasts are recommended.There is no yeast equivalence chart or recommendations for yeasts from other suppliers. I found the actual instructions for brewing these beers clearly written and generally well presented. These recipes do not claim to be duplicates of those of the parent brewery but are a set of ingredients and procedures meant to match the taste and color of the targeted beer. As stated previously, the instructions are written out for the extract version with suggested alterations for partial-mash and all-grain in a side-bar box. Each suggested yeast is given a suggested fermentation temperature range. I was surprised that the lager recipes often do not have any lagering temperature schedule or instructions [One unusual note: In many of the recipes using Wyeast 2308 Munich lager yeast, the authors recommend fermenting at a low temperature in the beginning of fermentation and then raising the temperature ( sometimes above Wyeast's suggested range) for the remainder of fermentation.]. Bottling is the only packaging option discussed in the book. Each beer is given priming instructions for bottling . The priming ingredients are spelled out as to both brand and color when dry extract powder is called for. No suggestions are given concerning bottle conditioning temperatures or duration. I have some fairly strong reservations about the all-grain recipes. Only two temperature programs are used in the entire book, either a 150 deg F (65.5 deg C) single infusion (the dominant program) or a two step infusion with the first step using a 122 deg F (50 deg C) protein rest for 30 minutes, followed by a 150 deg F rest. Most of the recipes which call for the protein rest are for light lagers with rice and/or corn, there are other recipes with no such adjuncts that still use this rest which is currently under a lot of discussion. Since the authors are dealing with 150 different beers here, I get a distinct feeling that these all-grain recipes might have been formulated as an after-thought. To my thinking, the uniformity of the final saccharification rest temperature at 150 deg F for 150 different beers is somewhat unexpected. The boiling hops in the all-grain recipes uniformly get a 90 minute boil which is also somewhat "non-standard" practice. With the exception of the concerns raised, on an overall basis I think that this book would be a very useful addition to a brewers library of recipes. I feel it would be most useful to the extract brewer interested in reproducing a commercial beer. It would be somewhat useful to an experienced all-grain brewer (who would know to alter the mashing schedules given and to do proper water treatment). The book is inexpensive and gives a brewer a potential introduction into many interesting and varied beers from around the world. I would buy it again if my present copy got lost. Jim Bentson Centerport NY Return to table of contents
Date: 12 Oct 1998 13:56:05 -0400 From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com Subject: Censorhip/Pumpkin Beer HBD- And especially Scott Murman- "-SM- P.S. I have a list of topics and posters that I feel are a not sufficiently contributing to the S/N ratio. Who do I send it to for consideration? " I'm sorry, and please take me off your list! About Censorship- "Lighten up, Francis!" About Pumpkin beer- I made my third annual Punkinhead Ale Saturday: I took a 2 gallon pumpkin, inverted it, and cut out the bottom (in my experience, the bottom is not as structurally sound as the top). I cleaned out the guts and seeds, installed a bottom (top) drain and a metal screen. I filled it up with near boiling water, put the bottom back on (I had the pumpkin sitting upside down in a 5 gallon bucket for stability) and let it steep for about an hour. I did this to 1)heat up the pumpkin mash tun, and 2)cook the starches in the wall of the pumpkin. In the mean time, I cleaned two pie pumpkins and cut them into 1" thick rings, and baked them at 350 F for one hour. I drained the pumpkin water into a boil pot, heated the water back up to mash temp, and put it back into the pumpkin. To this I added the cooked pumpkin (15 oz -along with the rind on the rings- what the hell?) and the grain: 6# pale ale malt, 1# dark crystal. I mashed at 140 for 30 minutes, decocted to 150 for 45 minutes. The sparge started to get a little sticky towards the end, but I got 6 gallons that I boiled down to 5 gallons at 1.045. I bittered with ~1oz of green hops off the vine- ~.25oz NB, .75oz Cascade. At 15 minutes I added 4 tsp cinnamon, 2 tsp clove, 2 tsp ginger, 2 tsp nutmeg, and threw 1 Tbs vanilla extract in the fermenter. I upped the spices from the previous batch, and added about twice the amount of crystal, and extra pumpkin. So far, the pumpkin smell coming out of the fermenter is far more intense than previous batches. I added more crystal for more sweetness, which should bring out the pumpkin flavor. I now offer this as the precursor to the annual pumpkin beer threads to the HBD as a replacement bandwidth filler for the cavernous, gaping "dead air" left from the unscrupulous McCarthyistic censorship of the "Clinitest Death Match". Don't make me get my banned assault rifle that they tell me I can't hunt deer with, and come down there!* Topics: Will more pumpkin give more "pumpkin flavor?" Will more residual sweetness enhance the pumpkin flavor? Am I the only one who makes beer INSIDE pumpkins? Might I have extracted undesirables by including the pumpkin rind? Should I have used "Second Use FWH's" (TM)? Eric (Tryin' to sneak one by SM) Fouch Bent Dick YoctoBrewery Kentwood, MI *This was a joke. I do not own a banned assault rifle- but only 'cause I can't afford one. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:57:05 -0400 From: "Bayer, Mark A (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil> Subject: lactic vs phosphoric/propane cookers collective homebrew conscience: al k wrote: >>Lactic acid is preferable to phosphoric <snip> and scott responded: > This is the first time I've heard this. In fact, I'm sure I've read to the contrary, although I can't recall >where at the moment.<snip> (pause for dredging of pickled neurons.....) i believe i read in brewing techniques, possibly in a 'troubleshooter' column, where dave miller stated he had moved away from lactic and started using phosphoric because lactic acid is "unstable" at high temperatures. does anybody have any ideas on what dave is talking about, and what the effect is during mashing or wort boiling? now for some cooker questions (i searched the archives briefly for this, but no dice): i've got a 170kbtu king kooker and just used it saturday for the first time, with a 15 gallon ss pot. what is the best setting for the adjustable air intake upstream of the burner ring? i realize this controls the mixture of propane-to-air, but what is the most efficient way to set it so i don't waste propane? my natural inclination is to open it all the way up and run as lean as i can. i noticed saturday that i could set it just about anywhere from fully open to nearly closed, for a given gas flow setting, and my boil vigor didn't vary much (maybe i didn't conduct the experiment patiently enough). also, how many 5 gallon batches should i expect to get from one of the common size refillable tanks of propane? i only use it for boiling, not mashing or heating sparge water. thanks for all the advice on drilling rubber stoppers. if i can just figure out a way to incorporate clinitest into the procedure.... brew hard, mark bayer Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:00:36 -0700 From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com> Subject: Drilling stoppers From: bob_poirier at adc.com Subject: Re: Drilled Stoppers > The only problem I had was when I wasn't paying attention and bored a crooked hole that came out on the side of the stopper, near the bottom - you've got to keep in mind that the stopper is going to get deformed (squished) while you're boring through it! Actually, Pete Calinski makes a good point about possibly "freezing" the stopper before you try to drill/bore through it. if your drilling holes, why not drill a hole large enough to hold your stopper, and shove hte stopper in it, and then shove the sharpend tubing through it. just a thought. this would hold the stopper steady, and reduce the risk of you smashing your fingers, cutting your fingers, or getting off center. ********************************************* Brander Roullett aka Badger (2300 miles West of Jeff, Seattle, WA) Brewing Page: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html Badgers Brewing Bookstore: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/brewbook.html In the SCA: Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven, Innkeeper of the Cat and Cup Inn Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:12:08 -0700 From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com> Subject: KEGS Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:26:20 -0400 From: Alan Monaghan <AlanM at gardnerweb.com> Subject: Kegs I was looking for a site/resource for the kegs and tools needed to maintain the kegs that the big boys use (the one with the large ball in the center). I would like to be able to put our beer into these for others who don't have the soda pop kegging system most home brewers seem to use. Try RCB, they usually have them used. (right now they have them for 2 1/2 gallon ones at 25$, and 15.5 gallon ones at 62.50$.) (no association) Also Rapids sells them (i think?) new. Good luck! Websites.. RCB: http://www.rcbequip.com Rapids: http://www.4rapids1.com ********************************************* Brander Roullett aka Badger (2300 miles West of Jeff, Seattle, WA) Brewing Page: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html Badgers Brewing Bookstore: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/brewbook.html In the SCA: Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven, Innkeeper of the Cat and Cup Inn Return to table of contents
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